Tunze Osmolator Extension?

[theyangman]

I didn't realize that the cords and pump were so short on this unit.

My RO/DI reservoir is about 20 feet from from my sump, and I was hoping that I could solder on two wires to extend the wires from the pump to the controller all the way to my fish room. I would also use longer air hose tubing to reach the sump. The two wires are already pre stripped so they can fit into the controller plugs, and I could solder them longer...

Can this be safely done without voiding warranty or affecting performance? Any tips?

[rvitko]

Rather than soldering I would just use a european terminal connector and add an extension. This way it can be easily undone. From past experience extensions while possible add complexity and should be able to be easily undone for troubleshooting. Keep in mind that if you reservoir is taller than your sump, water will siphon after the pump shuts off. You must be absolutely certain that the water level in the reservoir is below the end point of the hose and it may be better to run to the tank for this reason. It can also be difficult for the pump to prime with a very long run so you will want to monitor this when the reservoir is refilled if the pump ever runs dry. Be very careful that the connections of the pump wire do not get wet, a short here can cause issues and that is the main danger of an extension.

[theyangman]

Rather than soldering I would just use a european terminal connector and add an extension. This way it can be easily undone. From past experience extensions while possible add complexity and should be able to be easily undone for troubleshooting.

Ok, that part makes sense. I can use a quick disconnect plug to make sure I can disassemble it easily and quickly for any repairs if necessary.

Keep in mind that if you reservoir is taller than your sump, water will siphon after the pump shuts off. You must be absolutely certain that the water level in the reservoir is below the end point of the hose and it may be better to run to the tank for this reason. It can also be difficult for the pump to prime with a very long run so you will want to monitor this when the reservoir is refilled if the pump ever runs dry. Be very careful that the connections of the pump wire do not get wet, a short here can cause issues and that is the main danger of an extension.

The reservoir is a 65 gallon water storage container. It will never be run dry as it almost always has a constant level or water in it. As for back siphon, the osmolator hose is a few inches above the water line as a precaution against back siphoning already. I don't want to leave it submerged in the sump just in case. Is that what you are refering too? Also I would make 100% sure that the wire extension connection would obviously never get wet.

[rvitko]

Not a back siphon but a forward siphon which sounds like a guaranteed issue since a 65 gallon reservoir is usually about 3ft high and most sumps are 18" high. In this case 18" of water will be able to siphon after the pump shuts off. If the water level in the reservoir is above the terminus of the hose, it will siphon. Assuming your tank is at least 3ft high, securing the hose to the tank will solve this problem but I am very leary of huge reservoirs. I consider the reservoir volume the 3rd and final safety and 65 gallons is enough to wipe out your tank and cause problems so I would personally seek to limit that to 10 or so, just a 2 week supply. To me the smart money is on smaller reservoirs and manually refilling them, too much automation tends to lead to more possibilities of failure.

[theyangman]

Not a back siphon but a forward siphon which sounds like a guaranteed issue since a 65 gallon reservoir is usually about 3ft high and most sumps are 18" high. In this case 18" of water will be able to siphon after the pump shuts off. If the water level in the reservoir is above the terminus of the hose, it will siphon. Assuming your tank is at least 3ft high, securing the hose to the tank will solve this problem but I am very leary of huge reservoirs. I consider the reservoir volume the 3rd and final safety and 65 gallons is enough to wipe out your tank and cause problems so I would personally seek to limit that to 10 or so, just a 2 week supply. To me the smart money is on smaller reservoirs and manually refilling them, too much automation tends to lead to more possibilities of failure.

So it would be better if the end of the hose was actually on the bottom of the sump?

ie: relatively the same height as where the pump sits in my reservoir tank?

[rvitko]

No, the water will still siphon, think of it like a barometer, it is atmospheric pressure/gravity pushing the water down that is causing it to flow, the only way you can defeat a siphon is to have a reservoir that is shorter or end the hose up higher. Their is no other solution. Wikipedia has a pretty thorough explanation.

[theyangman]

No, the water will still siphon, think of it like a barometer, it is atmospheric pressure/gravity pushing the water down that is causing it to flow, the only way you can defeat a siphon is to have a reservoir that is shorter or end the hose up higher. Their is no other solution. Wikipedia has a pretty thorough explanation.

So if the water level in my reservoir was LOWER than the water level in my sump (assuming they are both on the same level and flat) would work?

ie: Water level in my sump is 12" and water level in my reservoir is at 8"?

OR:

if the water outlet tube was raised above the water level in my reservoir?

(this is not possible as the sump is where the water level changes and not in my main tank, but just for general all around understanding purposes)

[rvitko]

If your hose is clamped to the edge of the sump, and the sump is 12" high and the reservoir had 11" of water, that would be fine. The water level in the sump does not matter. only that the hose ends higher than the level in the reservoir.

[theyangman]

perfect. Understood.

[OneStepAhead]

No, the water will still siphon, think of it like a barometer, it is atmospheric pressure/gravity pushing the water down that is causing it to flow, the only way you can defeat a siphon is to have a reservoir that is shorter or end the hose up higher. Their is no other solution. Wikipedia has a pretty thorough explanation.

Isn't the solution an air break? Or you could hook up a solenoid in line and close it when the pump goes off. Or you could use a peristaltic pump that doesn't forward or back siphon. Point is there are multiple ways to solve this, having the storage tank lower is just the easiest way.

[rvitko]

An air break would work but I would avoid over complicating it, the simplest solution is reservoir under the tank, sensors in the sump, top off hose to the tank or overflow box.

[TankRazr]

Apologies in advance for resurrecting an old thread, but this seemed like a good place to ask for clarification on this.

It seems as though the OP's question was in regards to the pump wires.

My question is.....what about extending the wires that go to the float switches. I need a few extra feet for my Tunze Osmolator "box" to reach my control panel.

Any thoughts or perspective on extending these wires a few feet?


BTW: in regards to the person who suggested a solenoid valve. I happened to find 110v 1/4 solenoids on Amazon for about $30 at the time of this writing. I was picking one up for another aspect of my install, and to be controlled by the Apex, but my put one on the RODI resevoir fill line as well just as a percaution.

[rvitko]

I would not extend them, the optic sensor uses 4 wires, and they are very small, about the diameter of phone wires. The splice tends to be difficult to make attractive (staggering) and it adds another potential failure point.

My issue with solenoids is that they just tend to be one of the more failure prone electro/mechanical objects. If you think back on your life with machines, starter motors almost never die, it is usually the starter solenoid, same with the latching mechanism on front loading washers and driers. They typically all fail for the same reason, with age and accumulation of debris, they seize and the coil overheats and burns out. They can last for years but when they fail, if unlimited water is available, it is a big risk, especially with water where any debris or lime may build up and seize the piston. In regards to the osmolator, it send 11V at 1200mA to the pump so unless the switched socket is added, a low voltage solenoid must be used. If I were to use a solenoid with the osmolator it would be with the knowledge that none of the osmolators safeties can stop a flood if the valve sticks open and I would only do so with a back up mechanical float at the end of the water line which will float and close off the entry of water and even then, a floor drain or drain pan would be a very good idea.