Green Mandarin Care

[35galSaltwater]

I just bought a Green Mandarin, or I think thats what it is. The fish store had only one sign on the tank for 2 types of mandarins. It's called Spotted Mandarin Goby on another webpage... However, my question is how to care for them. The fish store guy mentioned the other blue striped mandarin kind to be more difficult to keep but the green to be easy. Is that true, do I just feed regular meaty frozen diets and sea veggi's? The fish transitioned well into the new tank so far, discovering the whole tank, not very nervous, not hiding, and the other fish leaving him alone for the most part.

[RayL]

First off that's a green spotted mandarin but way more importantly they are not easy to care for. How big is your tank? How long has it been running for? What other fish are in the tank? Do you have a refugium?
These fish are very hard to keep because with very few exceptions they strictly eat copepods, and not prepared foods. Answer the 4 questions above and then we can properly answer your question

[findingnemo7]

I've owned both green mandarin and spotted mandarin (the one you have) and I have not found a difference in difficulty. However, both are very hard to keep due to the fact that almost all eat copepods (only a few actually accept frozen mysis/brine). You will be lucky if he eats frozen foods but you have to carefully observe if he accepts it or not. If he doesn't, you need a large system to grow and establish enough copepods to feed the mandarin or he will decimate the pod population in a smaller system. If you have a refugium, buy some macroalgae (for example: chaeto) and add copepods to grow/culture in your fuge. I'm just going to guess but it seems like you may have not already have an established copepod population so you better get started or he will starve. Honestly, you should only buy one with an tank that has been running for a long time and a stable and established copepod population. Since that's not the case and he's already in your tank, buy and put copepods in your tank asap. You might have to buy more because he will eat them very quickly and may not give them enough time to grow in population. Once you get enough copepods, he won't require any additional care. Good luck

[MediTank]

+10 for findingnemo..... i love these fish and the way that they look... unfortunately they attract a very diverse crowd, many of which are not suitable to care for them.... build a copepod population to feed him and you will have the roundest/most colorful fish in the ocean! good luck with him

[DragKnee]

I dont want to make assumptions, but it sounds like you're new in the hobby and therefore probably have a smaller tank. (I hope I'm wrong)

Mandarins don't digest food like normal fish, so they need to constantly eat. Getting a Mandarin to eat frozen is a blessing, but, it's hardly ever enough to sustain it for a long period of time. You would need a large refugium with rubble rock and chaeto to harvest pods for a Mandarin to successfully thrive and survive.

And no Mandarin is easier than the others

[humaguy]

mandarins need very healthy tanks with a thriving pod population...they need to eat somewhere around 100-150 pods an hour, all day log, to thrive....

[webersp]

I've had success in the past with Mandarins accepting frozen and prepared foods but it takes effort to teach them to accept it. Currently I'm struggling with a Mandarin that was accepting frozen but is being stubborn lately.

If you know anybody with an established larger tank consider giving him to them. The LFS may also take him back, but if the LFS told you they were easy to care for it will likely just end up in the hands of someone else who isn't prepared to meet the proper requirements.

[Rea17]

I've had success in the past with Mandarins accepting frozen and prepared foods but it takes effort to teach them to accept it. Currently I'm struggling with a Mandarin that was accepting frozen but is being stubborn lately.

If you know anybody with an established larger tank consider giving him to them. The LFS may also take him back, but if the LFS told you they were easy to care for it will likely just end up in the hands of someone else who isn't prepared to meet the proper requirements.

+1

Always research before you buy, and don't always take the word of an LFS employee. Their job is to sell fish, and while some stores are knowledgeable and honest, others aren't.

[35galSaltwater]

Thanks for the info!

I bought the pods today, how do I make a refugium? I have another 10 gal tank but no heater/ powerhead etc. How do you do water changes in there or you don't? I don't have the pod diet, will have to buy some. Any preferences?

The tank is running well for 1 yr with me (yrs for prior owner), it has lots of liferock, not sure if it has pods or not, I never saw any but I guess they are small. The mandarin is searching around a lot. I think she nippled on some frozen emerald food for a sec., maybe coincidence. The other 3 fish leave her alone (Blue Tang - almost 1 yr, Hawke - 2 mo, Clarkii - 1 yr but longer with last owner of my tank).

I will try my best, this fish is listed as easy to keep on most websites, only hard to feed. Maybe you guys can help me with some info on how to do the pod culturing and hopefully I can make it work. Doesn't sound like experience is needed, just the right approach ;-)

Thanks!

[webersp]

Thanks for the info!

I bought the pods today, how do I make a refugium? I have another 10 gal tank but no heater/ powerhead etc. How do you do water changes in there or you don't? I don't have the pod diet, will have to buy some. Any preferences?

The tank is running well for 1 yr with me (yrs for prior owner), it has lots of liferock, not sure if it has pods or not, I never saw any but I guess they are small. The mandarin is searching around a lot. I think she nippled on some frozen emerald food for a sec., maybe coincidence. The other 3 fish leave her alone (Blue Tang - almost 1 yr, Hawke - 2 mo, Clarkii - 1 yr but longer with last owner of my tank).

I will try my best, this fish is listed as easy to keep on most websites, only hard to feed. Maybe you guys can help me with some info on how to do the pod culturing and hopefully I can make it work. Doesn't sound like experience is needed, just the right approach ;-)

Thanks!

Ideally your refugium would be either attached to your tank as a hang on back or as a compartment in your sump. Most basic refugium designs include some LR rubble and some sort of algae. The refugium should have any sort of simple lighting that would allow the algae to grow. You're basically intentionally growing algae somewhere out of sight so that it uses up nutrients and stays out of your display tank.

Anyway, as far as the growing of the pods goes, you just throw some of a good living culture in your refugium and they'll breed there. If it were attached to your sump or were a HOB refugium, the pumps would theoretically grab some copepods and shoot them into the DT for your mandarin to eat. Alternatively you can set up your 10 gallon tank separately and just add some LR rubble and grow your pods there, but you'll obviously need a way to transport the pods to your main tank for your mandarin to eat. One way this is achieved is through the use of "Pod Condos", but this method is widely criticized and ineffective. You essentially create little "Condos" of LR rubble bound together by mesh. When the copepods breed and cover the rocks, you move the condo into your display tank for your mandarin to feed off of the pods. For this to even have a remote chance of success, you'd probably need more condos than a 10g is even capable of holding.

I'd recommend trying the "Mandarin Diner" or olive jar method, which I've recently had success with. Just do a google search for it and plenty of results will turn up. If you're interested in hatching fresh brine shrimp for him, you can also look into a feeding station designed by Paul B over on thereeftank, though baby brine shrimp hardly qualifies as a nutritious diet for a mandarin in the long run.

Also, if the tank we're speaking of is the 35 gallon tank that your display name alludes to, you're going to have to get that tang out of there before too long. 35 gallons is way too small for any kind of tang. I won't spark the debate of the century by giving a specific size that a blue tang requires, but all would be in agreement that 35 gallons is too small.

Good luck.

[Dissy]

I just bought a Green Mandarin, or I think thats what it is. The fish store had only one sign on the tank for 2 types of mandarins. It's called Spotted Mandarin Goby on another webpage... However, my question is how to care for them. The fish store guy mentioned the other blue striped mandarin kind to be more difficult to keep but the green to be easy. Is that true, do I just feed regular meaty frozen diets and sea veggi's? The fish transitioned well into the new tank so far, discovering the whole tank, not very nervous, not hiding, and the other fish leaving him alone for the most part.

The fact that these two questions are even posed is a strong indication that you should make every attempt to return the mandarin. You have to know what you're going, what your back up plan is, and what the backup plan to your backup plan is.. This isn't a fish you can put in a tank, and just hope it works out. - it usually doesn't.

What's your pod population like?
What do you supplement it with?
What else is the Mandarin eating?
How do you know for sure it's eating and not just picking?
What else is in the tank with it?

[TankStudy]

If you wish to keep the mandarin you will need to teach it to eat frozen foods. If you don't want to keep it, give it to another reefer with experience in mandarins or return it if possible.

The smallest tank I've been able to keep frozen fed mandarins is a 10g. Not very many creatures bother mandarins. They have a bitter tasting slimecoat that drives off most fish or other creatures.

You may want to buy enriched frozen mysis or some people do it themselves. Mix frozen and live food together first when trying to coax the mandarin into frozen food in a smaller confined area so she can see the food. Once the mandarin picks up on to eatting frozen, you are good to go.

Frozen eatting mandarins are expensive. I would know, I sell many of mine off when they are trained ;)

[35galSaltwater]

Hey, many thanks webersp, Tankstudy... I will try my best, sounds like an interesting job to grow pods ;-) . Question for Dissy, how did you gain your experience in this hobby, probably not by returning any fish that was a challenge, whats with the grumpy attitude? Sure, reading up before buying sounds like a great idea and I usually do but it's not always practical when the fish store never has what you are looking for and as a mom of 2 small kids I get to go to the fish store maybe once or twice a quarter (alone), not even talking about the time I need afterwards in order to acclimate a fish if I buy one. So sometimes I just want to think the guys in the fish store want their customers to return happily and that they actually tell you their expert opinion. I am still hoping that this mandarin is actually trained to eat frozen food (altough I realize that chances are small). Hey, lets see what happens, maybe I get to give advice about mandarins in a year from now, ha ha. Thanks again!

[35galSaltwater]

Oh, the blue tang is still small, happily married to the clown fish, never has ick (only once right after purchase) but he will go to a bigger home in time. Maybe I will post him but hopefully we might upgrade tank size in a while :wavehand:

[DragKnee]

Oh, the blue tang is still small, happily married to the clown fish, never has ick (only once right after purchase) but he will go to a bigger home in time. Maybe I will post him but hopefully we might upgrade tank size in a while :wavehand:

If you didn't QT the Hippo, and it actually had ich .. it actually still does have ich, it just isn't stressed so the ich parasite is "dormant"

Definitely move the Hippo to a bigger tank (180g+) when you get the chance. A small tank like a 35g will only mean stress at some point for the Hippo, and stress will lead to an ich outbreak. If there is an ich outbreak, all your fish will probably get it, and your kids will be disappointed if fish pass away. You may also find it difficult to catch all the fish out of your tank and leave it fallow for the required 8 weeks.

Your hippo may not seem stressed now, but it will be, or already is. My uncle had a Powder Blue in a 65g tank for nearly 5 years, and it got to the point where it began getting extremely stressed and he had to sell it. Fish won't get "used" to the tank if they're there long enough, they want/need open space.

[hub81]

Dragnets are difficult to keep to say the least, as stated a well established tank is necessary for the survival. Frozen foods are tough to train them to eat. You can purchase the pods at some pet stores and online as well. I would recommend this if you plan on keeping it from starving. Do not plan on just the frozen several make this classic mistake and think it is doing fine and 6 months later it dies. I kept one in a 39Gal no sump for over two years but the tank had been established for over a year before I purchased him.
Check amazon for a book called Marine fishes, it is 20 bucks and is a pretty good book.

[35galSaltwater]

I got the refugium going today, medium small LR in every compartment, Chaeto in 2 compartments, pods in all 3. Some spilled over into the tank and are vibrating around near the light. :bounce3: The mandarin is not prticularly impressed by the frozen food, swirling it around in front of her doesn't increase her appetite, actually makes her turn away. I tried the "Mandarin Diner"-method with a clear plastic water bottle, I didn't see the mandarin go in but somehow the hermit crabs made it in there, lots of them. I will switch to a small glass jar tomorrow, I always wanted to try capers for dinner... not really but the jar looked perfect, so I bought it.

How do you "wave the food in front of the fish" without scaring them? :fish1:

[agruetz]

If you wish to keep the mandarin you will need to teach it to eat frozen foods. If you don't want to keep it, give it to another reefer with experience in mandarins or return it if possible.

The smallest tank I've been able to keep frozen fed mandarins is a 10g. Not very many creatures bother mandarins. They have a bitter tasting slimecoat that drives off most fish or other creatures.

You may want to buy enriched frozen mysis or some people do it themselves. Mix frozen and live food together first when trying to coax the mandarin into frozen food in a smaller confined area so she can see the food. Once the mandarin picks up on to eatting frozen, you are good to go.

Frozen eatting mandarins are expensive. I would know, I sell many of mine off when they are trained ;)

Yea training is the way to go, mine almost starved during training or least I thought so, I dos'ed ALOT of pods in that first 3 months to keep him healthy enough (Bottle or two a week). I finally figured out how to get him to eat frozen food. Now he chases frozen mysis around the tank when I feed him, however even know I still have to take special care to spot feed him directly.

I recommend a mixture of cyclopeeze and mysis, I soak mine in garlic or did at first. So I took 1 cube cyclopeeze and 1 cube mysis mix and soaked in 10 drops garlic and feed two - 3 times a day. I also had to to build a mini feed station where nothing else could attack the food I would present to him.

Once he got bigger I switched him to mysis only because he was not going after the cyclopeeze very much anymore and the mixture alone was not keeping him fat.

If you think you cannot keep him or care for it, I recommend returning it and/or finding a reefer with the appropriate setup/ability to keep it. You will see their belly sink in when they are starving.

Hope this helps, they are what I like to call a high care creature...it is not rocket science to keep them but they do require a good amount of attention and in a small tank definitely are not a drop food in and forget about it fish.

[reefgoddess808]

My green mandarin started eating frozen on his own, I did nothing to train him. However, this is unusual and a good pod population is best. They eat constantly so even though mine takes any frozen food I feed, I feed twice sometimes three times a day, I still add pods every so often. They are beneficial to the tank and a great food for my mandy. I suggest reefs2go for pods. Although they ship them in a bag with filter media (which is incredibly difficult to remove the pods from) you def get your moneys worth. And its a mix of amphipods and copepods. Amphipods are much bigger and help keep the tank clean and the tinier copepods are the main diet of dragonettes.

[reefgoddess808]

If you have access to a glass pipette that would be the instrument to use to wave the food. Its a thin long glass tube you basically poke the food on the end and present it to the fish. In college we hand fed all of our specimens this way.

[Dissy]

Hey, many thanks webersp, Tankstudy... I will try my best, sounds like an interesting job to grow pods ;-) . Question for Dissy, how did you gain your experience in this hobby, probably not by returning any fish that was a challenge, whats with the grumpy attitude? Sure, reading up before buying sounds like a great idea and I usually do but it's not always practical when the fish store never has what you are looking for and as a mom of 2 small kids I get to go to the fish store maybe once or twice a quarter (alone), not even talking about the time I need afterwards in order to acclimate a fish if I buy one. So sometimes I just want to think the guys in the fish store want their customers to return happily and that they actually tell you their expert opinion. I am still hoping that this mandarin is actually trained to eat frozen food (altough I realize that chances are small). Hey, lets see what happens, maybe I get to give advice about mandarins in a year from now, ha ha. Thanks again!

Not grumpy at all - sorry if you think so.. Mandarins just aren't one of the "figure it out as you go" fish, mostly because they're more than half starved by the time your fish store gets them.

I was never going to get one, because I'd read everything possible about them, and knew they'd be hit or miss, at best. Then I had one look at me while floating upside down with her head cocked, and I got sucked in. Luckily I knew enough to know that she's be fine in my tank, would have no competition for food whatsoever, but training her to eat anything in addition to pellets is a slooooow process, and her belly still isn't as filled out as I'd like it to be after a month, so I'm still worried she isn't going to make it, despite the fact that she seems great.

No offense meant.

[agruetz]

Not grumpy at all - sorry if you think so.. Mandarins just aren't one of the "figure it out as you go" fish, mostly because they're more than half starved by the time your fish store gets them.

I was never going to get one, because I'd read everything possible about them, and knew they'd be hit or miss, at best. Then I had one look at me while floating upside down with her head cocked, and I got sucked in. Luckily I knew enough to know that she's be fine in my tank, would have no competition for food whatsoever, but training her to eat anything in addition to pellets is a slooooow process, and her belly still isn't as filled out as I'd like it to be after a month, so I'm still worried she isn't going to make it, despite the fact that she seems great.

No offense meant.

Give it time, if it is eating it should be good. Mine took a good month and a half to put back on what I would call normal weight levels. Now he runs around fat and happy.

[ssdawood]

Alot of people have been successful to train mandarins to eat prepared foods. I did buy a cheap 15 dollar mandarin and trained it in a week to eat frozen foods. The trick is patience.

Start with live brine shrimp, something about the movement that the mandarin likes. Once she starts taking live brine move her over to frozen brine shrimp. Remember to turn all powerheads off and feed her with the sea squirt. If she doesnt eat the first time keep following her around.

Soon she will recognize the shape of brine and eat it. It only took me a week to train mine. Now she eats everything Frozen brine, mysis, live black worms and frozen black worms.

She does not like cyclopeze and pellets.

Hope this helps dont give up bro.

[35galSaltwater]

Thanks for all the cool ideas. The mandarin is still not going after the frozen food, at least not from what I can tell, same with the spot fed Nutra Ova. She runs from the pipette and feeding syringe. I haven't tried life brine since she even runs from life pods that are spot fed. She searches the tank and picks up particles constantly, so maybe she does eat some.

The refugium didn't produce any copepods, after one week nothing moved in there anymore, maybe the drip was too high and flushed them all into the main tank, maybe the water is "too clean" and the pods starved? My separate 10 gal tank with saltwater, pebbles, and sunlight however is perfect breeding ground for the pods but unfortunately also for algae. Question is how to get the pods from there to my main tank without transferring the nastyness??? Today, I used the filter sponge that came with my last order of pods from reefs2go. I held a flashlight to the glass of the 10 gal tank, the pods accumulated near the light, I caught many with the sponge, let the bad water run through as much as possible (not squeesing it out) and transferred it to the first of my 3 refugium compartments. There is 2 small life rocks in each compartment and macroalgae in 2 compartments, so hopefully some of the nasty water is still naturally filtered? Any better suggestions?

By the way, the feeding jar isn't working, the hermit crabs have a party in there, the mandarin doesn't go in. Does anybody have an idea how to set it up?

Thanks again, she still looks normal, maybe still eating enough pods.

[35galSaltwater]

Just an update, still no luck with training her to accept any frozen shrimp or other diet. How do guys feel about just keeping up with the copepods since those are really easy to breed?:confused: I have been adding a sponge full (probably 20 to 40 adults and who knows how many eggs or juveniles since they are too small to see) every 1 to 2 days.