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View Full Version : Do MANGROVES use up you calcium?


Green_Lionfish
07/26/2013, 04:57 PM
I was thinking to have magroves in my Macroalgae/Refugium tank. I thought I read an article somewhere that says they actually use up your calcium. Is this true?

Thanks

Plantbrain
07/26/2013, 11:28 PM
Not much, they are slower growing. They do use some, but........

CoralReef Ph.D
07/27/2013, 06:43 AM
Magnesium

Green_Lionfish
07/27/2013, 10:55 PM
Not much, they are slower growing. They do use some, but........

Thanks.

Magnesium

You're saying that it's using up a lot of magnesium?

xxvietxjustinxx
07/27/2013, 11:08 PM
They use magnesium

Green_Lionfish
07/28/2013, 12:15 AM
They use magnesium

Is it to the point where they might change the magnesium level?

Plantbrain
07/28/2013, 10:50 PM
Is it to the point where they might change the magnesium level?

Some hobbyist have implied this, but I've not read where they offered any quantification for support. Eg, drops from say 1300 to 1100 ppm.
I suppose if you never do water changes, then sure.

Then you need to follow up and do the dry weight tissue analysis for leaves to see if the mangrove kept this Mg in the leaf tissue(or root, or trunk etc)
Otherwise, you cannot say much. A little correlation, but not much else.

If hobbyists say/suggest it drops, they need to say HOW MUCH.

Randy did, but not directly, still, the excretion suggest it's not a way to remove a lot of Mg from the tank, this means the plant itself would have to accumulate and store a lot of Mg, which is not exactly in the plant's best interest.

http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic2750.html

I've done ample dry weight tissue analysis and fertilization on aquatic plants for a long time now.

While useful for some things in aquariums, I think just plain decent common sense things like dosing, water changes, good horticulture etc, cannot be over emphasized. I suppose you could measure and dose say 10 ppm a week of Mg, no way that any plant would require this much for growth, maybe if you stuffed a massive tree in a tiny tank, but the relative biomass to most reefs and marine tank's volumes are very small to the mangroves kept.

Your Byropsis might die back though.

Still, it'd take some time to deplete 100 ppm worth of Mg.
Hopefully most would do a few partial water changes over 10-20 weeks.
I think you'd have to try in most cases to deplete the Mg and pack a lot of trees into a small space.

I think using say aquarium water from a freshwater planted tank or fish only tank and spraying the mangroves every day would help. I do this for Bonsai trees as well.

Green_Lionfish
07/30/2013, 05:30 PM
Thank you for your VERY informative reply Plantbrain. I really appreciate it. Well, I have a 180g DT, 40g sump, 50g Refugium. I would like to try Mangroves. So if I do about 50g water change every 2 weeks, it would be sufficient to replace the Mg level?

I was also wondering as for the Nitrate. My tank has fairly low Nitrate lvl, which is about 5ppm. Would Mangroves survive? or do i even need them them at all?

Thanks.



Some hobbyist have implied this, but I've not read where they offered any quantification for support. Eg, drops from say 1300 to 1100 ppm.
I suppose if you never do water changes, then sure.

Then you need to follow up and do the dry weight tissue analysis for leaves to see if the mangrove kept this Mg in the leaf tissue(or root, or trunk etc)
Otherwise, you cannot say much. A little correlation, but not much else.

If hobbyists say/suggest it drops, they need to say HOW MUCH.

Randy did, but not directly, still, the excretion suggest it's not a way to remove a lot of Mg from the tank, this means the plant itself would have to accumulate and store a lot of Mg, which is not exactly in the plant's best interest.

http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic2750.html

I've done ample dry weight tissue analysis and fertilization on aquatic plants for a long time now.

While useful for some things in aquariums, I think just plain decent common sense things like dosing, water changes, good horticulture etc, cannot be over emphasized. I suppose you could measure and dose say 10 ppm a week of Mg, no way that any plant would require this much for growth, maybe if you stuffed a massive tree in a tiny tank, but the relative biomass to most reefs and marine tank's volumes are very small to the mangroves kept.

Your Byropsis might die back though.

Still, it'd take some time to deplete 100 ppm worth of Mg.
Hopefully most would do a few partial water changes over 10-20 weeks.
I think you'd have to try in most cases to deplete the Mg and pack a lot of trees into a small space.

I think using say aquarium water from a freshwater planted tank or fish only tank and spraying the mangroves every day would help. I do this for Bonsai trees as well.

Plantbrain
07/30/2013, 05:50 PM
This would be based on an infinite series math function if you wanted to predict the outcome.

A simple way to think about it: If you add say 50 ppm a week, and do 50% water changes a week, you CANNOT ever exceed 2x that ppm value, or, 100 ppm.

Say you dose 50 ppm every 2 weeks and do 50% water change every 2 weeks, say thing.

Say you do 25% water changes every 2 weeks and dose 50 ppm each 2 week? Max possible build up is about 200 ppm "extra".

This is a max upper limit assuming no uptake by the livestock, removal from filter cleaning, salt creep, wipe downs, plant/algae, coral uptake etc.

Say you assume that the plants take up 25%, then you you will only build up to a max of 150 ppm.

Say 50% uptake? 100ppm.

90% ?
You'll go from about 18 ppm to about 57 ppm over the 2 week ranges.

And so on.

Note, this is just a dosing example of 50 ppm of Mg.
So you could dose that, but even if the Mangroves used up say 10 ppm a week, a lot I would think.........it'd take a lot more uptake to start making it a problem.

While I do not have real ppm's and dry weight analysis using hydroponic systems to measure this, realistically I ain't gonna either:)
I'd need more evidence than heresay on the internet based on what I know about Mg demand and uptake in plants, particularly slow growing trees.

That said, would do little harm to dose a little added Mg I would think.
So dosing say 10 ppm a week would seem okay, pose no risk.

Easy to add some source of cheap Mg into various solutions most dose anyhow. I think adding some Osomcoat in a gel cap, Jobes plant stick etc to the root zone after about 4-6 months might be wiser than playing with Mg.
Misting the leaves etc.
The Basics.