My new Chaetodon Rainfordi and Chaetodon Flavirostris

[caribfan]

So Live aquaria has had the Rainfordi Butterflies in stock for a couple of weeks now. I wanted to take advantage of the free shipping threshold, so when the Dusky Butterfly showed up on DD this past Wednesday, I jumped at the oportunity.

This was my first order from LA/DD and the packaging and livestock was heads and tails above my other online ordering experience.

Both fish acclimated for just over 1.5 hours and the dusky was eating PE Mysis within 30 minutes, as was advertised. The Rainford has taken some more work, but has taken a liking to Blue point oysters. I also tried little neck clams, PE mysis, Hikari Brine, and a combination of the LRS Fish Frenzy and Reef Frenzy. At the moment, he seems to only like the oysters, but the feeding response is improving every day.

Here is a quick video and picture. The Dusky is pacing more than I like to see today, I saw a slight amount of flashing last night, so I may dip it later this week to see if there are any flukes.

I can't say how impressed I am with the livestock from LA and DD. To have these two difficult butterflies come in and both be eating in less than a couple days speaks volumes.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6888d4f8.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/caribfan/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6888d4f8.jpg.html)

[caribfan]

Here is the video...

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/th_trim2B705766-A639-43EE-8021-8B6C653C68B7_zps3f7d2e17.jpg (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/trim2B705766-A639-43EE-8021-8B6C653C68B7_zps3f7d2e17.mp4)

[las]

beautiful BF

[ingtar_shinowa]

great looking fish

[reeferstace]

DD is the best! Nice looking fish you have there. Good luck with them!

[caribfan]

Thanks for the kind words everybody, I'm a little enamored with these guys, especially the Rainfordi. I have a guy locally that I usually source my fish through, but when I saw both of these pop up, I had to get them.

The dusky seems to have settled down this morning, I'm not sure what the laps were all about yesterday. I did a WC and i'm wondering if that helped as I had been feeding the tank pretty heavily this past weekend.

I'll try to post another video with better quality of them eating mysis tonight, fingers crossed that the Rainfordi will start taking to that.

I spent most of yesterday working on my sump for my 240 build, I can't wait to see these guys in there amongst the rocks, still have the full quarantine regimen to go though.

[ca1ore]

This was my first order from LA/DD and the packaging and livestock was heads and tails above my other online ordering experience.

Recently made my first order (and then a second quickly thereafter) and would echo the terrific packing and shipping. I think they will become my defacto go to for sensitive fish

[caribfan]

Rainfordi eating little neck clam this morning, this is nice as the oysters would have been pricey long term. The little necks are part of the standard fare I normally offer, but I'd still like to get him eating mysis of the LRS food too.

[SDguy]

Nice fish! My rainfordi doesn't care for Mysis, but will eat all sorts of minced seafood meats. Pellets too. I don't think he likes the shell/legs/heads of mysis.

[caribfan]

I was hoping to hear from you on the rainfordi Peter. I was going to try shaving some frozen Florida hoppers this afternoon. He seems like he enjoys picking more than taking food from the water column, we'll see.

The dusky eats everything...

[caribfan]

Here is another quick video of the quarantine tank during feeding time. I need to get a HOB skimmer as my water has clouded a bit with the increase in feeding clams. The ammonia is always a 0, but it's still a bit cloudier than I like. Until then, I will be doing small water changes on a daily basis when I suction out any leftover food.

For those who say quarantine is too difficult, that little Regal has been in this tank, devoid of LR for more than three months. Don't get me wrong, i'm itching to put in my display tank, but long term quarantine is definitely possible.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/th_trim03EDA7B7-68C2-401B-8BA1-07EE1A192A90_zpsb272d9ed.jpg (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/trim03EDA7B7-68C2-401B-8BA1-07EE1A192A90_zpsb272d9ed.mp4)

[caribfan]

Both fish are eating PE mysis. I think i'm going to wait a week and start the standard quarantine regimen beginning with Prazi, though i'm becoming pretty skeptical of it's effectiveness.

I might try to take an actual decent video and some decent photos later tonight or tomorrow.

LA and DD rock!

[Holyhands22]

that is awesome when i got the email from divers den i wanted the dusky. By time i got on the website it was already sold. Nice catch. Im in the middle of getting a declivis. My dream tank would be angels tangs and butterflies.

[caribfan]

Sorry, I got the sneak peek and was ready at 6 exactly. I was freaking out because it was my first purchase from LA and it was having me register and do all this other crap and I was worried I was going to have somebody else swoop in and steal it.

If another one comes up, I would say you can buy with confidence as mine seems to be getting along just fine.

Good luck with the Declivis, it's definitely on my list in the future.

[Holyhands22]

I really enjoy the butterfly fish and that picture was the first time I had seen the dusky butterfly.

There are a lot more of the chaetodon species than I thought. Pretty much everyday they have a different chaetodon up. They are all pretty awesome

[caribfan]

Well I may have done something bad. I've been feeding a lot of clams/oysters lately to these two fish which they accept readily.

Unfortunately, that's about all they accept now, which is kind of disheartening since the Flavirostris came in eating mysis and also had taken to the LRS food. I'm debating holding off on any more clams to see if I can get them back eating the other prepared foods.

Anyone have experience sustaining butterflies on clams alone?

[Ninchen]

Looks good :-)

[jjk_reef00]

Get them really fat and then try to get them to eat the other foods.
I've also spoiled fish in QT and that is the primary reason I don't feed clam in QT unless it is absolutely necessary. I try to get my fish eating chopped raw shrimp first because it fattens fish up and most butterfly fish take to it fairly easily.

If you plan on medicating them you may just want to continue with the clams. IME once they hit the display they will adjust back to other frozen foods.

[caribfan]

I've had the rainfordi and flavor patria for just over a week now. They will both get between 8-10 weeks in quarantine.

I have plans to treat both with cupramine and Prazi, but that won't start for another week or two.

I'll try the shrimp later tonight and see how they feel about it.

[caribfan]

So here's a quick update. The chopped shrimp seems to have done the trick on the Dusky, which is good news.

Some bad news though, or at least concerning news. I noticed this afternoon that the Rainfordi is appears to only be using one of his gills? The other side is moving really fast, but one side appears to not be in use at all. Anyone seen this?

I dipped both the Dusky and the Rainfordi for 6 - 7 minutes and didn't really see much come off. I'm considering dosing NFG powder since I don't have just methylene blue and that contains the methylene blue. I know that seems to be a product that can help with gill discomfort / burning.

Any thoughts on this? Ever seen a fish use only one side of its gills? The rainfordi is still eating when I offer clams, FWIW.

[tylersarah]

Now this is my kinda thread, great fish!

What do you mean by, "Both fish acclimated for just over 1.5 hours"?
I would suspect gill burn and NFG is good like you said. I see the agitation in the Dusky's swimming behavior, glad it wasn't flukes.

There's a chelmon muelleri on DD tonight, just throwing that out there...

[tylersarah]

As for foods, I've found I can sneak nearly anything into a frozen homemade concoction. So, if the fish prefers clam, mix clam, shrimp, pellets, cyclopeeze etc. and voila. At least that's what I do, with live blackworms in the AM.
An added bonus of freezing is killing vibrio sometimes found in raw clam.

[caribfan]

Now this is my kinda thread, great fish!

What do you mean by, "Both fish acclimated for just over 1.5 hours"?
I would suspect gill burn and NFG is good like you said. I see the agitation in the Dusky's swimming behavior, glad it wasn't flukes.

There's a chelmon muelleri on DD tonight, just throwing that out there...

I drip acclimated them for 1.5 hours. Each in it's own bucket and dosed some prime initially to make sure there was no ammonia.

I'm not sure what the deal is with that Dusky, it just doesn't seem happy in the 50 breeder. I'm hoping to get this quarantine period over quickly so he can move into the new 240.

I will have a muelleri, but now is not the time. My fish funds are tapped at the moment and I have no real estate for another fish anyway at the moment.

[caribfan]

As for foods, I've found I can sneak nearly anything into a frozen homemade concoction. So, if the fish prefers clam, mix clam, shrimp, pellets, cyclopeeze etc. and voila. At least that's what I do, with live blackworms in the AM.
An added bonus of freezing is killing vibrio sometimes found in raw clam.

I pretty much freeze all my clams. The only time I did not was when I was trying to get the Rainfordi to eat initially. He got fresh blue point oysters.

[tylersarah]

And FWIW, solid Methylene blue can be purchased from chemical supply outlets and dissolved into RO.

[tylersarah]

How are things going over there?

[caribfan]

Hey, sorry for the drop in communication with the Christmas and New Years.

The fish are all doing well. I uploaded a video from a week or two ago, at the time they still preffered clams.

I'm happy to report that all the fish are currently eating the LRS Fish Frenzy very well. I dropped the mysis for a while as it seems none of them were interested in it if clams were on the menu.

Today marks the fourth week they have been in my care and I have yet to start any preventative treatments. All the fish have been FW dipped and no occurences of flukes were present.

I plan to start cupramine today and ramp up slowly as everyone recommends and as I have done in the past. Treatment will last a minimum of 2 weeks and no more than 4, dependent upon how they take it.

Once the cupramine treatment is complete, they will both get 2 - 3 rounds of prazi. I'm also going to start adding Metro to their food as I lost a Mitratus butterfly last year to what I am almost certain was an internal parasite. The fish ate like a horse, but just kept losing weight over a period of all most 8 months. By the time I realized it, it was too far gone. I'm a bit nervous to use the metro however as I don't really know how much to add to the food.

I finally got my nicer camera to work again, so I'll try to take some Non-iPhone pictures later this weekend.

Here's the video, I added a nice little Deltec APF 600, it became necessary with all the clam and oyster feedings.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/th_trim7ABBF170-27CF-4F53-AC51-AC16840FD31B_zpsc027fbf0.jpg (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag26/caribfan/Mobile%20Uploads/trim7ABBF170-27CF-4F53-AC51-AC16840FD31B_zpsc027fbf0.mp4)

[pktech]

Didn't see the last post - sorreeeee

[caribfan]

Huh?

[SDguy]

Glad they are doing so well. Heads up, that flavi gets BIG! I'm amazed that mine continues to grow.

[tylersarah]

Good to see the fish! I was starting to think something happened and was reluctant to check back.

A couple thoughts, I've been told and have read that copper sulfate is effective at .14-.18ppm and for the fish's sake, no need to dose higher. I followed this procedure and cured two clowns with advanced stages of marine velvet with Cupramine at .18ppm for 4.5 wks (also used fw dips as an aid) and at this point I see no reason to change the Cupramine procedure.

The internal worms, I've used Seachem's Metro in frozen food along with Focus to help bind and the instructions state how much to add. Have you ever tried Levamisole? I've used that as well and found it to be a superior internal dewormer and seemingly easier on the fish.

[caribfan]

Glad they are doing so well. Heads up, that flavi gets BIG! I'm amazed that mine continues to grow.

I am too, I was starting to get worried that the Rainfordi was only going to eat clams. Out of the blue, it just started going after the LRS food in the water column. He still gets and prefers the clams though.

The Flavi is headed to my 240 as soon as the quarantine treatments are done. I plan to start another thread for that build once it's got some steam behind it. The stand is built and the wall behind it is framed and electric is run. I just need to finish up the dry wall and my sump. Should be able to do that in the next 6 to 8 weeks. It's been a long quarantine for that little regal from several months ago.

How big is the flavi supposed to get?

[caribfan]

Good to see the fish! I was starting to think something happened and was reluctant to check back.

A couple thoughts, I've been told and have read that copper sulfate is effective at .14-.18ppm and for the fish's sake, no need to dose higher. I followed this procedure and cured two clowns with advanced stages of marine velvet with Cupramine at .18ppm for 4.5 wks (also used fw dips as an aid) and at this point I see no reason to change the Cupramine procedure.

The internal worms, I've used Seachem's Metro in frozen food along with Focus to help bind and the instructions state how much to add. Have you ever tried Levamisole? I've used that as well and found it to be a superior internal dewormer and seemingly easier on the fish.

So I'm confused, did you use the cupramine at 0.18 or the copper sulfate at 0.18 for 4.5 weeks. I don't have copper sulfate, so at the moment my plan is to stick with the cupramine...it's also what I have experience with.

For the Metro, how much did you use? What is Focus? Where do you get the Levamisole?

Thanks for checking back in, I can't wait to get these guys in their final home. Hope ziggy is doing well.

[tylersarah]

I went with Cupramine since it's supposedly safer and non-chelated at .18ppm. Initially, I didn't agree with the directions stating to use 20 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat, so I questioned not only the ramp time, but the dosage itself. Bob Fenner's wetwebmedia site has info on .14-.18ppm effective copper dosages, but I did not save the bookmark. My experience with copper is very limited, but my understanding is all fish have varying tolerances, so I chose the lowest effective dosage. Will it always work? I don't know and I've never used it for ich, but the marine velvet fish I cured were pinched from dehydration, respirating rapidly on the bottom of the tank, full of the dusty velvet parasites and had signs of septicema.

Seachem makes Metro and Focus, I used both. Metro instructions say, "To feed, blend 1 measure with about 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste. To minimize loss during feeding use with Focus™. Food may be refrozen."

Levamisole is sold online as a pigeon dewormer, I dosed one crushed tablet into the 20 gal QT, it can also be used in a dip. It's highly effective and can be overdosed safely (within reason).

I've also used NFP's Paracide-X, but I needed A LOT of fish food to properly dose the med because I couldn't measure .05mg powder to make a small batch, so for this product a scale is needed.

That's all I know, or at least what I think I know :)

Ziggy is currently zipping around the tank looking for every last blackworm! For him, Formalin proved to be the most effective method for stubborn flukes, although, I still have not opened that scary DeLos bottle, so I can't comment there. He still has small secondary infections that pop up, but I have watched his immune system take care of all of them - also been feeding with Selcon.

[tylersarah]

Oh and the Metro + Focus combo is most useful when you've got another med in the tank like copper and can't add anything more to the water. I've even used Focus to bind erythromycin to frozen food, and that worked great (for the septicema fish). I've had a lot of fish disease in the last year!!!!!!!

[caribfan]

Thought i'd put a quick update out.

I have spent the last 8 days or so getting the cupramine concentration to just above 0.30 as tested with my Seachem Multitest kit (I don't really like this kit). I will keep it here for two weeks and then begin prazi treatment.

The fish all seem to be handling it fine, no appetite suppression or anything like that. The only thing that is a bit concerning is the Flavirostris has taken a liking only to clams. The appetite preferences of both the Flavirostris and Rainfordi seem to change from time to time. He still eats clams with extreme vigor and he gets one if not two a day.

None of these fish have ever showed signs of C. Irritans, but they will still get a 2 or 3 week treatment depending on how they handle it.

[caribfan]

Time for a quick update, post cupramine treatment. I was able to maintain the dosage at 0.3 for 21 days with no ill effects on the Flavirostris, Rainfordi or the little Regal angel that's in my QT.

I have also found that the Flavirostris appears to really like the red algae sheets from two little fishes. All fish are now eating foods suspended in the water column as well, however the absolute favorite is still the little neck clams, which they get at least every other day if not more often.

This has been the longest quarantine session, primarily because my new DT is still not ready. I still have to put them through two prazi treatments.

Can anyone comment on the addition of metro to food? Which metro? How much was added and for what treatmente time? Any ill effects?

[SDguy]

How are they doing? I was just looking at my flavirostris and rainfordi yesterday, and thinking, Yeesh! They are big! Especially the flavirostris.... be prepared!

[caribfan]

They are doing well! The Flavi does not like the Rainfordi, it's always chasing it away from clams and the algae sheets that I feed. I'm sad that they are still in holding tanks and not my main display, my progress on my 240 is slow slow slow. I'm working on finishing up my filter and once that's done, things should speed up considerably.

If I get some time, I'll try to post a picture of two of them tonight or tomorrow. How big is the flavirostris getting? I've always heard of dinner plate size semilarvatus and would love to see that one day, but the ones in captivity never seem to reach that size.

Thanks for checking in.

[SDguy]

How big is the flavirostris getting? I've always heard of dinner plate size semilarvatus and would love to see that one day, but the ones in captivity never seem to reach that size.


I think mine's neck and neck with the saddleback, but the flavi is MUCH bulkier. Neat thing is that the yellow portion of his back is getting brighter with age...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7466/15769547420_a950576219_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7553/15780595320_3285cb60fd_b.jpg