WARNING: Boiling/Cooking Live Rock

[Pez68]

I wanted to start a new thread because I have seen several times people suggest boiling or cooking live rock to rid it of troublesome aiptasia, hair algae, etc. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Just do a few google searches on live rock cooking or boiling and palytoxin and you will understand why you should never, ever boil or cook live rock.

There are still many undiscovered/undocumented things in regards to the ocean. There's no way of knowing if something in your live rock will emit palytoxins when threatened, cooked, or boiled. There are a couple known zoanthids that will emit them. Palytoxin is one of the most fatal substances on the planet. When you boil organisms that release this toxin, you are aerosolizing the toxin, which puts it in it's most dangerous and fatal form. So, please, please, please don't take the chance and boil or cook your live rock. There are better ways to deal with these problems.

[Pez68]

By the way, this should probably be a sticky. I know this topic is a sticky on several other reef forums I frequent.

[thegrun]

Cooking does not refer to putting your live rock on the stove!

[Anemone]

Cooking does not refer to putting your live rock on the stove!

This.

Kevin

[dattong]

but boiling does

[Dmorty217]

I wanted to start a new thread because I have seen several times people suggest boiling or cooking live rock to rid it of troublesome aiptasia, hair algae, etc. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Just do a few google searches on live rock cooking or boiling and palytoxin and you will understand why you should never, ever boil or cook live rock.

There are still many undiscovered/undocumented things in regards to the ocean. There's no way of knowing if something in your live rock will emit palytoxins when threatened, cooked, or boiled. There are a couple known zoanthids that will emit them. Palytoxin is one of the most fatal substances on the planet. When you boil organisms that release this toxin, you are aerosolizing the toxin, which puts it in it's most dangerous and fatal form. So, please, please, please don't take the chance and boil or cook your live rock. There are better ways to deal with these problems.

Boiling liverock is a oxymoron. If you cook the rock it isn't alive anymore so therefor not worth the 6-8$ a lb you pay for liverock. As far as the palytoxin goes that varies from person to person, people say don't handle zoas with open cuts and such, but I have done this countless times with no negative affects, I also have been stung by my foxface with no adverse reaction. Very good information for those who deal with palytoxins

[Pez68]

I don't know that it is an oxymoron. The rock is alive until the time you cook/boil it. Afterwards? It's not live rock anymore. It's just rock. Rock that, depending on what was in it, could release enough aerosolized poison to kill everything in your house.

I would argue with palytoxin varying from person to person... If the zoas release palytoxin when boiled, I don't know of anything that won't be affected by it.... There's no such thing as palytoxin immunity as far as I know.

You may be able to handle zoas with open cuts for several reasons. They might be zoas that do not release palytoxin(very common). They might be zoas that do release the toxin, but don't feel threatened enough to do so when you are handling them. You may just get lucky.

Bottom line is, when dealing with the potential of a substance as dangerous as palytoxin, don't take any chances...

What exactly are people referring to when they say "cook" your live rock?

[schatzi]

why would you do any of this? I just let the rock soak in FW for weeks, or months, sit in the sun to dry, then soak more, RO water rinsing, etc.... Seems to work just fine.

[ucdcrew]

People have suggested boiling the rock to get rid of aptasia on another thread.

[ryeguyy84]

Cooking live rocks:
I got this from another post...


Dave,
Sure thing.
But before I do I just want to say that Bomber instructed me how to do it several months ago and it works great. So it is his process that I am trying to make popular and cause fellow hobbyists a lot less heartache in the long term.
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have tha bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."

Here are the steps, if you have any questions I will try my best to answer them. What I don't know I am sure Bomber can/will instruct.

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turnsq brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish.
9. Cover the tub. Remember, we want total darkness.
10. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
11. Wait.
12. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again unti the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detrius is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.

How it works:


Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been extablished. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.




I hope this helps you out.
It really is a "miracle" and a low cost one at that.
The only monies spent are for salt and electricity for the powerheads which are nominal. Especially to rid yourself of Bryopsis.
Time and effort is all it akes. And really not that much effort.
I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on andy rocks in the tubs now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, receed etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Everytime I do a waterchange they are there and plentiful.

[dkeller_nc]

Just an FYI, folks - there is no resistance to palytoxin in humans. It is the most toxic non-peptide, natural substance yet discovered.

It is true that some people have additional anaphylactic allergic reactions to other things in live rock (certain cyanobacteria is one example) that can be quite serious, even life-threatening. And those reactions can sometimes lead folks to think that those folks were susceptible to palytoxin and they weren't.

But this isn't true - it's just that palytoxin-producing palythoas aren't extremely common. They're not rare either, but that's how some hobbyists get away with actually boiling their rock to get rid of undesirable palythoas, aiptasias, and the like.

Aerosolizing any sea creature is very risky, whether by boiling, scrubbing or power tool use. There are many, many different toxins produced by different sea critters, and almost all of them are very dangerous if inhaled. So if you need to sterilize your rock for some reason, you need to do it by leaving it out in the sun to dry, placing it in in pure freshwater, or placing it in a vinegar bath.

[krzyphsygy]

I cooked my rock for 6 months, but cooking it refers to putting all the rock in two Rubbermaid trash cans with salt water and several pumps completely covered from any light. Keeping it I total darkness for the full duration . Killing off unwanted parasites and light hungry pests.
Def not cooking it in the ovens or boiling it!

[Pez68]

I made this thread in response to seeing more than a few people suggesting that someone boils, bakes, or cooks their live rock to get rid of aiptasia, majanos, etc.

I understand there is another way of "cooking" live rock, but that's a misnomer, and not what I'm referring to here.

[Breadman03]

I made this thread in response to seeing more than a few people suggesting that someone boils, bakes, or cooks their live rock to get rid of aiptasia, majanos, etc.

I understand there is another way of "cooking" live rock, but that's a misnomer, and not what I'm referring to here.

I advocate for calling it "curing" live rock as the word "curing" doesn't have any connotations of applying heat the way "cooking" does.