t5 or leds

[reefndude]

Im currently running t5's on my 75. Upgrading to a 125 sometime after Christmas. I thought I made my mine up to go t5's again... had good success with it. But now I've been thinking leds. What does everyone think and why?
Thanks for any feedback

[Mark Bianco]

Whats the cost of yearly bulb replacement for the T5's? Led's are rated to last 50,000 hours that's 13.69 years at 10 hours a day. No I do not think any fixture will last 13 years, but I do not think 5 years out of a quality fixture is not being unreasonable... Lets assume you went with a 10 bulb 80 watt T5 fixture that's 800 watts of power and lets say you went with 3 led fixtures that draw 100 watts each that's 300 watts. So running the T5's will cost you 2.6 times more just in energy cost alone. Now add to that the yearly bulb replacement and I think you can see why I like a quality full spectrum led fixture over T5 or Metal halides.

Mark

[RedStangGA]

My only caution on LED's is make sure you'll stick with what you buy. Saving the cost on T-5 bulbs doesn't matter if you're upgrading your LED fixture(s) every 2-3 years. LED's can save you money but you have to stick with them to realize those savings.

[kikoreefer]

I would definitely go led I tried to rebel against the movement and do metal halide t5 but it's a ridiculous power bill lol. Plus have to run my chiller. I actually enjoy my reef breeder fixture because I can easily replace leds and make the color I want. It's not like spending 900 on a maxspect possibly not enjoying the layout and then not being able to retrofit.

[reefndude]

Are all of you achieving good growth?

[Bpb]

Growing ability aside, leave out the bulb replacement cost argument. Most people are upgrading led units about as frequently as they would change their t5 bulbs, and even if you sell your LEDs, it'll likely be at a loss. Every two years when the major manufacturers are releasing new puck combinations, you're gonna pay $150-$200 per unit to upgrade. Not to mention, the cost of a new (non bridgelux, non-DIY) led fixture (or multiples) are going to cause your energy savings to to break even but after several years. By my own personal calculations based on what I pay in electricity per kWh, vs bulb cost, and the cost of new LEDs, if I went cheap and got a reef breeders photon 48, it would take using that fixture for 7 years before the cost of upgrading made me simply break even vs t5 energy cost and bulb replacement. And my t5s can grow anything I desire and color is wonderful.

Point is...LEDs are great, but are they better? Nobody can say. It's subjective. But certainly don't base your decision on cost difference of energy used and bulb replacements. The difference is gonna be marginal and your led cost up front is going to be high enough to make that irrelevant. Get what you WANT and what you can afford. If you like the color of LEDs. Get LEDs. I like them a lot. They're fantastic. But my t5s perform so well, I personally can't justify spending $500-$1000 to switch to LEDs.

[Dashylock]

I just switched to led from t5. I could never justify spending the money for new fixtures but I got a great deal on 2 used fixtures and I will break even after 1.5 years of use. Look,for used units if you want led but don't want to drop the coin!

[reefndude]

I do lovey t5's but im upgrading from 4 to 6 ft tank. Im getting a new fixture regardless. I need to do something. Leds will be diy if I go that route. Or possibly combo.

[FlyPenFly]

Cost savings with LED is a crock for hobbyists.

[Bpb]

In that case I would either do 3 kessil a360w (first choice), or one of the rapidled 6 ft tank packages, dimmable, and I would make the color combination and specific diode choices mirror the radion pro as closely as I could.

[kikoreefer]

Well if you can honestly say leds are as costly as metal halides than I believe that's a crock. I have nevada energy graphs that show consumption. Now if you are not happy and constantly changing your leds, just as if you were replacing lamps then that can be comparable anyways leds are the better choice especially if you are handy and can DIY

[reefndude]

Why are guys switching back to halides or t5's

[quantim0]

I only know a few reefers personally, 4 have switched to led in the last year or two, every one is either back to t5 or switching back. I started my new tank on led and now have t5 over it.

I'm not saying led can't grow a great tank, I've seen plenty on here. I think the success rate is much lower than the failure rate.

[reefndude]

I only know a few reefers personally, 4 have switched to led in the last year or two, every one is either back to t5 or switching back. I started my new tank on led and now have t5 over it.

I'm not saying led can't grow a great tank, I've seen plenty on here. I think the success rate is much lower than the failure rate.

Do you think its from type of leds being used?

[rtparty]

Why are guys switching back to halides or t5's

Because LEDs are a major PITA. LED fanboys will jump in here and tell you they are the greatest thing ever invented in the history of the world! Then they'll justify why the fixture they bought is the best out there.

They'll usually throw around "cost savings" and some hypothetical numbers. When in fact, it's nearly impossible to calculate your actual usage without the proper devices to do so. It's all just theory.

LEDs have their place in the hobby. Some people truly love their look and accept them for what they are. Others don't accept the look they provide.

I used to be an all LED individual for nearly 18 months. My tank did alright but never truly took off. I tried multiple fixtures all claiming to be the greatest. They all fell short of my expectations.

Then I went back to all T5s for quite a while but I really missed the effect from royal blue LEDs. So now I use the ATI LED PowerModule and have the best of both worlds. Best lighting I've ever seen or used.

[reefndude]

I am also considering getting 60" 4 bulb sunpower and supplementing leds (diy)
Cant afford the ati hybrid. Have read alot of good things about that fixture

[Reef Frog]

I am still all T5 as I've been reading about the machinations LED users have to go through to get the results they want. Since they're working so well & corals are thriving I'm hesitant to change now and s screw things up. It seems the best technology is only now emerging; fully adjustable color spectrum & bulb by bulb on/off & intensity adjustments. All the posts about bleaching leave me cd. A career in technology has shown me that pioneers often get all the arrows. But people do have great results with them and we owe all the early adopters our gratitude for doing the early work - someday I believe they will be super flexible and priced low enough that they'll be a no brainer.

One consideration in the long term cost arguement AGAINST T5s is the cost of ballast replacement. In a 7 year analysis it's likely they will need replacement as will the cooling fans I imagine. These costs plus the hassle factor should go into the cost calculations to see the big picture for those who are looking at this aspect of ownership. Correct me if I'm wrong, but LEDs have no equivalent that will need replacement or service during the life of the product.

[reefndude]

Thats where I am with the deal. Having good success with t5's on my 75. Im upgrading to a 125 and thats why im even thinking about leds at this point.
I am due up for new bulbs now but not buying any. Hoping to have new tank up and running in January

[Rognin]

How about both?

ATI's T5 LED hybrid gives you the best of both worlds (at a premium).

I love my T5's and I'm curious about LED's, so my next light will incorporate both! =D

[Drae]

t5's are better than led's for our needs. Period. The ati powermodule hybrid is the best light available on the market though, growth and colors from proven t5 and added visual appeal from the led's. If led's are all that then why is it taking so long to for them to match the performance of t5 and metal halides? t5 and halides only took one day to grow and color up corals... and that's the day they became available to us hobbiest. The initial setup cost of led's and the so called "savings" is cow crap imo.

[reefndude]

Im also considering going that route.

[Ben_1313]

t5's are better than led's for our needs. Period. The ati powermodule hybrid is the best light available on the market though, growth and colors from proven t5 and added visual appeal from the led's. If led's are all that then why is it taking so long to for them to match the performance of t5 and metal halides? t5 and halides only took one day to grow and color up corals... and that's the day they became available to us hobbiest. The initial setup cost of led's and the so called "savings" is cow crap imo.


You can't just say things and claim as fact and then put period at the end to make it seem more correct. Period.

You can state opinions all you want but you need to back them up with evidence. You have things that work for you just as other people do things that work for them.

[tannersmith2000]

I was in the same dilemma with the OP. After some research and valuable responses from actual users, the ATI LED Power module is the fixture I am purchasing for my 30 gallon rimless SPS tank.

I was on the see saw of Radion Pro and ATI T5 sunpower.

I really like LEDs but utilizing both LED and T5 is just perfect combo for me. I can't wait to get this fixture hung.

It's expensive but it will be worth it.

[reefndude]

True, but t5's and halides have proven themselves. As well as many success stories from leds. I do believe they all have there pros and cons. That i s why I cant make up my mind lol

[plasma327]

I too would like to voice an opinion. I, being an old school halide guy from the 90's swore nothing else (back then) would ever compare to MH. So, new job ,moving etc.. put me out of the hobby in 02. I just recently dove back in in 2011 and of started back with MH. Being intrigued by LED I tried rapid,radion,AI and just did not appreciate there look. I happened across a ATI sumpower 8 bulb dimmable and ran it for a while. Great color,growth(BTW all of this on a 120)but still missed the MH look. Went to a friend that had been raving about Kessil he had. I went and checked it out and was very impressed. SO I started research and was strongly leaning to the ATI power module. I was not able to justify over 2 grand on a fixture I was unsure I would or would not like. I decided that I could make my own. I got 2 Kessil 360WE and 4 tube T-5 on a 660 vue ballast. I ended up with basically a poermodule for half the cost. Running on the apex I have full control of the Kessil's.. My growth is great, My color is great and I have the MH look. Just my 2cent's worth.

[Drae]

You can't just say things and claim as fact and then put period at the end to make it seem more correct. Period.

You can state opinions all you want but you need to back them up with evidence. You have things that work for you just as other people do things that work for them.

T5's grow coral better than led's IMO and in the opinion and experiences of a lot of other respected reefers. Led's have a lt of unsatisfied users since they came out and there's plenty of threads where people have gone back to other lighting sources. It just seems that if we're still even debating this topic then it's obvious to me at least that t'5's are proven and led's are still trying to be proven. Proof to me is more than a couple dozen tanks that have done well with a particular light source. Proof to me is the countless number of tanks that thrive under t5, mh, etc. You are correct about stating opinion as facts but my opinion's are based of factual experiences from well respected reefers from all over the world. But yes... this is JMHO

[Ben_1313]

True, but t5's and halides have proven themselves. As well as many success stories from leds. I do believe they all have there pros and cons. That i s why I cant make up my mind lol


I agree it is difficult! What might help is list the pros and cons of both and see which ones are more important to you.

Do you live in an area where your tank might need a chiller?

Is electric expensive?

Etc.

[FlyPenFly]

I think part of the reason LEDs have so much baggage is that a lot of new refers who have no idea what they're doing buy some top end fixtures and then complain their tanks are doing horrible. It's not the lights, it's the person. Ahem, one in this very forum recently until he had to move on.

LED's work but I wouldn't buy LEDs because they save money.

[Ben_1313]

T5's grow coral better than led's IMO and in the opinion and experiences of a lot of other respected reefers. Led's have a lt of unsatisfied users since they came out and there's plenty of threads where people have gone back to other lighting sources. It just seems that if we're still even debating this topic then it's obvious to me at least that t'5's are proven and led's are still trying to be proven. Proof to me is more than a couple dozen tanks that have done well with a particular light source. Proof to me is the countless number of tanks that thrive under t5, mh, etc. You are correct about stating opinion as facts but my opinion's are based of factual experiences from well respected reefers from all over the world. But yes... this is JMHO


Until it's quantified nobody can prove anything. Correlation doesn't mean causation. There's a lack of quantified scientific data on this subject and that's what I abide by.

I'm really not trying to say you're wrong or start a flame war :) just that there are success stories from both camps

Water quality plays a larger role in coral color than lighting, IMO.

[Ben_1313]

I think part of the reason LEDs have so much baggage is that a lot of new refers who have no idea what they're doing buy some top end fixtures and then complain their tanks are doing horrible. It's not the lights, it's the person. Ahem, one in this very forum recently until he had to move on.

LED's work but I wouldn't buy LEDs because they save money.


That guy was a super ridiculous and obnoxious.

[Drae]

I too would like to voice an opinion. I, being an old school halide guy from the 90's swore nothing else (back then) would ever compare to MH. So, new job ,moving etc.. put me out of the hobby in 02. I just recently dove back in in 2011 and of started back with MH. Being intrigued by LED I tried rapid,radion,AI and just did not appreciate there look. I happened across a ATI sumpower 8 bulb dimmable and ran it for a while. Great color,growth(BTW all of this on a 120)but still missed the MH look. Went to a friend that had been raving about Kessil he had. I went and checked it out and was very impressed. SO I started research and was strongly leaning to the ATI power module. I was not able to justify over 2 grand on a fixture I was unsure I would or would not like. I decided that I could make my own. I got 2 Kessil 360WE and 4 tube T-5 on a 660 vue ballast. I ended up with basically a poermodule for half the cost. Running on the apex I have full control of the Kessil's.. My growth is great, My color is great and I have the MH look. Just my 2cent's worth.

Kessil led's have the best shimmer I've ever seen. Jmo

[plasma327]

I agree Drae. I was really impressed when I first saw them.

[rtparty]

I wouldn't say a couple Kessil LEDs and 4 T5s are comparable to an ATI LED PowerModule. Especially when using a vue 660 ballast.

Everything on the ATI LED PowerModule is automatically cooled and kept at the optimum operating temperature. It is also packed in a stylish housing. Each LED channel is totally controllable and the T5s are dimmable as well.

The only thing they have in common is that LEDs and T5s are being used.

However, with a canopy it would be a nice setup for sure.

[plasma327]

I wouldn't say a couple Kessil LEDs and 4 T5s are comparable to an ATI LED PowerModule. Especially when using a vue 660 ballast.

Everything on the ATI LED PowerModule is automatically cooled and kept at the optimum operating temperature. It is also packed in a stylish housing. Each LED channel is totally controllable and the T5s are dimmable as well.

The only thing they have in common is that LEDs and T5s are being used.

However, with a canopy it would be a nice setup for sure.

I disagree, Other than the fixture housing it all comes in. The Vue ballast drives 4 t5's as hard if not more than the ATI ballast. My setup is in a hood with cooling. My Kessils are fully adjustable via my apex. The Kessils are full spectrum led as well. I believe it very comparable if not very close.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2215-1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2212-1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2238.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2237.jpg
I have 4 150 CFM controllable(rpm) for a total of 600cfm through my canopy. Cooling? I got that covered
I believe my set up is very comparable for half the cost but a canopy does make it possible.

[rtparty]

I disagree, Other than the fixture housing it all comes in. The Vue ballast drives 4 t5's as hard if not more than the ATI ballast. My setup is in a hood with cooling. My Kessils are fully adjustable via my apex. The Kessils are full spectrum led as well. I believe it very comparable if not very close.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2215-1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2212-1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2238.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/Sale%20Pics/100_2237.jpg
I have 4 150 CFM controllable(rpm) for a total of 600cfm through my canopy. Cooling? I got that covered
I believe my set up is very comparable for half the cost but a canopy does make it possible.

Vue ballasts are not proper t5 ballasts. They wear bulbs down much quicker and use a lot more electricity doing so.

A bunch of fans doesn't equate to proper cooling. You could be over cooling the bulbs unless you've measured the temps on your end caps and have everything properly setup. The ATI is thermostatically controlled all the way around. It is also uses proper t5 ballasts to get the most from the bulbs without killing them in 6 months time.

Again, I like the setup especially with a canopy.

[plasma327]

Vue ballasts are not proper t5 ballasts. They wear bulbs down much quicker and use a lot more electricity doing so.

A bunch of fans doesn't equate to proper cooling. You could be over cooling the bulbs unless you've measured the temps on your end caps and have everything properly setup. The ATI is thermostatically controlled all the way around. It is also uses proper t5 ballasts to get the most from the bulbs without killing them in 6 months time.

Again, I like the setup especially with a canopy.

Thanks for you opinion and insight. Yes the fans are thermostatically controlled but a couple of bulbs every 7 months(I have a par meter) compared to the overall money we spend is just pennies. Is it a powermodule?
NO. But I do I believe it is the next best setup? Yes. Do my fish and coral care I spent a little over $1000.00 and not over $2000.00? Nope. In the end it is all about providing the optimum for our wet life we keep and I believe I have accomplished that well.

[plasma327]

Here are some growth pics from when I first set this up and 2 months in. I do not think you can argue with the results.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/SPS%20Frags/100_2161.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/SPS%20Frags/100_2146.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/SPS%20Frags/100_2185.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/plasma327/SPS%20Frags/100_2177.jpg

[reefndude]

Very nice! Really liking the hybrid setup. Sps look awesome. What bulbs are you using plasma?

[plasma327]

Very nice! Really liking the hybrid setup. Sps look awesome. What bulbs are you using plasma?

Thanks. 2 blue plus, one purple plus, one actinic and the Kessils are roughly around a 13K or as close as I could get to that.

[nanoreefer1000]

Im currently running t5's on my 75. Upgrading to a 125 sometime after Christmas. I thought I made my mine up to go t5's again... had good success with it. But now I've been thinking leds. What does everyone think and why?
Thanks for any feedback Both IMO, I like the technology in LED's, but T5HO's have some sweet color and spread.

[reefndude]

I think I will do a hybrid set up.
Thank you everyone for their input. I really appreciate it.