Crashed rotifer culture

[HowManyClowns]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to clownfish breeding and just finished setting up my broodstock tanks this weekend.

So I have had a rotifer culture going for a few weeks and sure enough right when one of my pairs is about to lay their first clutch I have managed to crash it!

Anyway, I am trying to start it again from dormant cysts in the bottom of the crashed culture. I syphoned out all of the water (almost) and tried to leave the stuff on the bottom (per Joyce Wilkerson's book). Filled with fresh SW at 1.014 and I put a light on it and a sponge filter in there as well (which I had in the culture)

I am having second thoughts about the sponge filter, maybe it will suck up the few that hatch?

Any thoughts?

[D-Nak]

I'd get rid of the sponge filter. Keeping your water quality in check is done with frequent (daily) harvesting/water changes.

[_shorty_]

What was your maintenance schedule/routine on the culture? I'm trying to learn everything I can. I'd be interested to hear other's advice on how to change that routine in order to better maintain your cultures.

[D-Nak]

I pretty much just follow the instructions on the RM site, I just have one bucket heated and one not.

http://reedmariculture.com/support_rotifers_culturing.php

[HowManyClowns]

I think I was maybe overfeeding. I noticed an explosion of rotifers about a few days before the crash. I was harvesting EVERY day 30% + replaced with NSW. I was feeding 2-3ml Rotigrow twice a day.

Also added Amquel plus every few days

[HowManyClowns]

What about syphoning off detritus from the bottom, how often should I be doing that?

[HowManyClowns]

That could be another reason, I was pulling out jugs instead of siphoning every day

[D-Nak]

I think I was maybe overfeeding. I noticed an explosion of rotifers about a few days before the crash. I was harvesting EVERY day 30% + replaced with NSW. I was feeding 2-3ml Rotigrow twice a day.

Also added Amquel plus every few days

I started with RGComplete and plan to stick with it. It's easy to use since it's got a buffer and ammonia neutralizer built in. I feed 10mL in the morning. The concentration of RGComplete is different though, since it's basically diluted RGPlus.

2-3mL 2x day sounds like a lot, but I haven't done the comparison.

[D-Nak]

What about syphoning off detritus from the bottom, how often should I be doing that?

I don't do this very often. I just stir up the bucket and wipe down the sides with the floss. Then I filter the water through a set of sieves, ending with a 53 micron one. I discard the water, then slow drip in prepared salt water. I take the rotifers that are in the sieve, give them a quick rinse with water from the fry tank, and invert the sieve into a plastic measuring container, taking more water from the fry tank to rinse the rotifers into the container. I then slowly pour this into the fry tank.

When the buckets start to get really mucky on the bottom (every couple of weeks) I start a new culture. I slowly remove the top portion of the water with the rotifers in it (maybe 1/4 of the bucket). Then I dump the rest out and clean the bucket. I filter the water with the rotifers to remove any large particles, then dump this back into the bucket that's now clean. Then I slowly drip in salt water, then feed about half of what I normally feed. I wait a few days then start harvesting this bucket.

That could be another reason, I was pulling out jugs instead of siphoning every day

Pulling out jugs? If you mean removing the rotifer water using a cup (I use a 4 cup measuring cup), then it should be fine.

[HowManyClowns]

Thanks a lot for the info, I am gonna kill the sponge, and reduce feeding!

[SantaMonica]

I think Reed has some type of automatic or flow-through cultivator of some type, although I've not been able to find it. Maybe it would make the process easier.

[reefstew]

I never heard of anyone using a sponge filter on rotifer cultures. Your sucking the live rotifers in the filter. Your salinity on the culture is to low. They will live but do better around 1.020. When refilling the culture who has time for a drip refill? Just refill it they will do fine if the salinity & temp is the same.

[HowManyClowns]

Sponge filter seems to be pretty popular on the forums. Ideal salinity according to reed mariculture and Joyce Wilkerson's book is 1.10 - 1.014 for reproduction although they tolerate a wide range.

I talked to one of the guys from Reed this weekend at RAP, he said I was overfeeding for sure

[GreshamH]

I think Reed has some type of automatic or flow-through cultivator of some type, although I've not been able to find it. Maybe it would make the process easier.

We do not. We offer the CCS, or if you want to pay to have us consult you at your facility, we could help you design one and source the parts. Nothing replaces the human labor aspect of harvest, counting and cleaning though.

RGcomplete is ~1/3 the density of RGcomplete.

~11 ml of RGcomplete = ~1 million rotifers.
~4 ml of RG + = ~ 1 million rotifers

Of course there is more to counts then just feed, but the above is a good general rule.

So a twice daily feeding of 2-3 ml of RG+ is more than most do, but with good enough care and a ramp up, your culture should be able to handle that amount of feed. To put it in prospective, we burn a liter of RG+ a day in just one of our production systems. Between counting, harvest and cleaning, our tech spends over an hour a day on that system alone. Many large hatcheries have dropped rotifer culturing all together and simply order a few hundred million, or billion at a time and drop having to staff the culture room. It's extremely hard to keep cultures as clean as we produce in terms of lack of contaminants. We're the only company to can stand by the claim of clean rotifers cultures and we work extremely hard at it. Our rotifer room bio-security is pretty insane.

RGcomplete is far more forgiving and produces a cleaner culture.

FWIW prior to your daily harvest/WC you should lightly scrub the bucket and swirl up the detritus. pH is a true concern, besides ammonia build up, so I'd use a buffered ammonia controller rather then Amquel +.

Do any of you count your rotifers?

[GreshamH]

Sponge filter seems to be pretty popular on the forums. Ideal salinity according to reed mariculture and Joyce Wilkerson's book is 1.10 - 1.014 for reproduction although they tolerate a wide range.

I talked to one of the guys from Reed this weekend at RAP, he said I was overfeeding for sure

That would have been Chad as I did not answer many questions at RAP re: rotifer cultures. He's our Live Feed Supervisor and knows his stuff!

For hobbyists, we recommend these specs:

http://apbreed.com/product_compact_culture_system.php#tab_specs

Salinity: 10-35 ppt (S.G. 1.0075 - 1.026), optimum 15-20 ppt
Temperature: 27°C/80°F (L rotifer type); 30°C/86°F (S rotifer type)
pH: 7-8 is optimal, 6.7 min, 8.5 max
Ammonia: Maximum 1 mg/L NH3
Suggested Feed: RGcomplete
Feed Rate: 11 mL per million rotifers to be harvested
Optimal Feedings per Day: "Continuous" feeding (~ every 3 hours)
Minimum Feedings per Day: at least 2x per day for good production
Harverst Rate: 20 to 30% Daily

[HowManyClowns]

Thanks very much for the info Gresham, much appreciated! Chad was very helpful too!

Here is what I found on sponge filters:

http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=2349&start=0

Any opinions? I currently don't have any rotifer floss, and I would rather wait until I need to make another purchase from Reed to save on shipping.

[_shorty_]

Note I have NO experience so far. But it seems reasonable to do. The way I understand it, it's pretty much the same concept as reed's floss system, except that the filter floss may be a more ideal medium than the sponge considering the rotifers, and the fact that the reed version works the whole height of the bucket. I think the advantage of the sponge vs the reeds system would be potentially holding more nitrifying bacteria, but less vertical surface area to capture the detritus.

Anyone ever put a couple pieces of live rock in thier cultures for that reason? for purpose of bacteria, I would choose rock over sponge.

[GreshamH]

Its not the same concept, ad I noted in the thread.

The floss is a mechanical filter, specifically used for the capture of rotifer feces and algae flock, but not capture rotifers. While it provides surface area for bacteria, using our methods there is not need for the bacteria. The ammonia is neutralized. Given the amount of waste rotifers produce, I don't think a sponge filter will be as advantageous as you think.

If you use live algae, there is less a need for filtration as the algae consumes the ammonia as a food source.

In all my travels, emails, etc, no one has used sponge filters in their rotifer culture systems. I suspect if you ask Kathy (thread starter), she'll say she's not using a sponge filter. FWIW I don't think she posts here much anymore.

[_shorty_]

thanks for clarification. I agree your product is more than likely superiour for the application. I was just pointing out similarities - as a 'why not' since it provides some of the same benifets of sucking up the waste (but to a lesser degree than yours).

[GreshamH]

Sponge filters have a much larger pore size and won't be that effective at all at picking up debris in the sub 50µm range. They are truly designed to capture the least amount of debris as that clogs them and thus disrupts the ability to pass water over the surface colonized with bacteria to consume the ammonia. What little debris that is capture would be what ever is in the small amount of water captured in the sponge.

They truly are both designed for the exact opposite use. I'm not trying to say ours is superior, but rather its actually designed for this purpose wile sponge filters are not.

[HowManyClowns]

Well you sold me Gresham :) I just placed an order for your CCS, some extra floss and a small bottle of RG Complete to try to see which I prefer (versus RG+)

I really appreciate all of the helpful info you have provided. I have experienced nothing but great customer service and support from Reed so far!

[GreshamH]

When it comes time to change that floss, contact me here or our tech support as we'll need to talk you through how to do it. I have yet to make the instructions for doing that.

SAVE THE BAG the is wrapped around the floss/stand pipe assembly as it will be useful in reflossing it.

[D-Nak]

When it comes time to change that floss, contact me here or our tech support as we'll need to talk you through how to do it. I have yet to make the instructions for doing that.

SAVE THE BAG the is wrapped around the floss/stand pipe assembly as it will be useful in reflossing it.

Speaking of which, how do we know when it should be changed? With daily use/rinsing and at the recommended dosage of RGComplete and harvesting, about how long before it needs to be changed, based on your testing?

[HowManyClowns]

Managed to save the bag this morning from going in the trash :). Good question, how do we know when it's time?

[GreshamH]

Its lasts a LONG time. It'll compress into nothing when its dead.

We've had them on the market for nearly 2 years in some form or another and we have yet needed to sell a replacement. The floss on the website is left over from when we did not have the CCS. We should add some text to let customers know they don't really need to buy the replacement at the time. We can always send those ground for fairly cheap

[GreshamH]

I'll talk to our scientist, he's had more contact with end users of the product then I have. He should have a better handle on length of time it lasts.

Our here for our commercial systems we wash with pressure washers so we put a lot of wear on them.

[D-Nak]

Sounds like when it's so old and tattered that we can see through it is when it's time to change it. Works for me! One less thing to worry about.

[GreshamH]

exactly :lol: