Help with beananimal overflow design!!!

[cleverbs]

I am installing a beananimal overflow and need a custom overflow fabricated. I want it to be 4.5ft long in my 6ft tank

However how wide and tall should it be?

I am thinking 54x6x6 but will this be to wide and tall?

[Kdawg_69]

that my friend is a big overflow and will be a bit over kill mme personally i would do a 54 long x 4 wide x 4 wide and that will be plently of overflow skimming of the surface and won't take as much real estate in the tank i've even seen a thread on here for a low profile beananimal overflow but I don't know how well it worked

[cleverbs]

See I felt like 4x4 would be fine.

[cleverbs]

How big and far part should the teeth be?

[RocketEngineer]

How big and far part should the teeth be?

No teeth.

For my 125g I DIYed the overflow out of four pieces of glass. It was easier than trying to get something made.

[cleverbs]

Nvm I'm not going to put teeth on it and just have it flat and put a screen or egg rate over the siphon pipe.

[cleverbs]

Will 54x4x4 be big enough for 1.5" bulkhead drains.

[leveldrummer]

get your bulkheads and elbows/screens that your planning to put in the overflow, make it wide enough that you can install the bulkhead and elbow. (if the bulk head is 3 inches tall, make it 4 inches off set from the back glass)

then make it deep enough that your bulkhead will fit, you can put an elbow in there facing down, with what ever screen you intend on using fitting in there also. if your bulk head will be 2" below the water level, and from the center of the bulkhead to the top of the screen will be around 4", then you should make the overflow 6.5 inches or so deep. so you have a little extra room under the screen.

[KSzegi]

I have a 4.5 foot external overflow on mine - and the box is 5" wide by 7" deep and with the 1.5 inch drains I wouldn't want it any smaller....

[cleverbs]

Well the whole idea behind the beananimal is the fact of not creating a vortex. Bean says the whole reason or not creating the vortex it so have the siphone suction close to the glass so that it creates a rapid and chaotic flow at a shallow level. I am thinking I'm going to do 56x5x5 that way I can pull the street elbow out of the bulk head. And then they should have about 1/2 clearance from the bottom of the overflow. Just like beans design.

[cleverbs]

well did some more measuring I am going to make it 56Lx4Wx6h

that gives me enough space to put the street elbow into the bulk head,

[awais98]

Thats exactly what I had done, 4 wide and 6 deep for 1 1/2 inch bean animal elbows.
My tank is 60 long, so I just use 2 glass peices 60 long for end to end weirr, one 4inches wide other 6 inches wide. and I just siliconed them to the tank.
Check my thread, Ive shown what I did.

well did some more measuring I am going to make it 56Lx4Wx6h

that gives me enough space to put the street elbow into the bulk head,

[cleverbs]

I would do this but I was told buy all my glass suppliers in my town that they won't cut a glass 6ft long and 4" wide. So I'm having an acrylic one made and it only cost 100$

[leveldrummer]

well did some more measuring I am going to make it 56Lx4Wx6h

that gives me enough space to put the street elbow into the bulk head,

Thats about the size mine ended up being for my 1" drain system. i think mine was actually 3.5 inches wide. but your on the right track.

You could get the glass cut as long as they will allow, then just silicone a small square on each end.

My overflow is only 14" wide, (its a 60 gallon tank though) you can easily get by with a 3 foot overflow or something similar.

[RocketEngineer]

I have a 42" overflow in a 72" tank. The bottom of my internal box is only a few inches wide. The goal is to have as much length as possible. If they would do a 48" piece, that would be plenty of length.

[cleverbs]

I just think Its probably cheaper to get the acrylic one made. Wouldn't you think?

[cleverbs]

Does it matter where in the overflow the three pipes are placed? As long as they are level and all together?

How far down from the black trim should the hole be drilled the closer the better. And how far apart does each hole need to be?

[SGT_York]

How do you keep algae from growing? I have to pick mine off manually ever three weeks.

[cleverbs]

Ok so do I get a solid custom fabricated acrylic overflow made that's 4.5ft or use 3/8th" glass and have one made that 4ft. The longest they will make the glass overflow is 4ft and its half the price of the acrylic.

The benefit of the acrylic is its a solid piece of acrylic. It will be black so you won't see the elbows and it will be 100% level. The glass ill have to silicone together myself and I am not the best siliconer in the world. Iv done it and been successful but its not pretty.

[cleverbs]

Ok so the guy at the LFS was extreamly skeptical about using 1.5'' drain being big enough for a 220g tank. Personally I think its plenty, but i wanted another opinion.

[awais98]

First off get a glass weir made. If you r gonna stick acrylic to glass it won't hold for ever. Glass on glass silicones for ever.
End to end or the longer the weir the better skimming.

Prefabricated acrylic weir will work just you'll have to attach it with the bulkhead and rubber gaskets in between weir and glass and also inside the acrylic weir.

Abt 1 1/2 inch PVC, it will flow 2100 gph.... What's ur return pump rating?
And you'll have 3 of it per bean animal for safety.

[awais98]

I drilled mine down enough that once the street elbow was in place the upper turned elbow was still 1 inch below the black trim.

Drill just far apart so that you can turn each elbow 360 to fit it in.

Does it matter where in the overflow the three pipes are placed? As long as they are level and all together?

How far down from the black trim should the hole be drilled the closer the better. And how far apart does each hole need to be?

[awais98]

If you decide to silicone, level it using a leveler. Use clamps to keep it in place for curing.
To give silicone a finish, just run your finger on it once you've done putting silicone, you'll get much better finish

[cleverbs]

Well the custom acrylic overflow wouldn't have a back on it. The edges would be directly siliconed to the glass.

[cleverbs]

Do you think 3/8th" glass is thick enough? It's as thick as they will do it. And they will only make it 4ft.

[uncleof6]

Will 54x4x4 be big enough for 1.5" bulkhead drains.

No.

Before you do any overflow fabrication at all, you need to pop the holes in the back of the tank, and make darn sure they are in the right place (distance from the top edge of the glass,) fit your plumbing pieces to the bulkheads and do PYSICAL measurements to insure that the floor of the overflow is a decent distance from the bottom of the elbows.

There are hard minimum dimensions for placement of the holes, (according to the hole size) and they take precedent over minimizing the footprint of the overlfow. the size of the plumbing, and distance of the weir from the top edge of the glass, determines the other dimensions of the overflow.

Discussing "footprint usage" or "valuable real estate when designing an overflow is going about it basackwards, and such footprint usage is hardly worth making a design criteria. There is no valuable real estate at the top back of the tank, and the preceived benefits are just that: preceived, not a reality.

For 1.5" plumbing you will be down around 7 or so inches minimum, if you put the holes the right distance from the top edge of the glass.

I would think 3 times about using any "screening" on the drain inlets. If something gets in the overflow, you want it to get down to the sump, rather than get stuck on the screen and die. As for plugging, there is enough redundancy in this system, to make "screening" rather pointless. If you implement the system "as designed," clearing a drain blockage is very easy, without disassembly.

Does it matter where in the overflow the three pipes are placed? As long as they are level and all together?

It does not matter where in the overflow the pipes are, nor does it matter where the the bulkheads are horizontally, in relation to each other...it is about the flow interaction between the siphon and open channel, not the physical location. Wider overflows enhance this communication, narrower reduce it. (fluid dynamics)

Bulkheads level with each other, is preferred. There is talk of having the open channel bulkhead higher than the siphon, to assist in starting, but I have yet to see that it is needed, as starting issues are due to design flaws with the individual implementation of the system, the system itself works as designed—everytime.


How far down from the black trim should the hole be drilled the closer the better. And how far apart does each hole need to be?

I am not going to figure out the measurements, however the top edge of the holes need to be 1 hole diameter down from the top edge of the GLASS, the trim really is not a measuring point, however as a general rule, the top of the trim is 1/2" above the top edge of the glass (make sure however.)

That said, the top of the weir is generally placed 1" down from the top edge of the glass (generally even with the bottom of the trim on the outside of the tank.) For a 1" waterfall into the overflow (1 - 1.5" preferred) you have to cheat the holes down by an amount equal to the distance from the top of a down turned elbow to the centerline of elbow when attaced to the bulkhead. This results in a hole placement a little over the hole diameter down from the top edge of the glass. (for instance, for 1" plumbing, the center line of the hole is 2 3/4" down, which makes the distance to the top edge of the hole 1.875" down, rather than 1.75".) These are minimum dimensions, for protecting the integrity of the back panel, and to ensure enough head room (pressure) to start the siphon. Splitting hairs? Not really.

Evaluate your flow needs. 1.5" bulkheads should be reserved for flow rates above 1500 gph. 1" will serve up to that point, and depending on the length of the drop, somewhat beyond that.

[LoJack]

The 3 holes should be perfectly level. I was beginning to believe that the siphon channel would benefit from being lower, but as Uncle has mentioned it was another flaw altogether giving me the grief.

I just started a thread about issues with my bean startup after a power failure ... however, my issue was that my drain pipe went too far below the water level in the sump, and the full siphon didn't have the power to drive all of the air out of the bottom of the pipe through 8" of water.

My 3 holes are perfectly level, and I use 1.5" drains. I think your guy at the LFS is wrong in terms of them not being big enough. I run a Reeflo Dart as my return pump (3600 GPH) and my full siphon valve is almost half closed to have the system set up properly. 1.5" drains can handle an incredible amount of water!

Here is a link to my build thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2138575&highlight=144

In post 74 onward, you can see how the bean was done. Almost exactly to your specs.

Its 55" x 5" x 6"

I drilled the holes, then added bulkheads and streets, then measure and cut the glass based on the clearance I would need to remove the elbows.

I hope I can help. I just received incredible information in my own thread and I hope we can help you the way Uncle, and the others helped me!!

[cleverbs]

So the hole for my overflows I measered that the center should be 4.5" down from the trim, That would make it so that the emergency drain would kick in 1" below the tank being filled to the brim

However wont it mainly depend on where I place my overflow? If I have them drilled down in the tank to far for instense wont it only matter how high the overflow spill over is?

[awais98]

Well the custom acrylic overflow wouldn't have a back on it. The edges would be directly siliconed to the glass.

If it wouldn't have a back, Do not get acrylic as it will never really remain siliconed to the glass. If you do use acrylic without back, be ready to change to glass in 3 months.
If you still want to use acrylic, use one with a back

[cleverbs]

I decided to go with glass. I found a place that I can but all the glass for like 70$. My tank comes in today and they are drilling it. I have the drains 17.5" away from the corner of the tank. The holes are 4.5" below the trim and 4" apart.

[IANick]

Uncle:

I've seen your posts on a number of threads and greatly value the information you provide on these boards. I'm planning my own ~300g build with a coast to coast toothless BeanAnimal overflow, and have found your explanations on this topic (and others) very useful (and, obviously, BeanAnimal's also).

That said, try as I might, I'm having difficulty following your explanation here:

For a 1" waterfall into the overflow (1 - 1.5" preferred) you have to cheat the holes down by an amount equal to the distance from the top of a down turned elbow to the centerline of elbow when attaced to the bulkhead. This results in a hole placement a little over the hole diameter down from the top edge of the glass. (for instance, for 1" plumbing, the center line of the hole is 2 3/4" down, which makes the distance to the top edge of the hole 1.875" down, rather than 1.75".)

For whatever reason I'm just not getting how you calculated some of the above. The center line of the hole is 2.75" down and there is 1" plumbing. Wouldn't this place the top edge of the hole at 2.25" before adding the "cheating" amount? Am I missing something on how to determine the top edge location? And where does the .125" cheating amount come from? And how too did you come up with 2.75" to the center line of the hole? Does this assume a 1" or 1.5" waterfall? How does the center line of the hole relate to where the water level in the overflow "settles" at? I'm sure I'm missing something very basic and will have one of those "doh" moments, but thank you kindly for any clarification you could provide. (Thinking about it, I suspect some of my confusion is stemming from bulkhead hole sizes and pipe casing thicknesses... but if true, confirmation of this would be appreciated).

OP, sorry to interject myself in your thread, but at least it is sticking to your topic.

[awais98]

:thumbsup:
I decided to go with glass. I found a place that I can but all the glass for like 70$. My tank comes in today and they are drilling it. I have the drains 17.5" away from the corner of the tank. The holes are 4.5" below the trim and 4" apart.

[beanman]

...

[NanoReefWanabe]

Uncle:

I've seen your posts on a number of threads and greatly value the information you provide on these boards. I'm planning my own ~300g build with a coast to coast toothless BeanAnimal overflow, and have found your explanations on this topic (and others) very useful (and, obviously, BeanAnimal's also).

That said, try as I might, I'm having difficulty following your explanation here:

For a 1" waterfall into the overflow (1 - 1.5" preferred) you have to cheat the holes down by an amount equal to the distance from the top of a down turned elbow to the centerline of elbow when attaced to the bulkhead. This results in a hole placement a little over the hole diameter down from the top edge of the glass. (for instance, for 1" plumbing, the center line of the hole is 2 3/4" down, which makes the distance to the top edge of the hole 1.875" down, rather than 1.75".)

For whatever reason I'm just not getting how you calculated some of the above. The center line of the hole is 2.75" down and there is 1" plumbing. Wouldn't this place the top edge of the hole at 2.25" before adding the "cheating" amount? Am I missing something on how to determine the top edge location? And where does the .125" cheating amount come from? And how too did you come up with 2.75" to the center line of the hole? Does this assume a 1" or 1.5" waterfall? How does the center line of the hole relate to where the water level in the overflow "settles" at? I'm sure I'm missing something very basic and will have one of those "doh" moments, but thank you kindly for any clarification you could provide. (Thinking about it, I suspect some of my confusion is stemming from bulkhead hole sizes and pipe casing thicknesses... but if true, confirmation of this would be appreciated).

OP, sorry to interject myself in your thread, but at least it is sticking to your topic.

i am not super versed on the plumbing parts, but i believe the numbers come from general rules for drilling...

1" bulkhead requires a 1.75" hole, therefore this hole must be 1.75" from the glass edge to the edge of the hole...placing the centre line 2.625" below the edge of the glass...the top of your overflow box is generally 1" below the top of the glass (level with black trim) however you want your emergency bulkhead elbow (upturned) to be ~1" below the top of the weir, depending on the elbows you use, they are anywhere from 1.5" to about an inch tall above the edge of the hole or almost 2.25" to the centre line of the hole...therefore you have:
1" of glass under the trim plus 1" water drop in the box, plus 2.25" to centre of hole from the top of the elbow = 4.25" now if you add another 2.25" to that for the siphon elbow to be turned down you are at 6.5" then you want at least 1/2" from the bottom of the elbow to the bottom of the overflow box, bringing the depth of the box to 7" minimum....now you can cheat a bit and cut some of the elbow's height down, i wouldnt cut more then 1/2" off the elbows though, bringing your minimum box height to 6"...you must be careful though to maintain that 1" or 1.5" waterfall drop into the box though...you need to have your residual flow line's air line mounted above the height of the emergency drain...if the air line is below the emergency level, your siphon will have trouble starting, because the residual line will go into siphon before your your main line can purge...as mentioned above, i believe your minimum box dimensions should be, as long as the company will cut it (which ideally should be the length of the tank minus two thickness' of the tank's glass minus 1/8") by however wide you need to install and remove the elbows in the bulkheads (2.25" for the length of elbow + 1/2" for the height of the bulkhead + at least 1/2" for wiggle room/ clearance for removal) by a minimum of 7" tall...

[IANick]

Nanoreefwannabe:

You seem very well versed in the plumbing dimensions. Thanks very much - that helped a lot. Some of the threads on this stuff are so long that you can miss some of these details. You just put it all together very nicely or me.

[awais98]

:thumbsup:
Just beautiful!

i am not super versed on the plumbing parts, but i believe the numbers come from general rules for drilling...

1" bulkhead requires a 1.75" hole, therefore this hole must be 1.75" from the glass edge to the edge of the hole...placing the centre line 2.625" below the edge of the glass...the top of your overflow box is generally 1" below the top of the glass (level with black trim) however you want your emergency bulkhead elbow (upturned) to be ~1" below the top of the weir, depending on the elbows you use, they are anywhere from 1.5" to about an inch tall above the edge of the hole or almost 2.25" to the centre line of the hole...therefore you have:
1" of glass under the trim plus 1" water drop in the box, plus 2.25" to centre of hole from the top of the elbow = 4.25" now if you add another 2.25" to that for the siphon elbow to be turned down you are at 6.5" then you want at least 1/2" from the bottom of the elbow to the bottom of the overflow box, bringing the depth of the box to 7" minimum....now you can cheat a bit and cut some of the elbow's height down, i wouldnt cut more then 1/2" off the elbows though, bringing your minimum box height to 6"...you must be careful though to maintain that 1" or 1.5" waterfall drop into the box though...you need to have your residual flow line's air line mounted above the height of the emergency drain...if the air line is below the emergency level, your siphon will have trouble starting, because the residual line will go into siphon before your your main line can purge...as mentioned above, i believe your minimum box dimensions should be, as long as the company will cut it (which ideally should be the length of the tank minus two thickness' of the tank's glass minus 1/8") by however wide you need to install and remove the elbows in the bulkheads (2.25" for the length of elbow + 1/2" for the height of the bulkhead + at least 1/2" for wiggle room/ clearance for removal) by a minimum of 7" tall...

[NanoReefWanabe]

after rereading my post, i see i forgot that the amount of glass hidden behind the trim should not count in the dimensions of the box...essentially, that one inch can be removed from the dimensions of the box...so the box need only be about 6" tall, but placed at least 7" from the top of the glass, which is approximately 3/8-1/2" below the top edge of the trim...therefore, bottom of the box should be about 7.5" down from the very top edge of the trim, from there the holes should all work fine if the centre line is 4.75" from the very top of the trim.