How do you judge the age of a reef tank?

[scolley]

How do you determine the age of a reef tank?

The obvious answer would seem to be "when water and rock went into the empty aquarium". But what if there is a crash? How bad does the crash have to be to reset the clock on tank age?

And what about people that start with fish-only, then add live rock (for a FOWLR), and then add coral someday? When did that reef start? With the rock? The coral?

And finally, is it actually that there are two questions that need to be answered? That we should talk about the age of the tank and the age of the reef as two different things? An example is whole tank migrations - where most (if not all) of the inhabitants of the old tank (fish, inverts, coral, live rock, sand) are moved to a new tank. Is that "new", or merely new setting for the old reef? Or maybe that's a new tank, but an old reef...

It's a complicated question, and I'm hoping to stimulate discussion. But I do hope to learn what criteria the community uses to determine the age of a reef tank. Depending the criteria used, mine could be 1.5, 2, or 4+ years old. I'd love to know which it is.

Thanks for your input. :)

[leveldrummer]

when speaking about age, its not as simple as just saying "my tank is 4 years old"

if you had a crash, or moved tanks, you should mention these things.

if someone asks "how old is your tank"

I would say "Ive had this setup going since 2006, it was originally setup as a 60 gallon after 2 years, i moved over to a 120 gallon, then in 2010 i had a crash that killed off all coral and a few fish, but i didnt replace the live rock or start over"

something along those lines will give a much better understanding about the history of a tank and how long its been up and going. Its not just as simple as saying some random number of years from any specific point.

[scolley]

Thanks for the feedback. I'd certainly not tell someone my tank was 4 years old, but neglect to mention a semi-crash 2 and a half years ago, or the migration into a new tank 1 and a half years ago. That would be dishonest. However...

My interest in this question is academic. We - as reefers - put a lot of stock in the age of a reef. Particularly when reefs get 5+ years old. 10+ is ancient. So... I'd love to know what that 10+ really means to most people. 10+ years of that reef in that aquarium? Continuous biota, even if migrated from one physical aquarium to another? And does 10+ years mean there have been no events that (some might feel) should reset the clock - like a significant aquascaping change or a crash of some form?

[Touring]

Sounds like a topic in my philosophy class lol.


The age would then be determined when the first thought was perceived.

[leveldrummer]

Thanks for the feedback. I'd certainly not tell someone my tank was 4 years old, but neglect to mention a semi-crash 2 and a half years ago, or the migration into a new tank 1 and a half years ago. That would be dishonest. However...

My interest in this question is academic. We - as reefers - put a lot of stock in the age of a reef. Particularly when reefs get 5+ years old. 10+ is ancient. So... I'd love to know what that 10+ really means to most people. 10+ years of that reef in that aquarium? Continuous biota, even if migrated from one physical aquarium to another? And does 10+ years mean there have been no events that (some might feel) should reset the clock - like a significant aquascaping change or a crash of some form?

If someone told me their reef was 10 years old, I would assume they mean in the current setup, without any large changes that would "reset" the clock as you put it. just as you mentioned that you wouldnt tell someone your tank is 4 years old without telling them about your crash 2 years ago, I would hold everyone to that trust, I would assume your tank is 10 years old if you say it is.

I would not accept that you call your tank 10 years old if this current tank is 3 months old but you have transfered 1 pound of live rock from your original source tank from 10 years ago.

Speaking of the age of a "tank" is rather difficult and somewhat pointless, the age is better determined by the success of a colony of coral, or the age of a fish, keeping one tank up and running for ever isnt that difficult if your constantly swapping out coral frags and fish, rescaping and removing or introducing live rock. etc.

[scolley]

I would not accept that you call your tank 10 years old if this current tank is 3 months old but you have transfered 1 pound of live rock from your original source tank from 10 years ago.Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more clear about transferring the biota. I was not referring to 1 pound of live rock. I was referring to EVERYTHING. That happens all the time... someone has a 55g reef, buys a 110, fills it with saltwater, adds some additional sand and cured rock, and mover EVERYTHING in the 55g to the 110g. To my mind, that's the same reef biologically. But I'm soliciting your opinions...

Sounds like a topic in my philosophy class lol.Indeed.

I've had two events in my reef that could impact age. Most recently - moving the reef wholesale into a new aquarium. As stated above, I would be inclined to ignore that normally (not reset the clock), EXCEPT that I also did a major rework of the aquascape. Aesthetically that is a new reef. Biologically it is not. So maybe age then becomes context sensitive.

Further back I had a partial crash, not caused by anything wrong in the system, but a stupid mistake on my part. So the question becomes, how big does the crash have to be to reset the clock? In my case - overnight - I lost almost all SPS, about half my LPS, all mini-brittle stars, urchins, snails and (from what I could tell) pods. But all softies, coraline algae, shrimp, fish, hermits, serpent stars, a few LPS – and one intrepid little acro – remained. I had to reset the pod, mini-brittle star, and stony coral populations.

So while much of the life in the biota goes back four years, IMO that event a significant portion of the biota was refreshed. So that would mean that any honest discussion of the age of my tank would take that as the starting point, even if many inhabitants had been there longer. I guess it's kind of a holistic approach - the whole biota does not extend past that event, so that event should define the age.

My two cents. :)

[Palting]

I started my newbie tank, got Ich after several months, then started a "new" tank with completely new equipment but using the rock/coral/fish from the old tank. After proper treatment, of course. So, to be precise, it means that the current tank is 3 years and 5 months old, but the rocks, some coral and most of the fish are several months older than that. However, when asked or when I date the reef, I date it at the new tank age, 3 years and 5 months currently. It's just a lot simpler that way.

I would follow the same idea if this tank crashed and had to start anew. That definitely would reset the clock/calendar' along the same lines mentioned by scolley.

However, if I moved the tank and all it's contents to another house, and providing that it did not crash, I would use the same old date/age and not reset it.

[dkeller_nc]

Ha! This is like the old woodworker's joke:

"I still have my great-great-grandfather's axe. The handle has been replaced three times and the head has been replaced twice." :)

[Palting]

ha! This is like the old woodworker's joke:

"i still have my great-great-grandfather's axe. The handle has been replaced three times and the head has been replaced twice." :)

lol!!!

[leveldrummer]

Ha! This is like the old woodworker's joke:

"I still have my great-great-grandfather's axe. The handle has been replaced three times and the head has been replaced twice." :)

:beer:

[ca1ore]

While the question might be largely an academic one, it is also worth considering as an input into when to start to be concerned about 'old tank syndrome'. I tend to view the age of any particular tank as being from the point that tank was originally setup - regardless of where the rock or fish came from (either a previous tank of mine, from another reefer, from the LFS, etc.). If something happens that requires a tank be completely dismantled and rebuilt, then that would 'reset' the clock. But any less extreme 'crash' would not.

To me, the age of a tank as a useful input into the potential for old tank syndrome comes from two perspectives: one, the inevitable build up of wastes, detritus and toxins; and two, the equally inevitable loss of bio-diversity. The former can be slowed by diligent husbandry practices; the latter through periodic additions of new (but cured) live rock, clean-up-crews, detritivore kits, etc. In my experience, the buildup of bad stuff is the bigger problem.

The longest I ever had a reef tank in continuous operation was 6 years. House moves and the inevitable 'upgrades' have, I think, prevented me from experiencing 'old tank syndrome' personally. A buddy of mine recently completely redid his tank after almost 15 years, feeling that it had lost something. He was, and is, far more disciplined with regular maintenance than I, but is was remarkable how much gunk had built up inside his rockwork.

Not sure if that was where the OP was headed with the original question - but my 2 cents anyhow :)

[scolley]

Not sure if that was where the OP was headed with the original question - but my 2 cents anyhow :)Everyone's contributions have - IMO - been good so far. Thank you! That's not to say I agree, or disagree with any point in particular. I was trying to stimulate conversation... and hopefully not spend too much time on my own opinions. For it's the thinking of the community that I'm soliciting. ;)

[Sn8kbyt]

I think age is not as relevant as history IMO. Certainly as a hobbyist at the very least it is not as interesting.

[leveldrummer]

I think age is not as relevant as history IMO. Certainly as a hobbyist at the very least it is not as interesting.

i agree with this 100%, if we are going on age alone, my tank is probably around 20,000 years old or more.

going on history, my rock was born as coral skeletons on a reef somewhere, that as the oceans lowered and the tectonic plates shiften, my rock dried up and was buried somewhere in the middle of florida, to be discovered years later by some dude named marco, who mined the rock and shipped it too me last year.:rollface:

[Anemone]

Count the gray hairs on the reefer's head - they're like rings on a tree...

:D

Kevin