Corals not "thriving"... advice?

[RicGio]

I have a 90 Gal with 20 gal sump and 20 gal 'fuge. Lighting is (4) T5's and one 250w MH lighting period is 8hrs for t5, 4hrs for MH. Octopus skimmer, Kalk reactor along with two part drip and GFO reactor. My Calcium is always 500+ , Alk is 10 DKH and PH is 8.3 ish. I do (4) 5 gallon a month water changes with RO/DI, SG is rock solid 1.025. Tank is 7 years old and has about 80# of rock. Corals are mainly LPS, polyps and softies.

I've had a frogspawn in my tank(s) for 12 years. It was originally in a 40L with 4 T12's and kicked butt, but it has slowly withered away in this tank no matter where I put it. It seems every coral I buy lately slowly withers away. Opinions?

[shaginwagon13]

In my opinion 5 gallons a month for your 90 gallon tank is not enough.

You have to keep in mind that although your display tank may be 90 gallons, your total system has 130 gallons in it. A 5 gallon water change every month for a 130 gallon system is less than a 5% water change.

LPS, polyps and softies are very very easy to keep in a tank. Try increasing your water changes to 10 gallons every two weeks or 20 gallons a month. Your corals may be consuming all of your trace elements and by not replenishing them, they really have no way to grow.

[thegrun]

You might want look into the Red Sea colors and Energy supplements. The corals may just need food and trace elements.

[RicGio]

In my opinion 5 gallons a month for your 90 gallon tank is not enough.

You have to keep in mind that although your display tank may be 90 gallons, your total system has 130 gallons in it. A 5 gallon water change every month for a 130 gallon system is less than a 5% water change.

LPS, polyps and softies are very very easy to keep in a tank. Try increasing your water changes to 10 gallons every two weeks or 20 gallons a month. Your corals may be consuming all of your trace elements and by not replenishing them, they really have no way to grow.


Oops. That should be 5 gallons/WEEK! Do you think my lighting is too much? Not enough? I'm not a big fan of supplements and additives...

[Sugar Magnolia]

That's till a very small water change. Try bumping it up to at least a 10% water change weekly, maybe 10 gallons a week. It's likely, with such small water changes, that the corals aren't getting the trace elements they need to thrive.

[121]

Your corals may be consuming all of your trace elements and by not replenishing them, they really have no way to grow.

What specific trace elements are you referring to that corals take up?

[Sugar Magnolia]

What specific trace elements are you referring to that corals take up?

Here you go - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/9/aafeature

[121]

Most of these elements can be tested for and the trace ones are poisonous if elevated. Artificial sea salt already has elevated levels, so a water change is actually removing excess as apposed to replenishing them.

[scubakid3]

You should find out how much over 500 your calcium really is. If you really overdose it your corals might not like that. It happened to me once and my calcium was around 650-700 and all of my corals were closed up.

[RicGio]

I didn't think it was possible for calcium to BE too high. I may send a sample out for professional testing.

[shaginwagon13]

That's till a very small water change. Try bumping it up to at least a 10% water change weekly, maybe 10 gallons a week. It's likely, with such small water changes, that the corals aren't getting the trace elements they need to thrive.

I concur.

[MrIcky]

You might try simple test with a poly-filter too. I think there is some marketing hype with these so I'm not sure it will cure the issue, however they change color with some of the more common metal contaminants which may give you an indicator of what needs to happen. Water changes may or may not help depending on your source water so I'd start by testing/switching sources.

The professional testing is a good idea. I personally wouldn't do any supplements until you've done some testing.

[RicGio]

My source water is near lab grade at 4 micro MOHs RO then 2 staged of DI.

[RicGio]

I'll try larger water changes.

[ajcanale]

Most of these elements can be tested for and the trace ones are poisonous if elevated. Artificial sea salt already has elevated levels, so a water change is actually removing excess as apposed to replenishing them.

First off, hobby grade tests are not readily available for most trace minerals. Even if they were, there are too many for the average hobbyist to have time to test for anyways.

Secondly, your statement is illogical as trace element levels are completely based on demand. A full blown reef tank filled with grown out corals will have a much higher demand for trace elements, possibly (likely) surpassing that in which a 5% weekly water change could provide, regardless of the type of salt. Whereas if there is little to no demand in a tank with minimal livestock then your theory might hold true.

Regardless, I doubt trace elements are the sole variable of why a reef is or isn't thriving.

[121]

All the main elements are measurable with kits. What specific trace elements are you referring to that corals take up?

Natural sea water is nothing like artificial sea water. For instance, there's the same amount of uranium as there is iron in natural sea water.

[shaginwagon13]

Regardless, I doubt trace elements are the sole variable of why a reef is or isn't thriving.

I tend to agree with this.

[RicGio]

Ok. So if it's not trace elements...what is it? Flow? Lighting?

[shaginwagon13]

Ok. So if it's not trace elements...what is it? Flow? Lighting?

I mean there is no scientific formula for how to fix this. It would could be all of those things, or it may be none of those things. I know that might not be the answer your looking for, but your not going to find anyone that can, with accuracy, find the absolute remedy to your issues.

This is what I would suggest:

1) Increase water changes. Since there is an issue with your tank, I would do a 35% water change this week and then another 35% water change next week. Follow this by 15% water changes for the next two weeks.

If your problem is essential elements, these water change schedule will most certainly take care of this and you will know in a month. If the problems persist, I would look to the lighting next.

The tricky part of diagnosing your tank issues, are that your tank has been up and running for 10 years. usually if a new guy posts something like this, you think immediately lighting-water changes-flow. Your tank is a little more tricky because you clearly have had success for many years with the system you have running.

I would start with water changes and then go from there. Take pictures every week and post them here and keep a log of the maintenance you are performing to your tank and when. I am sure in a month or two we can figure out what the issues are and solve them.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I don't think anyone has asked this, but when was the last time you tested for nitrates? Please post up the nitrate test results. Also, do you have a sand bed? If so, how old is it, how deep is it?

[ajcanale]

All the main elements are measurable with kits. What specific trace elements are you referring to that corals take up.

I must have been misunderstood your prior post, I thought you were saying there were available test kits for all trace elements.

What specific trace elements are you referring to that corals take up?
Depending on what is officially regarded as trace elements: Potassium, Iodine/Iodide, Manganese, Strontium, Molybdenum, Iron.... There are a multitude of others, but I know these are some of those that are consumed. There's a hoard of information regarding specific/groups of elements available. Much of it provided by Randy Holmes-Farley

Natural sea water is nothing like artificial sea water. For instance, there's the same amount of uranium as there is iron in natural sea water.

Again this is Illogical. ASW would not contain contaminants. Many manufactures of artificial salts strive to produce exact reef level NSW properties. At least in regards to those non-toxic.

[shaginwagon13]

again this is illogical. Asw would not contain contaminants. Many manufactures of artificial salts strive to produce exact reef level nsw properties. At least in regards to those non-toxic.

+1

[RicGio]

I don't think anyone has asked this, but when was the last time you tested for nitrates? Please post up the nitrate test results. Also, do you have a sand bed? If so, how old is it, how deep is it?

I haven't tested for Nitrates in a LONG time. I'll have to hit LFS and buy a test kit. The one I have is 2 years expired! :eek1: I have a 1" sand bed that is 7 years old. Wouldn't I see other symptoms , IE algae, if Nitrates were high?

[RicGio]

Just tested with a new API nitrate kit. Read between 5 and 10 ppm! Just did a 15 gal WC. I'll make up some more and do another 15 mid week. I also siphoned half of my sand bed.

[lionfish300]

I would do water change like above suggested for a start. Hope that you will see different in your corals

[Chevrefils]

Doubt nitrates of 5-10 ppm would effect softies..