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View Full Version : Which setup is best (Hydra vs Radion G2)


All Seas
09/23/2013, 02:32 AM
Hey guys,

Just finished setting up my 90 standard (24 deep) and I am looking for a lighting and controller setup. I am using an mp40, tunze ato, and a marineland return pump.

I am looking to keep a mixed reef. I originally wasnt looking at either of these two lighting setups since I wanted a stand alone controller. But now I see that both will be elligible in the short future with the apex or reeflink. Right now I only have a a frogspawn and some zoas in my 30 gallon but want to get more in the new tank. Here are the options I was thinking:

Two Radion G2s and use Reef Link to control everything

Two AI Hydras and use Apex as my controller

Or Two G2s with Apex


My lfs is pushing the new Razors but like I said, I like the idea of a centralized controller for everything. I am new to LEDs as well as controllers so what would be the best way for me to go?

Thanks

HurricaneSystem
09/23/2013, 06:38 AM
Two G2's with Apex, Reef link when it comes out and is available. The Hydra will not compete with the Radions, trust me.

All Seas
09/23/2013, 10:22 AM
Two G2's with Apex, Reef link when it comes out and is available. The Hydra will not compete with the Radions, trust me.



So your saying reef link will be better than apex when it's available? If that's the case I will just hold off.

The radion g2s are now 550 each so the lights will cost me 300 more over the hydras. Is it worth it?

HurricaneSystem
09/23/2013, 10:48 AM
Yes, it is definitely worth it. I don't know about the reef link being better, it is not released yet.

However, the software that you program the Radions with, is free and you will not need an Apex to do that. You can turn them off, ramp down, etc. by programming them with your computer. Again, free with the lights.

The Hydras you can program with buttons, but that is not a good way to do it. You need an extra AI Controller or their new AI Director, each about 100 dollars. So you aren't saving any money by going with the Hydra's.

They are not half the light that the Radion is.

Tron_954
09/23/2013, 10:50 AM
Ecotech Modules > AI Modules.

I can say this as I sold my AI LEDs for a Radion. Controllability and color rendering (as good as it gets for LEDs) is no comparison

liquidfunk
09/23/2013, 10:56 AM
Hurricane you swore you needed UV here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21899157&postcount=1

You also say this in another thread
"If you are going with the AI's, I suggest you go with the Hydra or wait for the new fixture. UV is an absolute MUST in my opinion. The one deciding factor between all of these lights and my corals was the presence of UV. Without it, it was catastrophic, with it, the corals are coming back nicely and flourishing. "


Yet you recommend a G2 which does not have UV?

Tron_954
09/23/2013, 11:08 AM
LED UV, is not the same as Natural UV, emitted by the likes of T5 or MH

sanababit
09/23/2013, 11:09 AM
Lol, busted ^, btw i have 2 mp40wes, 2 radions g2, apex with wxm, i am anxiously waiting for the software update, before commiting to led be adviced that you may loose corals, so patience is the key, good luck

Sana

HurricaneSystem
09/23/2013, 12:08 PM
Oh do the G2's not have UV??? I thought all of the Radions did?

Nope, not busted, I just assumed they did since I have the pro version. YES, you need UV.

In that case, buy the Radion Pro's (With UV) or if you can't afford those, get the Hydras (With UV).

Thanks for catching that. I really had no idea the G2's didn't have UV.

D-Nak
09/23/2013, 01:05 PM
Or get a pair of Kessils (all have UV) and hook them up to an Apex to control them. You'll get a lot of use out of the Apex and this combination is cheaper than Radion Pros.

I have a pair of Radion G1s and supplement them with a pair of T5s -- I like this combination a lot, but I know it's not for everyone. I have a canopy on my tank that house the Radion's at the recommended 8" height -- if I didn't, I'd go with Kessils.

AJReefs
09/23/2013, 04:00 PM
The new Maxspect 200 would be a great size for your tank and it has UV

All Seas
09/23/2013, 06:59 PM
So all these Radion Gen 2 owners have insufficient lighting to grow corals since it lacks UV?

HurricaneSystem
09/23/2013, 07:07 PM
They did upgrade to the PRO, so it is better.

You can sustain corals without UV. You might even grow some, but it will never, ever, be the same without UV.

All Seas
09/29/2013, 12:00 PM
how do the hydras compare to the maxspect razors?

mikeatjac
09/29/2013, 12:13 PM
Hurricane you swore you needed UV here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21899157&postcount=1

You also say this in another thread
"If you are going with the AI's, I suggest you go with the Hydra or wait for the new fixture. UV is an absolute MUST in my opinion. The one deciding factor between all of these lights and my corals was the presence of UV. Without it, it was catastrophic, with it, the corals are coming back nicely and flourishing. "


Yet you recommend a G2 which does not have UV?

You need to read the whole thread, before you "bust" someone. He went back to radions.

The G2 has a lot more par than the hydra. That is about all I know about hydra.

Stomatopod1701
09/29/2013, 12:29 PM
Unless you want the controllablility or you like the aesthetics of the fixtures better (which admittedly they are) a reefbreeder photon 48 would allow you to grow anything in a 90.

BAETech2004
09/30/2013, 06:50 AM
They did upgrade to the PRO, so it is better.

You can sustain corals without UV. You might even grow some, but it will never, ever, be the same without UV.

People,including myself, have been growing the everliving s#@t out of coral(
sps included) using non-UV lighting fixtures....sustain my donkey. I run G2 Radion and it grows everything I have juuuuuuust fine. Sure, UV gives an advantage, but UV isn't a replacement for the entire formula of water quality and PAR in general.:hmm5:

Unless you want the controllablility or you like the aesthetics of the fixtures better (which admittedly they are) a reefbreeder photon 48 would allow you to grow anything in a 90.

+1
I know some people who have Photon series lights from Reefbreeders, whos tanks make my tank thier perverbial beach.

BAETech2004
09/30/2013, 06:52 AM
Lights, even with UV are no replacement for husbandry:)

FlyPenFly
09/30/2013, 09:30 AM
In this thread:

A lot of people who have no idea what they're talking about.

All of those lights will healthily and rapidly grow coral if you're doing everything else right. The only differences are pricing, controllability, and in the case of the Hydra, weakness at depth.

nanoreefer1000
09/30/2013, 01:49 PM
I'm a kid yet I know that UV is under 400nm, not 400+nm leds found in reef led fixtures lol
IMO go for a Razor, or maybe a Pacific Sun, if your willing to, a simple DIY fixture using either Luxeon M's or the Lumia multichip from ledgroupbuy would be your best bang for the buck.

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 03:55 PM
You know that huh? Well How about that, edumicate me boy :hammer:

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 04:17 PM
You know that huh? Well How about that, edumicate me boy :hammer:

From one of the numerous threads where you have tried to convince people that UV is a must have. :facepalm:



http://cdn.ldgi.com/wp-content/uploads/ultra-visible.jpg

340-400 Near Ultraviolet (UV; Invisible)
400-430 Violet
430-500 Blue
500-560 Green
560-620 Yellow to Orange
620-700 Orange to Red
Over 700 Near Infrared (IR; Invisible)


UV light effects on coral tissue
In nature, ultraviolet light waves (UV-A and UV-B) penetrate the ocean's surface but are filtered out as the light travels through the water. Both UV-A and UV-B light waves have been found to cause destruction of DNA and RNA within coral tissue. In response, many corals have made adaptations to reduce the effects of these harmful rays. These corals developed protective pigments that are often blue, purple, or pink in color. Most corals that contain these pigments come from shallow waters where the amount of UV-A and UV-B light is higher than in deeper areas of the reef.

In home reef aquariums that rely on metal halide lighting, it is important to protect corals from UV light. Coral without these protective pigments as well as shallow water corals that may have lost their pigments during transportation are especially susceptible to the effects of UV light. Fortunately, preventing any UV light from entering the aquarium is as simple as employing glass aquarium canopies and making sure the protective glass lens on the metal halide fixture is properly installed.

It is not uncommon for corals with these bright colors to adjust to the lower UV-A and UV-B conditions found within home aquariums. The loss of colorful pigmentation is not necessarily a sign of an unhealthy coral - it is simply a normal coral adjusting to its new environment.

So in conclusion - Do LED lamps for the aquarium world actually produce UV? (which is invisible)? The correct answer they produce the visible colour effects (violets) you would get in a T5 tube from mixing UV and different phosphor coatings depending on the final required colour output.

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 06:08 PM
It is a must, whether you call it UV or the UV spectrum if you want to be specific.

However, I will let you know how it compares to the Radion Pro as I just bought the Mitras 6200 today. Should be here this week.

Do you have either fixture? :fun2:

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 06:15 PM
It is Violet. My lighting works so I have no need in changing it numerous times and it is very heavy in Violet. For the record, I am a huge proponent of Violet. Do you know your rumblings about UV have already had one person looking to put UV reptile bulbs over his aquarium, from your misguided ramblings about UV being a must.

How sad it would have been if he had actually done that and damaged his corals.

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 06:19 PM
That is what I figured. When you can see the UV spectrum for yourself, then you can tell me I am wrong.

I speak from first hand experience, owning almost all of the major fixtures and testing them first hand.

I say again, an LED with the UV SPECTRUM is far superior to Reef Breeders (Chinese) or any other blue/white fixture.

Do they cost more? Yes. Are they worth it? Yes.

How does the Mitras 6200 UV Spectrum compare in the real world to the Radion Pro UV Spectrum? We are about to find out.

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 06:27 PM
Simply amazing.

nanoreefer1000
09/30/2013, 06:37 PM
Simply amazing. I completely agree
Also what car is in your av?

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 06:55 PM
Caricature of a 4th Generation Firebird.

Hurricane, I am truly sorry you are not grasping the concept of light below 400nm is UV and UV is not a desirable wavelength for aquaria. I don't know how to help you see so all that can be done is to try and make sure no one else decides to put reptile bulbs over their tanks. You have seen the graphs, you have seen the specs on the fixtures and should have seen that none peak below 400nm no matter what their marketing department chose to label it as. Both the Radion and the Mitra represent the top tier fixtures available and either will be more than adequate.

nanoreefer1000
09/30/2013, 07:01 PM
Caricature of a 4th Generation Firebird. Nice!

Hurricane, I am truly sorry you are not grasping the concept of light below 400nm is UV and UV is not a desirable wavelength for aquaria. I don't know how to help you see so all that can be done is to try and make sure no one else decides to put reptile bulbs over their tanks. You have seen the graphs, you have seen the specs on the fixtures and should have seen that none peak below 400nm no matter what their marketing department chose to label it as. Both the Radion and the Mitra represent the top tier fixtures available and either will be more than adequate. Truth

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 07:07 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about when someone wanted to put "reptile" bulbs over their tank, never saw that anywhere.

Regardless, let me refer you to http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr30w-pro/

Full spectrum output from ultraviolet (405nm) to hyper-red (660nm)


I believe that is stating "UV", don't you? I guess you better call Ecotech Marine and tell them that they are wrong.

nanoreefer1000
09/30/2013, 07:09 PM
They are hehehehe
You actually trust what these companies put on their websites? LMAO!

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 07:15 PM
Does GHL list it as UV or any place that understands light? I encourage you to find any scientific literature that defines light above 400nm as UV. What you will find is exactly what AQD posted. You can bury your head in the sand all you want or scream to the world that these lights are putting out a desirable UV but that will not make it so.

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 07:18 PM
They are hehehehe
You actually trust what these companies put on their websites? LMAO!

Come on Nano, I don't want to argue with an up and coming young man such as yourself. It just isn't fair for you.

Sirreal, if you think it is so false, then go to the Ecotech vendor forum and tell them.

WHATEVER you want to call it, I could care less, it makes a HUGE difference in your corals. You won't know until you can actually afford one to try.

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 07:22 PM
Here is the recent thread...I wonder where he got the idea? Though your recent silliness is not the only culprit, it really needs to stop, so people do not try and do this.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2336365

I would like to think you do not advocate people putting UV bulbs over their corals.

HurricaneSystem
09/30/2013, 07:27 PM
You dilettante,

That has nothing to do with me. Why don't you and your buddy Ron Reefman go post some more threads about the wonders of Chinese cheap LEDs that will not come close to anything that costs a bit more.

sirreal63
09/30/2013, 07:33 PM
Seriously? I am not a fan of Chinese imports of any kind. The only time I will suggest them is for those who are trying to go LED cheap. The only LEDs I will use are supplements to my MH. You are not much for doing research it would seem. You can call me anything you want, it only makes you smaller.

MrIcky
09/30/2013, 07:47 PM
The reefbreeders unit uses 410nm leds, it's as "ultraviolet" as 405nm is.

You're bouncing around from light to light like a puppy with too many toys and giving opinions like an expert. I'm not an expert and don't claim to be. I will tell you Sirreal knows his stuff. Ron Reefman may schill a little too much but he knows his stuff too. Slow down and listen a little.

Side note, I understand the Kessils actually do have a 'true' uv chip with a small 390ish bump but not enough energy to hurt anything.

To the OP, if money isn't an issue of those choices I'd choose the radions.

All Seas
09/30/2013, 08:12 PM
I was thinking about holding out until the Hydra 52 is released. Seems like the best of both worlds.

nikon187
09/30/2013, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=MrIcky;21949217]The reefbreeders unit uses 410nm leds, it's as "ultraviolet" as 405nm is.

You're bouncing around from light to light like a puppy with too many toys and giving opinions like an expert. I'm not an expert and don't claim to be. I will tell you Sirreal knows his stuff. Ron Reefman may schill a little too much but he knows his stuff too. Slow down and listen a little.




thank you!!


And before you jump down my throat yes i have a radion and a vega, hydra , sol , maxspect and mitras.the joys of running a fish store. ALL grow corals, some for yrs ( sol ) You act like an expert on led in general but have went from the radion to the vega to the kessils back to the radion in what 2 months. uv this uv that, led have been growing coral for 6 yrs, way longer than uv led ( violet once again ) have been used in any fixture


edit: oh and radion lol

xxvietxjustinxx
10/01/2013, 01:30 AM
Seriously? I am not a fan of Chinese imports of any kind. The only time I will suggest them is for those who are trying to go LED cheap. The only LEDs I will use are supplements to my MH. You are not much for doing research it would seem. You can call me anything you want, it only makes you smaller.

Why are you so against chinese imports? They make the vast majority of consumer products, both good and bad.

HurricaneSystem
10/01/2013, 08:02 AM
I am not against chinese imports, I think they serve a purpose in some market. Do they serve a purpose with SPS, etc. NO.

Would they be ok on some softies, etc. Yes.

I had one of the Taotronics 120w fixtures that had 2 switches, blue and white. I had that on one side of a 55 gallon for a year. Anemones, softies, etc. did just fine. SPS, no go.

It does put out quite a bit of PAR actually, but it just is not the right spectrum to grow more exotic corals. You must have the UV spectrum, whatever you want to call it, before you can grow different exotic corals.

I would LOVE to see an SPS,LPS tank that has had 0 UV spectrum and had it's lights for over 6 months. A before and after shot.

FlyPenFly
10/01/2013, 08:06 AM
It is a must, whether you call it UV or the UV spectrum if you want to be specific.

However, I will let you know how it compares to the Radion Pro as I just bought the Mitras 6200 today. Should be here this week.

Do you have either fixture? :fun2:

If you spent this much in resources and time concentrating on good husbandry your tank wouldn't be in the state that it's in.

I don't know how many people have told you the lights have nothing to do with the problems you had/have.

sirreal63
10/01/2013, 08:09 AM
Why are you so against chinese imports? They make the vast majority of consumer products, both good and bad.

Not the right thread for this discussion. The main reason is the trade deficit, and the loss of 2.8 million manufacturing jobs, and that figure does not include the supporting jobs that supply manufactures with goods and services. So far this year we have imported $231 billion dollars more from China than we have exported. Every year we lose more manufacturing, that is never a good thing.

FlyPenFly
10/01/2013, 08:10 AM
Hurricane: I will say you have a lot of cajones. For someone who posted how horrible his tank is doing, you certainly post like you're a TOTM expert.

HurricaneSystem
10/01/2013, 08:12 AM
This state? Remember this tank 2 weeks ago? Not husbandry. This is called an expert KNOWING what was wrong with the tank. Lighting, plain and simple.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r125/jason490/IMG_0247_zpse931beb3.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/jason490/media/IMG_0247_zpse931beb3.jpg.html)

FlyPenFly
10/01/2013, 08:34 AM
While I don't usually hate on people's tanks... that's not exactly an impressive anything.

MrIcky
10/01/2013, 08:54 AM
I am not against chinese imports, I think they serve a purpose in some market. Do they serve a purpose with SPS, etc. NO.

Would they be ok on some softies, etc. Yes.

I had one of the Taotronics 120w fixtures that had 2 switches, blue and white. I had that on one side of a 55 gallon for a year. Anemones, softies, etc. did just fine. SPS, no go.

It does put out quite a bit of PAR actually, but it just is not the right spectrum to grow more exotic corals. You must have the UV spectrum, whatever you want to call it, before you can grow different exotic corals.

I would LOVE to see an SPS,LPS tank that has had 0 UV spectrum and had it's lights for over 6 months. A before and after shot.

IIRC, Septembers TOTM may meet your requirements. He has a great build thread. I can't recall his name, Santoki maybe? but he's a wealth of information as well.


*edit*
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/137-tank-of-the-month

"Display Lighting: 3 Pendants, each have 24 Cree XR-E emitters; 12 white and 12 blue with 40 degree optics"


Also, there are entire threads several pages long with some very bright and informed membership. The consensus appears to be that even the cheap LED panels grow SPS, the problem is the SPS often changes color.

nanoreefer1000
10/01/2013, 09:02 AM
I am not against chinese imports, I think they serve a purpose in some market. Do they serve a purpose with SPS, etc. NO.

Would they be ok on some softies, etc. Yes.

I had one of the Taotronics 120w fixtures that had 2 switches, blue and white. I had that on one side of a 55 gallon for a year. Anemones, softies, etc. did just fine. SPS, no go.

It does put out quite a bit of PAR actually, but it just is not the right spectrum to grow more exotic corals. You must have the UV spectrum, whatever you want to call it, before you can grow different exotic corals.

I would LOVE to see an SPS,LPS tank that has had 0 UV spectrum and had it's lights for over 6 months. A before and after shot. Just saying, I've seen a lot of chinese fixtures over sweet sps tanks.

xxvietxjustinxx
10/03/2013, 11:38 PM
This state? Remember this tank 2 weeks ago? Not husbandry. This is called an expert KNOWING what was wrong with the tank. Lighting, plain and simple.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r125/jason490/IMG_0247_zpse931beb3.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/jason490/media/IMG_0247_zpse931beb3.jpg.html)


Your tank.. has.. nothing.

that Fish Guy
10/04/2013, 12:25 AM
The Radion has much more PAR than the Vega (Which is very Low - I was surprised).

The Hydra is actually half the PAR of the Vega too making it much much worse.

So I would go with the Radion.