Couple of noob questions

[toddmau5]

I guess the best way to ask the two questions is to start with a little back story. Bought some live rock (tbsaltwater) and of course it came with hitch hikers. Tank ran on live rock and live sand alone for about a month, so we could keep an eye on it and get rid of all the hitch hikers that came out (did a visual inspection and pulled off what we could before the rock went in) Got what we could see out. nudibranches, bunch of stone and gorilla crabs, nothing really that exciting. We could hear the snapping and popping but could never ever see anything, no signs in the sand of anything coming out and marching around the rocks or foraging. assume its just small pistols, and wont cause too many problems (gf loves her pistol shrimp goby pair) Start getting the tank stock up. Later on, I discover a mantis. Quickly get it out of there. Few weeks go buy and 2 of the 3 peppermint shrimps we had completely vanish, I only found one body that had been mauled to shreds, still cant find anything, set numbers of traps, nothing. Then last week, I wake up to a completely dismembered porcelain crab body (crab was originally about an inch across, pretty big guy) I go on a rampage, pull the giant chunk of rock out and put it in an empty bucket and pour strait DI water on it (this worked extremely well to force the stubborn mantis shrimp out of his hold) only got out a very small pistol shrimp, a few tiny tiny stone crabs and some small worms. So the two questions I now have. What on earth could have taken down 2 peppermint shrimp, and a large porcelain crab, and not be noticed or found, and how on earth do I find it and get it out. Question 2. all the water levels were low, and happy. After my live rock soaking in DI water, next day my ammonia was up to .5ppm phosphates up to 1.0ppm but my nitrates were at 10ppm. Is it possible the ammonia and phosphate spike is from killing off whatever was on that rock? and is it possible that the DI killed the nitrifier bacteria living in the rock?

[Cdodge1]

Todd,

WHERE DID YOU BUY THIS LIVE ROCK?! I feel like it must've been a guy selling it out of the back of his beat up white van. Haha, just joking!

Okay. If you're a beginner, I suggest this for future reference: Don't buy live rock. It's basically a mystery purchase, too expensive, has to cure, etc... Buy dry base rock. It's cheap, lighter, doesn't need to cure, and most importantly...NO MURDEROUS HITCH-HIKERS! Just get some live sand, and you'll be a-okay.


"So the two questions I now have. What on earth could have taken down 2 peppermint shrimp, and a large porcelain crab, and not be noticed or found, and how on earth do I find it and get it out."

Mantis shrimp are the most vicious inverts I have ever seen. I have literally seen it break a clam in HALF. Mantis shrimp scare me more than sharks. Peppermint shrimp and porcelain crabs would be no match. See video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Uoc1RXuQ)



Question 2. all the water levels were low, and happy. After my live rock soaking in DI water, next day my ammonia was up to .5ppm phosphates up to 1.0ppm but my nitrates were at 10ppm. Is it possible the ammonia and phosphate spike is from killing off whatever was on that rock? and is it possible that the DI killed the nitrifier bacteria living in the rock?"

Okay at this point I would put those rocks in boiling DI water. Forget the bacteria. It's already colonized in the sand-bed. Let the tank cycle. But to answer your question, yes the dying organism remaining on the rock did spike your ammonia and nitrate levels.

[toddmau5]

Yeah I kinda wanted the mysterious purchase, the good and fun stuff we got makes it worth it. I instantly assumed mantis shrimp, when I saw the bodies, but the size match up just doesn't make sense. I would assume if it was big enough to get that crab, it would have to have made himself visible by now, and if he was that big, I can't fathom where could possible me hiding. Im half way to tearing the entire tank down to search for whatever is in there.

[Cdodge1]

Yeah I kinda wanted the mysterious purchase, the good and fun stuff we got makes it worth it. I instantly assumed mantis shrimp, when I saw the bodies, but the size match up just doesn't make sense. I would assume if it was big enough to get that crab, it would have to have made himself visible by now, and if he was that big, I can't fathom where could possible me hiding. Im half way to tearing the entire tank down to search for whatever is in there.

Hah, I feel your pain, man. I had a nasty crab that killed off my entire tank once. He came in on a piece of liverock. Never saw him until i pulled everything out of the tank. Good luck and I hope I could help!

[FTDelta]

How long are you leaving the lights on?

[wnppmy]

I've had good luck with live rock but after reading others misfortunes it's really not safe, like having luck of the draw.

So definitely as mentioned get the dry rock, less costly and will eventually fill with the required bacteria etc.

I would go easy on the water changes, let things cycle. Personally don't get excited on high readings at the start, is normal, usually eventually go down. Too much water change can slow things down, I didn't change water till end of first cycle, just my humble opinion.

Are pros and cons of lighting, tho did with mine. Currently have only 7 hours, after tank went thru cycles is doing well for mine. My occupants carefully selected for medium low light. Your choice when you slowly advance.

Take your time, things eventually will improve.

14GBio 1 1/2 years
Clown, Cherub Angel my tanks small for him
Long Hair Mushroom
Pipe Organ Soft Coral
Orange Flower Sponge, Aged Tank Only
8 Percent water change weekly

Years back dark ages
15G 2 clowns, small amount live rock
8 years still 2 clowns and sold
Zero water change
Not correct, my how things have changed!

[Hatonhed]

Todd,

WHERE DID YOU BUY THIS LIVE ROCK?! I feel like it must've been a guy selling it out of the back of his beat up white van. Haha, just joking!

Okay. If you're a beginner, I suggest this for future reference: Don't buy live rock. It's basically a mystery purchase, too expensive, has to cure, etc... Buy dry base rock. It's cheap, lighter, doesn't need to cure, and most importantly...NO MURDEROUS HITCH-HIKERS! Just get some live sand, and you'll be a-okay.


"So the two questions I now have. What on earth could have taken down 2 peppermint shrimp, and a large porcelain crab, and not be noticed or found, and how on earth do I find it and get it out."

Mantis shrimp are the most vicious inverts I have ever seen. I have literally seen it break a clam in HALF. Mantis shrimp scare me more than sharks. Peppermint shrimp and porcelain crabs would be no match. See video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Uoc1RXuQ)



Question 2. all the water levels were low, and happy. After my live rock soaking in DI water, next day my ammonia was up to .5ppm phosphates up to 1.0ppm but my nitrates were at 10ppm. Is it possible the ammonia and phosphate spike is from killing off whatever was on that rock? and is it possible that the DI killed the nitrifier bacteria living in the rock?"

Okay at this point I would put those rocks in boiling DI water. Forget the bacteria. It's already colonized in the sand-bed. Let the tank cycle. But to answer your question, yes the dying organism remaining on the rock did spike your ammonia and nitrate levels.

DO NOT BOIL ROCK!!! DANGEROUS PRACTICE. It can cause caustic gas to enter your house.

[toddmau5]

I have no intentions on boiling the rock, I actually love it, just trying to get out whatever monster is murdering things. The tank is already fully cycled, it's been running for a few months, I think I accidentally just triggered a mini cycle when I dunked a piece of the rock

[rlm2005]

I have no intentions on boiling the rock, I actually love it, just trying to get out whatever monster is murdering things. The tank is already fully cycled, it's been running for a few months, I think I accidentally just triggered a mini cycle when I dunked a piece of the rock

I think it is quite possible you killed something in that rock and that's what is going on. Boiling TBS rock. :lol: How big is your tank?

[joshua.jebe]

some pictures would be cool as well of what you have pulled out so far!

[3dees]

I'm waiting for my live rock to be delivered. some suggest dipping the rock in 10.35 salinity for 5 minutes and the bad guys will evacuate the rock. anyone know if this will work?

[Newms118]

Despite all these warnings I'm still goin to get some TB live rock, just a small amount to seed. This way I can reduce the chance of some of the bad hitchhikers (though a pet mantis shrimp in the dump sounds awesome). I want the good guys that come along.

[toddmau5]

I'll get some pics up hopefully later tonight. It's a 90gal. It's running about 2 months now. I read all the warnings on live rock, did my research, and I can say I'm still very happy with the rock. We got one that was completely covered in tiny yellow squirts it looked awesome, unfortunately the urchins took care of that pretty quick. My only concern is there is something big enough to take down that crab, yet I can't see or find anything

[toddmau5]

Ok here are the pictures, Sorry I was in the middle of trying to add some captions to them. The later pictures are about 2 months in, you can definitely notice some die off. I did have to remove a dozen or so stone and gorilla crabs. We have more porcelain crabs then I know what to do with. We also inherited more urchins then I can shake a stick at, and they are getting freaking huge. 2 mantis shrimp came in on the rocks and have been removed. So far I have found 1 pistol shrimp. AS of right now we have 2 zoa frags, and a good size zoa colony. A small frag of sunset monti, a small blue mushroom, 3 heads of frogspawn. A decent size frag of GSP, and a branching lobo. (I think i remembered everything) 3 Dispar anthias, 2 bengai cardinals. 1 skunk shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp (Lost 2, but they did great with the aptasia) http://www.flickr.com/photos/titanphotog/sets/72157636779922484/

[Calappidae]

Yeah I kinda wanted the mysterious purchase, the good and fun stuff we got makes it worth it. I instantly assumed mantis shrimp, when I saw the bodies, but the size match up just doesn't make sense. I would assume if it was big enough to get that crab, it would have to have made himself visible by now, and if he was that big, I can't fathom where could possible me hiding. Im half way to tearing the entire tank down to search for whatever is in there.

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Stomatopods (mantis shrimp) are very very tricky to deal with. I have two of them so just warning you to keep hands out of rocks if there is one.. gloves want make a difference..

[rlm2005]

I'll get some pics up hopefully later tonight. It's a 90gal. It's running about 2 months now. I read all the warnings on live rock, did my research, and I can say I'm still very happy with the rock. We got one that was completely covered in tiny yellow squirts it looked awesome, unfortunately the urchins took care of that pretty quick. My only concern is there is something big enough to take down that crab, yet I can't see or find anything

My next tank will be TBS rock. I'm happy to hear you haven't boiled or cooked the rock, what a waste that would be.

[toddmau5]

My next tank will be TBS rock. I'm happy to hear you haven't boiled or cooked the rock, what a waste that would be.

I did my research before hand I knew the downside to doing it. I'm very happy I choose this route. The owner even followed up with me a few days later. Yeah, we pulled out some bad stuff, but that's most of the fun.

[fifthtoe]

Yeah, for anyone reading. Boiling rock inside can be deadly. The rock or things on the rock can release toxins. The toxins will then vaporize and fill the house. I've read a lot of stories of this happening.

[dclownd]

Wow lucky 2 mantis shrimp? Did you keep them or give them away? Mantis shrimp are definitely cool. I decided awhile ago that if I do another tank it was gonna be tbs rock.

[Calappidae]

Wow lucky 2 mantis shrimp? Did you keep them or give them away? Mantis shrimp are definitely cool. I decided awhile ago that if I do another tank it was gonna be tbs rock.

1 peacock, 1 N. wrennerae. Both right here :)

In the past I also kept 2 G. ternatensis.. first one I got rid of (first saltwater specimen and I didn't expect it to be this crazy and found it scary at the time) and the other starved itself... it wouldn't eat anything I gave it so it died on me..:sad2:

None were hitchhikers, all store and online purchased.

[toddmau5]

The one we tried keeping in a separate tank, but the conditions it did well for about a month, then just stopped eating, and died. The other I just tossed in the sump until I can figure out what I would like to do with it. As far as boiling the rock goes, I had honestly never even considered it, my ultimate defense I a just holding the rock over a bucket and just dumping strait ro/di water over and through it, definitely ****es everything off enough that they jump out