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View Full Version : Trying to do the right thing and be totaly wrong about it!


Mudbeaver
08/08/2013, 06:35 AM
I'm writting this because i was trying to do the right thing and i was being totaly wrong about it and could of killed my fish in the process.

Long story short; i started my quarantine tank before the main tank arrive, and i was going to keep it running all the time a permanent QT or hospital tank as they say for my fish. And by pure coinsidence i said that to my LFS guy.

WRONG he said. NEVER have a permanent Hospital tank. Always have a dry QT ready to use your fish tank water for treatment . The suddent change from one specific environment to a new one for a weak fish will kill him, he must stay with the same parameters, even if the medium is contaminated. Then you do what you have to do in that new tank, water changes, medication and such but don't change his water, stress might kill him.

When i heard that , i considered who was giving me the advice; compare to what i had heard and red on countless thread here and on other site. The guy has a business for 30 years of experiences......he sells fishes for a living,and its a good clean store 25-30 tanks. I've never seen any of your tanks and seen anybodies accomplishement on the net. So the reasoning is simple. When taking advice or reading stuff always CROSS refference your sources, the more sources that says the same thing the better. I was so sure about my strategy and we all are.Its better to look stupid asking a question than making a costly and foolish mistake . Besides seeking knowledge is never stupid acting without is.

So that was my almost stupid mistake anybody else almost made one???lol:spin2:

jerpa
08/08/2013, 06:51 AM
Set up a permanent QT with display tank water. Water changes from the display go to the QT then QT change water goes out the window, or down the drain.

30 years owning a fish store doesn't always mean much. There is a very well established saltwater store near me. They have nice fish and a few large show tanks. They still "educate" their customers on the evil's of bristleworms. You need to trap them all because otherwise they will consume your live rock.

Dapg8gt
08/08/2013, 07:01 AM
+1^^^^

Keeping it running isn't 100% necessary but it's an easy way to be prepared and just a large water change away from stable and matching parameters. Keeping a filter sponge or bag of rubble for the qt in the sump of the DT is a good thing either way you choose.

Mudbeaver
08/08/2013, 07:03 AM
Set up a permanent QT with display tank water. Water changes from the display go to the QT then QT change water goes out the window, or down the drain.

30 years owning a fish store doesn't always mean much. There is a very well established saltwater store near me. They have nice fish and a few large show tanks. They still "educate" their customers on the evil's of bristleworms. You need to trap them all because otherwise they will consume your live rock.


LOL LOL you got to be kidding me sorry man free advice like your either....30 years the keep a business afloat, keep 30 tanks clean and is able to make a living out of it; have seen probably 100 times more diseases than you and i went through economic tornadoes, and it means nothing, i wonder what your free advice is worth then, LOL LOL :blown::deadhorse1::p:lol::thumbdown:ape::wildone::facepalm:

Its funny my question was did you make a mistake , not please critisized the owner of the store that helped me and didn't sell me anything......I find your lack of humility .........i acknowledge my need to learn more and try to pass on this little learning experience of mine just in case it could help, but you come to preach me......

spieszak
08/08/2013, 07:29 AM
I think you mis-read that and took the comment poorly. Not only are there plenty of "right" ways to do things, ALL advice, regardless of who it comes from should be verified.
I think you are going to find that most folks disagree with the advice you were given from the LFS. Even the act of moving the water from a display to a qt will change the water chemistry, ph will likley rise, alk and temp will change, dissolved 02 will likely rise for a bit at least, while the other changes may be more 'permanent'. Those changes are probably no more drastic than running you QT continuously and doing your water changes on it with water from the display.

Mudbeaver
08/08/2013, 07:35 AM
I think you mis-read that and took the comment poorly. Not only are there plenty of "right" ways to do things, ALL advice, regardless of who it comes from should be verified.
I think you are going to find that most folks disagree with the advice you were given from the LFS. Even the act of moving the water from a display to a qt will change the water chemistry, ph will likley rise, alk and temp will change, dissolved 02 will likely rise for a bit at least, while the other changes may be more 'permanent'. Those changes are probably no more drastic than running you QT continuously and doing your water changes on it with water from the display.

No i didn't the man is 67 years old he use to sell me and my dads fish when i was a kid he had his business for more than 30 years now run's it with his son, and a nobody just trashes him saying its nothing and it doesn't mean nothing to own a business for 30 year do you know many people at that level that own their business for 30 years againts Walmarts and such and can live and raise family and then a big head full of hot air with no credibility says that what he told me is ****! The focus of this thread is AGAIN what mistake have you made STICK to topic if you can't move on.

leveldrummer
08/08/2013, 07:41 AM
so going by your LFS method, your going to fill a brand new dry tank up with water, then toss a sick fish into it? do you think the ammonia will start to kill the fish as the tank cycles? I agree with others that keeping a QT tank running, and using water from your DT to keep the parameters equal is the best bet. The point of a quarantine tank is to hold and treat fish BEFORE THEY EVER GET INTO YOUR DISPLAY TANK, so the store owner saying the parameters being equal really doesnt make sense. If you have a sick fish in your display tank, its already too late, why bother quarantining it? ALL the fish at that point have been exposed.

of course, I haven't kept a store going for 30 years, so my opinion is probably garbage like everyone elses on here.

spieszak
08/08/2013, 07:41 AM
The focus of this thread is AGAIN what mistake have you made STICK to topic if you can't move on.
oops, sorry, didn't realize you owned the internet. And as a side note, I hope your unverified knowledge doesn't kill fish. That's honestly all I care about.

leveldrummer
08/08/2013, 07:43 AM
No i didn't the man is 67 years old he use to sell me and my dads fish when i was a kid he had his business for more than 30 years now run's it with his son, and a nobody just trashes him saying its nothing and it doesn't mean nothing to own a business for 30 year do you know many people at that level that own their business for 30 years againts Walmarts and such and can live and raise family and then a big head full of hot air with no credibility says that what he told me is ****! The focus of this thread is AGAIN what mistake have you made STICK to topic if you can't move on.

This is a common logical fallacy called "appeal to authority"

Just because he has kept something going to 30 years does NOT mean there arent better ways to do something. Dont get so upset that people have different opinions and are offering you different advice. :beer:

jdhuyvetter
08/08/2013, 08:04 AM
This is a common logical fallacy called "appeal to authority"

Just because he has kept something going to 30 years does NOT mean there arent better ways to do something. Dont get so upset that people have different opinions and are offering you different advice. :beer:

I've always said that if you ask 10 different reefkeepers the same question, you will get at least 11 different answers!

Dapg8gt
08/08/2013, 08:27 AM
Whoa unnecessary hostile responder. There's more than one way to do it and saying the other is wrong because someone else did it this way is setting yourself up for failure. Do what suits your needs and keeps your fish safe

And you have to expect other opinions on whatever you post, it's called the Internet.

jerpa
08/08/2013, 09:00 AM
Set up a permanent QT with display tank water. Water changes from the display go to the QT then QT change water goes out the window, or down the drain.

30 years owning a fish store doesn't always mean much. There is a very well established saltwater store near me. They have nice fish and a few large show tanks. They still "educate" their customers on the evil's of bristleworms. You need to trap them all because otherwise they will consume your live rock.

The first part I underlined was merely a way to keep your QT parameters as close to the display as possible while maintaining an active biological filter. While you may choose to ignore this it may be helpful to one of the thousands of other members here.

I bolded the disclaimer in the first sentence so you would understand that I wasn't implying that all LFS's experience should be discounted.

The second part I underlined relates one of the many pieces of bad advice I have heard at an LFS near me with over 30 years of experience. There tanks are quite nice and have been featured on reef-related websites. The son who runs it grew up in the store.

I won't address any of the character judgements you have made about me but the irony is breathtaking.

Lateralus
08/26/2013, 07:22 PM
WRONG he said. NEVER have a permanent Hospital tank. Always have a dry QT ready to use your fish tank water for treatment . The suddent change from one specific environment to a new one for a weak fish will kill him, he must stay with the same parameters, even if the medium is contaminated. Then you do what you have to do in that new tank, water changes, medication and such but don't change his water, stress might kill him.

Not sure I understand MUDs need to start static based on the quote above. Isn't it basically another way to do the same thing everyone else is saying. Filling the tank up in one fel swoop with tank water or keeping the qt going with WC water seems to achieve the same goal. I think ol' dude was telling him he was going down the wrong path by setting up the qt prior to for fear of difference in perameters.

alton
08/27/2013, 05:22 AM
Your LFS is correct, not that others are incorrect but this is what I use (the largest one)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23702

Take the foam off, place it is your sump. It will collect so much bacteria you could keep a 10" fish in a QT with it and never have Ammonia issues. I do this when I bring in a new fish and setup a QT tank for 4 to 6 weeks. Afterwords wash it out with fresh water and place back into the sump for another day. I also use a power head with a poly filter pad wrapped around it with rubber bands. After several months if you do not use the foam filter take it out of your sump during a water change and rinse it aquarium water to remove detris.

Gbear
08/27/2013, 12:41 PM
Set up two tanks. One as a QT and one as a hospital tank.
That way there is twice as much to argue about.

I'm afraid that you non Canadians are not desensitized sufficiently to understand a French Canadian.

Epicreefer
08/28/2013, 12:04 AM
The over reaction by the LFS owner is probably because he took you too literal. Having a QT or hospital tank set up all the time is good but you should sterilize it between fish. Keep two sponge filters for it, one stays in the display sump cycling the other in the QT. If a fish gets sick in QT discard and bleach the system, dry and swap out for the cycled sponge filter when you refill. That way you have a biologically stable QT that doesn't transfer pathogens from one addition to the next. If you keep a QT running without fish for a long time then it is worse than a new tank, has nitrate and phosphate but no bacteria because no bioload/food. Yes I know it assumes everything making it through QT is disease free and pathogens don't transfer from display to QT and it's not perfect. Basically anything other than the fish in QT should be sterilized from one fish to the next . My honest opinion when it comes to serious disease, if it cost less than $50, flush it, $50-100 might be worth saving $100+ probably is. It sounds cruel but just getting rid of a fish can save the other 20 in the tank, personal attachment is hard to separate from logic but by definition has you make the illogical decision. The tank, time and stress will often pay for the new fish as very few ever truly get sick outside of QT. A few spots of crypt on a tang is one thing but behavior typically tells the difference from a bad day and terminally I'll.

arnoldrew
09/11/2013, 07:06 AM
LOL LOL you got to be kidding me sorry man free advice like your either....30 years the keep a business afloat, keep 30 tanks clean and is able to make a living out of it; have seen probably 100 times more diseases than you and i went through economic tornadoes, and it means nothing, i wonder what your free advice is worth then, LOL LOL :blown::deadhorse1::p:lol::thumbdown:ape::wildone::facepalm:

Its funny my question was did you make a mistake , not please critisized the owner of the store that helped me and didn't sell me anything......I find your lack of humility .........i acknowledge my need to learn more and try to pass on this little learning experience of mine just in case it could help, but you come to preach me......

No i didn't the man is 67 years old he use to sell me and my dads fish when i was a kid he had his business for more than 30 years now run's it with his son, and a nobody just trashes him saying its nothing and it doesn't mean nothing to own a business for 30 year do you know many people at that level that own their business for 30 years againts Walmarts and such and can live and raise family and then a big head full of hot air with no credibility says that what he told me is ****! The focus of this thread is AGAIN what mistake have you made STICK to topic if you can't move on.

I am, quite simply, stunned. I've been on the internet for a while now. I've frequented many boards of many different types (firearms, camping, hunting and fishing, tabletop wargaming, fishkeeping, etc.) and I'm not sure if I've ever seen a more infantile overreaction to being given honest, sincere, and reasonable advice. I guess that's all I have to say about that and AGAIN from now on I will STICK to topic. There are very few mistakes I have almost made. In fact, they are so outnumbered by the mistakes I have made that I can't really think of any.

dc
09/13/2013, 09:07 AM
I think we're done here.

FWIW LFS/pet stores don't know a lot of things. Too much to know and they're in it for the money plain and simple.