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Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 12:46 PM
I am a pretty environmentally conscious person for the longest time I would not do saltwater tanks because I thought they were a sin to the inviorment and the kind of are but then I decided to do a reef with zoathids peppermint shrimps and damsel blue noes and other CBB fish with my only sin fish being a couple of tangs just to help out with grazing.

Although its quite hard I have seen it done before and i just wondered about your thoughts on converting african cichlids to saltwater

Africans were the only fish I had for a while and I've really grown to love them and am trying really hard so that I can see my deep water Electra hap swimming next to my electric blue kupang damsels:idea:

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 12:48 PM
Do u think that Africans would b reef safe

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 01:25 PM
Do you think they would bother coral or inverts or both

Allmost
07/08/2013, 01:35 PM
so you want a reef tank, with cichlids ?

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 05:03 PM
It would be cool to try something new ya

Timfish
07/08/2013, 05:28 PM
It's sad what people will do to animals to get a little attention.

bnumair
07/08/2013, 07:09 PM
u are an environmentally conscious person and consider a reef tank sin to environment...
but ur not environmentally conscious person when u remove cichlids from their natural environment and place them in saltwater to kill them over time.
u have re-defined the word environmentally conscious to me.
good luck

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:15 PM
Well u obviously don't realize african cichlids are commonly captive bred all over the world and having a few die isn't a huge deal

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:17 PM
I never said reefs were a sin I said I have enviormetally unfriendly fish like tangs and from Protecting our inviorment standpoint are a sin


I love reefs :)

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:18 PM
Well so far all 3 of my test cichlids are up to near saltwater and still doing perfectly fine

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:23 PM
Ya it's sad what people do to animals to get attention like catch millions of ocean fish that have populations in trouble and ship them to a differnt country just to have half die during shipping and holding

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:24 PM
I know all kinds of fish guys and they have told me how bad the death tolls are to saltwater fish and I work partime in a fish store so I know

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:30 PM
I feel that displayl only tanks with big angelfish triggers lions a wrasses groupers nd other huge show fish are compley I unnessasary

U can do a african cichlid show tank to save the inviorment and still have a beutiful show tank

bnumair
07/08/2013, 07:30 PM
so ur 16 yrs old? no wonder. i am out
good luck with ur science projects and
yes maybe killing a few fish intentionally to u is not a big deal but it totally goes against this website, mine and my fellow reefers efforts and RC staff.
i am sure none of us want to see a fish die due to our deliberate actions.

Quirkyeyes
07/08/2013, 07:31 PM
#11 @ timfish

tmz
07/09/2013, 12:00 AM
I'd encourage you to research the Chiclids before deciding to drop one in a saltwater tank.
Very few of the 3000 or so species of these fish live in brackish water,less in hyper saline environments but some do at least for periods of time. They are in the same group of fishes as damsels ,( labroidae). So, if you want to try to acclimate one to a typical reef tank salinity of around 1.025/6 be sure you pick one that currently lives in a higher saline environment;;most of them don't.
Some folks acclimate mollies to reef tanks with a benefit as algae eaters. Chiclids are pretty good herbivores too.
I would note than none exist in Island lakes except for some in Cuba. This tells me that they haven't adapted well to Ocean environments throughout their evolution or you'd find some on many Islands. So, I'm not sanguine about the idea of finding some that will live for very in a reef tank. But it's an interesting thought to me. They do seem to require higher alkalinity and pH than many freshwater species.

There are poor practices in the hobby for commercial interests or just lazy and/ or impetuous husbandry.This often results in including unnecessary carnage. Many folks on Reef Central are committed to improving the care animals receive and sharing information and experience to help .

I hope you stay with this hobby ,learn new things and keep great aquariums in the future. I do not personally consider the loss of any fish or other animal in my care "no big deal" btw. It takes a lot of effort and learning for success in this hobby but it' a rewarding journey.

billsreef
07/09/2013, 05:50 AM
Well u obviously don't realize african cichlids are commonly captive bred all over the world and having a few die isn't a huge deal

While captive bred fish dieing isn't a big deal from an ecological point of view...unless you start factoring in the resources to breed and grow them, like electric, food, shipping, etc. Also there is that idea of personal responsibility towards the live animals in your care, or at least there should be...

Ya it's sad what people do to animals to get attention like

Like trying to make FW fish turn into a SW fish despite the fact there are substantial biological differences that enable one species to live in FW vs SW that don't come about just because you want them to.

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:33 AM
No I am going to slowly acclimate it not just through it in there I might not explain myself very well but I know my stuff if I see the african cichlids starting to have trouble with the saltwater than I will just slowly acclimate them back to freshwater and keep them in my freshwater turtles tank

billsreef
07/09/2013, 06:36 AM
Slow acclimation does not change the fact that the cichlids are not biologically equipped to be SW fish. It has to do with fundamental biological differences, primarily in the kidneys and gills. Doesn't matter how fast or how slow you acclimate them, that just won't change.

[chimp]

pmcarbrey
07/09/2013, 06:44 AM
No I am going to slowly acclimate it not just through it in there I might not explain myself very well but I know my stuff if I see the african cichlids starting to have trouble with the saltwater than I will just slowly acclimate them back to freshwater and keep them in my freshwater turtles tank

I'm sorry but you very obviously do not ""know your stuff".

First off: it's spelled environment, if you want someone to read and respect your posts spell check them.


Second: African cichlids will NOT be able to osmoregulate in salt water. Given enough time the salt will kill them due to the massive amounts of energy their bodies will be using to purge the salt from their system.

Third: you're environmentally conscious? But killing a few cichlids just because you're curious and think that they'd look pretty in a salt tank? SO responsible and conscientious.

Fourth: I OWN a fish store. Stop acting like you know everything. If you're responsible and organize shipments well and have a quick turnover the MOST death you will see is maybe 10%; whereas with your little "experiment" here you will have a 100% mortality rate.


Fifth: just figured I'd leave this here: Cruelty to animals, also called animal abuse or animal neglect, is the human infliction of suffering or harm upon non-human animals, for purposes other than self-defense or survival. More narrowly, it can be harm for specific gain, such as killing animals for food or for their fur, although opinions differ with respect to the method of slaughter. It usually encompasses inflicting harm for personal amusement

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:46 AM
@ bnumair

first of all I'm not doing Seience experiments I am a responsible fish owner who has very few fish die I know a lot but don't have a lot of experience and I am only gonna learn by trying things myself and sometimes things die that way I would never deliberately kill an animal I am devoted to my hobyys and I have chameleons some of the most time devoting creatures out there right next to my reef i have tried converting things like puffers before and it hasn't always worked out and I'm put them back in fresh water and they were fine I'm guessing if you act like this much of an *** all the time as a business owner that you must not make many sales or have many employees ( at least ones who respect you)

pmcarbrey
07/09/2013, 06:47 AM
@ bnumair

first of all I'm not doing Seience experiments I am a responsible fish owner who has very few fish die I know a lot but don't have a lot of experience and I am only gonna learn by trying things myself and sometimes things die that way I would never deliberately kill an animal I am devoted to my hobyys and I have chameleons some of the most time devoting creatures out there right next to my reef i have tried converting things like puffers before and it hasn't always worked out and I'm put them back in fresh water and they were fine I'm guessing if you act like this much of an *** all the time as a business owner that you must not make many sales or have many employees ( at least ones who respect you)

I have an idea! Put a chameleon in the tank! You can have a reef chameleon!

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:52 AM
Dude I have literally seen people's tanks with with cichlids and saltwater angel fish together it's hard but it can work I'm talking about Africans and my local store even has em in super high brackish water I think the limits can b pushed a little farther than that and if they can't then ill just accept it for the time being put the fish in a differnt tank and move on

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:53 AM
Ok sure sounds like a good idea

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:54 AM
It's the point that I'm responsible and I know how to take care of things the right way

pmcarbrey
07/09/2013, 06:56 AM
Dude I have literally seen people's tanks with with cichlids and saltwater angel fish together it's hard but it can work I'm talking about Africans and my local store even has em in super high brackish water I think the limits can b pushed a little farther than that and if they can't then ill just accept it for the time being put the fish in a differnt tank and move on

Short term survival is no indication of success, and once again, this little "experiment" of yours is completely unethical.

pmcarbrey
07/09/2013, 06:56 AM
It's the point that I'm responsible and I know how to take care of things the right way

Obviously not.

heatdissipation
07/09/2013, 06:56 AM
This whole thing is totally opposite of what this club and members represent. I crushed a snail the other day while removing my canopy and I felt terrible about it. I feel that trying to acclimate cichlids into saltwater is akin to trying to acclimate you to breathing CO2. It just doesn't work. I have a 75 gallon cichlid tank also and it looks pretty good just as it is. Ugh!!

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:57 AM
Well I guess u get a thrill out of owning a fish store and having all those fish die each month must get some amusement out of that

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 06:59 AM
Listen we. All obviously have differnt opinions on this topic so I'm gonna just drop it

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 07:23 AM
But hey look up African cichlids living in a saltwater tank on YouTube and watch the video by Rossf12 and you'll see wat I'm talking about

leveldrummer
07/09/2013, 07:27 AM
Dude I have literally seen people's tanks with with cichlids and saltwater angel fish together it's hard but it can work I'm talking about Africans and my local store even has em in super high brackish water I think the limits can b pushed a little farther than that and if they can't then ill just accept it for the time being put the fish in a differnt tank and move on

Where are these tanks? show me some pictures.

at one point your saying this can be done and youve seen tanks with cichlids and angels kept together, then you immediately say youve seen them in brackish water and you "think" it can be pushed further? :hammer:

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 07:38 AM
No like I'm saying I think In a sarcastic tone if you can understand that

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 07:39 AM
Check out that vedio people

leveldrummer
07/09/2013, 07:39 AM
No like I'm saying I think In a sarcastic tone if you can understand that

Show us pictures of these tanks you have seen with cichlids swimming around with saltwater angel fish.

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 07:40 AM
I don't want to join a photo sharing website is there any other way I can get these pictures on this forum.

I'm using an iPhone for all of these post can I take right from my photos on my phone

jimmyj7090
07/09/2013, 07:45 AM
Listen we. All obviously have differnt opinions on this topic so I'm gonna just drop it

OMG, a period !

KafudaFish
07/09/2013, 08:17 AM
But hey look up African cichlids living in a saltwater tank on YouTube and watch the video by Rossf12 and you'll see wat I'm talking about

These people who make these videos are why others believe that the hobby is anti-environment and do not care about the welfare of the livestock based upon poor husbandry techniques. How long was this tank set up? Was it just for the video? This is on the level of keeping a dog in a crate 24 x 7. Sure the animal can survive but for how long?

This is why some people believe that the hobby should be illegal.

Honestly with your mind set, this hobby really is not for you but maybe in a few years when you can comprehend the science behind the hobby and you could try again. Several people have tried to explain fish physiology to you but you have decided to ignore it because you have "researched" it. Watching a video or a tv program is not research. Every month, tens of thousands of peer-reviewed articles are published and no one can keep up with all of it.

You claim that that you are offended at what others do to these fish yet everything you have written puts you in the same group. You claim to be knowledgeable yet most of what you have written is wrong and based upon emotion instead of science.

I am not attacking you, I am just pointing out that you need to slow down and stop acting like you know more than others who have been doing this longer than you have been alive and do this for a living in one capacity or another. The only reason others have taken time to reply to you is because of the livestock you seem to have little to no regard for and will pay the price.

I hope that you become open minded to what others have tried to explain to you; not because you would be wasting your time and money, rather the livestock will pay the ultimate price.

So which road are you going to take?


I wish you luck.

jimmyj7090
07/09/2013, 08:34 AM
I've been considering acclimating myself to saltwater, I know it's possible, I've seen it (waterworld).



Look v
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bridge_of_Angels.jpg

And then v
http://www.wendys.com/en-us/hamburgers/jr-cheeseburger

Hello!
http://www.characterink.com/2012/03/25/troll/

larcomak11
07/09/2013, 08:41 AM
Well so far all 3 of my test cichlids are up to near saltwater and still doing perfectly fine


No I am going to slowly acclimate it not just through it in there I might not explain myself very well but I know my stuff if I see the african cichlids starting to have trouble with the saltwater than I will just slowly acclimate them back to freshwater and keep them in my freshwater turtles tank


So you acclimated them to almost full saltwater within the 7 hrs of your first post??? Or you are acclimating them over time?? Don't drink and post sir. Regardless I personally think its a terrible idea

Alexraptor
07/09/2013, 08:46 AM
This guys activities strike me very much as a "Troll"
No serious aquarist will sign up on a forum, and bash fellow aquarists and the hobby as a whole with his very first post.
And this thread.....well it speaks for itself.

DerekFF
07/09/2013, 08:46 AM
I'm sorry but you very obviously do not ""know your stuff".

First off: it's spelled environment, if you want someone to read and respect your posts spell check them.


Second: African cichlids will NOT be able to osmoregulate in salt water. Given enough time the salt will kill them due to the massive amounts of energy their bodies will be using to purge the salt from their system.

+1 Also I know this isn't an English class or anything, but quirky your spelling is atrocious. I'll bite my tongue from any further slamming of your intellectual capacity.

DerekFF
07/09/2013, 09:35 AM
This guys activities strike me very much as a "Troll"
No serious aquarist will sign up on a forum, and bash fellow aquarists and the hobby as a whole with his very first post.
And this thread.....well it speaks for itself.

Sadly though......this person shows the thought process of our next generation. Troll or not this is the future of America.

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:43 AM
A bright future for the USA :)

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:45 AM
I named my self quirky eyes after the way my chameleons eyes stare at me all weird

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:46 AM
It's hard responding to everyone at the same time on an iPhone sorry

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:47 AM
I'm actually thinking of aclimating my DOG to saltwater to

gone fishin
07/09/2013, 09:47 AM
A bright future for the USA :)

Hardly

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:48 AM
Ya I guess my thoughts arnt very clear anyway at this point in the thread I'm just screwing around

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:49 AM
You don think there's a bright future ahead of us

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:49 AM
My life in general makes no sense

gone fishin
07/09/2013, 09:52 AM
You don think there's a bright future ahead of us

The UA prevents me from adequately expressing my thoughts on this subject as it relates to this thread or others that you have started. But, in a word No

Quirkyeyes
07/09/2013, 09:57 AM
Are u sure ur not from Britian most people I know think America's future is shining super bright

gone fishin
07/09/2013, 10:03 AM
I am quite certain I am not from Britain. As I stated previously the UA prevents a more in depth discussion.

billsreef
07/09/2013, 10:16 AM
Short term survival is no indication of success, and once again, this little "experiment" of yours is completely unethical.

Exactly. There are long term consequences as well, which are being ignored.

I've been considering acclimating myself to saltwater, I know it's possible, I've seen it (waterworld).

I'm as acclimated to saltwater as a human can be...see picture of me to the left :D

tmz
07/09/2013, 11:04 AM
I think you are wasting everyone's time with junk mail and nothing of any real value.

tmz
07/09/2013, 11:16 AM
Sadly though......this person shows the thought process of our next generation. Troll or not this is the future of America.

I disagree. This is not a generational. issue. There are many other young people who could serve as solid representatives of the next generation. Just as there are some oldtimers who are windbags.

The thread has degraded to a personality fest mainly because there isn't much useful infromation in it. Young or old, you can't walk into a room ,insult everyone ,spew opinions based on little information and expect hugs and kisses no matter how young or old you are. It's called common courtesy.