FedEx lost package of 35 sps corals being shipped to me

[neverwouldof]

It was overnighted monday to arrive by 10:30am today but never showed. They found it in Tennessee and said it will be here tomorrow morning so it will have been full 48 hours in bags. What do you think will be condition tomorrow ?

Just wondering if anyone has had any similar experience with a good out come

Keith

[ct_vol]

A lot will depend upon temperature consistency... I've had SPS do fine at 48 hours and then I've had them ship like crap in less than 12... SPS don't like excessive heat.

[bobkill]

Hug!!!! That's terrible -

[galleon]

Is it POSSIBLE that some, or even most, are perfectly fine? Yes. Without more details on how they were packed and what conditions they spent their expected layover in, we would just be speculating on how likely that possibility is.

[galleon]

Also, wild/mariculture or aquacultured?

[M88A2]

i had a package that was supposed to be at my door by 10:30 and the guy decided to not deliver it to me cause there were more packages down some other street. lost 3 mini colonies...i hate the mail service no matter what it is. GL with your corals, hope they do better than mine did.

[dvanacker]

IMO not much luck with 48hrs.

[neverwouldof]

Not sure, bought them off here from another reefer who seems to know his stuff. But it's summer and god only know where the box was sitting. I'll find out in the morning... Worse thing is taking time away from work. The money I could have made from today and tomorrow could have bought me 100 frags locally. This will be my last purchase from a non local source, too much inconvenience !!

Is it POSSIBLE that some, or even most, are perfectly fine? Yes. Without more details on how they were packed and what conditions they spent their expected layover in, we would just be speculating on how likely that possibility is.

[galleon]

Unless the seller has access to pure O2 for bagging, I would not even get a sliver of hope up.

[PL-Reef]

That's blows man!! Sorry. After a full 48 hours I'd guess not much good will come of it. Was the package insured?

[tmantaylor18]

should have had him ship in 35 separate boxes.
























jk, hope the stuff makes it

[Ian]

Unless the seller has access to pure O2 for bagging, I would not even get a sliver of hope up.

Corals take up very little oxygen, it wouldn't be a problem in this case. Temp is pretty much the only thing to worry about in this.

That's blows man!! Sorry. After a full 48 hours I'd guess not much good will come of it. Was the package insured?

You can't insure live goods with any of the shipping companies.

To the OP, hopefully you bought from someone that offers a live arrival guarantee. If so, it should be the seller that's worried. You should be in the clear...

[dvanacker]

Corals take up very little oxygen, it wouldn't be a problem in this case. Temp is pretty much the only thing to worry about in this.



You can't insure live goods with any of the shipping companies.

To the OP, hopefully you bought from someone that offers a live arrival guarantee. If so, it should be the seller that's worried. You should be in the clear...

I disagree. Maybe its not oxygen but when I get a frag shipped 24hrs and the temperature is fine even than the water has a slight rancid smell. After 48hrs under most peoples shipping practices and even with good temps this box is DOA, IMO.

I hope the OP can get some money back and maybe a few survivors though...

[LoJack]

I would give it hope depending on this company's shipping practices.

I just received an order that was over 50 hours door to door. Packed with pure oxygen and heat/cool packs depending on weather.

Purple tang, Copperband Butterfly, Potters Angel, 2 Scooter Blennies and 4 SPS Frags. I had zero casualties on this order. Again ... this has more to do with the quality of the shippers practices. I have hope for you ... best of luck.

[kaserpick]

I've had a box lost in transit as well. It wasn't pretty, but you never know.

I've started having corals dropped off at a FedEx location. They arrive sooner in the morning since I'm eliminating the delivery person (that delivers to my door). This way it's far less likely to get my address wrong. I think that's a good tip for those buying online.

I know that wouldn't have helped you, Neverwouldof, but it's good to know for the future. In the past, I've had it take another 9 hours to deliver, simply because someone copied my address incorrectly. That happened a few times, then I started having them dropped off at FedEx.

[neverwouldof]

Well..... I just got them about 15 min ago. Smelled like low tide before i even opened the box and there wasn't any leaks. They were all in tiny baggies with about a shot glass of water. No styrofoam box, just put in a small cardboard box with a couple dozen peanuts. So even if I would have received them yesterday they would have been in bad shape. 75% of them you couldn't even see in the bags because the water was so brown and cloudy. All had tissue floating in bags! Good stuff

[SeedlessOne]

Who did you order these from?

Sorry to hear about your luck. Hopefully you can get them replaced!!! But judging on packing seems like an amateur sent them out.

[neverwouldof]

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1544/sn9o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/sn9o.jpg/)

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1204/cujf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/cujf.jpg/)

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7519/8uwk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/8uwk.jpg/)

[neverwouldof]

Ya, I prefer to get money back. I don't think the outcome of next time would be much better.

Who did you order these from?

Sorry to hear about your luck. Hopefully you can get them replaced!!! But judging on packing seems like an amateur sent them out.

[LoJack]

Yup, those are some incredibly poorly packed pieces.

When I get my frags that make it 50 hours ... the plug is mounted in a small square of styrofoam, and the coral floats upside down. This prevents the tissue from touching the side of the bag or the bottom.

They are also packed in fish sized bags for the most part, with a decent amount of water and a good amount of oxygen.

I'm sorry for your loss ... 35 SPS frags couldn't have been a cheap order either.

[sahin]

Sorry dude. A large foam box and decent water volume and some may have survived. Too bad. Hope the seller sorts something out for you.

[FF337]

Bad news. Any survive?

[galleon]

OK, addressing the decent amount of water and corals using little O2 points:

Using an Acropora respiration rate of 0.2 gO2 m^-2 hr^-1 (derived from A. palmata), and an O2 solubility of 6.6 mg/L at 25C and 35 psu salinity in water, if we place a 5 cm x 5 cm piece of coral in 1 L of oxygen saturated seawater, after only 13 hours, less than 2% of the original mass of O2 in the water will remain! That's 100 millionths of a gram of O2. In an entire liter! Proper gas headspace and sufficient oxygenation of that headspace is a MAJOR factor!

That said, these pictures make me ill. Those corals are incredibly poorly packed and probably looked about the same yesterday.

[shred5]

A lot will depend upon temperature consistency... I've had SPS do fine at 48 hours and then I've had them ship like crap in less than 12... SPS don't like excessive heat.

I agree 100 percent.

[saltymix]

I've never ordered coral online and now im really scared to try it. I feel your pain, i ordered a new AI Hydra (from a well known company) that was supposed to arrive yesterday. When I opened the box everything else I ordered was there and no light. It said it was on the packing slip but someone jacked it or they never packed it. Now I have a $400 battle on my hands, they better send a new one! I hope you get your money back.

[FF337]

OK, addressing the decent amount of water and corals using little O2 points:

Using an Acropora respiration rate of 0.2 gO2 m^-2 hr^-1 (derived from A. palmata), and an O2 solubility of 6.6 mg/L at 25C and 35 psu salinity in water, if we place a 5 cm x 5 cm piece of coral in 1 L of oxygen saturated seawater, after only 13 hours, less than 2% of the original mass of O2 in the water will remain! That's 100 millionths of a gram of O2. In an entire liter! Proper gas headspace and sufficient oxygenation of that headspace is a MAJOR factor!

That said, these pictures make me ill. Those corals are incredibly poorly packed and probably looked about the same yesterday.

Just plain wow. Bravo! This is great.

[ptreef]

Man that is bad packaging and no styro....

Refund!

[bloodstripe23]

dang, that blows. I would file a claim regardless sinc eyou paid overnight.

[saltymix]

I would return to sender and let it stink up the van the whole way there,lol

[footballdude2k3]

Sorry to hear about that, this is why I will only order from Live Aquaria, had a bad experience myself with a small place

[scar79]

Bummer. That's how I pack frags when I'm hand delivering them within a few hours! I hope the seller makes it right for you - and let us know either way. No seller is free of mistakes or misfortune, so the quality of the seller is in how they react to and handle these instances. Best of luck to you!

[PL-Reef]

No seller is free of mistakes or misfortune, so the quality of the seller is in how they react to and handle these instances. Best of luck to you!


+1 well put.

[shred5]

I've never ordered coral online and now im really scared to try it. I feel your pain, i ordered a new AI Hydra (from a well known company) that was supposed to arrive yesterday. When I opened the box everything else I ordered was there and no light. It said it was on the packing slip but someone jacked it or they never packed it. Now I have a $400 battle on my hands, they better send a new one! I hope you get your money back.

Honestly I have order several hundreds of corals and fish online.. Only had a few fish and very few coral deaths. I order almost all dry goods online.

You have to make sure you order from a reputable place, the hard part is you end up eating shipping most of the time if something dies.. Most places are ok giving you a credit for the dead piece because hey now you have to pay shipping again so you may order more coral to justify the high shipping cost of overnight shipping. Some really good vendors will ship the coral back for free or you still eat shipping and they throw some free stuff in.

Also when you have issue leave vendor feedback so others know how it went and how it was resolved.

[neverwouldof]

First he said no refund as I don't feel comfortable at all, then i said sure you can resend only if you use at least three times more water and use styrafoam box. Then later he sent a text wanting a photo of every bag to show DOA. I looked at all of them and some were not as cloudy but already had tissue loss on them. My trash came today and wasn't gonna let those sit for a week in my trash can and sent him picture of box in trash. Then he asks for all pics a few hours later. I sent him five pics within minutes of getting them. It's not even about money, I almost told him forget it and just keep them money. Now that he sent that text it's a principle thing. I'm thinking I should just do a paypal resolution before it's too late. I'd say at least 70% of corals were in cloudy water like pics, whats the chance the other thirty were save-able with some tissue loss that was floating in bag?

[neverwouldof]

FYI- yes this was a reefer on here I bought from in the selling forum, most companies usually know how to ship properly so this shouldn't scare people from ordering coral online.... However I will be going to my local store Bio-Reef and just pay more but without all the hassle of taking time from work.

[saltymix]

That whole ordeal sounds pretty awkward. How do you tell someone they did something stupid without making them feel stupid, and still get your money back.

[GroktheCube]

UPS is far better than fedex in my area. I have NEVER had to jump through hoops to get live good through UPS, but close to 50% of the time with fedex it takes a half dozen phonecalls and a trip to the local fedex center to get my livestock.

Sorry for your troubles, those frags were terribly packed, and you are deserving of a refund or reship. It's a bit odd that he's asking for photos of every single specimen given a 48hr wait and that bad packing job. I'd do everything you can to resolve it with him directly, but if he won't help you, I'd got to paypal.

[Mattewell]

who packs like that, seriously, I would have more water in there when trading frags with a fellow reefer who is in the same city. The seller needs some common sense...

[sirreal63]

If he doesn't make it right...make sure and leave feedback, it may help someone else.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=90

[MammothReefer]

Yah not cool at all. I like to think the community here on RC that sells frags does so for more then to just make a quick buck. Meaning they go the extra mile to over pack things even if it eats into the cost a little more. This was either a novice seller who needs to learn how to ship or a shady seller that needs to be avoided. I hope you are able to get a refund.

Edit: Just did a little snooping and saw you posted on Boggs thread. Now I'm really confused these weren't from him were they? He is normally a very excellent seller. I used to know him personally.

[Ian]

However I will be going to my local store Bio-Reef and just pay more but without all the hassle of taking time from work.

Bioreef has all the good stuff, you're lucky to have a store like that locally :D

[ct_vol]

They were all in tiny baggies with about a shot glass of water. No styrofoam box, just put in a small cardboard box with a couple dozen peanuts.

Doomed from the start... Hopefully you'll get a refund. If suggest sharing your buying experience in the Feedback Forum so others will know to steer clear of this seller.

I wouldn't completely write off buying online, but you want to buy from reputable sources... :)

[neverwouldof]

I looked and the person has some great feedback so maybe i'll give him a second shot. As long as he does his best to work it out it's fine with me. His corals look excellent from the photos so hopefully it all works out! There should be a sticky in the selling area to show how to pack like the pro's do it etc.

[echopiece]

Wow, so sorry for this! I wouldn't expect those frags to live 12-24hrs the way they were shipped! Just awful! Be firm and don't let this go. I'm sure you spent a decent amount of money, and in the end either a refund or new frags properly wrapped is only fair. And like others said, leave detailed feedback to help others in the future. Good luck!

[footballdude2k3]

There are some people on here I have considered buying from since there is not much SPS for me locally, any chance you can either put the seller in here or PM that to me?

[cthedaytrader]

Wow, In all my years, even in some of the bad experiences I have had, I have never received coral that wasn't at the very least in a cooler. With so much information out there about shipping either they decided not to read any of it, and has never received shipped sps, or they simply didn't care, but that is the worst packing job I have seen. At this time of year I doubt they would have survived overnight let alone 48 hours.

[scrapz]

Wow. Hardly any water,. No styro box. That's the worse packing job I've seen to date!!!
What did the seller think he was shipping, zoas? I get more water from local frag swaps, holy ****.

You should post the seller's name so we can avoid purchasing from him. He could have done the honorable thing and resent you the package minus the shipping cost or at least refunded you half. Shady *** seller and corals were doomed from the start IMO.

[Dog boy Dave]

Really now you bought 35 frags at one time ? I gotta ask, how much did you pay for 35 frags? I bet it sounded cheap. . Sometimes you gotta ask yourself is a great deal really that great?
I see you're In Jacksonville. Drive to Tally and check out High Tide. Scott will frag just about anything in his systems for less than 30 bucks usually. Ken over at Seminole Aquarium always has a few accros at very reasonable prices as well. For that mater, you can fill a whole kooler of stuff from my systems for less than the cost for shipping it. You know you wanna , road trip time.

[Arkayology]

I can't believe someone would ship that many corals and not use a styro box. I know it is common practice to ship in those little water baggies, something I do not agree with, but no styro box? That is just lazy or irresponsible.

I hope this works out for you in the end.

[echopiece]

Really now you bought 35 frags at one time ? I gotta ask, how much did you pay for 35 frags? I bet it sounded cheap. . Sometimes you gotta ask yourself is a great deal really that great?
I see you're In Jacksonville. Drive to Tally and check out High Tide. Scott will frag just about anything in his systems for less than 30 bucks usually. Ken over at Seminole Aquarium always has a few accros at very reasonable prices as well. For that mater, you can fill a whole kooler of stuff from my systems for less than the cost for shipping it. You know you wanna , road trip time.
I don't think that's too unheard of! I bought, 22 SPS frags from a member on here and they were shipped properly, all heat sealed in individual bags and in a styro box. I think i paid $300 for the whole pack including shipping. It's cheaper to purchase more on one shipment than a few here and there. It's a good way to kick start your SPS dominant system. Plus, even if the OP's shipment was properly bagged and shipped, you typically lose a few from stress or RTN.

[Dog boy Dave]

I don't think that's too unheard of! I bought, 22 SPS frags from a member on here and they were shipped properly, all heat sealed in individual bags and in a styro box. I think i paid $300 for the whole pack including shipping. It's cheaper to purchase more on one shipment than a few here and there. It's a good way to kick start your SPS dominant system. Plus, even if the OP's shipment was properly bagged and shipped, you typically lose a few from stress or RTN.

Glad it worked out for you. 10 dollars a frag plus shipping is very cheap. You did good. I'm sure the poster feels much better knowing that sometimes people get away with going cheap. Assuming these were just as cheap, it didn't work out so good for him though did it ? My point is if someone is selling or giving away cheap corals then there is a reason. At the very least they must not think they are worth much. Sometimes the reason is they are very casual about it. Often you get what you pay for.

[neverwouldof]

I paid $495 shipped, sometimes I run across reefers who just want to get some cash for their clippings and they sell cheap. I've seen some amazing packs on here and the corals look amazing. Same thing with local reefers preferring to get people started and their tanks are overgrown. Everyone is different and it's kind of a crap shoot !

[Dapg8gt]

That's a horrible pack job.. Myself I would give him a chance to make it right and if he doesn't let it be known that he is shady.. Him asking for a pic of everyone is crazy after what it went through.. He should do something just on the fact of the pack job I agree that you would have probably had issues if they were on time..

$500 is a lot to just let go I would go the PayPal route but honestly not sure if they will do much I've been screwed by them in other situations. Make sure PayPal is not against live animal type transactions also as I thought I read somewhere that shipping company's like fed ex explicitly say no guarantee on live animals or its against there policy or something like that.. Good luck hope you get a resolution if not blow him up publicly on here and Def post in the feedback section and bump it everytime he puts up a for sale ad :)..

[DopeCantWin]

I paid $495 shipped, sometimes I run across reefers who just want to get some cash for their clippings and they sell cheap. I've seen some amazing packs on here and the corals look amazing. Same thing with local reefers preferring to get people started and their tanks are overgrown. Everyone is different and it's kind of a crap shoot !

I feel like this is too much information. If I was up for a witch hunt, I could probably figure out who sent you these frags. I'd say either come out and say who it was, or handle it privately.

[neverwouldof]

He's going to reship and promises better packing so no witch hunt needed if he makes things right. He has excellent feedback so we'll see how they come in next week. I'll update with pics of new frags.

[footballdude2k3]

Glad to hear he made that right, good luck!

[DopeCantWin]

He's going to reship and promises better packing so no witch hunt needed if he makes things right. He has excellent feedback so we'll see how they come in next week. I'll update with pics of new frags.

Hope he sent it UPS.

[Dapg8gt]

That's good news that should be a nice starter pack and great looking collection in a year.

[GreshamH]

Unless the seller has access to pure O2 for bagging, I would not even get a sliver of hope up.

I never packed corals in o2 and had quite a good track record, and given airlines demand a 48H pack, it tended to be a non issue.

[GreshamH]

I disagree. Maybe its not oxygen but when I get a frag shipped 24hrs and the temperature is fine even than the water has a slight rancid smell. After 48hrs under most peoples shipping practices and even with good temps this box is DOA, IMO.

I hope the OP can get some money back and maybe a few survivors though...

You do understand there is rarely an imported shipment of coral (how they all get into the states) lands under 24, but typically 48 hours? There is nothing more costly in marine ornamental wholesale then a dead coral in a box... water is heavy, $8-1$2 a kg in freight, box fees, CITES, broker fees, etc

[GreshamH]

OK, addressing the decent amount of water and corals using little O2 points:

Using an Acropora respiration rate of 0.2 gO2 m^-2 hr^-1 (derived from A. palmata), and an O2 solubility of 6.6 mg/L at 25C and 35 psu salinity in water, if we place a 5 cm x 5 cm piece of coral in 1 L of oxygen saturated seawater, after only 13 hours, less than 2% of the original mass of O2 in the water will remain! That's 100 millionths of a gram of O2. In an entire liter! Proper gas headspace and sufficient oxygenation of that headspace is a MAJOR factor!

That said, these pictures make me ill. Those corals are incredibly poorly packed and probably looked about the same yesterday.

You chose one of those most o2 demanding corals :lol:

Don't forget, the plastic used is o2 permeable to a degree, no bags we use block o2 transfer entirely.

[zackw]

A few weeks ago I had a shipment of acros get delayed on a saturday. It was shipped friday, and didnt make it till monday and n top of that, on monday i had to work so I couldnt not get home to open box untill 7:00 monday evening. So these five acros sat in texas friday and saturday where the heat was 110 and sat in tennessee two more days where the heat was 85. Only half a cold pack was used as well. Believe it or not two of the five acros survived! Even though the shipper has very good shipping practices I would have never thought any acro would have survived that long in a box with half a cold pack in the. heat! An Acro Miracle!

[neverwouldof]

Well to wrap up my experience, He sent a second shipment with Styrofoam but still sent with tiny bit of water. Out of the 35 I think I should have 29-30 live. One was in light brown water when I got it and the other few looked stressed and have since started to disintegrate. I'm leaving them in there as you never know, there might be a tiny bit of tissue that holds on. All the other coral are looking ok with good color.

I wish I remembered who I got my first corals from, He only sells like once a year and he was absolutely the man! His corals had better color then I see in magazines and that is after their overnight trip. I'm going to do some hunting in paypal to see if I can find out who it was....

[franklypre]

Sounds like Copps to me.

[neverwouldof]

And you sir would be correct !!!

Copps it was

[rtbm]

About three years ago i did a trade with a guy in the summer.

Fed ex actually lost the box. Had no idea what happened to it. It was off the grid and gone.

About a week later I come home to a box on my front porch.

It was the coral and believe it or not it was all alive but one If i remember. They had lost a bit of color but were otherwise ok.

If i had not seen it with my own eyes I would not have believed it but the weather was perfect and he used a really good thick styro. A total of six days had passed.


I have mentioned this at least once in an older thread about a similar circumstance:)

Still makes my day when I think about it.

[aandfsoccr04]

Sounds like Copps to me.

:lol:

I said the same exact thing as soon as I read his post.
Hilarious :lmao:

[ptreef]

brown water upon arrival sounds like tissues loss and basically DOA.