Urgent! Advice needed on Cupramine after Cuprazin please?!!

[LadyDave]

Hello! I'm after some quick advice on what to do with my two poorly clowns in their hospital tank. I got back from holiday last night and they were not looking happy - either have ich or velvet, I'm struggling to diagnose which. I rushed out to my LFS hoping to get cupramine but they only had cuprazin. It was 5oclock and everywhere was closing so I bought the cuprazin and dosed the hospital tank with it last night.

Now I've read horrible things about Cuprazin and my fish are looking worse now than yesterday so I went out and found cupramine today. I really want to use the cupramine instead but I'm assuming I need to get the cuprazin out of my HT?? What's the best way to do this? I could do a 100% water change with water from my DT if needed but worried that will stress the already stressed fish more!

Help please?!???

[LadyDave]

Anyone?!?! I've done a copper test on the HT water with a Salifert kit - it's showing zero copper!! Has it been filtered out already? I'm assuming if it's showing zero copper, a 50% water change with Cupramine added to the new water would be sufficient???

[HumbleFish]

I would do the 100% WC and just start over with Cupramine. There are other ways to take copper out of the water, but none as quickly as 100% WC.

Btw, being these are clownfish, are you sure you aren't dealing with Brooklynella instead? Brook requires formalin treatment - copper will not help. How long ago did you add these fish?

[LadyDave]

Thanks for the response! I'm really struggling to diagnose what's wrong with them. I started a thread a little over a week ago wanting advice on what to do as I was going away. They have been looking a little sorry for themselves for about two weeks now but I didn't want to dose copper when I was going away and without being sure what I was dealing with. I suspect it's ich or velvet over brook because of the length of time they've been symptomatic. They have been showing very small white spots on and off for a while but some of the spots are really powdery fine which is why I thought velvet. Maybe both?!??

Both fish are still eating and swimming around with all fins full.

[LadyDave]

The copper test def shows zero.... Just realised I put a poly filter pad in the HT filter cos it's what was in my DT and thought it might help keep ammonia down. Could that be what's filtered out the copper??

Stupid question time, but if I do a 100% (really wanted to avoid it cos of the stress it will cause my fish) what do I do with the fish?? Put them in the bucket with the old water while I wait to add the new? Wouldn't catching them again REALLY stress them??

[HumbleFish]

Brook & Velvet are both usually fast killers, so if this has been going on for awhile now I would suspect Ich. If so, Cupramine is probably your best treatment option. Any other tank mates? If so, they all need to be treated, and the DT needs to be left fallow for at least 72 days.

[HumbleFish]

The copper test def shows zero.... Just realised I put a poly filter pad in the HT filter cos it's what was in my DT and thought it might help keep ammonia down. Could that be what's filtered out the copper??

Stupid question time, but if I do a 100% (really wanted to avoid it cos of the stress it will cause my fish) what do I do with the fish?? Put them in the bucket with the old water while I wait to add the new? Wouldn't catching them again REALLY stress them??

I'm not familiar with "Cuprazin", but assuming it's primarily a copper based med; then yeah, a poly filter would have removed it. Your call whether to just add Cupramine or start fresh. Obviously, the safe bet would be to just start fresh to avoid any possibility of interaction. You could just put the clowns in a bucket (or even back in the DT in a fish trap) whilst you work.

[LadyDave]

No these are my first two fish... DT is now fallow.... Bought more CUC today so going to concentrate on sorting the DT while it's fallow.

Cuprazin label says Copper Sulphate 11468mg/l, Malachite Green 732mg/l and formaldehyde as a stabiliser.

I'm no chemist so no idea how this would react with Cupramine so maybe a 100% water change would be best. Poor fish will be very stressed tho :(

[MrTuskfish]

Hello! I'm after some quick advice on what to do with my two poorly clowns in their hospital tank. I got back from holiday last night and they were not looking happy - either have ich or velvet, I'm struggling to diagnose which. I rushed out to my LFS hoping to get cupramine but they only had cuprazin. It was 5oclock and everywhere was closing so I bought the cuprazin and dosed the hospital tank with it last night.

Now I've read horrible things about Cuprazin and my fish are looking worse now than yesterday so I went out and found cupramine today. I really want to use the cupramine instead but I'm assuming I need to get the cuprazin out of my HT?? What's the best way to do this? I could do a 100% water change with water from my DT if needed but worried that will stress the already stressed fish more!

Help please?!???
Don't worry so much about "stress"; changing the water isn't going to kill them. Parasites will.

[LadyDave]

It's the catching them in the net too many times I'm worried about rather than the water change. So are we all decided the best course is a 100% water change with DT water??

[HumbleFish]

It's the catching them in the net too many times I'm worried about rather than the water change. So are we all decided the best course is a 100% water change with DT water??

That's what I would do. And if it makes you feel any better, clownfish are pretty tough. I once saw a video where a guy grabbed his clownfish (using gloves) and force tube fed the fish. So, they can survive a lot worse than being netted too many times. ;)

[LadyDave]

OMG that's awful!! Thanks.... Does make me feel better!! I'm very find of my little pair so really don't want to harm them as much as possible!

[tylersarah]

I purchased assorted sizes of these in lieu of nets from Target:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/92/aa/ae/92aaaea60a296723f7fb506b29b38d8a.jpg

The square design makes it easier to catch them in corners.

[Deinonych]

I purchased assorted sizes of these in lieu of nets from Target:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/92/aa/ae/92aaaea60a296723f7fb506b29b38d8a.jpg

The square design makes it easier to catch them in corners.

Nice! I may have to pick a couple of these up.

[LadyDave]

Thanks! I got them in the net no probs and they are now both back in the HT with the Cupramine dose..... Hope it works soon!!

[MrTuskfish]

Thanks! I got them in the net no probs and they are now both back in the HT with the Cupramine dose..... Hope it works soon!!

It will start to work as soon as it reaches therapeutic levels; but the disappearance of spots is not an accurate indicator of progress. I'd leave them in the copper for 4 weeks, read about ich in the stickies above, and read the following. The FAQ are vital. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

Cupramine will work with ich or velvet; but be sure the fish don't have brooklynella. The big indicator of brook is peeling/sloughing skin and this parasite is especially common with clownfish.

[LadyDave]

They don't have peeling skin, just white spots.... Plus they've had it for too long for it to be brook I think???? They started looking unwell about two weeks ago.

[LadyDave]

Ok so I'm a complete idiot!!!

I have just realised that I didn't put enough cupramine in the water. I'm numerically dyslexic and find maths incredibly confusing. I have a 26liter HT, bare bottom, sponge trickle filter in the hood. I calculated wrong and put 7 drops of cupramine in the new water. Just discovered that was half what I should have put in and that too lower dose can be harmful? I was going to do a 50% water change today to make sure ammonia levels don't creep up and add more cupramine to the new water. So I've figured out that I should've put 13 drops in in the first place so if I add 10 drops to the new water to replace what I take out in the water change and put in the correct dose I should have in the first place.... Does that sound right???? I wish I was better at maths!!!

Fish are doing better today, swimming around more and eating well!

[HumbleFish]

It's best to use a test kit to determine your copper concentration than just rely on the directions on the back of the bottle. I believe for Cupramine a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit will work. You need the copper level to be somewhere between 0.35-0.5 mg/L, and keep it there for 30 consecutive days.