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View Full Version : High end reef tank high NITRATES help


SUPERSTOCKRACER
06/30/2013, 05:51 AM
Taking over a reef tank 245 gallons that has incredibly high nitrates. I need to bring them down pretty fast.
Any ideas on where to start.
Berlin system, deep sand bed, good skimmer, halide lighting,ro unit is good working order.
levels are over 200-300.
only corals left is a large button polyp zoo colony and a large green striped mushroom colony.
starting Monday.

Gary Majchrzak
06/30/2013, 05:55 AM
get rid of bio media, some of the larger fishes then do a big water change

got REAL liverock in it?

footballdude2k3
06/30/2013, 06:22 AM
Ditch the DSB if you are moving it, check the TDS on the RO system, 50% water change

dkeller_nc
06/30/2013, 09:18 AM
I can't emphasize this more strongly:

Don't do things to bring the nitrates down rapidly!

Without more details it's hard to know for sure, but what you've described seems to be a tank that has been neglected for a long time. Unlike ammonia that can go sky high in a couple of days from a large die-off, nitrates tend to build up very slowly over a long period.

If this is the case with this tank, it's highly likely that there are lots of water parameters that are messed up, not just the nitrates. Doing a series of rapid, large water changes could easily shock what life remains in the tank and kill it. I don't mean just the visible ones (coral, fish, etc...), there is presumably a lot of life on/in the live rock, and you don't want that to die off and cause a tank cycle.

Keep the adage of "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" in mind - you want to correct the water chemistry slowly over a week or more. What would be indicated is a series of daily 5-10% water changes.

Gary Majchrzak
06/30/2013, 09:29 AM
IME/IMO it would be ideal to bring nitrates down ASAP.
It will bring other parameters in line more quickly as well- a good thing based on the descriptions.

It doesn't sound like there's anything sensitive left alive in this aquarium :)

I would NOT use Chemiclean to rid this aquarium of Cyanobacteria.

mm949
06/30/2013, 09:40 AM
drain it and start over....
fixing the tank will cost more and take longer

Gary Majchrzak
06/30/2013, 10:04 AM
it sounds like this fellow is taking over a maintenance account starting Monday.

Draining the aquarium = massive water change. A good idea, IMO.
Move quickly to save whatever is left alive.
The water change itself (if done properly!) should help rid this aquarium of Cyano.

I don't usually recommend 'lights out' for Cyano... but this is a case where I would. Those button polyps aren't going to die if the lights are left off for one week. Obviously, keep the skimmer going and watch it closely so it doesn't flood anything.

Drae
06/30/2013, 10:55 AM
Ditch the dsb and do a 95% water change. Add a bunch of calurpa algae to the sump ( fuge or not) and start carbon dosing.

SUPERSTOCKRACER
06/30/2013, 12:54 PM
there's no cyno or algae at all, just very bad water quality, Live rock is in excellent condition as well, just a few corals left. great lighting, good skimming, theres no actinic on this tank either. fish look good except for a old beat up hippo tang.

BTW tank is approximately 3 years old and what I have been told, just started going downhill for a month now. filter system is very clean, theres just a sump with skimmer and precision prefilter bags catching the debris.

Timfish
06/30/2013, 02:07 PM
To start with it's probably phosphates that are causing problems not nitrates. You didn't mention what all has died off in the last month. I would suspect you are actually dealing with several different issues and not just one single cause. Fish will certainly tolerate higher nitrate levels than that and the paly/zoas and mushrooms probably can also. If all the existing animals that are in the system now are expanding I would not be as aggressive as others have suggested. I would stick with 50 - 100 gallon water changes every week or every other week. The only reason I would do 50% or more water change is if the corals and fish look to be under duress, if the fish are behaving normally and the palys/zoas and mushrooms are opening up they will be fine. You didn't mention what the pH, alk and calcium are, these are what I would focus on. If you want to pull out the bioballs go for it but I have wet/dry systems that are much, much older without nitrate issues. If the DSB is in the main tank and it has a plenum (Jaubert style) I would remove it at some point because I don't like the look of a 4" layer of sand against the glass in a DT and it will require pulling out everything. If it does not have a plenum I would just gradually syphon it out over time. Expect the sand to be very mucky.

SUPERSTOCKRACER
06/30/2013, 02:33 PM
To start with it's probably phosphates that are causing problems not nitrates. You didn't mention what all has died off in the last month. I would suspect you are actually dealing with several different issues and not just one single cause. Fish will certainly tolerate higher nitrate levels than that and the paly/zoas and mushrooms probably can also. If all the existing animals that are in the system now are expanding I would not be as aggressive as others have suggested. I would stick with 50 - 100 gallon water changes every week or every other week. The only reason I would do 50% or more water change is if the corals and fish look to be under duress, if the fish are behaving normally and the palys/zoas and mushrooms are opening up they will be fine. You didn't mention what the pH, alk and calcium are, these are what I would focus on. If you want to pull out the bioballs go for it but I have wet/dry systems that are much, much older without nitrate issues. If the DSB is in the main tank and it has a plenum (Jaubert style) I would remove it at some point because I don't like the look of a 4" layer of sand against the glass in a DT and it will require pulling out everything. If it does not have a plenum I would just gradually syphon it out over time. Expect the sand to be very mucky.


there's no bioballs in the system, berlin style, sand is clean also.no muck. As far as the mg. phosphate, alkalinirty, I went by the sheet that the other guy say's he did(I don't believe it)and all levels were suppose to be in line. On the sheet, Nitrates say 3-5ppm.What a joke. says Mg 1400, ca. 500, KH 9 i.m going to retest tomorrow but from what I see and the nitrate test was screaming high. Never in my life have I seen nitrates in a reef tank this high.
I'm setting up another 44 gallon brute pail to make more water. theres a 55 gl. chem tank there now. So for tomorrow its a 55 gallon change and then on Friday, another water change with both 55 & 44 gl. pails.
Do you think this should help? And should I go into the sand bed and strain?

Dodger745
06/30/2013, 04:01 PM
I have a similar experience. I bought a 180g com-lete setup that had been neglected. all that was left was a medium sized mushroom rock and all of the fish. all of the invertebrates and other corals including sps were dead. we moved the system, and I replaced the sandbed. I cleaned out the sump/fuge and only used about half of the live rock that was with the setup. because I feel it had way too much in it. saved a small amount of the system water and we set the tank back up at my house once we moved it. after getting everything up and running in my house, I did an 80 gallon water change each week for 3 weeks. then since Ive been doing 30 gallons every 2 weeks. nitrates have came down to around 20 ppm. they were over 100ppm in the beginning of all of this. all of the fish have done very well. im hoping to try and re-introduce some coral back to the system before long...

SUPERSTOCKRACER
06/30/2013, 05:39 PM
reducing the sand bed is not an option at the moment. Theres a good possibility that this tank is going to be moved in the near future so then i think i will thin out the sand bed or replace most of it with new. Live rock amount is perfect.

mpfeiffer1
06/30/2013, 08:11 PM
Had a similar issue when I bought a 72 Bowfront from a friend. What I did was added a phosban 150 reactor with phosban and another 150 with Thrive Crush biopellets (probably could use any of the pellets but i like the Thrive products with Ph control). Read instructions and star slow. Mote: Takes 3 weeks for the Thrive Crush to start working. Also Added Carbon as well to sump where water was moving quickly. Even dosed some Prime and additional bacteria. Note: The media will get saturated and will need to be changed out when you see a plateau on your tests. Also run the heck out of your skimmer. Took me 3 months with weekly 10-20% water changes to bring it to zero. Yes, got rid of some fish. My guess is the guy messed with the sump or DSb and stirred up a bunch of nastiness. Maybe even causing a mini-cycle. Good luck but it will get better. Also test for ammonia. Mini-cycle will equal ammonia and nitrates. If you are moving the tank absolutely change the DSB. Lastly do not put any corals in there until nitrates and phosphates are at zero. However, You may start to see stuff start to grow back when the parameters are back in shape.

Timfish
07/01/2013, 06:11 AM
. . . Do you think this should help? And should I go into the sand bed and strain?

Any water changes will help. The size of the water change I would let the behaviour of the animals decide if I'm going to do more moderate water changes or a couple of massive water changes. If the mushrooms and paly/zoas are opening and expanding I would prefer to do moderate water changes and remediate the system gradually. I don't remember who I heard this from first but "Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank".

It definitely sounds like you need to get some reliable benchmarks for the water parameters to work with including phosphates. If the sand looks clean using a syphon to suck any muck out of it is up to you. If you are going to move it soon that's an excuse not to add any new livestock except hardy mushrooms and polyps until a couple of months after the move. Can you add a light and chaeto to the sump?

DopeCantWin
07/01/2013, 06:37 AM
-1 on the huge water change. +1 to ditching all the sand slowly through smaller water changes. Some Chaeto under quality LEDs should get those nitrates to nothing.

SUPERSTOCKRACER
07/01/2013, 05:13 PM
-1 on the huge water change. +1 to ditching all the sand slowly through smaller water changes. Some Chaeto under quality LEDs should get those nitrates to nothing.


no place to add chaeto. its a weird double sump separated by 2 2" bulkheads (overkill)
right side has 2 nicron prefilter bags with carbon bags and phosphate remover in this section.
other section where 2 Iwaki pumps are have a medium size euro-style skimmer, so no room for chaeto. They are weird sizes too.

Drae
07/01/2013, 05:20 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a big water change. The bacteria is on the rock and sand not the water. Easiest way to lower nutrients is to do a big water change.