How to breed clams....

[lebowski]

I have two maxima's right now, and I was wondering how to get them to breed... IF they ever let out their stuff.... How do I get them to have babies??? Are there female and male clams???

I want to breed some teardrops... If I could, I'd definetly sell these teardrops for like 80 each...:D ..

[holeinone1972]

Great thought, but it is not going to happen in your tank, or home setup.

You would need access to open water, and tons of money to get started. So your $80 figure would be more like $800.

There is someone here who has got them to spawn through injecting them, but has not had any success at raisng them.

This practice is best left to commercial farmers, in the tropics.

Believe me, I wish I could have successfully bred some of the clams I have seen.

Yes there are male and female clams.

By the way, if you can breed them, you can quit high school.

LOL

[RonN]

Yes there are male and female clams.

Clams are hermaphrodities, it is male and female in one. They are both genders.

Ron

[SeanT]

I remember reading in a thread here a while back that you would have to kill several dozen (if not hundreds) of clams to get the algae from them for the spawn of new clams.

Can't quite remember how it went.

The jist was: Not a chance at home.

[cal3v]

It would be very involved and much easier in large systems with large clams and as SeanT was kinda describing, they need to get zooxanthellae to start off from other clams so pieces of mantles are cut and blendered etc and then often centrifuged to get the zooxanthellae separate and use that to let the small ones gain their symbiotic algae.

[lebowski]

interesting.....

So......

How do they do it in the oceans? :confused:

[firechild]

Firstly, gender: Clams first develop as males (2-3 years for maximas) then secondly as females (7-9 years) but still possessing male gonads meaning as mature "females" they can produce eggs and sperm but spawn separately to avoid self fertilisation.

Secondly, fertilisation: It is difficult to get the right concentrations of sperm and eggs, clams are highly suscptable to polyspermy (fertilisation by two or more sperm) which renders them useless.

Thirdly, zooxanthellae innoculation: As mentioned, this usually involves taking mantle tissue and blending it before centrifuging the zoox which are then used to seed the juvenile clams. There are other methods but this is the easiest and most commonly practised.
In the wild, clams are constantly releasing zooxanthellae as their populations grow and conditions change. In a controlled environment such as an aquarium, conditions do not change often and so fewer zoox are released. The amount that would be free living in your tank would be too little to effectively innoculate a batch of juvenile clams.

[AgentSPS]

your first step would be to get a bigger tank. A spawning event in a 29 gal would almost certainly create a cespool in a matter of hours.

[mogurnda]

If you really want to do it, here's an aquaculture manual.

Clam Manual (http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_130631672860873095404.pdf)

[Eddie James]

If you really want to do it, here's an aquaculture manual.

Clam Manual (http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_130631672860873095404.pdf)

You just made my day 8 years later.

[moliken]

i saw vids of it being done in the pacific raising areas, like marshall islands, but it's involved, needs big clams, many water changes, only doable next to an ocean, few survivors, etc. will search for the link

[mogurnda]

You just made my day 8 years later.

Amazing that link still works.

[moliken]

here are a few that'll show how difficult it really is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSbrwwJCK6s
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hu8dXpwZGw&feature=player_embedded
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lki3PqLU8A&feature=player_embedded

[will46r]

Wow... internet zombies... but very cool thread!

[GreshamH]

Wow... internet zombies... but very cool thread!

Necroposters ;)

[will46r]

After wading through 160+ pages of papers it appears breeding clams is very easy if you have access to cheap labor, several clams (a few have to be sacrificed every fertilization), blender, syringes, microscope, assorted lab stuff and a business model that allows you to wait 16-18 months for a product ;)

Heck, don't we all have this laying around :D I could swipe all but the clams and business model from work. :D

[scapes]

plz try this will...i'd like to see a local do this :) better yet, attempt this in his 2.5 gallon aquarium :)

[will46r]

Heyyyy I do have other tanks, just not set up.

[BluScrnOdeth]

I think some are making this sound more complicated than it really is. Just because its done on a commercial ial farm doesn't mean it can't be done small scale(55+gal tank). Alot of you are making assumptions that clearly 99% of us have no clue about. Do you need all that equipment to get some clams growing.... no, does nature.... There are other ways to get them to breed without killing them. If I can find the PDF ill post it but what they did was sat them out in the sun to stress them out and then put them back in the water. Almost always it caused them to reproduce.

What I think should be done is more analyzing, less BS. Like for instance, how old do they have to be to reproduce, how can we get a concentration of zoo in there so we don't have to blend a clam, things like that. We mimic the sun all the time in our tanks to grow coral and raise clams in our tanks so that shouldn't be an issue.

I just bought 2 clams today and I'm def going to give it a shot as long as it doesn't involve blending my clams.

Housing mivcosoes and such, that's for when you are getting really serious and pushing it beyond a hobby. Sure we would all like to make some money off our tanks but that's not why we started the hobby. Go into business if you want to go so in-depth as to use a microscope. Let nature take its course in your home system and sell whatever does get created. You get what I'm saying. Its late, sorry if I don't get my point across.

[moliken]

the point you are neglecting is that yes, some clams spawn in home tanks, but their release of sperm/eggs is massive and can easily pollute the tank. you should hope the 2 you bought don't do it, not the other way around.

[BluScrnOdeth]

O have a 300g tank so I think I will be ok. I hope. I seen the other day how much sperm my urchin can put out. Sure did cloud the tank up. But my ATS will clean it.

[OrionN]

All you need to do is to stress a mature clam and they will spawn. Plenty of us have clams spawn in our aquarium. Calms are hermaphrodites, they will produce both sperms and eggs. The problem with clams reproduction in aquarium is that clams have no mechanism to prevent polyspermia (more than one sperm fertilize an egg). If this happen whit it will do in aquarium. then it will not develop.
There is one thread on RC where a reefer got one Derasa from spawn event several years ago. This in the only clam reproduction in aquarium that I ever read about.

[OrionN]

Here is a thread about one T. derassa that was the reproduction of a spawn of in a reefer's tank.
IMO, this really did happen, and not a hoax. I cam to this conclusion because:
1. the baby clam is really too small to be import to England (where this happened)
2. I know the OP and judge him to be trust worthy
It really too bad the way the thread turn out and it was closed. IMO, it is an interesting thread and deserved better than be close.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1723196&highlight=clam+reproduction

[BluScrnOdeth]

I agree, they were pretty harsh on him. They acted as if he should have been documenting something for a science exp. when it was a freak accident that it happened. I think I'll try to breed mine once i find out how old they are and get an idea on how i want to do it. I think in the home aquarium situation, you dont have to do it like the clam farms, cycling water, etc, etc.

But i think that if you can stress the clam to begin the process, you can isolate them to get the sperm, then do the same to get the eggs, then (if you dont have a microscope) estimate how many eggs there are (i think they are slightly visible if i remember correctly what i read) and then put a couple drops of sperm in there. Even if all the eggs dont get fertilized, hopefully it will decrease the amount of polyspermia that will happen.

I might get a microscope though since they can be rather cheap and try to make better estimates that way on how much sperm and egg content there is.

But first thing is first, age of clams. Because if i remember correctly (going off of several months ago of reading) They have to be 2 to develop sperm and 4 to develop eggs. I'll have to read that manual and see what it says tomorrow while im at work.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Great thought, but it is not going to happen in your tank, or home setup.

You would need access to open water, and tons of money to get started. So your $80 figure would be more like $800.

There is someone here who has got them to spawn through injecting them, but has not had any success at raisng them.

This practice is best left to commercial farmers, in the tropics.

Believe me, I wish I could have successfully bred some of the clams I have seen.

Yes there are male and female clams.

By the way, if you can breed them, you can quit high school.

LOL

replies like this are what baffle me.

"You would need access to open water, and tons of money to get started"

Thats like saying you need to do the same to even have fish in an aquarium. Who would have thought that we could stick them in a 24g aquarium.

"Yes there are male and female clams."

Clearly must not know anything about clams.

Not trying to start an argument, but lets think outside of the box. Just because someone does something a certain way doesnt mean thats the only way it works. Lets be a little more optimistic.

[moliken]

the clams are killed b/c they are the ones possessing the genetic characteristics the farmer wants to have continued--size for food or patterns for beauty, so that there's not just a wild chance of obtaining decent specimens
the thing is you are supposing it can be done w/out any consideration of anything else: why do it
risks to the tank inhabitants
success rate
your clams are much too immature
from what i see you do not have 2 clams of the same species, and didn't even know what species you did have
you like analogies, so here's a relevant one: any 2 dogs can mate and most offspring will be awful-looking. clams to sell for their looks are selected b/c of the parents beauty. you have no such selectivity available. if you were to get any larvae to survive, which is extremely unlikely, chances are you'd have mutts
thinking outside the box also assumes that the box is understood.
not trying to start an argument

[BluScrnOdeth]

I have 2 derasa clams, only one shown in the picture, part of the other is on the far right of the picture. I do feel that they are too yound as they are only 3-4" wide. I'm not saying it can be done without consideration of anything. (people make too many assumptions, polute the forums, just to complicate things because they cant wrap their minds around possabilites of making something happen). But thats what defines a lot of people, thats why Bill Gates, Hue Heff, Michael Dell, etc made it big while the rest of us sit back at out 9-5 jobs. They took the time to make it a reality rather than sit back and not attempt it just because someone who has no idea (not tried it) of what they are fully talking about.

If you have done experiments, know of others who have done it that i can read about, please do share. Otherwise we are wasting eachothers time with posting back and forth.

Maybe thats the problem with topics like this. Someone brings up an idea and people just assume that the person is crazy and that it should be done at the flip of a switch otherwise it cant be done. And just because someone says that it cant be done because of their misunderstanding it must be a golden rule because user X said so. When you rear Clown fish, do you not have to meet certain criteria for it to happen? This is no different.

I'm not saying that you just throw some clams in a tank, slap one around to stress it, and bam, 100 babies should pop out. Sure, it will take some playing with, some extra equipment (tubs, tanks, lights, etc), but i dont think that constitutes it as not being possible at home. But it doesnt make any sense that you would have to have a HUGE farm to raise them. Farms are for mass scale, doing at home could offer a couple spawns every so often to either sell, give to friends/family, or whatever.

"so that there's not just a wild chance of obtaining decent specimens"
From what i have read, there hasnt been any determination on what exactly makes the designs on the clams. I suspect its genetic, but would be interesting to know if anyone is out there genetically isolating strands of clams. I'm sure it has to be done by now.

[BluScrnOdeth]

here is a guy who claims that he has seen it happen in a 200g tank (I have a 300g).

http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1330598

JaredWaits
"Yeah, where some are wild and some are maricultured meaning they are farmed in the ocean. Its a type of aquaculture.

But I have to disagree with skinz78, as I have seen them spawn in an aquarium with my own two eyes...but the chances of their gametes actually producing offspring that lives and grows up to be an adult is slim...although possible.

Oh if your wondering what size the aquarium was it was a 200 gallon with a large foot print. "

[BluScrnOdeth]

here is another claiming it to have been done in a lab

http://************.com/2008/04/30/reef-ramblings-clamming-around-part-ii-spawning-tridacnids/

[OrionN]

The problem with raising clams in an aquarium are:
1. Get fertilized eggs. Really need to aspirate a small amount of eggs and sperms and really dilute it out to get a few fertilized eggs
2. Get to larvae to settle. I don't think it is hard or they need any special clue
3. Get the baby clams to obtain zooxanthellae. This is difficult. In the clam farms they ground up a mature clam in a blender and feed it to the larvae.
4. Good stable condition and protect the clams from predators. I am sure a lot of the crustaceans in the tank will find the baby clam tasty. They are too small to survive attack from these tiny crustaceans attack.

[BluScrnOdeth]

"too small to survive attack from these tiny crustaceans attack"
Ha, yeah, i' sure they are. It would only make sense that you would not have them in your main tank for the first week or two if you decided to breed them, otherwise survival of the fittest would take course and the odds would def be in the other players court.

The part I find toubling is having to destroy/cut another clam to get the Zoo to take hold of the babies. You would think that if you had 2-5 clams in your water that there would be enough floating around. I could see why farms would need to do it. They are onstantly bringing in new water (possibly far from clam sites that would poses greater amounts???). But if one has to be sacraficed for the greater good of the offspring, then i guess it has to be done. Though i wonder if the confinements of a home tank "could" posess enough free floating Zoo.

I have a refuge under my tank, i was thinking that if i could get big enough clams (or maybe the ones i have are old enough) to breed, then i could stick the hachlings down there on day 4 according to the clam manual. There is about 500 gph flow through there, but its so dispursed that its pretty calm about 3/4ths the way down. So they would be safe from preditors until they are a month old and could possible defend themselves.

[OrionN]

The predators I am talking about there are the pods and mysis. Mysis are carnivores. Many of the pods are omnivores. Not crabs, hermits, shrimps and the like are also huge predators for these clams.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Yeah but how much of a threat are they once the clam is lets say a year old? Cant really get around not having hermits in your tank. I dont feed live Mysis, so thats not an issue in my tank. Pods i could see being an infestation problem but i do have a Mandarin Goby in there that eat those so their population is kept pretty under control i would think... But yeah, all concerns to deal with, esp at such a young age, Maybe isolation for a couple years would be best. Or maybe thats just being too overprotective.

[OrionN]

All the Healthy tanks have pods and mysis. They come in with the LR. You can keep reef tank without hermits and ornamental shrimps. Many tank have crabs in them that come in with LR.
If you can get the through the first few months, I think they should be OK. IMO and observation Crocea spawns at about 2-3 inches. The younger ones only put out sperms and the larger one put out sperms first them after all the sperms are gone they stop for about 15 minutes then the eggs come out. Maxima start to spawn at about 4-5 inches. Just because they are big enough does not mean that will spawn. They have to be healthy enough and have enough calories to produce eggs and sperms.
The clam farm do biopsy of the clam to see the maturity of the gametes. Once they determine that the clams have mature eggs and sperm, they stressed the clam to induce spawn. One way they routinely use is to take the clam out of the water under the sun. I don't know how long but I am sure this depends on how big the clam is, A Derasa or Gigas will require longer and an Crocea I am not sure since Crocea are routinely exposed in low tide in nature.
FWIW, there are thousands of reefers who keep clams and there are countless spawn events in our tanks. No reefer have yet able to raise them other than that one accident in the thread I posed earlier. I am sure this is not because lack of trying. Some of us keep clams for 20+ years. I do not think you will be successful. This does not mean you should not try. I may eat my words in the next few months. Good luck. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
BTW, did you know that Holeinone used to import clams and sell them? While this does not mean he know about clams reproduction, but he does know how to keep these beautiful creatures
In out tank, often we hear clams spawn after water change or by shipping, or tank disaster etc....

[BluScrnOdeth]

No, i didnt know thats what he did. But it seems pretty pestamistic to just baintly say "It cant be done" without any provided basis.

Taking care of/raising are differnet than getting them to breed. I can take care of a Clown fish, doesnt mean i kno whow to make them breed. I think there is a way, a convenient way that it could be done at home. Practicle, maybe not in many eyes, but doable on a small scale. And if the "Clam Manual" along with the other sited i have read are correct about how to do it, then it shouldnt be all that complicated. Having the space and money to buy the equipment for small scale rearing seem to be one of 3 obsticles. The other two are fertilization and getting them their Zoo.

[BluScrnOdeth]

So i was just talking to my wife. She mesured the clam and said it was a little over 3 inches long. Without knowing for sure how old it is, we are going to do a little test. I'm 90% sure it will fail, but thats why it is a test. From all that i could find there is no way of knowing how old it is by looking at it and the store i bought it off of was of no help either, i have decided to do a stress test to see what it can secrete, if i can get it to at all. It appears to be healthy as you can see from the pictures. Full of color, white shell around the top, and stays wide open all day long. Granted i have only had this Clam for a couple days, but it seems that it was well taken care of at the store (they had it for around a month or two so they say). I'll do a heat stress test as it seems to be the least harmful.

If by an act of god i do get eggs, i'll hve two 5gal buckets filled with water from my DT to catch sperm in one, and a majority of the eggs in the other. I will then have to guestimate things from there as far as portions go for the primordial soup. I'll keep you updated on the results of this "Age Test".

From my understanding, Clams are capable of producing eggs around 3-4yrs old.

[OrionN]

I think it is a bad idea. Show us a picture of the clam and I can tell you if it is mature enough at 3 inches. About the only clam that is old enough at 3 inches is Crocea. The one clam you have that I seen is a Derasa which is very young at 3 inches.
If you stress the clam, you may end up with a dead clam.

[fish_dave]

I have spawned and raised Tridacna clams in the late 1990's. It will be very difficult to impossible for a hobbyist to do it in a landlocked house. As for getting Derasa to spawn we used 10 to 12 inch clams. In theory it should be possible at 6 inches but the stress would generally kill a 6 inch derasa and the eggs from a 6 incher would not be very viable in my opinion. I will attach a few photos of some breeder derasa clams. Crocea will spawn consistently at 4 inches and can supply good sperm at 3 inches however they are much more difficult to raise.

Dave

[BluScrnOdeth]

I have spawned and raised Tridacna clams in the late 1990's. It will be very difficult to impossible for a hobbyist to do it in a landlocked house. As for getting Derasa to spawn we used 10 to 12 inch clams. In theory it should be possible at 6 inches but the stress would generally kill a 6 inch derasa and the eggs from a 6 incher would not be very viable in my opinion. I will attach a few photos of some breeder derasa clams. Crocea will spawn consistently at 4 inches and can supply good sperm at 3 inches however they are much more difficult to raise.

Dave

Thanks for the picture and some insite. I guess i'll just have to wait, OR go buy some bigger ones which sounds better to me. I think thats what i'll do this weekend.

I wont test out my Derasa clams and wait. here is an image of the biggest one that i currently have. Last thing i want to do is harm these guys.

<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/clam1.jpg" width="600" height="450">

As we can see, my wifes measuring was a little off which led me to believe there might be a possibility that it could be done so early. With them being so small, i dont think that i would even attempt it if no one said anything.

[OrionN]

That is a Derasa and it is way too young

[will46r]

I think the main issue with breeding clams at home is:

It's most likely not going to be successful in an aquarium with other livestock

It's a long term project

Most people do not believe it can be done

Lack of information about clam aquaculture except at the commercial scale.

[BluScrnOdeth]

I think the main issue with breeding clams at home is:

It's most likely not going to be successful in an aquarium with other livestock

It's a long term project

Most people do not believe it can be done

Lack of information about clam aquaculture except at the commercial scale.

I agree, which is why i dont think it is something that should be tried and refined till it works. I agree though, it would not work in a tank with livestock. But once they reach the two week age, i think that they should be able to enter the tank again (even if its just the refuge for 6months).

[scapes]

wow! Those are some big ole derasa's fish dave :eek:

[moliken]

maybe nuclear fusion can occur also, but somehow not in the home lab. the discussion is just silly. gigas can release a half billion gametes into a system, maximas less, but staggeringly large numbers that will overwhelm your miniscule system, including the protein skimmer that you'd have to shut off to collect the larvae. a little knowledge is certainly a dangerous thing. if someone has not even kept clams alive for any length of time, they should not be talking about breeding them. ignoring all information but the opinion that it can be done is just foolish.

[BluScrnOdeth]

maybe nuclear fusion can occur also, but somehow not in the home lab. the discussion is just silly. gigas can release a half billion gametes into a system, maximas less, but staggeringly large numbers that will overwhelm your miniscule system, including the protein skimmer that you'd have to shut off to collect the larvae. a little knowledge is certainly a dangerous thing. if someone has not even kept clams alive for any length of time, they should not be talking about breeding them. ignoring all information but the opinion that it can be done is just foolish.

Wow man, you clearly havent read anything that i have posted. Doing fusion in a home is a little different than breeding livestock (You are comparing apples to oranges).

My miniscule system is 300gallons, I WOULD NOT BREED THEM IN MY TANK. i dont know how many times i have to tell you this. I do not use a protein skimmer, i use an ATS. If you would actually take the time to read what has been typed maybe your comments wouldnt be so ignorant.

All I'm saying is that you dont need a huge farm to grow them. Maybe a few little tanks for the first couple weeks and then you could put them in a refuge tank where they are most unlikely to be harmed to mature. Maybe i need to draw a diagram for you to visually see what im talking about.

A couple posts back i also mentioned that i would collect the secretions in a 5gal bucket. One for eggs and another for the sperm.

Read a little, assume less.

I fyou have something constructive to say, then I'll listen and take your advice. If you dont want to be a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.

[moliken]

unfortunately, the solution is the problem in this case.
you are not talking about breeding livestock as you say. that's the apple/orange comparison. mine to nuclear fusion is much more accurate a comparison.
you are talking about a process that is way beyond the capabilities that home aquarists have, yourself included.
as before, keep a clam alive a year while you do serious research, then attempt whatever you choose to. but claiming that raising clams can be done with your level of experience of a week of keeping 2 alive is just typing letters on a keyboard.
i'm trying to keep your clams alive.
you already wanted to take them out to stress them with heat, #1 indication of what you do not know.
you contradict people who have done it successfully, #2
you disregard minh's opinions #3
you did not even know which type of clam you have #4
the issue/problem is not my negativity, but your own insistence that it can be done

[BluScrnOdeth]

unfortunately, the solution is the problem in this case.
you are not talking about breeding livestock as you say. that's the apple/orange comparison. mine to nuclear fusion is much more accurate a comparison.
you are talking about a process that is way beyond the capabilities that home aquarists have, yourself included.
as before, keep a clam alive a year while you do serious research, then attempt whatever you choose to. but claiming that raising clams can be done with your level of experience of a week of keeping 2 alive is just typing letters on a keyboard.
i'm trying to keep your clams alive.
you already wanted to take them out to stress them with heat, #1 indication of what you do not know.
you contradict people who have done it successfully, #2
you disregard minh's opinions #3
you did not even know which type of clam you have #4
the issue/problem is not my negativity, but your own insistence that it can be done

Instead of arguing with you about how i know that it can be done, and am willing to test it out. Science prevails and allows us to do things we couldnt imagine, like keeping fish happy in a tank.

But i couldnt find Mihns post about his opinions so if you could find them for me i'll reread them. I dont recall seeing it, nor am i able to locate it. I'll look again.

But anyway, here is where i see the problem:
"the issue/problem is not my negativity, but your own insistence that it can be done"

You just assume that it cannot be done by any hobbyist, and that we are all apparently "dumb". But thats ok, i can take the criticism.

I'm going to use your negativity in a positive way. So, what issues do you see with doing it at home. Space? Water quality, time, etc?

You mentioned about how much junk these creatured can secrete. I think i mentioned before that i have witnessed how much a species can secrete, a couple times actualy. My long spine urchin just did this a week ago. Clouded the crap out of my 300g plywood tank, that i built myself. My ATS cleaned it up pretty well, water was crystal clear again the next day and did my water quality tests, nothing changed.

So with the secretion, there is a solution that i see. The eggs have to be fertilized within 15min or they are useless. So lets say, when the reproduction begins, you put the clam in a 5gal bucket. When the eggs are released, you hurry and put it in another 5gal bucket.

That should take care of ruining your tank and polyspermia for the time being.

We will move onto the other steps once we have ironed out this much of the process.

fish_dave gave some constructive insite to the breeding of my Derasa clams. they use 10" but possibly could use 6". 10" Derasa clams here are 299 each.... Once we get something established (a method of possibility), i'll go buy a couple.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Common Moliken. You had so much to say the other day about how this cant be done. But now you have nothing to say about my last post which makes it an alternative to it being possible?

[OrionN]

Just wait until you do. It is pretty near impossible. Thousand of spawn events in our tank per year, hundred of thousand eggs/sperm per event. None, maybe one Derasa come from all of this. I would estimate you will be successful once in a billion time.
I an tell you that we have not raise clams in our tank, and it is not because of lack of trying with experience reefers. 300 g is a drop in the ocean. My system is 500 g (DT8'V30"X30" plus 240 g tank for a sump). At one time I have 20+ clams in my system of all 5 species. Suck the eggs and sperms out as they being spawn, dilute them, turn off skimmer. I tried them all. Good luck to you but I don't think you will try anything that other people have not try.
Just don't gloat until you have some positive result. You are still very inexperience regarding keeping clams.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Well with your 500g, when you tried to keep them, what went wrong? Why was it not all that successful. Instead of telling people that its near imposible, how about we share our experience and try to improve it.

I'm thinking to protect them, you have to do it just like in the manual. they have a hatching tank, seperate from our DT. This way pods and such cant effect them while in the first two week process. I'm not gloating, nor will i, even if i get 10+ to actually survive. I just want to figure out why its so tough to do at home and make it work. And yet all i read about is that it cant be done in your DT. Which i understand. So if you seperate it form your DT, like many people do with breeding fish, why is this still not plausible?

[scapes]

gosh, i've had a gigas for 5 years, and 4 other clams at the moment. i've probably owned 30+ other clams at one time or another. in all the years i've had clams, i've never had one spawn...never. good luck in this project!

[BluScrnOdeth]

gosh, i've had a gigas for 5 years, and 4 other clams at the moment. i've probably owned 30+ other clams at one time or another. in all the years i've had clams, i've never had one spawn...never. good luck in this project!

Have you tried to breed them? Have they every tried on their own? Was it done only in your DT?

[scapes]

no, i've never tried to breed them. i have seahorses and they're time consuming enough. I stated they have NEVER spawned, so you ask have they tried...i'm assumming no they have no tried on their own as they have never spawned. you ask "was it done only in your DT?" what was done....

[BluScrnOdeth]

no, i've never tried to breed them. i have seahorses and they're time consuming enough. I stated they have NEVER spawned, so you ask have they tried...i'm assumming no they have no tried on their own as they have never spawned. you ask "was it done only in your DT?" what was done....

i wasnt sure what you meant by never spawned. If they have tried and never worked out or if they plainly never tried. And i was asking if they have if it was done in your DT.

Seems the main issue is that with them spawning is that it cant be done in the DT because of preditors. Everything loves hatchlings, high in nutrients and such. So it makes sense that it wouldnt work in anything other than an enlcosed system till they are old enough. Which from everything i have read seems to be after a couple weeks to a month.

[will46r]

One thing to consider is that if someone is able to do it at home they're most likely unwilling to share their process because it would impinge on their revenue

[BluScrnOdeth]

true, which could also be conspiracy for all the hate towards talking about it on here. esp from Modiken. Though i thought this was a forum to help others, not pursuade them from pinching your greed. lol

[moliken]

hey bsod, i never once put forth any hatred. i don't know you or care about you enough to say anything derogatory about you. all i am looking out for is your clams. more than you must be doing. now it's money? before it was science. try anything you want, but don't sacrifice any clams. now if i wanted to say something negative about you, i could easily say that you have no experience in how to keep a clam alive for any length of time, let alone breed them. no hatred, just truth, so don't get sensitive about criticism.

[moliken]

Common Moliken. You had so much to say the other day about how this cant be done. But now you have nothing to say about my last post which makes it an alternative to it being possible?
simple, i have nothing to add that hasn't been said by myself, minh, fish dave, or scapes. you pursue your ill-thought-out plan regardless of what is put plainly before your face. why comment?

[BluScrnOdeth]

hey bsod, i never once put forth any hatred. i don't know you or care about you enough to say anything derogatory about you. all i am looking out for is your clams. more than you must be doing. now it's money? before it was science. try anything you want, but don't sacrifice any clams. now if i wanted to say something negative about you, i could easily say that you have no experience in how to keep a clam alive for any length of time, let alone breed them. no hatred, just truth, so don't get sensitive about criticism.

I wasnt saying hatred towards me, and it has nothing to do with money to me. The guy before me mentioned that it would impede on peoples revenue. I never once said that i was doing this for money and clearly stated that this forum should be to help people, not deny people to keep your profits. I think you need to learn how to read or something.

For me it is science and am willing to share anything that i find out. I will be posting as many pics as i can as well to share what i have done so that it can be built upon to improve.

I was talking to a friend of mine and we will be building out testing ground hopefully within 2 weeks. We are going to go over our plans and acquire mature clams. We will test out the clams after a month of having them in our tank to ensure that it is healthy and stress free.

If you have any advice on taking care of them, i'm all ears. I have read articles over the past 6mo before we picked up these little guys. If there are any key factors that typical beginners miss, and that i might have overlooked, please speak up. It doesnt seem difficult to keep them happy or to identify any troubles as long as you keep proper water conditions and light intensity. If any signs show, i have a few pages bookmarked for quick reference.

[moliken]

I wasnt saying hatred towards me, and it has nothing to do with money to me. The guy before me mentioned that it would impede on peoples revenue. I never once said that i was doing this for money and clearly stated that this forum should be to help people, not deny people to keep your profits. I think you need to learn how to read or something.

For me it is science and am willing to share anything that i find out. I will be posting as many pics as i can as well to share what i have done so that it can be built upon to improve.

I was talking to a friend of mine and we will be building out testing ground hopefully within 2 weeks. We are going to go over our plans and acquire mature clams. We will test out the clams after a month of having them in our tank to ensure that it is healthy and stress free.

If you have any advice on taking care of them, i'm all ears. I have read articles over the past 6mo before we picked up these little guys. If there are any key factors that typical beginners miss, and that i might have overlooked, please speak up. It doesnt seem difficult to keep them happy or to identify any troubles as long as you keep proper water conditions and light intensity. If any signs show, i have a few pages bookmarked for quick reference.
ok. you ready to shell out big $$ for larger clams?
what are your lights that you plan on using?
drip acclimation, burp clams.
moderate flow and not directly on the clam.
check for pyr snails and any other pests, before any purchase. list water params.

[BluScrnOdeth]

ok. you ready to shell out big $$ for larger clams?
what are your lights that you plan on using?
drip acclimation, burp clams.
moderate flow and not directly on the clam.
check for pyr snails and any other pests, before any purchase. list water params.

Yes i am, i have the money to do so. I plan on using either LED like i built on my current tank or i might use some PC lights. Not sure yet, i havent looked into other lights yet aside from my LEDs since there is still plenty of time. I know how to drip acclimate so we can check that off the list. I have read about burping and done it on my small clams and it went rather well as described in one of the forums on here. I dont like to get LFS water in my tank so the only time it was out of water was wen i put it in my tank. I checked the ones i have for snails and anything else i could visibly see and looked rather clean and all the other clams in the area looked clean as well.
I am keeping moderate flow (the mantal isnt blowing around, not even causing it to flutter).

I did a water quality check just yesterday:
I have a Mg and PO4 test kit on the way as the 3 closest LFS's didnt have any. I guess they are more into just selling stuff than you actually taking care of them.

Alk: 13.1
Calc: 430
NO2: 0
NH3/NH4: 0
PH: 8.2
NO3: 0-5 (color looked really close to both)

[BluScrnOdeth]

Also during this time till i can build this setup to rear clams, i will be buying a few strains of algae.
Tetraselmis: HUFA-~5% EpA-~6%
produces two antibiotic-like compounds thats a plus but is rather large in size (9-14um)

Nannochloropsis oculata: HUFA-16-43% EPA-High DHA-Low
easy to culture size: 2-4um

Isochrysis galbana: HUFA-2-4% EPA-3-4.2%
supposed to be rather easy size: 4-7um

Nanno and Iso will be used on the first feeding (though may not be needed but i want to ensure best chance of success) plus their size is rather close so they can get a variety IF they even eat the stuff. Plus the two sort of help balance where the other one lacks. Though Tetra would be a better substitute for Iso but i worry about its size.

Sometime this weekend I'll get a drawing put together of how i will do the plumbing and stuff for the hatchery resting place till they are a couple months old.

[scapes]

ok you two.........

BSOD, let me explain a tad where Moliken is coming from, and about this site a bit. There is another thread on here where a guy decided to do a build thread on a rimless 10g tank. ok, so i chime in and say that 10gs are not made to have their RIMS taken off and that he was doing this "experiment" as he liked to call it at his office. Ok, me being a business owner myself, i took great offense to this as it not only urked me he was doing an experiment with corals/fish with a tank that was NOT made for this and that he was doing this at a place of business that was NOT HIS OWN. If one of my employees did this "experiment" at my place of business and 10g of saltwater had gotten all over the floor and had killed all this reefstock i would be ticked. did he care? no, and so my life went on.. the OP made his case, and i said "well i'm obviously not going to change your mind". me and the OP of this thread had some heated words, yes, but they were not in hatred on either ends. I was merely expressing my concern not only for the livestock but for a place of business that was obviously not his.

so, what moliken is saying is that you are attempting a task that is very hard to accomplish at best. I honestly don't know, but from what everyone else has said, it is. But, there is always that "risk taker", just like in the build thread i mentioned above, and I guess you are the one in this thread about this certain issue.

You have made your case in the breeding of clams. it sounds like you have thought this out, have plans, and are in the works and are not changing your mind. Moliken is just expressing his doubts/questions/concerns as this seems like to him and to us an impossible task and he is an owner of quite a few clams and all he is doing is looking out for the well being of your clams or the clams you will be purchasing. Don't take it as "hatred".

If you do end up doing this, then i would suggest you getting out of this thread and starting your own. you can do your own build thread and all of us can ask questions/express concerns, etc. But speaking from my own experience with clams, truly after 6 years of being in this hobby, I can finally say i think i can successfully keep a clam. clams are so temperamental, so hard to keep, and i can't tell you how many threads i have read where people have said they've had X clam for this long and it just killed over dead one night, as has happened to me on many of nights. these facts are what moliken is merely trying to make.

whew! that made me tired and i'm ready for another drink ;)

[BluScrnOdeth]

i get what you are saying. I dont want to harm or kill anything and I'm doing this at a place of MY BUSINESS, my home, thats where i work, so dont worry, if i mess anything up i can only be mad at me lol. He stresses concerns, i ask questions, and all i get is the same replies that dont answer any of my questions. I think of solutions, and get no reply back... All i want are answers. If you dont know, then say so. i'm not trying to be a *****, but this is something that i want to do and if there is nothing that is a definite cant do, other than its going to be very difficult, then i'm going to do all that i can to make it easy, safe, or whatever. doing a 10g rimless, the math can prove that it wouldnt work. But so far i havent seen any evidence that doing it at home will not work.

Once i get everything setup and ready to go, i will start a new thread with videos etc. But i would like to keep this open for preliminary reasons if thats ok.

[scapes]

Once i get everything setup and ready to go, i will start a new thread with videos etc. But i would like to keep this open for preliminary reasons if thats ok.

perfect, can't wait ;) good luck

[moliken]

Yes i am, i have the money to do so. I plan on using either LED WHAT LEDS?? like i built on my current tank or i might use some PC lights INSUFFICIENT PAR. Not sure yet, i havent looked into other lights yet aside from my LEDs since there is still plenty of time. I know how to drip acclimate so we can check that off the list. I have read about burping and done it on my small clams and it went rather well as described in one of the forums on here. I dont like to get LFS water in my tank so the only time it was out of water was wen i put it in my tank. I checked the ones i have for snails AT NIGHT?? and anything else i could visibly see and looked rather clean and all the other clams in the area looked clean as well.
I am keeping moderate flow (the mantal isnt blowing around, not even causing it to flutter).

I did a water quality check just yesterday:
I have a Mg and PO4 test kit on the way as the 3 closest LFS's didnt have any. I guess they are more into just selling stuff than you actually taking care of them.

Alk: 13.1
Calc: 430
NO2: 0
NH3/NH4: 0
PH: 8.2
NO3: 0-5 (color looked really close to both)
SG??
water changes??
salt brand??
test kit brand??
don't understand the 10 gallon tank you mention in the other post:
"doing a 10g rimless, the math can prove that it wouldnt work."

[scapes]

don't understand the 10 gallon tank you mention in the other post:
"doing a 10g rimless, the math can prove that it wouldnt work."

moliken....come on now honey read the threads. that's something i wrote relating to a totally different thread and has nothing to do what he's working on

[moliken]

ooops. that's exactly why i didn't understand it.lol

[BluScrnOdeth]

SG??
water changes??
salt brand??
test kit brand??
don't understand the 10 gallon tank you mention in the other post:
"doing a 10g rimless, the math can prove that it wouldnt work."

SG is 1.024
I use Instant Ocean salt
Water changes... Well i do them once every 6mo or so. I use supplements and have to replace 5g of water every couple days so it gets plenty of trace elements.
Test kit- Salifert for Alk and Calc and Aquarium Pharmaceuticals for everything else.
The supplements i use are: Kent Marine coral accel, coral-vite and Marine Snow. Anything i should add?

[scapes]

i've heard that coral accel & coral-vite are a waste of money. i used to use these two when i first started and heard it was just a waste of money. don't know anything about marine snow

[BluScrnOdeth]

i have only bought one bottle. i havent noticed any difference so i'll prob stop using it and do more water changes so that i can ensure they are getting enough trace elements. i dont know if my tap water has all the essential elements that the habitants need, thats why i figured i would give it a shot.

[moliken]

not rodi water? tap water?
IO IS NOT A GOOD SALT IMHO.
raise sg, but if youre not using a refractometer, get one and get it calibrated.
marine snow is not a supplement. it's a food for filter feeders.

[BluScrnOdeth]

No I don't use rodi, tap only. It strips it of everything. What good is that. Plus my tap water has a Ph of 8.1 so its good at helping maintain levels. To you why is IO not good salt? It doesn't throw my quality out of wack or anything.
I do plan on getting a refractometer. But I have more things to worry about. My hydrometer is pretty good. Its not accurate but at least its consistently inaccurate. And I don't want to raise my salinity. As water evaporates from my tank it gets raised a little and 1.024 is in the green zone. Why should I raise it?

[moliken]

No I don't use rodi, tap only. It strips it of everything. What good is that. Plus my tap water has a Ph of 8.1 so its good at helping maintain levels. To you why is IO not good salt? It doesn't throw my quality out of wack or anything.
I do plan on getting a refractometer. But I have more things to worry about. My hydrometer is pretty good. Its not accurate but at least its consistently inaccurate. And I don't want to raise my salinity. As water evaporates from my tank it gets raised a little and 1.024 is in the green zone. Why should I raise it?
who knows what your tap water contains--arsenic, chloramines, people meds, lead, etc?
ask or read around about IO.
what kinda hydrometer do you have? floating, swing arm? how old? if it's consistent it could still be off, potentially far off, from normal. i did say not to raise sg until you get a calibrated refracto. a better sg for clams is slightly above 1.025 up to 27, according to fatheree, pg 149.
simple: do things your way, or accept what others say and evaluate each. no hatred or accusations, but chances of what you'd consider "success" are greater with exactitude and precision, plus quality.

[BluScrnOdeth]

who knows what your tap water contains--arsenic, chloramines, people meds, lead, etc?
ask or read around about IO.
what kinda hydrometer do you have? floating, swing arm? how old? if it's consistent it could still be off, potentially far off, from normal. i did say not to raise sg until you get a calibrated refracto. a better sg for clams is slightly above 1.025 up to 27, according to fatheree, pg 149.
simple: do things your way, or accept what others say and evaluate each. no hatred or accusations, but chances of what you'd consider "success" are greater with exactitude and precision, plus quality.

I cant recall what all is in my water but we get a quarterly statement from our water company that lists a bunch of stuff. What it doesnt list, i'm not sure either.

OK, i havent read that 1.025 was better, i'll work on that and pick a refractometer online, any suggestions? I dont remember the name of the hydrometer i have but it was one from Jacks, a swing arm.

[moliken]

I cant recall what all is in my water but we get a quarterly statement from our water company that lists a bunch of stuff. What it doesnt list, i'm not sure either.

OK, i havent read that 1.025 was better, i'll work on that and pick a refractometer online, any suggestions? I dont remember the name of
the hydrometer i have but it was one from Jacks, a swing arm.

i kinda figured that. swing arms are notoriously inaccurate. build up of salts and general problems. i'd recommend any refracto over 25$. but it must be calibrated, so make sure there is a standard calibration fluid included or that you order some w/the meter, before you make ANY salinity adjustments using a swing arm

[BluScrnOdeth]

Ok. Ill order one in a sec online. I had been looking at some that had the thermal compensation and they came with water to calibrate. I think it was 50 including shipping. Don't remember what brand though.

[Jabrams]

tagging along.

[BluScrnOdeth]

might want to follow along here then http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18449018#post18449018

[rottbo]

Ok I have a little bit to add hopefully I don't get flamed... I hope you can succeed but ther are many inherent problems with this in a closed system I researched t years back and got tons of advice from a friend that used to work with a clam farm in the pacific one problem you are gonna have is keeping them fed till they are large enough to sell this tales awhile sometimes ears to get big enough, second is you will need a closed system with absolutely no life besides the clams in it the invertebrates in our systems will kill small clams (think his point has been brought up,) last problem I see is that you will need a good digital microscope to do this right not only will you need this to properly mix eggs and sperm but you will need it to closely watch be growth of the clams and to be able to space them as needed as they grow. I hope you can succeed but I never tried for the point of time and money it will take to raise them to market size plus i didnt want to look at an empty sand bed till they were big enough to see with the naked eye. Lastly and I will probally get crap for this but I do believe this is possible and so do some experts but it will take perfection to do