Ultimate Quarantine Regimen

[tylersarah]

Now that I've lost 70% of my fish to parasitic worms - a very small, rapidly killing type of flukes, I'd like help forming an overkill quarantine plan.

Normally, I qt all fish in hyposalinity and then a course of Prazipro, if all looks good for at least 4 weeks in the tank they go.

Now that disaster struck, I'd like a more cautious regimen.

Hypo, Formalin, Chloroquine Phosphate, tank transfer. What do you all think? And what meds are best to have on hand for issues that pop up?

Also, what would be the best regime for anything other than fish - snails, sps, macro algae? My thought would be 12 wks in a cycled tank with a good light for the sps.

[tylersarah]

No anal quarantiners out there?

[WDLV]

I think that it's not your regamin so much as the length. I would extend the duration to AT LEAST 90 days after purchase or the last sign of illness; whichever comes last.

[thegrun]

I like to dip before the hypo, and as posted above a longer 9 week QT period.

[tylersarah]

Dip in a formaldehyde bath?

Thanks guys.

[Deinonych]

I would agree with the 9-week QT. Gives plenty of time for medication and observation. Prazipro should be part of everyone's QT protocol. I read somewhere that 70% of wild-caught fish have some sort of worm infection. I've had mixed success with copper - some fish tolerate it well, others don't. If the fish tolerates it, copper is extremely effective. I'm currently treating my fish with chloroquine phosphate and initial indications are that it is gentle on the fish. I have yet to hear of someone not being able to cure crypt with CP, but it is too early for me to form a personal opinion (fish have been in treatment only 5 days so far).

[WDLV]

I would opt for a formalin bath to a dip. If there's reason to believe ot is needed. Tbere are a few. Lowns I'd do it with just as a precaution.

[HippieSmell]

No anal quarantiners out there?
Not any more. I find that it gives me a terrible stomach ache.

Sorry about your fish.

[supra400hptt]

I just posted this over in the tank transfer thread. I guess you could call it anal.

I just use two 5 gallon buckets with an air stone and heater for each one. Every other day I move the fish to a new bucket. Dump a little bleach in the bucket they came out of for a few minutes then rinse it out and dry it. Next day fill back up for the next transfer the following day. After 12 days/6 transfers then the fish goes into a quarantine tank with a high power UV (aqua uv). I keep 20 gallons in the quarantine with a pump that runs the water through the UV several times per hour. After 2 weeks of watching and making sure the fish is eating ok, then I do two weeks of prazipro. I feed light on day one in the bucket, then heavy a few hours before a transfer. No ammonia problems to worry about. I keep a piece of pvc in the bucket for the fish to hide and rest in. The only failure I've had is a wrasse that jumped out of the bucket one time. I've got a disease free DT for the first time in 6 years now that I'm doing the transfer method. One of the fish is a purple tang, and I had three yellows that didn't make it when I was just quarantining with cupramine. I quit using any copper based meds. The test kits for copper are just too hard to read to keep the dose exactly right in my opinion. I keep formalin on hand in case I see any brooklynella develop while transferring (mainly for clowns).

[WDLV]

I just posted this over in the tank transfer thread. I guess you could call it anal.

I just use two 5 gallon buckets with an air stone and heater for each one. Every other day I move the fish to a new bucket. Dump a little bleach in the bucket they came out of for a few minutes then rinse it out and dry it. Next day fill back up for the next transfer the following day. After 12 days/6 transfers then the fish goes into a quarantine tank with a high power UV (aqua uv). I keep 20 gallons in the quarantine with a pump that runs the water through the UV several times per hour. After 2 weeks of watching and making sure the fish is eating ok, then I do two weeks of prazipro. I feed light on day one in the bucket, then heavy a few hours before a transfer. No ammonia problems to worry about. I keep a piece of pvc in the bucket for the fish to hide and rest in. The only failure I've had is a wrasse that jumped out of the bucket one time. I've got a disease free DT for the first time in 6 years now that I'm doing the transfer method. One of the fish is a purple tang, and I had three yellows that didn't make it when I was just quarantining with cupramine. I quit using any copper based meds. The test kits for copper are just too hard to read to keep the dose exactly right in my opinion. I keep formalin on hand in case I see any brooklynella develop while transferring (mainly for clowns).

This is the same direction I go when I'm treating a fish that is sick or is a highly succeptable species. I use ten gallon tanks and swap the water daily. Most of the disease life cycles have a water born phase. So swapping tanks helps to prevent reinfection. It also prevents ammonia buildup and residual chemicals from influencing subsequent doses.

[geaux xman]

I do 3-4wks of cupramine, 2 rounds of prazipro, and 1 1hr formalin dip.

[RxMike]

Geaux Xman


"I do 3-4wks of cupramine, 2 rounds of prazipro, and 1 1hr formalin dip".

I have also done a similar QT regimen. I learned it from a local reefer. I dont really understand purpose of the 1 hr formalin dip after 4 weeks of copper and 2 rounds of prazipro we would think all critters have been killed off.

i have to say after the 1 hr formalin dip i did see some brown specs at bottom of bucket. Hard to know if these specs are parasites without use of a microscope. I have had good success using this regimen though.

[ca1ore]

I QT everything! I keep a permanently running 30 gallon tank setup as a reef with live rock, skimmer, UV and LED par38 lights. All inverts and fish go into this tank initially for observation. If, after 3-4 months, everything looks good, they go into the display. If anything looks amiss during the observation period, I use a separate 20L for required treatment. Once treatment in the HT is complete, back into the 'observation' tank. I tend to not treat prophylactically, though with some fish, ParziPro is done just in case.

1. All meds are done in that HT which is setup semi-permanently/as needed
2. I keep at least two bags of those ceramic bio filter rings in my observation tank for when they are needed in HT
3. I keep a range of meds on hand

[tylersarah]

What is the UV for?

I'm interested in chloroquine phosphate because copper is tricky without an auto topoff and some fish don't fare well. Where do people buy it, online?


How long should I quarantine inverts including snails & coral?

[zeebies]

I do observation/tank transfer/observation/2 rounds of Prazi Pro/observation for a total of 11-12 weeks for all fish in a sterile QT.

I have an additional cycled QT for inverts/coral/rock. The stay there is 10 weeks.

[tylersarah]

This is all good info.

What I fear is winter, the basement is 55-60 degrees and the chinsey heaters don't keep the water temp stable at all. Sometimes I put a towel over the tank and that helps, I can see where this is going...to the KITCHEN :lmao:

[sanababit]

Wow guys you have a LOT of time on your hands with qt and fish transfers, i just buy a fish, and in the tank it goes if it makes it grest if not i can get another one, i dont buy expensive fishies, the most expensive i got once was a purple tang, but it was a trade for zoas, anyways, good luck with your qt and unless you qt EVERYTHING then something might get into your tank eventually

Sana

[tylersarah]

What's the best method for transitioning between meds?

1. Do you need to run carbon?
2. Do you need to replace sponge filters? Or can they be rinsed? Will that kill the biological filter?

I have quite the fish medicine cabinet:
Prazipro - dewormer
Nitrofuracin Green Powder - antibacterial
Metronidazole - internal dewormer
Para-X - internal dewormer, unsure of active ingred.
Quinine Sulfate - Ich, flukes & more
Chloroquine Phosphate - Ich, flukes & more
Bifuran - antibacterial
Formalin - flukes and fungus

I know the above treats other ailments that are not listed. I'm trying to have something for every common disease, I don't want to wait for shipping ever again (or pay expedited prices, yak).

[Charlene]

I too run a small 40 gallon QT tank and partitioned divided tank for all incoming fish. The tanks have some live rock in displays for fish and some in the sump Both the QT tanks share a single sump. System has a skimmer and UV. My new arrivals spend at least 2 months in it. In addition I have a couple of hospital tanks for medicating. The QT tank is very easy to run and I don't get super picky about how it looks. It's in the basement. Here is a pic of it being set up. If I see ich, I go hypo with the whole system. If it's bacteria I need to medicate. The hospital tanks are for dips and baths that would make a mess in my QT tank. I need to get some more pics of it for you now that its running. Again it aint pretty but it works and I have fun with it in my man cave :-).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nAMjXgsw-1U/Ui3eYw9ppxI/AAAAAAAACwI/wnk3yOH6CIk/w857-h643-no/IMAGE_2DCC855D-47C9-42B6-9BBD-248B0A5BBA1E.JPG

[jdaniels175]

with such long qt's...at what point does the qt become the DT?

[GroktheCube]

I do TTM to start, then two courses of Prazi. If I see anything bacterial, I use amoxicillin to start, then EM or baytril if that doesn't work. I've never has to deal velvet, but if I did, I'd use daily dip + transfer, or CP.

[fltekdiver]

Doesn't all these tank transferes stress the fish?

Also, how do you keep all the tanks so close in parameters where you can just take the fish and move them from one to the other without acclamation ?

I've had my clowns now in QT for 8 weeks, it's a 29 gallon tank, and I'm having a heck of a time with water changes. Keeping it topped off so the SG doesn't raise to much, and keeping the parameters close to the DT . So they can go right from QT into my DT, with no
Acclamation

They were ran through 2 treatments of PraziPro, that's the only thing I did for them

This weekend they go into my 180 that's been cycled now for a week, and I'll clean up the QT, and start all over with the new arrivals

[fltekdiver]

Wow guys you have a LOT of time on your hands with qt and fish transfers, i just buy a fish, and in the tank it goes if it makes it grest if not i can get another one, i dont buy expensive fishies, the most expensive i got once was a purple tang, but it was a trade for zoas, anyways, good luck with your qt and unless you qt EVERYTHING then something might get into your tank eventually

Sana

I've read where people skip the QT all together also, in thoughts of not stressing the fish with multiple tank transfers

[Charlene]

with such long qt's...at what point does the qt become the DT?

It's definitely not a display tank though it has some of the same gear. It's a stress free place for the new fish to hang out. My display is 400 gallons and has corals and inverts. I just can't bring myself to drop a new fish in it. One sick fish or pest ridden coral can cause a huge setback in time and money. I also get a chance to better understand the personality and needs of a new animal. I also like having a place of safety for a fish that has problems in my display. This system is piece of mind for me and its fun for me to have. I don't have a beef with anyone who decides its not worth it for them but I know too many folks who have lost tanks to disease after years of hard work.

[jdaniels175]

wasn't trying to minimize your need for precaution. sorry if it came off that way. i am a firm believer that everyone has to find what works for them and their system. just had this vision of people trying to be more and more careful and ending up with roomful of individual tanks to house each individual fish/ coral. Guess that would be the ultimate low stress/ safe environment.

[GroktheCube]

Doesn't all these tank transferes stress the fish?

Also, how do you keep all the tanks so close in parameters where you can just take the fish and move them from one to the other without acclamation ?

I've had my clowns now in QT for 8 weeks, it's a 29 gallon tank, and I'm having a heck of a time with water changes. Keeping it topped off so the SG doesn't raise to much, and keeping the parameters close to the DT . So they can go right from QT into my DT, with no
Acclamation

They were ran through 2 treatments of PraziPro, that's the only thing I did for them

This weekend they go into my 180 that's been cycled now for a week, and I'll clean up the QT, and start all over with the new arrivals

The transfers could be stressful. If new fish seem really stressed, I'll wait an extra day or two for transfer.

I have two 20-highs on a simple metal stand one over the other, each of them with two side (back and side towards busy part of room) spray painted black. I use an identical set of PVC fittings in each, along with identical air stones and PHs (koralia nanos) in identical places. I have tight fitting glass tops to minimize evaporation.

The day before the transfer, I fill the second tank with ro/di and mix the salt into it directly in the tank. I fill it to just below the brim and use ~9.5 scoops of IO, which gets me to just about 34ppt, which is where most sellers seem to keep their tanks.

For the transfer, I pull most of the PVC fittings, and the fish usually swim into the one they feel most secure in (typically a 7" length of 1" PVC that tees into a slightly downward facing elbow). I a large reef-gently acclimate box in the tank, place the fitting pointing into it, and lift it out of the water. Fish go right into it. I then lift the internal perforated box out to drain the old water, and plop them into the second QT laid out identically to the first with identical water params.

There's probably some stress, but IMHO its minimal. I don't chase them around with a net or physically damage them with one. Pulling them out also gives me a chance for a brief inspection to look for wounds or signs of disease. If I see a wound, I dissolve 500mg of amoxicillin (extracted from human rx capsule) in the second QT. I then sterilize the first with a 1bleach:10tap water solution soak + scrub, rinse it well, and leave it to air dry. If upon transferring back I see a wound that does not show any signs of improvement, I dose EM. If the EM doesn't do it, I use baytril.

After TTM to rule out ich, I put a mature biofilter in the QT and run two courses of Prazi.

I've considered trying to culture antibiotic resistant nitrifying bacteria for use in a QT that's being treated, but never really gotten around to it. Not sure how well it would work.

[Charlene]

Thanks. I wasn't offended at all. You are right. You can go to extremes (and I frequently do). If I didn't have the space, time or money I would make different choices. I have friends with no QT displays that worked out fine for them. I was merely differentiating between QT tanks and hospital tanks. I went ahead and set up a QT tank that is separate from my hospital tank and it's reduced the hassle of bringing in new fish tremendously. My QT tank has biological filtration and stability that makes it so much less stressful for me and the fish. I got frustrated trying to be a responsible fish reefer. I wanted to quarantine for obvious reasons but never liked the fact that new arrivals, freaked out from the shipment, went into sterile seawater with only a few pieces of pvc to hide in. Some were fine but I swear others were so freaked out the may have died of fright. I also got sick of all the water changes and monitoring needed to keep a sterile tank going for a new fish that didn't show any signs of disease. With my new setup I feel I have a firewall from my display that has similar stability found in the display with no potential for aggression. They could chill for as long as I felt necessary and if I had a disease outbreak I could battle it from this tank. I still have hospital tanks for medication and buckets I use for dips but this tank gives me a long term safe harbor for animals I'm not ready to introduce to my display that doesn't take constant monitoring.

[tylersarah]

I'm really not a fan of copper. What I plan on doing is setting up a 20 G invert qt - with sand, lighting & manage alk/Ca/Mg for corals, snails, crabs and a cleaner shrimp. Everything will spend 3 months in here before entering the display.

Another 20 G will be for fish, here I can dose whatever I see fit. I'm thinking ParaGuard as a general preventative and hypo or tank transfer for ich.

I have another challenge: winter. My basement is not heated and being Wisconsin, winter is long and the basement temp is ~50 degrees. This makes heating aquariums challenging. I plan on glass tops for the qts and either a large heater or two regular sized ones in each tank.

[tylersarah]

Some people who observe fish with ich say that the spots don't drop off, for weeks even, wouldn't a case like this make tank transfer ineffective?

I'm debating a fail-safe qt regimen for ich, I think chloroquine phosphate is a good choice, but it is hard to come by.

[tylersarah]

Anyone have any feedback with treating sensitive fish with Quinine Sulfate?

[ca1ore]

with such long qt's...at what point does the qt become the DT?

Long QT allows my DT to continue to be a DT rather than a FT! Who can guess what a FT is?

[ca1ore]

I have another challenge: winter. My basement is not heated and being Wisconsin, winter is long and the basement temp is ~50 degrees. This makes heating aquariums challenging. I plan on glass tops for the qts and either a large heater or two regular sized ones in each tank.

Since being able to see into a QT is not necessary, at least not constantly, wrap the tank in an insulating blanket in the winter. That is what I used to do with my QT when I had a cold basement.

[tylersarah]

I did use a blanket effectively last winter to keep temp stable, it is nice to see the fish though. Sometimes I like to watch them from afar to see what their behavior is like when I'm not around.

FT - failed tank?

And why on earth would people use copper when there's alternatives like quinine sulfate?

[ca1ore]

FT = Fallow Tank!

People use copper because it is proven effective, relatively easy to use, and fish generally endure treatment well. CP or QS is newer, not always easy to find, and less proven.

[tylersarah]

Ahh, yes. I have a FT. I'm considering keeping it that way, if I don't mix fish with coral there will be many less problems. Or I will go insane in the basement with my collection of QT tanks, there's currently 3.

Would anyone care to answer my med questions?

1. What's a good precautionary med for new fish in QT?

I don't like copper or believe in prazipro any longer. I'm thinking ParaGuard, Nitrofuracin Green powder or simply hypo...

2. Fish in QT shows ich spots, any reason not to treat with Quinine Sulfate? I like that it covers so many other possible diseases.

3. Have you ever read the warning labels on these fish meds? Yesterday I siphoned a mouthful of formaldehyde (spit it out, of course) and got to reading about tumors on rats on my antibacterials...De Los, what in the world...I need a protective body suit.

[Joe0813]

Wow guys you have a LOT of time on your hands with qt and fish transfers, i just buy a fish, and in the tank it goes if it makes it grest if not i can get another one, i dont buy expensive fishies, the most expensive i got once was a purple tang, but it was a trade for zoas, anyways, good luck with your qt and unless you qt EVERYTHING then something might get into your tank eventually

Sana


wow thats a great attitude to have... "if it makes it great if not i can get another one." way to kill fish just because you refuse to QT