BeanAnimal power outage concern

[LoJack]

So I've had my BeanAnimal overlow set up for over a year now with no issues. I actually love it. Its still dead silent, hasn't needed any tweaking and the emergency drain has saved an overflow once already due to a piece of Nori that plugged off the meshing over my main drain pipe.

Anyhow, last night there was a fire on our block and we lost our power for a couple of hours. When the power comes back on however, the main siphon doesn't completely purge itself of air. The level rises until it covers the airline of the secondary pipe, creating a full siphon as its supposed to. The water level drops, and the cycle repeats itself.

In Bean's original thread, he states that it takes a few minutes for all the air to leave the system, and for the overflow to find its balance ... however mine is not doing that. It will keep rising and falling, until I physically grab the street elbow, and turn it to allow the air to escape. Immediately after doing that, the overflow finds equillibrium and goes back to being dead silent, stable, and air free water into the sump.

I've never had a problem just moving the elbow after the power went out ... its never caused a problem other than being a little bit noisy until I release the built up air bubble. However, I now have an Tunze Auto Top off, and the fluctuating sump level due to the air in the system is causing my ATO to pump more RO water into my sump than it normally would.

Anyone have any idea why my system won't clear the air on its own?

[rbarn]

You need to lower the level of the intake of siphon pipe. The water level in the overflow box is dropping far enough to let air in the siphon pipe before it has a chance to go into full siphon mode.

If your ball valve controlling the siphon is below the tank, you need enough water volume in your overflow box to fill that pipe down to the control valve.

Make sense ?

[LoJack]

so hypothetically I should just be able to close the ball valve a bit more to create a full siphon.

If I understand what you're saying, your thoughts are that the valve is open too much, allowing air into both standpipes instead of creating a full siphon in one, and a trickle in the other?

This makes sense to me, I'm on night shift tonight, but I'll test the theory tomorrow and see if that works.

[Scffvariable]

I have the exact same problem with mine...following.

[uncleof6]

The air vent tube for the open channel is too low in the overflow. The main siphon should start, before the water level closes off the air vent. When the open channel kicks in, before the air purges from the main siphon, the main siphon will never start, without direct intervention. Don't feel bad, this is amongst the top 5 implementation mistakes.

On startup, water level rises, and water will flow in the DRY EMERGENCY line, for a few minutes, while the air purges from the main siphon. During the startup, the air vent line should be above the water level. Raising the inlet to the air vent line, above the dry emergency, allows the dry emergency to kick in before the open channel. The open channel should never kick in, unless there is a full/partial occlusion of both the main siphon and dry emergency.

[LoJack]

The air vent tube for the open channel is too low in the overflow. The main siphon should start, before the water level closes off the air vent. When the open channel kicks in, before the air purges from the main siphon, the main siphon will never start, without direct intervention. Don't feel bad, this is amongst the top 5 implementation mistakes.

On startup, water level rises, and water will flow in the DRY EMERGENCY line, for a few minutes, while the air purges from the main siphon. During the startup, the air vent line should be above the water level. Raising the inlet to the air vent line, above the dry emergency, allows the dry emergency to kick in before the open channel. The open channel should never kick in, unless there is a full/partial occlusion of both the main siphon and dry emergency.

I will try this tomorrow and report back. This makes sense though. Both theories make perfect sense. I'm confident I should be able to rectify this issue.

Thanks a bunch guys ...

[ca1ore]

Are you saying that in the past the primary siphon has restarted without a problem, but this last time it did not? If so, have you changed anything? It may be that the airline on the secondary siphon has slipped down, or perhaps you changed the water depth in your sump, or the primary siphon has some kind of blockage?

[LoJack]

How long does it take for everyone elses system to purge itself of air after a restart?

I moved the airline up ... no difference. Its now bouncing between the full siphon, and the upturned emergency pipe ... and I'm going on 10 minutes, without it finding balance and getting rid of the trapped air.

[dirtycontour]

Mine only takes seconds to start up. My open channel does take on water though. I guess I need to find a different place to mount my airline. Here is a video of my set up.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kw47nYGlrlw

[bad santa]

I had this problem once. I solved it by turning the valve all the way open and then turning it all the way closed. Then I just adjusted the valve to find the sweet spot and it resolved my issue. I believe something was stuck by the vae and by turning it a few times ur dislodged what was stuck.
My "Beananimal" system only takes 10-15 sec to balance itself out after start up.

[leveldrummer]

How far do your drains drop under water in your sump? When I set mine up, my drains lines were too far under water in my sump and the syphon wouldn't start, the gravity couldn't force the air out. I cut my drains so the are only 1/2"-1" under the sump level and it starts up fine now.

[Tom39]

How long does it take for everyone elses system to purge itself of air after a restart?

I moved the airline up ... no difference. Its now bouncing between the full siphon, and the upturned emergency pipe ... and I'm going on 10 minutes, without it finding balance and getting rid of the trapped air.

How far is your primary siphon drain extend below the water surface in your sump? If it is more than 1/2" to 1" there is too much back pressure to get the siphon up and running quickly or sometimes not getting it going at all.

I had the same issue and it took forever, sometimes never without help, to get the system back up and running. To fix the problem I shortened how far the primary siphon pipe extended beyond the surface of the water (mine is now less than 1/2") in the sump. Once I shortened the pipe the system is up and running in less than a minute. There is a thread on the forum that addressed and solved this issue, but I could not find it to add the link.
As for the airline, I have mine set to the top of the elbow of the primary backup. I found that changing its position only dictates when you choose to have it go to full siphon so you don't have wet floor syndrome.

Another thing that I found in the original Been thread that helped is not having the level of the backup inlet at the same level as the primary siphon. This avoids having the backup pull water below the bottom of the primary and causing the primary to suck air and lose any progress it has made getting up and running. You can either cut the elbow shorter or cut teeth in it to break the siphon. I chose to cut teeth and have mine set to break at about 3/4" higher than the primary and it works like a charm.

Hope that helps,

Tom G

[awais98]

1+:thumbsup:



Another thing that I found in the original Been thread that helped is not having the level of the backup inlet at the same level as the primary siphon. This avoids having the backup pull water below the bottom of the primary and causing the primary to suck air and lose any progress it has made getting up and running. You can either cut the elbow shorter or cut teeth in it to break the siphon. I chose to cut teeth and have mine set to break at about 3/4" higher than the primary and it works like a charm.
Tom G

[LoJack]

How far do your drains drop under water in your sump? When I set mine up, my drains lines were too far under water in my sump and the syphon wouldn't start, the gravity couldn't force the air out. I cut my drains so the are only 1/2"-1" under the sump level and it starts up fine now.

How far is your primary siphon drain extend below the water surface in your sump? If it is more than 1/2" to 1" there is too much back pressure to get the siphon up and running quickly or sometimes not getting it going at all.

I had the same issue and it took forever, sometimes never without help, to get the system back up and running. To fix the problem I shortened how far the primary siphon pipe extended beyond the surface of the water (mine is now less than 1/2") in the sump. Once I shortened the pipe the system is up and running in less than a minute. There is a thread on the forum that addressed and solved this issue, but I could not find it to add the link.
As for the airline, I have mine set to the top of the elbow of the primary backup. I found that changing its position only dictates when you choose to have it go to full siphon so you don't have wet floor syndrome.

Another thing that I found in the original Been thread that helped is not having the level of the backup inlet at the same level as the primary siphon. This avoids having the backup pull water below the bottom of the primary and causing the primary to suck air and lose any progress it has made getting up and running. You can either cut the elbow shorter or cut teeth in it to break the siphon. I chose to cut teeth and have mine set to break at about 3/4" higher than the primary and it works like a charm.

Hope that helps,

Tom G

Mine is about 8" below the surface of the water in the sump. I'll try this today and repost with my results. I'm going to sleep first though ... just got home from a 14 hour night shift lol.

Thanks again guys for the help and the extra problem solving ... I appreciate it

[leveldrummer]

Mine is about 8" below the surface of the water in the sump. I'll try this today and repost with my results. I'm going to sleep first though ... just got home from a 14 hour night shift lol.

Thanks again guys for the help and the extra problem solving ... I appreciate it

Thats your issue... cut it down.

[LoJack]

How far do your drains drop under water in your sump? When I set mine up, my drains lines were too far under water in my sump and the syphon wouldn't start, the gravity couldn't force the air out. I cut my drains so the are only 1/2"-1" under the sump level and it starts up fine now.

How far is your primary siphon drain extend below the water surface in your sump? If it is more than 1/2" to 1" there is too much back pressure to get the siphon up and running quickly or sometimes not getting it going at all.

I had the same issue and it took forever, sometimes never without help, to get the system back up and running. To fix the problem I shortened how far the primary siphon pipe extended beyond the surface of the water (mine is now less than 1/2") in the sump. Once I shortened the pipe the system is up and running in less than a minute. There is a thread on the forum that addressed and solved this issue, but I could not find it to add the link.
As for the airline, I have mine set to the top of the elbow of the primary backup. I found that changing its position only dictates when you choose to have it go to full siphon so you don't have wet floor syndrome.

Another thing that I found in the original Been thread that helped is not having the level of the backup inlet at the same level as the primary siphon. This avoids having the backup pull water below the bottom of the primary and causing the primary to suck air and lose any progress it has made getting up and running. You can either cut the elbow shorter or cut teeth in it to break the siphon. I chose to cut teeth and have mine set to break at about 3/4" higher than the primary and it works like a charm.

Hope that helps,

Tom G

Thats your issue... cut it down.

I love this Forum!

I just came down to check on the tank and remembered our chat from this morning. I took off the extension that enters the sump, took it out to the mitre saw and chopped it down so that its about 1/2" -3/4" below the surface. I didn't bother measuring, just an eyeball job.

I simulated 3 power outages on the reef afterwards ... all 3 times the Bean Overflow found balance in under 10 seconds!!

Thanks so much guys! You're the best