...rtparty's 20 Long Build...

[rtparty]

This isn't too much of a build thread because there wasn't much to build. It was more of a transfer from JBJ 24g Nano Cube over to this tank. I did this for a few reasons:

1) I hated the curved glass on the NC. Cleaning it was always more of a pain than I wanted.

2) I actually didn't care for the cube shape overall. Not on that small of a tank at least. Finding lights was tough because I am a huge T5 fan and 18" T5s suck.

3) I wanted to add a sump at some point and the JBJ stand would never work.

So here we are. No sump though but I got my lights up off the tank and can run all 6 bulbs now.

Here are the details of all my equipment:

Tank and Stand
20 Long Aqueon (30x12x12)
Fluval Stand from Petco

Lights
6x24w ATI Sunpower (3 ATI Blue Plus, 1 KZ Superblue, 2 ATI Coral Plus)

Flow
1 x Tunze 6015...soon to be 6045
1 x Tunze 6045....soon to be Vortech MP10

Filtration
15-20 pounds of LR
AquaTech HOB filter

Controller
ReefKeeper Lite (This will be replaced later but I have no time table)

Maintenance
I dose Alk, Ca and Mg as needed. Usually 3x a week. I rarely test anything anymore. I know this tank so well that I can tell when something needs to be bumped a little.

I change my water once every 2 weeks or so but am going back to my weekly water changes. I change out 2 gallons each time and siphon garbage off the bottom.

Here are a couple pics from my cell phone that I just took. They are really washed out as my photography skills are terrible and my phone is quite limited.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131009_091200_zpsd7b6bd84.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131009_091200_zpsd7b6bd84.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134832-1_zps9ee7fe05.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134832-1_zps9ee7fe05.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134619-1_zps0f0e9b41.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134619-1_zps0f0e9b41.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134612-1_zps7b7255df.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134612-1_zps7b7255df.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134624-1_zps6d8f2389.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134624-1_zps6d8f2389.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134628-1_zpsf842bf44.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134628-1_zpsf842bf44.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134642-1_zps202db7b1.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134642-1_zps202db7b1.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134548-1_zps1d0c73b1.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134548-1_zps1d0c73b1.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131019_134536-1_zps747e01cc.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131019_134536-1_zps747e01cc.jpg.html)


Thanks all for looking!

[terrypercula]

Good looking! Is this tank going to be coral only or do you have plans for fish?

[rtparty]

Good looking! Is this tank going to be coral only or do you have plans for fish?

I've got a Helfrichi Firefish in there but it hid when I took the pictures.

I don't really have luck with fish so I limit my keeping of them.

[terrypercula]

That's a nice looking fish! Careful with the open top and a fire fish though.

[rtparty]

That's a nice looking fish! Careful with the open top and a fire fish though.

Yeah. It worries me all the time. I've had multiple fire fish though and never had one jump in 6 years. Of course I will jinx myself saying that.

I plan to build a screen top pretty soon but I'm highly considering buying a 29 and drilling it for a sump. My biggest issue is the stand has a divider right in the middle so it seriously restricts my room.

[rtparty]

A little update on the tank.

I will be putting a new light over the tank within the next week or so. Thanks to ATI I'm gonna be running the ATI LED powermodule over my tank! I'm really excited to give this light a try!

[rtparty]

The new light is scheduled to arrive today. I will get pictures and initial thoughts up sometime tonight.

[miniwhinny]

Very nice ! Love the BB...it's going to look even better as stuff spreads :)

[rtparty]

Very nice ! Love the BB...it's going to look even better as stuff spreads :)

Thank you for following along!

[sahin]

Hey Ryan. Subscribed your thread. Can't get away from T5's lol.

[rtparty]

Hey Ryan. Subscribed your thread. Can't get away from T5's lol.

Hey sahin! Glad to see you in here. How's the tank doing? Do you still have the sunpower you rigged LEDs into?

I'll never leave T5s. The new hybrid is unreal and I've only opened and demoed it.

[jdraider75]

What bulb combo you gonna run?

[rtparty]

What bulb combo you gonna run?

I'll mess around but I'm pretty sure it will end up 2 actinic, 1 blue and 1 coral plus. I have about a dozen bulbs to play with and am ordering more tomorrow.

[jdraider75]

Its gonna look awesome. I would like to get one too. Guess I better save up lol.

[Tron_954]

So your going from 6 bulb to a 4 bulb with led? Nasty...

[rtparty]

So your going from 6 bulb to a 4 bulb with led? Nasty...

It's gonna be awesome!

[sahin]

Hey sahin! Glad to see you in here. How's the tank doing? Do you still have the sunpower you rigged LEDs into?

I'll never leave T5s. The new hybrid is unreal and I've only opened and demoed it.

I still got the Sunpower with the LED's. I cant move away from T5's either.

I think only ATI is thinking correctly regarding lighting.

Think about most of the lighting companies when halides were around, they used to most usually build either T5, PC's, T8's etc into the units in addition to the main halide.

If Ecotech released a Radion with a couple of T5 slots either side, yeah that would be a light I'd go for.

I wish I could afford an ATI T5/LED unit. Maybe next year.

[terrypercula]

If Ecotech released a Radion with a couple of T5 slots either side, yeah that would be a light I'd go for.

I don't see that happening any time soon :lmao:

[TropTrea]

An interesting concept on a tank like this I must say. My wife is trying to conince me to down size my tanks so I will keep an eye on this.

But that ATI fixture first impression was serious over kill. But then thinking the 24" T-5's are only 24 Watts so that is 96 watts, plus the LED's are 75 Watts. Now you get at least 50% more light out of LED's per watt than T-5's so you realy can have have the equivelent of another 110 plus wats of T-5's from the LED's. Thinking in terms of Wattage of T-5 light you have the equivelent of over 200 Watts or 10 wats per gallon. On that 20 gallon tank even with just atinics on the T-5's par sould be way way up there.

All glass used to make a 37 gallon tank it was basicly 30" wide, 13" deep and 21" tall. I would think this light would work better on a tank like that? Just think after spending $1,000 on a light fixture fpr a 20 gallon tank, spending the extra $30.00 for the taller tank could be a good investment?

I personaly became a fan of combining LED's and T-5's a few years ago. It started when I put in a DIY strip of LED's for moonlight on my 120 gallon. The 8 Watt strip was way to bright for moon lighting but the florescense of the corals poped like nothing I ever saw other than cartoons. I started exerementing with my 3-40 breeder *** tanks. Originaly they all had 156 Watts of T-5 lighting. But I gradualy changed them frist to different LED combinations. To date the best combo I have now for both growth and color is a combination of 2 36" ATI Blue Plus T-5's, 12 Watts of Neutral White LED's, and 24 Watts of various Blue family LED's. Second best is an ALL LED tank with 72 Watts of LED's on it.

[rtparty]

I'm reviewing the light for ATI. I didn't spend anything on the light.

Like I said earlier, I'm planning a 29 upgrade but the 37 would be sweet as well if the stand can hold it.

[sahin]

Ryan, my LFS has a 1000L tank running a combo of AI Sol Blues with 2 x T5's on each side.

The tank is AMAZING. The SPS colours are brilliant.

I spent a few hours there today looking down into the tank using a ladder and MY OH MY! The colours are shockingly beautiful! He doesnt run the AI's too strong and I saw NO pale colours etc. I dont really like the pale Zeovit sort of colours, so I just love looking at this tank. The colours are easily as good as ANY Metal Halide combo - even Radium with Actinics. Nice deep/strong colours.

With the ATI you should be able to achieve just that. Cant wait to see this tank develope.

[Noamurmac]

following along those Ati fixtures are awesome you made a really nice bracket for it to! I cant wait to see it with the mp10 I have two and I absolutely love them.

[rtparty]

Ryan, my LFS has a 1000L tank running a combo of AI Sol Blues with 2 x T5's on each side.

The tank is AMAZING. The SPS colours are brilliant.

I spent a few hours there today looking down into the tank using a ladder and MY OH MY! The colours are shockingly beautiful! He doesnt run the AI's too strong and I saw NO pale colours etc. I dont really like the pale Zeovit sort of colours, so I just love looking at this tank. The colours are easily as good as ANY Metal Halide combo - even Radium with Actinics. Nice deep/strong colours.

With the ATI you should be able to achieve just that. Cant wait to see this tank develope.

Post some pictures next time you're there!

[rtparty]

following along those Ati fixtures are awesome you made a really nice bracket for it to! I cant wait to see it with the mp10 I have two and I absolutely love them.

Thank you for following! The bracket was quite easy to make. I just used conduit piping and elbows. I left it the standard color so it matches the ATI better.

[rtparty]

So I got the new light up last night and played around for a little bit. I didn't hook it up to the computer or anything so I had to program it from the controller. I just made sure the T5s turned on and off today and will program it tomorrow. The control is amazing and the shimmer from the LEDs is subdued which I highly enjoy. The one cluster of LEDs covers my tank quite nicely.

I will have an official write up in the next few days with pictures.

(If anyone has any tips for making my pictures better I am all for it. I only have my Galaxy S3 though for pics as the DSLR went with the ex in the divorce.)

Thanks all for reading along!

[sahin]

Well the galaxy S3 copes with LED's a bit better than the Iphone. So it wont be too bad.

[TropTrea]

(If anyone has any tips for making my pictures better I am all for it. I only have my Galaxy S3 though for pics as the DSLR went with the ex in the divorce.)

Thanks all for reading along!

I cave tried multiple cameras trying to get good pictures with LED lighting. I found the only thing that works deciently for great pictures is to photoshop the images to balance the neutral grey color on a rock. But thi gets the colors looking fantastic and removes any tints seen by the light which is not good for realistic comparison to realities. Between full lighting, Dawn to Dusk lighting, and my predawn lightin with the photoshop the tints all come out the same but theonly difference is the constrast levels.

The closest on a straight none photoshoped shot was on my Nikon when I set the color temperature correction up to its maximium. But when I got to full midday lighting this created a slight orange tint on everything that was not there with the naked eye. I would say it over corrected.

If you want a true remdition you need to include a colr strip that is outside the tank with a known light source on it. Then you color correct in photoshop for that color strip and the tank should appear exactly like the naked eye sees it in the picture. This takes considerable time and know how. I think I spent a whole afternoon trying this on just one picture about a year ago. It looked realistic but slightly bluer on the background than what the naked eye sees.

[martinphillip03]

Subscribed, as requested

Marty

[rtparty]

My initial thoughts and impressions of the ATI LED Powermodule fixture.

Light fixture - 4x24w with 1 LED cluster
Bulb Combo - 2 Blue Plus, 1 Actinic and 1 Coral Plus

Looks - 9/10

I think the fixture is very good looking. It is quite as thin as sleek as the new LED fixtures but it never can be. There has to be room for the T5 ballasts, LED heatsink, fans and a number of cables. I feel that ATI did a great design job.

Construction - 10/10

Wow! This thing is a tank. It is heavy and very, very solid. The fit and finish is top notch. What else would you expect from ATI though? They've always been built well.

Light Output - 10/10

I am not talking about PAR here as I haven't measured mine but hope to in the future. Just the look and quality of light is what I am looking at.

I was very reserved on how the LEDs and T5s would mix. I hate, HATE the disco ball effect that LEDs produce. However, the T5s and LEDs mix beautifully and the crazy LED shimmer is subdued and the one cluster covers my entire tank (30x12). (I have the fixture 12" off the water surface for reference.) There is very little, if any at all, of the disco ball effect with all lights on. The light looks great and the corals seem to appreciate it so far after just 2 days.

(I won't be claiming anything for at least 6 weeks though in regards to coloration of corals.)

Ease of use - 5/10 at first then 9/10

Alright, hear me out really quick on this one. I give it a 5 at first because this isn't the type of light where you just install everything and go. Well, you have that option if you really want. There is a default program already installed that is good enough to get you going for a day or two if needed/wanted. I wouldn't recommend that route but it is certainly there.

When you install the light for the first time you need to install the T5 tubes, plug the fixture into the controller and then power it up. You then run it through a demo mode to make sure that everything is working properly. Once that is done you are free to move about the cabin...I mean customize everything how you would like. With this light though, you aren't a passenger along for the ride. You are the pilot of this plane! The customization is endless and the LEDs are just awesome to fine tune everything to your liking. Is the light too white? Lower the whites or up the blues. Too blue? Lower the blues. Too much PAR? (assuming you have a meter) Dim everything down.

The software is good enough and doesn't have a bunch of glitches. It isn't super advanced by any means but I like that. I want my light to work and do what I say. I don't need it follow the sun over the Great Barrier Reef or anything like that.

At the beginning, I was totally lost on what to do. There is no instruction manual and unfortunately my laptop is down right now. So I had to haul my controller to my desktop and just mess around without the fixture. I had no idea what was doing what but figured it all out after a few minutes and setup a program. I saved the program and hooked the controller back up. Lights turned on just like I planned. The color was a little white but that is easily adjusted on the controller.


I will continue running everything and plan to change the bulb combo next week. I will update as I go and get some pictures when I get a chance.

Thanks for reading!

[TropTrea]

From the description it does sound like a lot of light power for its size. But if you have that much adjustability I can see you adjusting it to meet your needs. It does sound like a nice fixture but running on a larger tank would much more of a test.

As far as your disco effect goes this is something some people love and others hate. Many people do not like T-5's as opposed to MH's because they lack the shimmer. Others loved the lack of Shimmer and even light distribution of T-5's.

[rtparty]

From the description it does sound like a lot of light power for its size. But if you have that much adjustability I can see you adjusting it to meet your needs. It does sound like a nice fixture but running on a larger tank would much more of a test.

As far as your disco effect goes this is something some people love and others hate. Many people do not like T-5's as opposed to MH's because they lack the shimmer. Others loved the lack of Shimmer and even light distribution of T-5's.

These lights don't need "much more of a test" IMO. They are on one of the best tanks on all of RC....A Reef in the Sky.

In all reality, my tank is a great test because it shows how versatile this light really is.

[TropTrea]

A couple quick questions on these lights do they have a built in 24 hour timer where you set the on off times and possibly gradual fade in and out of the lights? Second question is what happens when you have a ower outage? Does any programing you did remain or does it fall back to the default proogram?

[rtparty]

A couple quick questions on these lights do they have a built in 24 hour timer where you set the on off times and possibly gradual fade in and out of the lights? Second question is what happens when you have a ower outage? Does any programing you did remain or does it fall back to the default proogram?

There is a software program and you set it all up how you like. Each channel has 10 set points that you can control what happens.

For example, you can have the LEDs come on at 6am and be really dim and then slowly up them to 65% for 6 hours and then slowly dim them down over the next couple hours before they shut off at 10pm or whatever times you want. You can also do this with the T5s (excluding the 60" fixture). It gives you total control over your lighting.

If power goes off it saves the programming from what I remember but the clock resets back to 8AM. Don't quote me on that one though. The program you create is also saved on your computer in the event that you need to re-install that on the controller.

[sahin]

Dude...you are killing me with this review!:uhoh2:

This fixture sounds like just what I need... :D

[rtparty]

Dude...you are killing me with this review!:uhoh2:

This fixture sounds like just what I need... :D

Best and coolest light fixture on the market! The software will only get better and better as well. The light it puts out is amazing.

ATI smacked it out the park with this one.

[TropTrea]

Well for me I would consider going with the 48" fixture that has 4 T-5 bulbs but the initial $1,782 sticker shock is something that would hold me back.

Comparing it though to what your getting in one package
a 4 Bulb ATI dimmable fixture is $554
add the 225 watts of LED's is roughly another $665 for a fatastic DIY build.
That come out to $1219 not counting the controler
Can you build a controler with as much flexability as they put in here for the added $563 I would say 99% of the people could not do it. And for the 1% that could the time they would spend doing the programing would offset any possible savings. So you would probably have more than moneys worth in value.

However it also a question of what bells and whistles you want and need. This sounds like it has them all? Do you realy need to ramp up ad ramp down your lighting? If not then then the added $665 in bells and whistles is not worth it. Perhaps in the future they will come up with a econo modlel that replaces the controler with two or three power cords and two or three pots to vary the intensity on just the LED's.

I realy think one of the things with a lot of the reef equipment is that they are adding more and more bells and whistles but pricing themselves out of the average home. Yes this could be today's Rolls Royce of Reef Lighting, but like cars how many people buy RollsRoyces compared to Fords or Chevys?

[moondoggy4]

Nice build, thread love the new ATI fixture, would that light be correct for a 30'' x 24'' x20''?

[rtparty]

Nice build, thread love the new ATI fixture, would that light be correct for a 30'' x 24'' x20''?

Thanks for the read and comment! I love the light.

24" front to back? Might be pushing it slightly with only 4 bulbs but the LEDs spread really well. You could go to the 8 bulb and run it front to back. It would look funny to begin with but would probably grow on you.

[TropTrea]

Nice build, thread love the new ATI fixture, would that light be correct for a 30'' x 24'' x20''?

Your looking at roughly a 60 gallon tank here. I have had great results with muc less total wattage on 75 and 90 gallon tanks. Remember if the LED's are quality they are putting out at least twice the light as the T-5's are per watt.

The only draw back is your tank is 30" long and the fixture RT is using is 36" long I believe. So you would have a 3" overhang on each side of the tank.

[rtparty]

Your looking at roughly a 60 gallon tank here. I have had great results with muc less total wattage on 75 and 90 gallon tanks. Remember if the LED's are quality they are putting out at least twice the light as the T-5's are per watt.

The only draw back is your tank is 30" long and the fixture RT is using is 36" long I believe. So you would have a 3" overhang on each side of the tank.

24" fixture

[TropTrea]

There is a software program and you set it all up how you like. Each channel has 10 set points that you can control what happens.

For example, you can have the LEDs come on at 6am and be really dim and then slowly up them to 65% for 6 hours and then slowly dim them down over the next couple hours before they shut off at 10pm or whatever times you want. You can also do this with the T5s (excluding the 60" fixture). It gives you total control over your lighting.

If power goes off it saves the programming from what I remember but the clock resets back to 8AM. Don't quote me on that one though. The program you create is also saved on your computer in the event that you need to re-install that on the controller.

Sorry but now we have more questions. Are there just two channels one for the LED's and one for the T-5's. or are the T-5's divided into seperate channels by there colors.

Sorry if Im getting picky but I did quality new product testing for roughly 25 years. Ususaly taking products from Betta testing through to final production and doing comparisons with the competition really picking the product apart. Some companies with invest budgets in the high 6 and even 7 digits to properly get there products evaluated before releasing them to the market.

[rtparty]

Sorry but now we have more questions. Are there just two channels one for the LED's and one for the T-5's. or are the T-5's divided into seperate channels by there colors.

Sorry if Im getting picky but I did quality new product testing for roughly 25 years. Ususaly taking products from Betta testing through to final production and doing comparisons with the competition really picking the product apart. Some companies with invest budgets in the high 6 and even 7 digits to properly get there products evaluated before releasing them to the market.

There are two channels the T5s. On the 4 bulb fixtures, the front 2 and back 2 bulbs are their own channels. Then there is a channel for the LEDs. Each LED cluster can also be on its own channel. So if your fixture has 2+ LED clusters, you can set each cluster to do something different if you really want.

[TropTrea]

So looking at the tech sheet you have roughly
6 Cool White and 2 Red LED's
as well as a cobination of 12 Blue LED's.

If the LED's look to blue for you you cannot turn the blues to say 60% of power while leacing the Whites at full power. Or if the fixture looks to white for you you cannot turn down the whites to 50% power and leave the whites at 100%.

The only way you can balance color is by changing which T-5 bulbs your using.

While color is very debatable with personal choice I think the LED combination sounds fairly white. Therefore I would probably run all Blue Plus bulbs in the T-5 slots. Considering the abundance of of LED power Atinics may be considered.

What is your opinion on the color RT?

[rtparty]

So looking at the tech sheet you have roughly
6 Cool White and 2 Red LED's
as well as a cobination of 12 Blue LED's.

If the LED's look to blue for you you cannot turn the blues to say 60% of power while leacing the Whites at full power. Or if the fixture looks to white for you you cannot turn down the whites to 50% power and leave the whites at 100%.

The only way you can balance color is by changing which T-5 bulbs your using.

While color is very debatable with personal choice I think the LED combination sounds fairly white. Therefore I would probably run all Blue Plus bulbs in the T-5 slots. Considering the abundance of of LED power Atinics may be considered.

What is your opinion on the color RT?

Every LED color is totally adjustable. So technically there are 4 sub-channels (if we want to call them that) for each LED cluster. There are 5 preset colors and 5 custom colors where you can create your own color mixing combo.

I'm running 2 blue and 2 actinic right now but will change one blue for a fuller spectrum bulb. Thinking of an aqua blue, coral plus or GE 6500k. If I could change one thing with the LEDs it would be to add in 2 Violet LEDs. I don't really love the reds or think they are needed because the T5s can fill in the entire spectrum just fine. The violet LEDs would be really cool to look at all by themselves.

[sahin]

I need to see some photos...I am close to putting an order for an 8x24 LED Powermodule... On one or two youtube videos I noticed the red LED's flicker when ramping up...is this a firmware fault or just someones programming fault (ie not an issue)?

I have lots of corals in my tank from front to back, I can notice the ones at the front growing towards the middle of tank where PAR is obviously stronger...with 8 tubes every inch front to back on my tank will have a T5 tube above it, so corals will grow more natural looking.

Also, how easy is it to simulate/programme lightning? Can the single 75w LED module do cloud cover or is this only possible with 2 or more 75w LED module?

Many thanks.

[rtparty]

I need to see some photos...I am close to putting an order for an 8x24 LED Powermodule... On one or two youtube videos I noticed the red LED's flicker when ramping up...is this a firmware fault or just someones programming fault (ie not an issue)?

I have lots of corals in my tank from front to back, I can notice the ones at the front growing towards the middle of tank where PAR is obviously stronger...with 8 tubes every inch front to back on my tank will have a T5 tube above it, so corals will grow more natural looking.

Also, how easy is it to simulate/programme lightning? Can the single 75w LED module do cloud cover or is this only possible with 2 or more 75w LED module?

Many thanks.

Do you have any links for those videos? If I video my LEDs directly they look like they are flickering but in reality it is just the camera and not the LEDs themselves.

I don't have any new photos but will grab some today hopefully. I am still playing around with my bulb combo and everything. My camera skills suck though so color won't truly show up. I will say this though, I can notice a definite increase in growth in my corals. My lobo is splitting on 3 different heads right now and my SPS are taking off. I don't test enough to know exact numbers but my alk consumption has increased over the last couple weeks. So that is promising.

I don't simulate lightning and don't think you can with the software. My fish usually just freaks out if the lights flash. Also, the sweep effect is not possible with just one LED cluster.

This is still the best light I have ever used. Not even a question.

[rtparty]

Well, as promised here are some pics from today. (Sorry about the cell phone quality and my lack of skill. For some reason the camera picks up a lot of purple that isn't there in real life.) :wildone:

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_161218_zps7e6464b6.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_161218_zps7e6464b6.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_161206_zpsb7bd9ec8.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_161206_zpsb7bd9ec8.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_161157_zpsd06f9f03.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_161157_zpsd06f9f03.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_161148_zpse5003225.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_161148_zpse5003225.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_161129_zps4f90a811.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_161129_zps4f90a811.jpg.html)

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/20131112_160820_zps61f9f7ab.jpg (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/rtparty/media/20131112_160820_zps61f9f7ab.jpg.html)

One day I will have someone come over who knows what they are doing with a camera! Thanks for looking everyone!

[TropTrea]

Well, as promised here are some pics from today. (Sorry about the cell phone quality and my lack of skill. For some reason the camera picks up a lot of purple that isn't there in real life.)

Yes I have run ito those problems myself. The big issue is that sensitivity of our eyes are completly different from that of photographic sensors. Photo sensors are very sensative to blue light while the human eye is very sensative to green light. Then we have the additional mechanism of a brain that works with our sight to make things look more pleasing to our eye.

The only way I found to take good pictures under lighting that is above 6,000K is to use phtoshop. With photoshop I will take a point in the picture that is appears to the eye as the closest to neutral grey and use that as point for adjusting the color balance. But the problem with this is that the colors will appear extremly simular regardless if your tank is under 14,000K lighting or 20,000K lighting. The only difference being some of the snap in some of the colors. If your tryng to show the spectrum pof lighting on the corals this is realy a means of faking it to make it look better than it looks to the naked eye.

Then you also have to keep in mind that different cameras are tuned differently for color. Some are tuned to take fantastic indoor pictures with a 3,000K light source. Some ore tuned to take the best pictures outdoors with a 6,500K light source. Some are tuned to give the best skin tones for portriats and others are tuned to give the most constrast between different green tones for landscapes. So comparing Johnnies brand A camera pictures with Jacks Brand B camera pictures is like comparing apples to oranges.

The only true comparisons that can be made is using the same camera with the exact same setting on different aquariums. None will look like they do in real life but when compared you can contice A looks greener , B looks whiter, and C looks bluer.

Over all I would say your pictures look very nice. Much better than 90% of the pictures I have of individuals tanks. And most of the other 10% were done by profesionals for advertising purposes.

[rtparty]

For anyone following along I have a question.

I really, really want to add a sump to this tank but that means I need to drill and all that as I am not comfortable running an overflow box over the back. I want to use the Herbie method and have it be completely silent. My biggest issue is that my stand has a divider right in the middle of the stand. I don't know how much it is truly doing and wonder if removing it might be okay.

The stand is a Fluval stand from Petco. http://www.petco.com/product/122339/Fluval-Accent-Aquarium-and-Cabinet-Combo.aspx

If I can remove the divider, I can easily get a sump in the stand and really set this tank up nice.

Any ideas or suggestions? I have thought about taking the whole tank down, removing the divider and somehow reinforcing the whole thing just to be safe.

Thanks all!

[akma]

How is the shimmer cmpared to halides? I am missing the shimmer from halides on my lights.

[rtparty]

How is the shimmer cmpared to halides? I am missing the shimmer from halides on my lights.

When I sent a video to my buddy his exact reply was:
"I thought you had T5s running? Why is there shimmer like a halide?"

The shimmer is gorgeous and there is no disco ball LED effect going on at all. The reflector that ATI designed is very well thought out and spreads the light out very nicely and very evenly.

[akma]

Ah man. I'm so tempted to get one. I was debating on getting a reebrite strip for my t5's but people told me it still lacks shimmer. Worth the upgrade from a 6bulb sunpower??

[rtparty]

Ah man. I'm so tempted to get one. I was debating on getting a reebrite strip for my t5's but people told me it still lacks shimmer. Worth the upgrade from a 6bulb sunpower??

Worth every penny. I came from a 6x24w ATI Sunpower. The 4 bulb is a perfect replacement for the 6 bulb setups.

[akma]

How do you like your bulb combo?

I see that you are running 2 blue plus, 1 coral plus, 1 actinic.
I'm debating on the same except for the actinic and switching that too a purple plus.

[E.Y.]

Beautiful tank. Learning a lot about lighting from following this thread!

[TropTrea]

For anyone following along I have a question.

I really, really want to add a sump to this tank but that means I need to drill and all that as I am not comfortable running an overflow box over the back. I want to use the Herbie method and have it be completely silent. My biggest issue is that my stand has a divider right in the middle of the stand. I don't know how much it is truly doing and wonder if removing it might be okay.

The stand is a Fluval stand from Petco. http://www.petco.com/product/122339/Fluval-Accent-Aquarium-and-Cabinet-Combo.aspx

If I can remove the divider, I can easily get a sump in the stand and really set this tank up nice.

Any ideas or suggestions? I have thought about taking the whole tank down, removing the divider and somehow reinforcing the whole thing just to be safe.

Thanks all!

Keep in mind that most tanks are yusing tempered glass on the bottom. So you have to drill the side of the tank. Onless you buy a pre drilled tank through your local supplier. Cost uis usualy about $20 to $30 more at your LFS. You were thinking of upgrading fto a taller tank 37 gallon I believe so it moght be a good move especialy with your lights.

[TropTrea]

Your up and running gfor a while now and my big concern was that it was a lot of light for your small tank. I think the 75 watts of T-5's alone should be enough for your tank or close to enough. So here is another question for you. At what precentage of power are you running your lights at peak midday?

[rtparty]

How do you like your bulb combo?

I see that you are running 2 blue plus, 1 coral plus, 1 actinic.
I'm debating on the same except for the actinic and switching that too a purple plus.

I'm currently running 2 Blue Plus, 1 Actinic and 1 Purple Plus. I will be switching the actinic for a Coral Plus this week just to try it out. I am currently losing some reflective color. My fluorescence is amazing but my SPS tend to reflect more and I am not seeing that right now. It will make the T5s slightly pink but the LEDs easily make up for it.

Beautiful tank. Learning a lot about lighting from following this thread!

Thanks for following! Feel free to ask any questions you may have.


Keep in mind that most tanks are yusing tempered glass on the bottom. So you have to drill the side of the tank. Onless you buy a pre drilled tank through your local supplier. Cost uis usualy about $20 to $30 more at your LFS. You were thinking of upgrading fto a taller tank 37 gallon I believe so it moght be a good move especialy with your lights.

A 29 is the largest I would go which is 30x12x18. I may or may not go that route and IIRC the 29 is not tempered but I don't know that for sure.

Your up and running gfor a while now and my big concern was that it was a lot of light for your small tank. I think the 75 watts of T-5's alone should be enough for your tank or close to enough. So here is another question for you. At what precentage of power are you running your lights at peak midday?

My T5s are at 100% with no dimming. The LEDs are now running at 50% for 5 hours a day. That is my max right now.

[ReeVo]

Great build rtparty!

I really liked your write up on the 24" 4 bulb ATI LED Powermodule. I was referred to your thread by another thread member because I'm in the middle of choosing a light fixture and the ATI LED is on the top of my list. It really has every feature I look for in a light fixture. It may lack wireless controllability but we can live without it.

What would you compare the light intensity of the LED cluster by its self? Would you compare it too 150w, 175w, or 250w metal halide?
Do you think the coverage and light intensity is sufficient enough for a SPS dominated 50 gallon cube ( 24 x 24 x 20 )?

[akma]

Well I placed an order for mine the other day. Should be getting it next wednesday. I can't wait. How did you setup the led lights?

[TropTrea]

I'm currently running 2 Blue Plus, 1 Actinic and 1 Purple Plus. I will be switching the actinic for a Coral Plus this week just to try it out. I am currently losing some reflective color. My fluorescence is amazing but my SPS tend to reflect more and I am not seeing that right now. It will make the T5s slightly pink but the LEDs easily make up for it.
.

That is very interesting considering your normal love for Atinic bulbs. Did you not start with two Atinics in this fixture? From my experience with LED's yes you should be able to dial in a good balance with the LED's but the weakest area with LED's is in the 410nm to 440 nm range. This is where I thought you liked the most of your light so I would have expected you to run with a combo of perhaps 2 Blue Plus and two Atinics with the LED's filling in the rest of your spectrum. I have found that neutral White LED's are fantastic for bringing out natural reflective colors better than any T-5 bulb I have seen. But keep in mind the more you bring up those reflective colors the less the florescent colors will pop out at you.

[rtparty]

That is very interesting considering your normal love for Atinic bulbs. Did you not start with two Atinics in this fixture? From my experience with LED's yes you should be able to dial in a good balance with the LED's but the weakest area with LED's is in the 410nm to 440 nm range. This is where I thought you liked the most of your light so I would have expected you to run with a combo of perhaps 2 Blue Plus and two Atinics with the LED's filling in the rest of your spectrum. I have found that neutral White LED's are fantastic for bringing out natural reflective colors better than any T-5 bulb I have seen. But keep in mind the more you bring up those reflective colors the less the florescent colors will pop out at you.

I started with 2 blue and 2 actinic but the tank was too cold for my liking. I have been running my current setup of 2 blue, 1 purple and 1 coral plus for over a week now. My SPS has been extending their polyps a lot more than normal but I attribute that to other things I am doing and not solely on my lights.

With only 4 bulbs, an actinic is tough to use though. If I had 8 bulbs, I would definitely keep a couple actinics running for dusk/dawn stuff. I really hope ATI makes a new LED cluster that replaces the reds with some Violet LEDs instead. The red LEDs are pointless for me.

[sahin]

...

[sahin]

Double post.

[sahin]

I started with 2 blue and 2 actinic but the tank was too cold for my liking. I have been running my current setup of 2 blue, 1 purple and 1 coral plus for over a week now. My SPS has been extending their polyps a lot more than normal but I attribute that to other things I am doing and not solely on my lights.

With only 4 bulbs, an actinic is tough to use though. If I had 8 bulbs, I would definitely keep a couple actinics running for dusk/dawn stuff. I really hope ATI makes a new LED cluster that replaces the reds with some Violet LEDs instead. The red LEDs are pointless for me.

Violet LED's have VERY little output compared to other LED's. I'm not simply talking about the perceived brightness by our eyes.

I actually fitted 6 x 420nm SemiLED LED's just a couple of weeks before putting the order for the ATI LED Powermodule. I ran them at 700mA. With 5xT5's you could barely tell they were on...

With all lights off, the pop from the 420nm LED's was obviously very different from say Royal Blues...BUT I actually didnt like them only after a couple of days...They popped the GREENS mostly...and that was it...Royal Blues dimmed slightly down are much better and pop a greater range of colours at various degrees.

I've tried various 420nm range LED's over the past 2 years and the 420nm SemiLED (I believe the peak is something like 417nm I think) have had the strongest output so far.

Whether or not you need the Actinic (420nm range) is another story...

I think the reason ATI put the 2 Reds is because most people tend to run a little on the BLUE side, having the reds allows you to warm up the appearance slightly. So, for example you can use 2xBlue+ and 2xCoral+ and utilise the 2 Red LED's to boost up the red end of the spectrum rather like what the Purple+ would do. Also, the RED LED's have a much greater output and so you can alter the appearance of your light..you cannot alter the appearance of the overall light with just a few violet/actinic LED's. And as I said above, the Royal Blues provide a better pop.

IMO, 2xBlue+, 2xCoral+, along with the Blue, Royal Blue, Red and 6.5K you should have a FULL spectrum. I've seen many nice tanks with beautiful SPS colours running on just ATI Blue+, ATI Coral+ and ATI Purple+.

Here is one beautiful example: Running ATI Sunpower with ATI Tubes. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2277871&page=2

Look at the top down shots...smashing colours! I know of a few other tanks that run have similar colours...but they are on forums not allowed to be linked by RC members.

Dont forget, the ATI Blue+ and Coral+ BOTH have a decent output in the 400-430nm. It even has a good spike at roughly 405-410nm.

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/bulbs_chart_coralplus_large.png

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/atiimages/products/bulbs_chart_blueplus_large.png

Now ask yourself if you have 2xBlue+ and 2xCoral+, will you have a decent portion of the actinic range?

I would have to answer yes. :)

[akma]

Just got the fixture today. This thing is a beast. Do you know any support sites on programming. Can't seem to find any instructions online.

[sahin]

Just got the fixture today. This thing is a beast. Do you know any support sites on programming. Can't seem to find any instructions online.

Have a look at this page: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2274338&page=17

I followed the instructions and it made complete sense in less than 5 mins.

You might want to go through the whole thread. Some good bits of info there.

[rtparty]

Violet LED's have VERY little output compared to other LED's. I'm not simply talking about the perceived brightness by our eyes.

I actually fitted 6 x 420nm SemiLED LED's just a couple of weeks before putting the order for the ATI LED Powermodule. I ran them at 700mA. With 5xT5's you could barely tell they were on...

With all lights off, the pop from the 420nm LED's was obviously very different from say Royal Blues...BUT I actually didnt like them only after a couple of days...They popped the GREENS mostly...and that was it...Royal Blues dimmed slightly down are much better and pop a greater range of colours at various degrees.

I've tried various 420nm range LED's over the past 2 years and the 420nm SemiLED (I believe the peak is something like 417nm I think) have had the strongest output so far.

Whether or not you need the Actinic (420nm range) is another story...

I think the reason ATI put the 2 Reds is because most people tend to run a little on the BLUE side, having the reds allows you to warm up the appearance slightly. So, for example you can use 2xBlue+ and 2xCoral+ and utilise the 2 Red LED's to boost up the red end of the spectrum rather like what the Purple+ would do. Also, the RED LED's have a much greater output and so you can alter the appearance of your light..you cannot alter the appearance of the overall light with just a few violet/actinic LED's. And as I said above, the Royal Blues provide a better pop.

IMO, 2xBlue+, 2xCoral+, along with the Blue, Royal Blue, Red and 6.5K you should have a FULL spectrum. I've seen many nice tanks with beautiful SPS colours running on just ATI Blue+, ATI Coral+ and ATI Purple+.

Here is one beautiful example: Running ATI Sunpower with ATI Tubes. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2277871&page=2

Look at the top down shots...smashing colours! I know of a few other tanks that run have similar colours...but they are on forums not allowed to be linked by RC members.

Dont forget, the ATI Blue+ and Coral+ BOTH have a decent output in the 400-430nm. It even has a good spike at roughly 405-410nm.

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/bulbs_chart_coralplus_large.png

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/atiimages/products/bulbs_chart_blueplus_large.png

Now ask yourself if you have 2xBlue+ and 2xCoral+, will you have a decent portion of the actinic range?

I would have to answer yes. :)


I ran Violet LEDs before they were the cool the thing to do. They really helped my tank out when I was full LED. I love the Super Actinic feel and look they give off. I can not say the same for red LEDs. They are of no use to me and I don't run them. I noticed some red slime when I used the Coral Plus mode for a few days on my tank and it has since disappeared since I made a custom color with very little red.

I would love to start my lighting schedule out with just some Violet LEDs and then bring in some blues. It adds a pop that blue LEDs can't do alone. The Violets would never be used to alter the appearance at midday. Heck, I may just shut them off during the day.

ATI could easily drop one blue and white for 2 Violets and leave the reds for those who like them.

[rtparty]

Just got the fixture today. This thing is a beast. Do you know any support sites on programming. Can't seem to find any instructions online.

Sahin linked my tutorial that I wrote for everybody a couple weeks ago. I haven't done a follow up with work being so busy but it seems to have helped a lot of people.

Good choice on the fixture! Your tank will love it.

[TropTrea]

I started with 2 blue and 2 actinic but the tank was too cold for my liking. I have been running my current setup of 2 blue, 1 purple and 1 coral plus for over a week now. My SPS has been extending their polyps a lot more than normal but I attribute that to other things I am doing and not solely on my lights.

With only 4 bulbs, an actinic is tough to use though. If I had 8 bulbs, I would definitely keep a couple actinics running for dusk/dawn stuff. I really hope ATI makes a new LED cluster that replaces the reds with some Violet LEDs instead. The red LEDs are pointless for me.

I will agree with your comment on the RED's. In my opinion the only use of red lightis for visualy balancing out some excess light in the shorter wave lenghts like when youing GE 6,500K or the Aqua Blue Specials. And even then you have to avoid getting to much red.

As far as more UV lighting this is something that is debatable and no one ever wins the arguement. If your using Coral plus, Blue Plus, purple Plus bulbs you should have enough UV to keep the corals happy. With the Atinics you love that is even more true. But if you want to bring out some colors and get a super predawn effect the UV's on alone can create an interesting appearance.

Since you can control the lighting I would suggest ramping up the UV's then once they are to full start the ramping of the Blues then finaly start ramong up your whites to midday. In a dark room it would give a dramatic changing effect.

[akma]

Thanks sahin and rtparty. That link and your writeup helped allot. Made it so mich easier. Love the lights so far.

Hey rt did you switch out the actinics or is it still in.
Right now I have
Blue plus
Coral plus
Purple pl I s
Blue plus.

Im curious how much of a difference an actinic will look if I replace the coral plus.

[sahin]

Thanks sahin and rtparty. That link and your writeup helped allot. Made it so mich easier. Love the lights so far.

Hey rt did you switch out the actinics or is it still in.
Right now I have
Blue plus
Coral plus
Purple pl I s
Blue plus.

Im curious how much of a difference an actinic will look if I replace the coral plus.

Akma,

A single Actinic wont make much of a difference in the appearance of the overall look when you consider it is against 3 other T5 tubes and 4 possible channels of LED.

Your current arrangement is perfect for SPS colour.

You can even use a combo of 2xBlue+ and 2xCoral+ along with the LED's and have very good colour still.

[TropTrea]

Thanks sahin and rtparty. That link and your writeup helped allot. Made it so mich easier. Love the lights so far.

Hey rt did you switch out the actinics or is it still in.
Right now I have
Blue plus
Coral plus
Purple pl I s
Blue plus.

Im curious how much of a difference an actinic will look if I replace the coral plus.

A big thing to consider here is that you can tune those LED's to balance out your color with almost any T-5 bulb creation that is not generating an excessive amount of White light. This is because a little white light goes a long way in brightening up a tank while it takes a lot of blue light to counter make a tank that is too white bluer.

Not knowing your combination and tank size but looking at RT tank we have roughly enough light to light up a 70 to 100 gallon tank. With it only being a 20 gallon tank if the light outup was perfectly lenear we could run everything in the 20% to 30% power range. Since T-5's are not linear you would not want to run them that low so instead you moght run them closer to the 60% power range which is almost enough light in itself for the 20 gallon tank. So the LED's would be running very marginaly.

If an atinic or two were in the T-5 fixture it would devrease the light from from the T-5's allowing more light to be comfortably used from the LED's. With the flexability and available white LED's in the mix he would still have the ability to tune in amost any balance he liked.

Most LED's fixtures have two week areas that is light from about 440 nm and shorter as well as around the 495nm to 510nm range. The T-5's can more than make up for this shortage with either Blue Plus bulbs, Atinic Bulbs, and even the Purple Plus bulbs.

Changes are being made with advances in the LED technology every day. It would not surprise me if new LED's will be on the market in weeks or months that will put out light in the 430 and 420 nm range which are high quality and effecient. But untill then the T-5's are the best solution even though they are not as effecient as modern LED's.

On the combinations I have built I recommend the Blue Plus as the back bone for the T-5's. For personal lighting preferences for the eye of the owner they can be combined with either Purple Plus for a deeper Purple color, or with the Atinics to decrease light output. With the LED's I do not recommend the Coral Plus bulbs because there is more than enough ability of the LED's to produce more than enough white light to make 99% of people happy.

[rtparty]

Just a quick update about the light and tank. Everything is doing better than I expected! I absolutely love the light and everything it offers. Software is easy and painless and the light is beautiful that it puts out.

Everything is coloring up nicely and showing great polyp extension. I will post a couple side by sides when I get a chance of my SPS. The one that was pale is now glowing a nice green with awesome polyp extension. Something I haven't seen in almost two years!

All my LPS are doing great and look magnificent under the LEDs. I can't capture true color with my phone or I would throw up some pics.

I am planning on adding a sump this winter but need to buy a new tank and drill it first.

I'm pretty set on the pipeless skimmers from cadlights as I don't need anything too crazy with only 20g of water. I'm hoping to fit a 10g sump under my stand and add some dosing pumps and an ATO as well.

Hope Santa is good to me lol!

[sahin]

Hey Ryan, good to hear the positive results from the LED PM. I pulled the trigger on the LED PM because of this thread. :D

I am getting good results too. I will post some new photos next month.

PS, its midnight here in the UK, and I am soooo tired, so can you let me know what is your latest T5 combo?

Thanks.

[rtparty]

Hey Ryan, good to hear the positive results from the LED PM. I pulled the trigger on the LED PM because of this thread. :D

I am getting good results too. I will post some new photos next month.

PS, its midnight here in the UK, and I am soooo tired, so can you let me know what is your latest T5 combo?

Thanks.

Front

Blue
Purple
LEDs
Coral
Blue

Back

I think the LEDs make for better reflective coloration in SPS so I'm gonna up my whites and drop either the purple or coral plus for another blue plus.

I know, I know....I tinker too much! Lol!

[TropTrea]

Front

Blue
Purple
LEDs
Coral
Blue

Back

I think the LEDs make for better reflective coloration in SPS so I'm gonna up my whites and drop either the purple or coral plus for another blue plus.

I know, I know....I tinker too much! Lol!

Not using the same LED's you are but I have found that a pair of Blue Plus Bulbs are a fantastic suplement to LED's. Considering you have T-5 bulbs your Atnics could easily be combined with them.

[rtparty]

Well, the tank is doing great and not much to report. I am just trying to get through the holidays and then I will have time to do some upgrades I have planned and get more fish in the tank.

The light is my absolute favorite and my corals are responding incredibly well. The blue LEDs can not be beat for dusk/dawn and then the shimmer is incredible during the day hours. I am still running 2 Blue Plus, 1 Purple Plus and 1 Coral Plus for my T5s. It is nice and I've just wanted to let things run for a month or so.

I will get some pictures up this week as I have three days off for Christmas.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

[kellerexpress]

Updates?

[rtparty]

Updates?

Nothing too crazy. Having some SPS problems that I can't figure out. My only guess is not enough flow and I've fixed that hopefully.

I've recently added ORA Red Planet, green birdsnest and Reef Insanity's Captain America SPS.

I really need to upgrade to a 24x24x18 cube with sump, skimmer and dosing pump setup but am out of money unfortunately. I started a new job back in November and this is our slow time so I'm not taking my full pay. Such is life though.

I'll try to grab some pictures this week. Tough to take pictures when things aren't thriving.

[sahin]

Nothing too crazy. Having some SPS problems that I can't figure out. My only guess is not enough flow and I've fixed that hopefully.

I've recently added ORA Red Planet, green birdsnest and Reef Insanity's Captain America SPS.

I really need to upgrade to a 24x24x18 cube with sump, skimmer and dosing pump setup but am out of money unfortunately. I started a new job back in November and this is our slow time so I'm not taking my full pay. Such is life though.

I'll try to grab some pictures this week. Tough to take pictures when things aren't thriving.

What SPS issues are you having mate?

Sorry about the job. Hopefully things pickup for you soon.

[rtparty]

What SPS issues are you having mate?

Sorry about the job. Hopefully things pickup for you soon.

My one piece is just losing tissue. It's a slow process but what gets me is the rest of the coral is pretty happy. There is still some PE and the color is really coming out finally. It's getting all the base green and showing some baby blue. I bought the coral months ago as a semi rescue so I don't know the true colors or what it even is.

I'm about to frag the healthiest piece off and chuck the rest to try and save what I can.

[sahin]

My one piece is just losing tissue. It's a slow process but what gets me is the rest of the coral is pretty happy. There is still some PE and the color is really coming out finally. It's getting all the base green and showing some baby blue. I bought the coral months ago as a semi rescue so I don't know the true colors or what it even is.

I'm about to frag the healthiest piece off and chuck the rest to try and save what I can.

Thats annoying you have to frag it, but maybe it will save it. :worried:

[TropTrea]

If that was a rescue coral there is a possibility that the issues began long before you got the corals. If you think it is a flow problem I'm finding that the old rule of thumb of 35 turns per hour is a minimum for healthy SPS corals. But if can fluctuate the direction of the flow it does wonder compared to just increasing the flow.

With your experience I will not even suggest checking rechecking your chemicals. But with the LED lighting it is easy to pump to much red light into a tank so you might want to check that. And be aware of possible chemical warfare between corals if they are placed to close together.

[rtparty]

If that was a rescue coral there is a possibility that the issues began long before you got the corals. If you think it is a flow problem I'm finding that the old rule of thumb of 35 turns per hour is a minimum for healthy SPS corals. But if can fluctuate the direction of the flow it does wonder compared to just increasing the flow.

With your experience I will not even suggest checking rechecking your chemicals. But with the LED lighting it is easy to pump to much red light into a tank so you might want to check that. And be aware of possible chemical warfare between corals if they are placed to close together.

I've had it for a while now. It took off with growth when I first got it but never had any colors come through. Then growth just stopped and the brown it had started to disappear rapidly. So I changed up my flow and moved it down in the tank. It has helped but tissue is still dying on the lower parts. There isn't any chemical warfare going on IMO. I've only got SPS and LPS so at least no softie chemicals fighting with it.

It hasn't been stung or anything and I don't use the red LEDs at all on my fixture.

I think I'll frag the healthy section and throw the rest out. Parameters are all in line as well.

[TropTrea]

So I changed up my flow and moved it down in the tank. It has helped but tissue is still dying on the lower parts.

Not knoiwing what type of coral it is is hard to judge. But you could have given us a clue in that statement. Could it be coral that demands considerably less light than it is getting?


There isn't any chemical warfare going on IMO. I've only got SPS and LPS so at least no softie chemicals fighting with it. .

Do not assume all LPS corals are safe that way. I have seen Frog Spawn and Hammer corals stinging Corals located 8" away from them. I lost a beautiful bright red Birds nest the size of a Softball because a hammer coral grew to the point it was to close and did not suspect what the problem was till it was too late.

Note I feel your money crunch. I'm either going to have to go with less tanks or downgrade my tanks as equipment breaks since I have retired.

[rtparty]

Well my one SPS seems to have stabilized but now another all of the sudden lost half its tissue overnight. I expect it to be dead when I get home today from work.

This piece never did anything though. It was semi happy to begin with but then just stagnated heavily. It's encrusted but has little PE and no color.

I can't seem to figure this one out. Parameters are in check but I'll double check again tonight. No temperature swings, no Alk swings, no pests from what I can see, lights are all worked out and flow has been upped. Maybe more flow is still the answer....I'm really debating on buying a Sea Sweep for my one Tunze pump.

[sahin]

Can you provide full details of your filtration system and everything that you are dosing?

[rtparty]

Can you provide full details of your filtration system and everything that you are dosing?

Super simple Nano. No skimmer or sump. I rely on water changes to manage nutrients. Plus, I have one fish and feed it daily so my nutrients never get out of control.

The hang on back filter is only there with some filter floss and carbon. Without a sump, I had to figure out a way to fight the larger particles. So the HOB takes care of that with the filter floss. I clean and change the floss regularly.

I have actually had to fight too low of nutrients in this tank so I dose Fuel. Every once in a while I add SpongePower to the tank but have been doing this for almost 2 years now. I have got a pretty cool yellow sponge under my one rock and have noticed the SpongePower really helps it out. I dose 1 drop when I do add it to the tank.

I dose Alk and Calcium regularly but both are getting low. There is some "dust" on the bottom of the Alk. Kind of like how Kalk leaves the residue at the bottom. Think that is the issue here? I don't why it would be but am open to anything right now.

I have employed this exact method for the majority of my 8 years and never run into these problems.

My two guesses and gut feelings are:

1) Too little flow. Tax return is fixing this. Maybe too little isn't the right term. Incorrect flow may be a better term to use.
2) Instability but like I said earlier, my parameters aren't fluctuating a ton.

Alk was ~8dkh, Ca was ~420ppm and Mag is around 1350. Temp is pretty much rock solid at 76F. Salinity was around 1.0264 last I checked a couple weeks ago. I have to add water daily to fight evaporation but stay on top at all times.

The last thing can't even be described. The tank just doesn't "look" healthy to me. For anyone that has been in this hobby long enough, you may get what I am saying. You know how you can look at a tank and say to yourself, "This tank is healthy and looks good." I am not talking about colors here. Just that overall "look". Hope that makes sense.

[sahin]

Super simple Nano. No skimmer or sump. I rely on water changes to manage nutrients. Plus, I have one fish and feed it daily so my nutrients never get out of control.

The hang on back filter is only there with some filter floss and carbon. Without a sump, I had to figure out a way to fight the larger particles. So the HOB takes care of that with the filter floss. I clean and change the floss regularly.

I have actually had to fight too low of nutrients in this tank so I dose Fuel. Every once in a while I add SpongePower to the tank but have been doing this for almost 2 years now. I have got a pretty cool yellow sponge under my one rock and have noticed the SpongePower really helps it out. I dose 1 drop when I do add it to the tank.

I dose Alk and Calcium regularly but both are getting low. There is some "dust" on the bottom of the Alk. Kind of like how Kalk leaves the residue at the bottom. Think that is the issue here? I don't why it would be but am open to anything right now.

I have employed this exact method for the majority of my 8 years and never run into these problems.

My two guesses and gut feelings are:

1) Too little flow. Tax return is fixing this. Maybe too little isn't the right term. Incorrect flow may be a better term to use.
2) Instability but like I said earlier, my parameters aren't fluctuating a ton.

Alk was ~8dkh, Ca was ~420ppm and Mag is around 1350. Temp is pretty much rock solid at 76F. Salinity was around 1.0264 last I checked a couple weeks ago. I have to add water daily to fight evaporation but stay on top at all times.

The last thing can't even be described. The tank just doesn't "look" healthy to me. For anyone that has been in this hobby long enough, you may get what I am saying. You know how you can look at a tank and say to yourself, "This tank is healthy and looks good." I am not talking about colors here. Just that overall "look". Hope that makes sense.

I know what "that look" you are talking about. I cant notice anything out of the ordinary here.

The only thing I would do is quit the GAC use for at least a month and see what happens. Seriously, I dont use GAC. I know it works for many, but myself running a BB tank, nutrients are already scarce and whenever I've used GAC, I've had corals "thin out", look unhealthy and pale. - How much GAC are you using and how often is it changed out? Also, what brand? BRS Rox?

[rtparty]

I know what "that look" you are talking about. I cant notice anything out of the ordinary here.

The only thing I would do is quit the GAC use for at least a month and see what happens. Seriously, I dont use GAC. I know it works for many, but myself running a BB tank, nutrients are already scarce and whenever I've used GAC, I've had corals "thin out", look unhealthy and pale. - How much GAC are you using and how often is it changed out? Also, what brand? BRS Rox?

The carbon is quite old right now. It's probably been 3 months since I changed it. I just pulled it out tonight.

I use a BRS brand carbon. It's their mid level stuff if I remember correctly. It's not the ROX, I know that.

I think I need to add a couple more fish to be honest. The water could just be too clean even though my LPS are doing great.

I'm gonna tweak the flow yet again in the next week or two and see what happens. The narrow and shalllow nature of my tank makes it hard. A 29 would give me another 6" of depth. Decisions, decisions....

[sahin]

The carbon is quite old right now. It's probably been 3 months since I changed it. I just pulled it out tonight.

I use a BRS brand carbon. It's their mid level stuff if I remember correctly. It's not the ROX, I know that.

I think I need to add a couple more fish to be honest. The water could just be too clean even though my LPS are doing great.

I'm gonna tweak the flow yet again in the next week or two and see what happens. The narrow and shalllow nature of my tank makes it hard. A 29 would give me another 6" of depth. Decisions, decisions....

Yeah...if the GAC has been in the tank for the past 3 months, then its not that. Keep up with the regular water changes and hopefully things will turn around soon.

[TropTrea]

I ran into something like this many years ago. First I lost one coral then another and slowly things started looking down hill. I started up a new tank not connected to the other tanks because I got a deal on some corals I could not pass up. I also did not want to put them in the tank that was questionable.

Eventually I started shutting down the problem tank even though every parameter I checked seemed good. I moved the corals one at a time and they all showed improvement. When I was down to just live rock and sand in the problem tank I moved some of the live rock to new tank. Wow that tank started to have issues. I pulled that live rock out as it was my last change and things started improving again.

The live rock I was using I got from a reefer that was giving up on the hobby. I had used it for 6 years without an issue. I simply cannot explain it but something must have gone wrong with that live rock.

On the carbon issue. Many years ago there was an interesting article in a trade magazine testing different carbons. They found little difference in the carbons between brands. Bu they did show that in most of there test the the carbon absorbed very efficiently till it reached its saturation. But in some cases it reached that saturation point extremely quickly like in hours rather the days or weeks most people change carbon.

I remember one specific test where they had two identical tanks and put a fresh carbon in the canister filter. Tank A was given drops of metheline blue that cleared up in less than 30 minutes. The other tank they put the same amount of metheline blue in it 24 hours later. The carbon took several hours before they started to see some clearing of the blue.

[rtparty]

Well, this day has been coming for quite some time now. I hate to say this but it must be done and sooner rather than later.

I have lost all interest in this tank and the hobby as a whole. There just isn't any drive anymore and the latest battle with my tank cemented it all for me. A little update and background as to what's been going on....

About 6 weeks ago I proposed to my GF and spent my money on her instead of upgrading tanks. An easy choice really but it set in motion everything else. Wedding planning soon took over all of my free time and work took over the rest. The tank got put on the back burner and I didn't maintain anything. Just making RO water almost every day has become an exhausting chore because of my limited pressure and time it takes to make the few gallons I need. I could buy a booster pump and all the things needed for an automated system but I have nowhere to set that up and no disposable income to do so.

About 2 weeks ago, my tank semi-crashed overnight. I still haven't figured out the exact cause but a couple SPS RTN'd and this brown, snot looking stuff started growing on my rocks. My urchin loves it but can't get in every crevice. It won't siphon off either. I have done a couple water changes and it seems to help but colors on most SPS are decreasing by the day. (I will admit that this tank isn't the "best" set up for delicate SPS but they've been doing alright for months now.) I always had the plan to upgrade to my larger cube but sold that off to help buy a ring instead.

I'm just burnt out with everything in this hobby and need a much needed break. The weather is turning nice here in Utah and my golf season has started back up. Since I have aspirations to take my game to the next level, most of my time is spent on the course and practicing. I just don't want to continue to let my tank "just get by" if you know what I mean.

Maybe one day I will start a bigger, better tank but for now it is time to step away.

Thanks RC!

[ChouDawg]

Aw, sorry to see you go! Been following your tank since the beginning...hope to see you back with salty hands after life has settled down :wave:

[sahin]

Hey Ryan, when you need to get out for a while...you need to get out. Hope you will be back to reefing once things are a little more relaxed.

Good luck with the wedding and everything. :wave:

[TropTrea]

Ryan I see exactly were your coming from.

That Snot issue you mentioned has hit me some last November on an on and off bases. I think I tried virtualy everything and the only thing that makes a difference is reducing my lights. When I run with simple Blue Plus bulbs and my LED's it will clean up and the tank will look fantastic within less than a week. But when I turn any of the guller spectrum bulbs on like the coral plus or especially my GR 6,500 K it returns in about three days with a vengence.

I have checked every water perimeter I possibly can and cannot find anything that is off. But the crazy other art is that I have 5 tanks on this water column and it is only hitting my 120 Gallon tanks is is on a combo of T-5's and LED's. The other tanks are 40 breeders 3 running just LED's and two running just T-5.s. This problem is not hitting the other tanks. I even moved some corals from the 120 that were looking sick to one of the other tanks and within two weeks they perked up fantastically.

If it was the lighting I have run the exact same lighting on this tank for 3 years now with fantastic success. The first corals to show distress were my Acans followed by my birdsnest and RTBA.and now some of chalice corals. The Monti's are doing just fine as well as my frog spawn Candy Cane and Mushrooms.

Right now I'm pulling down the 120 gallon. I think it really needs a 100% change in the Deep Sand Bed with has not been changed since 2005. The wife is trying to talk me to go back to all fresh water again (I used to have over 100 FW tanks in the basement) but we will find some compromise point.

Yes golf season is near for us. Usually I'm playing in my three leagues by the second week of March. But this year we still have snow on the north face of every hill and the ground is frozen solid. Add to that right now were are hitting the local bowling tournament season.

[d2mini]

Ryan, congrats on the upcoming wedding!!!! :)

Hobbies are hobbies. Come back to it when thing settle down and your heart is back in it.