Thinking about Fish

[mpcart]

Getting close to adding livestock to the new 240 and I need to start thinking about what fish to put in it. I'm a coral guy but the kids want fish.

The tank is 5' x 3' x 25"H.

Focusing on tangs to start -

If I want to be able to have a couple colorful tangs, what would be the targets and what order would I want to add them to the tank?

I've been trying to do some research and it seems that several are very aggressive and shouldn't be kept with any other tangs.

I have a 29G QT that I am going to set up and I'll add one fish at a time.

-Mike

[Mr D smack]

What tangs are you thinking about. I would say that's where to start.

[Blacksscamaro]

White cheek tang. Love the one I have

[twiggyb]

Clown tang and call it quits :D

[VSpeck]

My naso and my chocolate mimic were my favorites I had.

[t.priscu]

My Fav has been the powder blue, Mine seems to be the jerk of the tank though so if you go that route I'd make him one of the last ones. I think also a healthy Achillies tang says "My Reef Rocks".

[mpcart]

I don't have a particular favorite as they all look really nice. On the LA site almost all of them are listed as "aggressive towards other tangs" or they need a 250 or larger tank (I have a 240 - does that matter?)

I like the Orange Shoulder and Kole Yellow Eye and those seem to do okay with other tangs.

I really like the Clown and Naso and those are probably my favorites.

The PBT is great but can I have other tangs in the same tank?

I was at MS at lunch and they had a White Freckled tang that I really liked but I can't find any information on it.

Maybe I should ask this way - are there any tangs that you should absolutely avoid with a tank my size or if I want other tangs in the tank?

-Mike

[mpcart]

My Fav has been the powder blue, Mine seems to be the jerk of the tank though so if you go that route I'd make him one of the last ones. I think also a healthy Achillies tang says "My Reef Rocks".

That Achilles is a good looking fish - also expensive. Can you keep one with other tangs?

-Mike

[Nanook]

Naso, Clown, and Orange shoulder are too big for your tank in my opinion as they all grow to be 14-18" in the wild. They will look cramped in that 5 foot tank. Take this for what it's worth, but trying to match the fish to the appropriate tank size creates a much more peaceful, stable tank. I know tangs are popular, and I have several, but the Sailfin and Orange Shoulder look quite cramped in my 375 gallon and their behavior confirms this.

There is a lot to be said for stocking smaller, colorful fish that fit a niche. This takes some thinking, but can be a lot of fun. Plus, you can have more smaller fish or a few bigger fish. Just some food for thought. If you just want recommendations for tank size, then the purple, hippo, powder, yellow, gem, kole, tominii, etc are all good choices.

[t.priscu]

That Achilles is a good looking fish - also expensive. Can you keep one with other tangs?

-Mike

I have never owned an Achillies myself, but I want to but I'm kind of stocked up on tangs at the moment for my 225.
I do keep my powder blue with other tangs and he does get along with them even though he's the boss, but only to the ones who were there before him. Any fish i have tried to add since, he beats up on for a while. Some have stuck it out and managed to become part of the reef, others I have had to remove.

[ItzJustinN]

yellow tang is a beautiful fish

[VSpeck]

yellow tang is a beautiful fish

And homicidal ime

[Dsotto]

With is only being a 5ft tank you will want to keep your fish size on the smaller side. As stated above tomini, yellow eye, yellow, etc. I probably wouldn't even go with the PBT. I'd start with your small fish fist if you are planning any small fish (clowns, wrasses, cardinals, etc.) Make your tangs the last ones. Achillies needs strong current and plenty of room, so depending on your aquascaping and amount of open room it might not be a good option either. Trust me I had a few fish in my 90 that got aggressive as they got bigger. There is nothing relaxing about your fish chasing each other around, nipping at fins, keeping one in the corner not allowing it to eat, etc. Just my experience.

[mpcart]

Take this for what it's worth, but trying to match the fish to the appropriate tank size creates a much more peaceful, stable tank.

That's exactly why I was asking - because I want to be responsible and stock the right fish. I'd like to identify a couple larger fish but don't want anything that would be unhappy in my tank.

I'll add the smaller ones you mentioned to my wish list.

-Mike

[Koddie Doo]

then the purple, hippo, powder, yellow, gem, kole, tominii, etc are all good choices.

+1

Do not post this question in the main forum, the Tang Police will come head hunting. Just keep in mind they like to swim so the need a lot of open room

I have a yellow and I like it. I think the Naso is a cool fish

I have heard a lot of people having trouble keeping powders.

[hampmp]

That Achilles is a good looking fish - also expensive. Can you keep one with other tangs?

-Mike

Aren't Achilles notoriously hard to keep?

[t.priscu]

Aren't Achilles notoriously hard to keep?

Yeah thats my understanding is that you have to have a very stable system for this fish. However if I was working on a fish list from scratch it would be a
Fish id consider. PBT are a little bit harder to keep as well than dome of the more common tangs but still doable and no where near the price of an achillies.

[mpcart]

So the tank has cycled and it's time to make a fish purchase. Some questions:

I set up a 29G qt tonight with an HOB filter using a bio wheel that has been in my sump for 6 weeks and nothing else in the tank. Does a qt need to cycle?

Does the first fish need to go into the QT or can it go straight into the tank?

I'm going to wait until later to try any tangs but really like the foxface lo. Seems to be an easy to care for docile fish. Is this a good choice for a first fish in the tank?

I've been hitting a different LFS every few days at lunch to see what's around. Lots of good choices.

-Mike

[Schplitter]

I would QT every fish and coral you get before adding to the display.

[ItzJustinN]

+1 to above. Qt doesn't need a cycle. Just keep an eye on levels and do changes.

[u4ick]

FYI, if you like more than 1 type of foxface (or any other rabbit fish) then I would suggest adding them in o the display at the same time. Rabbits can behave similar to tangs in that they don't mind each other but do not take well to new additions of like species.

But yes, they would make a good 1st addition, just be careful of their dorsal...

[mpcart]

FYI, if you like more than 1 type of foxface (or any other rabbit fish) then I would suggest adding them in o the display at the same time. Rabbits can behave similar to tangs in that they don't mind each other but do not take well to new additions of like species.

But yes, they would make a good 1st addition, just be careful of their dorsal...

Probably going to stick to one, but if I did that could both be QT'd together in a 29?

I was at SS yesterday and they had a large (~5") Magnificent Foxface ($$) as well as a nice looking smaller (~3-4") Lo ($). I'm leaning towards the Lo because I've always liked them but that Magnificent was a really nice looking fish.

-Mike

[mpcart]

OT - anyone know why quotes and images I attach in tapatalk don't show in the regular site (see above). Am I not using it right?

-Mike

[Mascis]

I'm big on qting fish, but wouldn't do it with the first one, especially a foxface. I might be wrong, but the only downside is that if it comes down with ich you'd have to remove it to a qt maybe and let the tank go fallow awhile. The benefit is the poor guy gets to go right into the reef instead of a glass box of a hospital room. Sometimes bigger fish don't like the little glass box. I keep a second reef tank with just a couple clowns and corals to put new fish into. After a couple months there they go into the big display. And if it turns out they need meds, they go into the glass box. I know its a bit unorthodox, but try to avoid the desolate qt tank if i can.

[u4ick]

I'm big on qting fish, but wouldn't do it with the first one, especially a foxface. I might be wrong, but the only downside is that if it comes down with ich you'd have to remove it to a qt maybe and let the tank go fallow awhile. The benefit is the poor guy gets to go right into the reef instead of a glass box of a hospital room. Sometimes bigger fish don't like the little glass box. I keep a second reef tank with just a couple clowns and corals to put new fish into. After a couple months there they go into the big display. And if it turns out they need meds, they go into the glass box. I know its a bit unorthodox, but try to avoid the desolate qt tank if i can.

For those that do QT their fish. The best reason to do so even for the 1st one, is that the salinity can be raised very slowly from the hypo salinity that most of the stores do (like the mag foxface the OP mentioned). If he's already got corals or cleaner crew in the DT, then dropping salinity there is not an option.

But I do agree 100%, that getting a fish in his new home as soon as possible is best. It helps considerably with their stress levels, which is why I rarely choose to QT in the 1st place.

[Andystl]

I have a one spot foxface and Yellow eye Kole tang in my 120 and the are the best of friends. They follow eachother around and are rarely more than a couple inches from eachother. Great choice if you ask me.... but I am a little biased.

[mpcart]

For those that do QT their fish. The best reason to do so even for the 1st one, is that the salinity can be raised very slowly from the hypo salinity that most of the stores do (like the mag foxface the OP mentioned). If he's already got corals or cleaner crew in the DT, then dropping salinity there is not an option.

But I do agree 100%, that getting a fish in his new home as soon as possible is best. It helps considerably with their stress levels, which is why I rarely choose to QT in the 1st place.

Nothing at all in the QT so I can adjust salinity very easily. Is there a rule of thumb regarding the amount of time to match salinity when acclimating a fish? How much differential requires "very slowly"?

-Mike

[mpcart]

I have a one spot foxface and Yellow eye Kole tang in my 120 and the are the best of friends. They follow eachother around and are rarely more than a couple inches from eachother. Great choice if you ask me.... but I am a little biased.

Nice to hear. After all the tang discussion at the beginning of the thread, the Yellow Eye is on my hit list.

-Mike

[Mascis]

For those that do QT their fish. The best reason to do so even for the 1st one, is that the salinity can be raised very slowly from the hypo salinity that most of the stores do (like the mag foxface the OP mentioned). If he's already got corals or cleaner crew in the DT, then dropping salinity there is not an option.

But I do agree 100%, that getting a fish in his new home as soon as possible is best. It helps considerably with their stress levels, which is why I rarely choose to QT in the 1st place.

Yep. Damn hypo.

[Mascis]

+1

Do not post this question in the main forum, the Tang Police will come head hunting. Just keep in mind they like to swim so the need a lot of open room

I have a yellow and I like it. I think the Naso is a cool fish

I have heard a lot of people having trouble keeping powders.

Do they still have a warrant out for you?

[Mascis]

Nothing at all in the QT so I can adjust salinity very easily. Is there a rule of thumb regarding the amount of time to match salinity when acclimating a fish? How much differential requires "very slowly"?

-Mike

Increasing salinity I think 2-3 points/day. Decreasing I don't think matters as much.

[haynesw]

WetWebMedia says 0.001 SG increase per day from hypo. I shoot for that but end up raising it a little more quickly.

[u4ick]

WetWebMedia says 0.001 SG increase per day from hypo. I shoot for that but end up raising it a little more quickly.

Yes this is the "ideal method/rate".

Mostly the way I do so is (and this works well for adding to an established tank too) Is to over fill my sump, if you can, to drop the salinity, and then let evaporation slowly take it up to the tanks normal level. That way I'm not having to play test it every 12/24hrs

If I have an established tank @ 1.025, and a fish coming in @ 1.017 (which by the way does not kill marine Ich so why they bother with that level is beyond me) Then I will take the tank down to 1.022, or lower if the corals don't mind, but the inverts are not too pleased down there.
Then go ahead and put the fish in fairly quickly....salinity wise there is no real difference in a 30 min to a 4 hr acclimation.
The much larger thing to be concerned with is 1st ph, and 2nd temp. So if those things are at a substantial differential, then a slow acclimation is warranted/recommended.

My "Theory" ;) on this is, it's best to get the fish in his new natural like surroundings right away, yes it's a .005 jump....but it's not a .008 jump.

I have had much success with this method.....it works for ME, and so I stick with it. Others have their methods, this is mine, so take it as such.

[Mascis]

The much larger thing to be concerned with is 1st ph, and 2nd temp. So if those things are at a substantial differential, then a slow acclimation is warranted/recommended.

Have you ever had to worry about pH? I've never given it much thought but have always drip acclimated everything. Always thought that would equalize the pH.

[u4ick]

Have you ever had to worry about pH? I've never given it much thought but have always drip acclimated everything. Always thought that would equalize the pH.

Ph is generally not an issue when getting fish locally. But when ordering out of state when they have spent several hours to a day (or more) in a bag, then yes Ph can be quite different. Bad thing is Ph can change very rapidly just from opening the bag.
Sustainable Aquatics acclimation recommendation for their fish is to float them for 15min and then open bag and release them....no drip at all.

[mpcart]

So I ended up with a really nice Mag Foxface. I acclimated and put him directly in the DT as the first fish. He's doing great and eating really well although he seems to hide out a lot.

I'm been attaching nori to a rock and he's eating well. Should I limit the amount he eats or is it okay to just replace the nori as soon as he's done?

-Mike

[Koddie Doo]

Fat fish = happy fish

[mpcart]

So, here are the three buddies that have been hanging out in the tank the past two months. They stay together like this most of the time and all look full and healthy.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/mpcart/Tank%20Build/file-17.jpg

This week I received a male and two female Lyretail Anthias from Diver's Den and they are in the QT looking well and eating.

I read the DD quarantine process and they do so much with treatments and medications that I don't plan on doing any medicating. Since they are eating well and have already been treated/medicated, how long should I keep them in QT?

-Mike

[cobra9]

I drip for 6 hours for hypo to my tank levels and have never had a problem. Less then 3 hours I have tho.

[smoothdog]

So, here are the three buddies that have been hanging out in the tank the past two months. They stay together like this most of the time and all look full and healthy.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/mpcart/Tank%20Build/file-17.jpg

This week I received a male and two female Lyretail Anthias from Diver's Den and they are in the QT looking well and eating.

I read the DD quarantine process and they do so much with treatments and medications that I don't plan on doing any medicating. Since they are eating well and have already been treated/medicated, how long should I keep them in QT?

-Mike

If you want to follow strict QT procedures 4-6 weeks is considered the minimum to allow full parasite (ich) life cycle.

Nice fish btw!

[mpcart]

Since the Diver's Den fish are already treated for ich and other parasites do you need to go the full six weeks? I guess I'm trying to understand if I still need to QT for parasites or if I am okay moving them over once they are active and eating well?

-Mike

[mpcart]

I'm still going to QT 6 weeks. A quick search shows that's still recommended.

It's hard to be patient in this hobby.

-Mike

[smoothdog]

Yeah, if you going to do it, do it right and don't futz around with it. I've made that mistake thinking the fish was fine after a couple weeks with no signs of a problem and then the whole tank iched up.

[Reeferhead]

yeah, if you going to do it, do it right and don't futz around with it. I've made that mistake thinking the fish was fine after a couple weeks with no signs of a problem and then the whole tank iched up.

+1

[Reeferhead]

Another thing to watch out for is fish which carry ick but don't display it until they're stressed. I fully QT'd a klein's for the full 6 weeks, it looked great from day one and ate like a champ, never showed a spot. I added it to the display and it was instantly pestered by another my PBT. It seemed to be holding its own though so I left the new fish in there. Boom! 2 days later it was covered in ick. I pulled it right away back in to QT but it was too late. After 3 days almost every fish in my tank was covered in spots. I lost about half of them. :(

Its a bit of a PITA of if you're really serious about keeping an ick free display do a bit of searching on the "tank transfer method." There is a sticky about it in the disease forum. IME in order to adequately prepare the new fish you should do a few weeks of standard QT first to get it ready and eating good before attempting the TTM. Unfortunately the TTM and QT in general aren't necessarily the best option for all fish.

[mpcart]

Never heard of TTM but made it through the sticky all the way until the bickering starts.

TTM seems easy enough and, if I'm understanding it right, you use the process whether you see signs of ich or not. Go through the TTM method then quarantine for another 4-6 weeks and treat with Prazipro if desired - then into the QT

I DO NOT WANT ICH IN MY TANK! So, I think I'll try the TTM in a week or so. I think with my small fish, the 5 gallon bucket method should work fine.

-Mike