What's your favorite brand salt mix ?

[Jettareefer]

I have always used Reef Crystals by instant Ocean with okay results and usually test and buffer it before a water change because each bucket has a variance in elements. With that said I would like see what everyone else is using and what you like about the brand you use. I also dose brightwell aquatic A and B calcium and alkalinity as well potassium. All feedback will be appreciated greatly!
-Addison

[Allmost]

I use TMPR.

once a month, so quarter of my WCs, I use a different salt. RC,KZ RBS, IO ...

[sirreal63]

I have been sticking with regular IO for several years. I have never found a compelling reason to use anything else.

[Froggy]

I have been sticking with regular IO for several years. I have never found a compelling reason to use anything else.


Ditto. The only salt I have ever used.
Joe

[Jettareefer]

Sirreal63 how are the mag and cal levels in the instant ocean ?

[gcarroll]

IO because i know what i'm getting. It's always the same batch after batch.

[Constrictor6090]

Red Sea Coral Pro, makes coralline algae grow like crazy.

[Nanook]

IO here as well for many years. Consistent from batch to batch as mentioned. Usually one of the lowest priced as well which helps when you change 225 gallons of water at a time.

[sirreal63]

Sirreal63 how are the mag and cal levels in the instant ocean ?

It stays fairly consistent, alk 10-11, cal 400-420 and mag 1300-1400. One thing I have learned is the bags are much more consistent than the buckets, I suspect this is because of stratification of the mix with the buckets.

[Jettareefer]

Sirreal63 I have a clarifying question when you mentioned the bags are you referring to the 200 gallon mix boxes (I assume they would package it in bag inside the box)?


Nanook I would say with changing that much water you would have to make it cost effective, it looks like the general consensus Instant Ocean floats the boat.

[sirreal63]

Correct, the 200 gallon boxes have individual 50 gallon bags.

[reeflover62]

Tried a lot of brands and don't think you need anything special. IORC works for me.

[ThorEffex]

IO is pretty consistent

Calcium-390
Magnesium-1470
Alkalinity-10
Iodine-.01
Potassium-410

[albano]

ESV for myself, as well as for a few friends with SPS dominate tanks

[Roy Arena]

I switched to Red Sea regular but have decided to go back to using Instant Ocean.

[reefndude]

reef crystals

[jda]

IO or TMPR for me too. I like the bags as well. I dry mix the TMPR up like crazy before I use it.

[GroktheCube]

I use ESV. Mixes faster than any other I've tried, and is always 100% consistent.

[Bigcefa]

I get low readings on magnesium from IO. 1150-1200 not sure I've been having to dose it up

[mark54321]

ESV for me too, 10 min. and is ready to go, always consistent results.

[Dapg8gt]

I switched to of all salts Kent. It was on a recommendation of a fellow old school reefer and it's cheap. Been consistent for the last 6 months. Mixes clear in about an hour and no residue left behind.

Switched from IO. Didn't like always having to dose each batch. I never seemed to get the levels stated above. Cal was around 370 max. Alk was 11-12 and mag was usually below 1100.


Kents numbers
Alk 9-10
Cal 450
Mag 1350ish
What I'm not too happy about is the potassium is at about 500. a little high so since the switch my levels have been 450 and a little above. I havent noticed any negatives but I have read some negatives on elevated levels and sps.

[Peter Eichler]

I go back and forth between IO and RC, usually RC since with the LFS 2 time a year group buy it's super cheap. I'd love it if only the alkalinity was lower. But, shutting my reactor down over night usually fixes matters.

[basser1]

Been using Red Sea Coral Pro for the last couple of years. I have a small tank, 29 gallons, so I don't mind the extra cost.

My SPS look great with fantastic growth!

[Arkayology]

I've used TM and TMPR for the last three years. Both have worked very well for me.

[slimm]

I have been using RC. So far so good.

[Real Reefer]

RC here

[Jettareefer]

Thanks everyone for all the input!

For the people who mentioned the ESV salt mixing quickly that is awesome attribute, from what I can tell you have everything separate bags and you mix it to your desired levels ? Correct me if I am wrong I have only seen pictures online. I still have a hard time justifying spending double. But it sounds amazing.

Redsea pro salt I have heard mixed reviews people loved it or had problems while using it.(I have personal friend who like it a lot but he is a softie/Lps guy)

Kent is always a good choice I have used the buffers and supplements since I started salt water when I was in grade school hah.

Instant ocean still pulling my hand the price is right, it seems most have been using it for years . For me that speaks for the quality.

Let's keep it going! :)
-Addison

[Jfannin]

IO and RC leaves a very bad brown residue on everything in the mixing containers. Ill never use it again because i believe the brown crap ends up in the DT as well. Ive had issues in the past from this.

ESV does come with each part of the mix in separate containers. 2 of witch are in powered form bagged up. the other 2 parts come in liquid form in 1 gallon containers. The mixing is easy and is a nice and clean result. Can say it worth the cost but its better then IO or RC

Im going to be trying Kent Reef as soon as it come in. i actually just ordered it earlier today. I will be depending on WC for my dosing and as a major part of my filtering / export. So we'll see.

[MBMAX]

Red Sea coral pro here

[Jettareefer]

Jfannin:IO and RC leaves a very bad brown residue on everything in the mixing containers. Ill never use it again because i believe the brown crap ends up in the DT as well. Ive had issues in the past from this.

ESV does come with each part of the mix in separate containers. 2 of witch are in powered form bagged up. the other 2 parts come in liquid form in 1 gallon containers. The mixing is easy and is a nice and clean result. Can say it worth the cost but its better then IO or RC

Im going to be trying Kent Reef as soon as it come in. i actually just ordered it earlier today. I will be depending on WC for my dosing and as a major part of my filtering / export. So we'll see.[/QUOTE]


Let me know how the kent reef work out whenever you get around to trying it out.

[sirreal63]

IO and RC leaves a very bad brown residue on everything in the mixing containers. Ill never use it again because i believe the brown crap ends up in the DT as well. Ive had issues in the past from this.

Im going to be trying Kent Reef as soon as it come in. i actually just ordered it earlier today. I will be depending on WC for my dosing and as a major part of my filtering / export. So we'll see.

With IO I don't get the residue but did with RC, and this seems to be the norm. The brown residue is thought to be from the chelators that RC has and IO does not. RC also adds vitamins that are not needed in the tank and can be a problem for having mixed saltwater on hand.

I never used Kent salt but I have a rule against any Kent or Brightwell products in my tank. I know a lot of people have used Kent salt with no real issues over the years.

[Jettareefer]

Sirreall63 Just out of curiosity why have you ruled against bright well products ?

[sirreal63]

They employ gimmick marketing. Look at the myriad of products they offer and ask yourself why is that needed? They will gladly try to convince you that these products are necessary and eagerly take your money while not actually providing you with anything your tank really needs. Shiny labels and hyped up pseudo-science and repackaged existing products does not create a healthy tank, it creates a healthy bank account for Kent and Brightwell. You can have a healthy tank without adding all of those crazy products. A perfect example of this is MB7. I encourage you to try and keep bacteria out of your tank, you cannot do it, so why buy a "supposedly" live bacteria strain and add it to your tank?

[dowtish]

I have noticed that if I mix my salt for 20 minutes and let it dissolve and mix well, and then turn on my heater I dont get hardly any brown residue, as compared to heating the water prior to adding the salt.

BTW, I use Red Sea salt. the regular Red Sea, not the Coral Pro. I like that it mixes at 8dkh

[jda]

Take good pictures of your brightest, and most contrasting SPS before, and after, switching to Kent salt. IMO, and many will agree, that the brightest will not pop as well as they did on other salts, and the contrasts will not contrast as well. IMO, it is excess metal in the salt, but what do I know? I can run some metal-remoiving resin after mixing a fresh batch and it will turn colors - which do not happen with other salts. In any case, and I am probably wrong about the cause, I can tell a substantial difference with kent and coralife salt, which I believe to be equally bad for SPS, so I avoid them. I cannot tell any difference with any other type of coral or fish using Kent. IO is the same money (mostly), so I just stick with it.

I also avoid any salt with the bio stuff in it.

I have never got any brown residue with any salt as long as the water volume is in place before I add the salt, and the salt is mixed (or bags added). I have had issues adding 44G of salt to 10G of water and then adding more water later, and stuff like that. I do it like this... dry mix salt, if not in a bag equal in volume => full volume of water => salt mix in => mix for 20-30 minutes => heater in the water.

[Allmost]

They employ gimmick marketing. Look at the myriad of products they offer and ask yourself why is that needed? They will gladly try to convince you that these products are necessary and eagerly take your money while not actually providing you with anything your tank really needs. Shiny labels and hyped up pseudo-science and repackaged existing products does not create a healthy tank, it creates a healthy bank account for Kent and Brightwell. You can have a healthy tank without adding all of those crazy products. A perfect example of this is MB7. I encourage you to try and keep bacteria out of your tank, you cannot do it, so why buy a "supposedly" live bacteria strain and add it to your tank?

oh come on !

this is an old argument, which we have gone over many times.

sure, there are a million ways to run a reef tank, but really ! why judge other methods that get result ? sure, u cant keep bacteria out of tank, but how do u make sure you have bacteria X in your tank ? how about those that see benefit ? we are ALL wrong ? science is wrong too ? ....

I personally am against bright well, and dont use their products. my reasoning is different though. I do not like how they copy other ppls research, and name it as theirs.

sorry, didnt want to derail the thread, but these comments really get to me ...

[sirreal63]

Granted, however if you get results with or without a product, then how do you know the product you are adding is doing anything? If you did not get results without adding it then it would be probable the product is doing something. It is kind of a simple thing to deduce.

Which of their products are necessary?

[GroktheCube]

Thanks everyone for all the input!

For the people who mentioned the ESV salt mixing quickly that is awesome attribute, from what I can tell you have everything separate bags and you mix it to your desired levels ? Correct me if I am wrong I have only seen pictures online. I still have a hard time justifying spending double. But it sounds amazing.

It comes as solid sodium chloride, solid magnesium sulfate, and two liquids containing cal, alk, and minor/trace elements. It's slightly higher alk/cal than NSW, but pretty close.

It's more expensive than IO, but the added convenience makes it worth it for me personally . I don't think it has any magic that makes corals grow better, but it does mix up with params identical to my system in a few minutes, doesn't need any dry mixing, has no batch to batch variation, and always mixes clear without leaving any residue in my mixing brute.

[Allmost]

Granted, however if you get results with or without a product, then how do you know the product you are adding is doing anything? If you did not get results without adding it then it would be probable the product is doing something. It is kind of a simple thing to deduce.

Which of their products are necessary?

okay never mind, I see how u will try to turn this around and change the discussion ...

dosing organic carbon is an example ... but if you have not tried it, I dont think it would be wise to comment about it, right ? ask those that have tried vodka dosing, and also have tried dosing something like Zeostart ...

I know your corals can not look better than they do now as they are just perfect, but if by luck the universe changes, and you do something different and your corals start looking better than before then how would u make a conclusion ? just luck ? or does that mean u werent doing it right before ? answer is none of the above for me, for me, it means the product did that. or what ever the change was.

I run alot of experiments, I have experimented with every single product I use in my tank, I take months trying each product. I started with simple berlin, and took my reef to next level. there are pictures on here of my tank from many years back with just berlin style.

[sirreal63]

Neither Kent or Brightwell are responsible for the Zeo method and have nothing to do with Zeo, but you already know that. I have been carbon dosing since 2005, way before it was cool. I don't see your point? They did not invent carbon dosing. Exactly which Kent or Brightwell product is needed in your tank? The answer is simple, none of them, so why buy them? Most of the time the same exact thing is available without buying a shiny bottle for way too much money.

No one is attacking Zeo and it has nothing to do with Kent or Brightwell.

[dr.big]

Does someone has the same problem as me with the high Alk in all brands? We almost all have alk between 7-10 and almost all brands shows alk levels between 10 and 12. I have 8 i m still to find a brand that does not make alk shift each time i do a water change.

I also use io since it is cheap and available. To reduce the stress i mix my salt a week before doing the water change. It let time for the alk to precipitate a bit. When it is at 9 it is ready for me.

[Allmost]

Neither Kent or Brightwell are responsible for the Zeo method and have nothing to do with Zeo, but you already know that. I have been carbon dosing since 2005, way before it was cool. I don't see your point? They did not invent carbon dosing. Exactly which Kent or Brightwell product is needed in your tank? The answer is simple, none of them, so why buy them? Most of the time the same exact thing is available without buying a shiny bottle for way too much money.

No one is attacking Zeo and it has nothing to do with Kent or Brightwell.

1. I said I dislike bright-well, cause they basically copied Zeovit. [and some others] and came out with .... NEO-ZEO !

2. on your reply about why u dislike kent and bright-well, you said u dislike them cause their products [which are copy of Zeovit] are junk, and not needed.
"You can have a healthy tank without adding all of those crazy products. A perfect example of this is MB7." MB7 was made after brightwell analysing Zeobak in lab :) best we can do is something like VSV ... and then dose no3 ... like kno3. Zeostart3 combines them, in correct ratios.

3. your argument makes no sense. everything we see in this planet, is made of elements described in periodic table. so yes, it is possible for us to make a product rather than buying it, after all, its nothing more than whats on periodic table ... does that means its stupid to buy a car, cause its just metal and plastic ? no ! cause me and u can not make a car in our back yard [well I can't :) maybe u can, ]


anyways ...

[sirreal63]

Does someone has the same problem as me with the high Alk in all brands? We almost all have alk between 7-10 and almost all brands shows alk levels between 10 and 12. I have 8 i m still to find a brand that does not make alk shift each time i do a water change.

I also use io since it is cheap and available. To reduce the stress i mix my salt a week before doing the water change. It let time for the alk to precipitate a bit. When it is at 9 it is ready for me.

There are some that are less than others, but unless you are doing large water changes the addition of the higher alk will have a small impact on the tank. This thread, which is getting a little outdated now may help.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

1. I said I dislike bright-well, cause they basically copied Zeovit. [and some others] and came out with .... NEO-ZEO !

2. on your reply about why u dislike kent and bright-well, you said u dislike them cause their products [which are copy of Zeovit] are junk, and not needed.
"You can have a healthy tank without adding all of those crazy products. A perfect example of this is MB7." MB7 was made after brightwell analysing Zeobak in lab :) best we can do is something like VSV ... and then dose no3 ... like kno3. Zeostart3 combines them, in correct ratios.

3. your argument makes no sense. everything we see in this planet, is made of elements described in periodic table. so yes, it is possible for us to make a product rather than buying it, after all, its nothing more than whats on periodic table ... does that means its stupid to buy a car, cause its just metal and plastic ? no ! cause me and u can not make a car in our back yard [well I can't :) maybe u can, ]


anyways ...

Kent was peddling unnecessary products long before Zeo came about. They used to have a whole line of trace elements you buy in large quantities, there is no telling how many people polluted their tanks over the years thinking they were doing something good. Brightwell is his son in law and carried the tradition forward. Take a look at all of the various additives Brightwell is peddling and then tell me it is needed, not just the Neo ones, but the entire line. I would allmost guarantee you that they did not actually make a copy of the Zeo products but did copy the name. I have real doubts that they reverse engineered the Zeo products but did find a way to cash in on the name game.

I take it back, there is one useful Kent product, their scrapers are pretty good. :dance:

[Jettareefer]

As to expected anything in branded bottle is supposed to be conveint and easy to use(I get brightwell stuff at cost). As much time as I already spend on my tanks I might as well get the raw minerals and mix the solution myself. I see a lot of people using bulk reef supply's stuff. Most of the things kent, brightwell, and other companies sell out side calcium,ph,alk buffers aren't absolutely nessesary if your doing somwhat frequent water changes.

Sirreall63 are you running passive carbon? I have always had a sack In my sump for clarity, and combating chemical warfare. One other question some people say that running carbon on a reef long term detrimental because it will strip water of trace elements. With that said I do disagree and never have had a problem.

[sirreal63]

Not all carbon is the same, some is more aggressive than others, Rox .08 has been noted as one of the most aggressive carbons, and it is also the one I use. I use between a fourth and a half the BRS recommended amount. I have some in a TLF reactor and when I change it out I put the stuff I take out of the reactor and use it in a bag for skimmer effluent, I run a small ozone dose in the skimmer and the carbon helps keep that in check. I have noticed sps lighten when too much of the Rox is used, several people have noticed the same over the years. I don't have very many soft corals but still run a little carbon because I always have.

An interesting thing about salt, no matter what brand you use there is someone using that brand that has been a TOTM or has a gorgeous tank with just about any brand of salt. This sort of suggests that the brand of salt is not a critical factor in the health of a tank. There are reasons to use one salt over another, but it is personal and can vary from person to person.

[Jettareefer]

You bring up a good point salt is just one thing there are a ton of other factors. I feel sometime getting to technical with my reef takes away from the enjoyment I get, I want to simplify my tanks.

[jda]

Does someone has the same problem as me with the high Alk in all brands? We almost all have alk between 7-10 and almost all brands shows alk levels between 10 and 12. I have 8 i m still to find a brand that does not make alk shift each time i do a water change.

I also use io since it is cheap and available. To reduce the stress i mix my salt a week before doing the water change. It let time for the alk to precipitate a bit. When it is at 9 it is ready for me.

Tropic Marin Pro Reef will mix up about 7 if I dry mix the salt. This is the only one all-in-one that I have found that you can stay lower than 9 or 10 with.

[zachogden]

Aquavitro salinity. Big fan.

[trueblackpercula]

I have used
Kent marine pro very good very expensive
Instant ocean very good this is better for fish only tanks
Reef crystals very good

[aqua80]

half IO/ half RC here
have use Deltec salt before, but no differences and more $$

[Mr D smack]

I'm glad to see this thread come up. I was wondering this myself. I recently started a 120 sps and have been using IO. The water change I just did was real low on mag, like 760 low.

[Nanook]

I'm glad to see this thread come up. I was wondering this myself. I recently started a 120 sps and have been using IO. The water change I just did was real low on mag, like 760 low.

My IO usually mixes to 1100-1200 on Magnesium. I would remix and remeasure as that seems pretty unlikely.

[Mr D smack]

My IO usually mixes to 1100-1200 on Magnesium. I would remix and remeasure as that seems pretty unlikely.

I planned on it :thumbsup:

Of course it could be just me getting a dsmacked batch too

[Nanook]

That's the great thing about IO, it consistently tests. If you mix to 35ppt, you should see 1100-1200-ish. Let us know.

[Volcano1]

I see alot of folks like IO, instead of RC.Is there a big reason?

[Psionicdragon]

Io!

[Peter Eichler]

Sirreal, I generally have the same rule...

Kent is a copy of Thiel and Brightwell is a copy of Kent, Continuum somehow copies all of them ;)

The only think Zeo did was convince people to remove nutrients to the point that they would have to add some back, and then they sold their customers those things as well with crazy margins! Brilliant! Or was that Prodibio that came up with it and then Zeovit copied it? I can't recall...

[maikoa02]

ESV for me. Consistent parameters that match my systems. No need to alter my dosing. The benefits of keeping my parameters stable far outweigh the added cost of the salt.

[Nanook]

Reef Crystals costs more due to higher levels of calcium, magnesium and certain levels of minerals and vitamins. I think it was made to compete with other brands offering a salt mix that had closer to what SPS keepers ran chemistry-wise.

[Jettareefer]

Me D Smack what mag test kit are you using ?

[Volcano1]

Thanks Dave,
I've always used it thinking it had some more trace elements.I can usually find it on sale cheaper than IO, not on sale. Didn't know if it was worth the extra $$. I don't supplement much, other than keeping ALK, CAL, and MAG stable.

[Allmost]

Kent was peddling unnecessary products long before Zeo came about. They used to have a whole line of trace elements you buy in large quantities, there is no telling how many people polluted their tanks over the years thinking they were doing something good. Brightwell is his son in law and carried the tradition forward. Take a look at all of the various additives Brightwell is peddling and then tell me it is needed, not just the Neo ones, but the entire line. I would allmost guarantee you that they did not actually make a copy of the Zeo products but did copy the name. I have real doubts that they reverse engineered the Zeo products but did find a way to cash in on the name game.

I take it back, there is one useful Kent product, their scrapers are pretty good. :dance:

well I see where you are coming from with the trace elements thing. I could agree to some extend, but not fully.

you have to realize this ... one way of reef keeping and adding the lost trace elements is water changes. another way, is to add the lost trace elements ... if used correctly, it is a good to have !

but I agree that its wrong to just done what ever trace element for no reason ...

anyways ... gotta keep an open mind ... there are other ways too.

[Allmost]

The only think Zeo did was convince people to remove nutrients to the point that they would have to add some back

if you dont know the science behind something, you shouldnt assume its wrong ...

think about this "if you remove most nutrients, and add what YOU want, maybe it would give you 'full' control of the environment you are trying to make, maybe you would be able to control the environment more to make animals you try to keep happy ?"

does that make any sense ?

[jda]

I see alot of folks like IO, instead of RC.Is there a big reason?

Most people have to doctor the RC up a bit anyway... not all. IO typically always needs doctoring, so if you have to do it anyway, just save the $$ on the mix.

I used to mix 50/50 IO and Oceanic salt for a nearly perfect batch for me. I don't see any Oceanic salt around here anymore, so I just use IO and add in some calcium and magnesium.

[rtparty]

Favorite: ESV. Clear cut favorite for me. Worth every dollar.


Second favorite: D & D H2Ocean. Too expensive for how little a bucket actually produces.

Least favorite: Reef Crystals. Will never use it again. Fought cyano in three separate systems for over a year. Hate the stuff.

[Jettareefer]

I just want to order ESV and be done with it , Fridays Pay day :)!!

[rtparty]

I just want to order ESV and be done with it , Fridays Pay day :)!!

You'll be happy you did. The first time mixing is a learning curve bit super easy after.

I'm done in less than 15 minutes or so with a whole water change. The salt mixes super clean and is ready to go after mixing for a few minutes.

[Dapg8gt]

You'll be happy you did. The first time mixing is a learning curve bit super easy after.

I'm done in less than 15 minutes or so with a whole water change. The salt mixes super clean and is ready to go after mixing for a few minutes.

What are the numbers on the esv? I would like to try it since it's so fast to mix all I need on hand is fresh water that I already have =).

[rtparty]

What are the numbers on the esv? I would like to try it since it's so fast to mix all I need on hand is fresh water that I already have =).

Going off what I remember

Alk 9ish
Cal 430ish
Mag 1350ish

I checked it every time I mixed it up for the first few months but haven't checked since. I've been using it for almost 3 years now.

[Mr D smack]

Me D Smack what mag test kit are you using ?

Salifert

[Dapg8gt]

Going off what I remember

Alk 9ish
Cal 430ish
Mag 1350ish

I checked it every time I mixed it up for the first few months but haven't checked since. I've been using it for almost 3 years now.
Thanks those seem ideal for what I want. I'm gonna give it a try just for not having to have mixed water on hand. I can have my fresh topped off at all times and be good..

[biocube101]

Ive been using reef crystals since I set my tank up and I have no complaints! It mixes well. I bought the big box that comes with 4 bags which was nice because I dont use alot at one time so the rest can stay sealed.

[jcarbone61]

I was using Red Sea Pro but it kept my Alk at 12.3 so back to TM or SC

[TheReefKeeper]

IO years Tropic for years ESV not long now on Coral pro I like it I'm staying wih this for a bit

[Rob in Puyallup]

Kent Reef Salt.

[Acronic]

Ive used IO for years, only complaint was having to pull the alk line for a day every WC.

Now I use Fritz salt. The alk mixes to 8 dkh, wich is still a smidge high for me but I could care less so long as i dont have to fiddle with my doser anymore. It mixes quickly for me, once its clear it goes in. My sps seem to like it too.

[trueblackpercula]

This may or may not help

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1317416&highlight=awt+testing

[jackson6745]

Coralife for the last 10 years.

[evo187]

Read Sea Coral Pro. My tank is still very young and SPS hasn't started sucking tons of nutrients yet. RSCP I don't have to dose anything extra, just weekly water changes

[Peter Eichler]

if you dont know the science behind something, you shouldnt assume its wrong ...

think about this "if you remove most nutrients, and add what YOU want, maybe it would give you 'full' control of the environment you are trying to make, maybe you would be able to control the environment more to make animals you try to keep happy ?"

does that make any sense ?

I understand the science behind it, I just choose to get low nutrient levels without carbon dosing.

Keeping a stunning and perfectly happy reef without a bunch of superfluous products is what makes sense to me.

Anyways, on with the salt thread...

[Allmost]

I understand the science behind it, I just choose to get low nutrient levels without carbon dosing.


thanks :)

I dont judge different methods, they are all great in their own way. what counts is getting to the final result :) and I am glad that you understand and respect my and many others method now as well.

PS. seems like you employ another method, to lower nutrients to a point where corals look good, and then feed the tank ... and not have algae ISsues :) so at heart, both methods are very similar.

[sirreal63]

Allmost, this may be a good example of what I was talking about with the endless variety of unnecessary products from Kent and others. I found this while browsing and the surprising thing is this isn't even all of the bottled nonsense they offered.

http://packedhead.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/lfs.jpg

[Allmost]

lol wow yes, those I can not disagree with :)
specially the foods !

I am guilty of having tried them ... [all :(]

[Jopalmighty]

I use coral pro. I've been planing on changing to io reef crystals to save a little money over time but I'm too scared to switch. Maybe next batch I'll pull the trigger. I do have the brown residue in my mixing container that people talk about and I am hoping to get rid of that with io.

[Lubeck]

Salinity here. If I wasn't lazy I would stick with esv

[albano]

I do have the brown residue in my mixing container that people talk about and I am hoping to get rid of that with io.

I don't think the switch will help! I believe that IO and RC both leave the residue

[psykobowler]

I found only reef crystals leave the residue. I use a bag of each weekly.

[Feelingsalty33]

Tropic marin

[Nanook]

I don't think the switch will help! I believe that IO and RC both leave the residue

No, IO doesn't leave the residue that RC does. Our LFS was out of 200g boxes of IO a couple years ago, so I mixed up 225g in my tall clear-white water holder and it's been dis colored ever since . I've used IO for 14 years and never got the dark residue that RC leaves behind.

[Ty1e]

Reefers best salt for me.

[Ty1e]

Aquavitro salinity leaves crazy amounts of white residue, can't even get it off the maxi jet pump or buckets.

[SeasonedReefer]

My LFS used to carry Tropic Marin and within the last year or so moved over to Reef crystals. (Changed distributors would be my guess) IMO Reef crystals is complete garbage! My first 200 gal box I purchased would not mix for s***. It left white particulates on the top of the water and on the sides of the bucket, not to mention it had this scuzzy looking brown foam on top of the water. It just would not mix! I literally let my water sit In my brute mixing can for over a week @ 76 degrees with a mag drive 7 circulating the water and the particulates would not dissolve! It almost looked like pvc shavings thats how big these particles were! Now, I've been reef keeping for quite sometime. I clearly know what I'm doing here and honestly I think Reef crystals clearly has a problem. I've talked to several other reefers in the area that had the same issues. Bad batch? Maybe? But regardless this product should have never left the facility. I refuse to use RC and now order my salt online. I hate to do that to my LFS but he says he can no longer get Tropic Marin. One last thing I wanted to mention about Reef crystals is it drys your hands out. I know this sounds silly, but after mixing my salt my hands are so dry it's not even funny. I know it's not scientific and sounds silly but with Tropic Marin if you mix by hand your hands feel nice and smooth. Almost rejuvenated. Crazy I know but..... If it make my hands feel like that how abrasive is this crap on my fish and corals? I'm not a scientist or marine biologist but its just a thought.

[rogerwilco357]

I get that soft hands feel from my reef crystals . I tried a lot of the fancy stuff and came back to IO's RC. The Red Sea Pro didn't work out for me mainly because of the alk issues and how high they where at 15dkh..thought it was a bad batch but they sent me another one after mixing it and putting it in the brute it yielded the same results ..

[jdamon]

Anybody using Red Sea regular? They seem to have given that one a facelift recently, as it has the lower alk and calcium that is favored here in the SPS forum.

[Allmost]

Ive used IO for years, only complaint was having to pull the alk line for a day every WC.

Now I use Fritz salt. The alk mixes to 8 dkh, wich is still a smidge high for me but I could care less so long as i dont have to fiddle with my doser anymore. It mixes quickly for me, once its clear it goes in. My sps seem to like it too.

Fritz ? never seen them locally, where do u buy it if you dont mind me asking.

Id be okay with KH of 8 !

[tmc1313]

Regular Instant Ocean for me. I just add some mag and calcium to it.

[Jfannin]

Jfannin:IO and RC leaves a very bad brown residue on everything in the mixing containers. Ill never use it again because i believe the brown crap ends up in the DT as well. Ive had issues in the past from this.

ESV does come with each part of the mix in separate containers. 2 of witch are in powered form bagged up. the other 2 parts come in liquid form in 1 gallon containers. The mixing is easy and is a nice and clean result. Can say it worth the cost but its better then IO or RC

Im going to be trying Kent Reef as soon as it come in. i actually just ordered it earlier today. I will be depending on WC for my dosing and as a major part of my filtering / export. So we'll see.


Let me know how the kent reef work out whenever you get around to trying it out.[/QUOTE]


Sorry for not responding back sooner. I actually forgot to fallow the thread. I havent used the Kent yet, but it did come in a few days ago. I should be mixing it up after this weekend and ill be sure to post how well it mixes. Of course ill post the numbers once its mixed. I wont able to post actual effects on corals just because because their are to many new things that will be happening with my tank all at once that will play a major role in the corals, such as all new lighting ect.... But the mixing results will for sure be posted.

I always mix the same way. Someone posted that adding a lot of salt to a little bit of water is bad. Yes its not good and not the best way to mix salt. It can actually cause perspiration and this can cause calcium to drop out of solution as the water becomes saturated locally. Long story short, this is how you end up with a Calcium Carbonate issue. A decent read that relates to this can be can here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/

I have 2 40g brute containers that i use and they are connected to my 7 Stage RODI unit. I use one for FW and the other for SW. twice a year both get used for SW. I my self always and recommend very slowly your salt mix to the water and slower is better. I always have a pump running and water temp at about 76 degrees for my temp. An increased temp increases perspiration plus my system happens to run at 76 degrees. I tend to do this Fri night after work and then do my WC Saturday. My point is dont ever just dump a hole bag of salt to small amount of water.

[fishguy597]

I use oceanic . I use to go back and forth with tm until they had some bad batches with high alk. plus the last few times I used it there was a white film on top that I would have to strain out. For the money tm is I expect it to be perfect every time ,doubt ill use it again.
I like the oceanic since it mixes nice and clear with in 10 min. Only downfall is its a little low on the mag. other than that I like it.

[jayjerk]

tropi marin bioactive

[Dolmo5000]

I use Red Sea regular. Love the stuff. Keep my Alk at 7 and never have to worry about spikes. Mixes nice and clear, and quickly. That residue doesn't bother me. For sps tanks focused on color, it's a very good choice.

[jdamon]

I use Red Sea regular. Love the stuff. Keep my Alk at 7 and never have to worry about spikes. Mixes nice and clear, and quickly. That residue doesn't bother me. For sps tanks focused on color, it's a very good choice.

Great! I have a "commercial pack" 200 gal bag that I ordered through the LFS for 54 bucks or something, pretty good deal! I don't need any more buckets... And that increases the price quite a bit.

[jasony816]

What is the alk for IO, RC, and Red Sea regular? Where do you buy Red Sea regular, I cant seem to find it anywhere.

[jdamon]

What is the alk for IO, RC, and Red Sea regular? Where do you buy Red Sea regular, I cant seem to find it anywhere.

They have it at "that fish place", but they only have the 175 gal bucket, and it's pretty much the same price as the coral pro. I got mine through the LFS, they ordered it for me, and he was able to get the 200gal bag for about 55 bucks, 10 cheaper than 175 bucket, and 25 more gal of salt. Red Sea states that at 33.5 ppt salinity, alk is 7.3-7.5 dKH, cal is 390-410, and mag is 1170-1230mg/L. Check out Red Sea website or that pet place, and you will see the write up about the new formula etc.

[jdamon]

You can find the stats for the other salt brands in the reef chemistry forum, there is a sticky at the top of the page

[Quintis]

I use ESV and am very happy with it.

[ERIKATHORNBURG]

I use Red Sea pro.

[Mr D smack]

That's the great thing about IO, it consistently tests. If you mix to 35ppt, you should see 1100-1200-ish. Let us know.

I just tested a new bag from my 200 gallon box. Magnesium is 1290 per salifert at 35ppm.

[redwingrob40]

Been using Red sea coral pro since I started my tank. After seeing all the folks that use instant ocean, may have to give it a try especially since it would be a definite money savings...

[Jettareefer]

I just got regular instant ocean in bags and it came out fairly well except for the Alk.
Sal: 102.5
Ph: 8.4
Alk: 12 pretty high!
Mag: 1350
Cal: 420

[Jettareefer]

Back from the dead with 5 more years several different sps tanks. Now just here to spread old timer wisdom since this topic seems to be forever relevant. I started this thread after almost 13 in the hobby, but still naive and unwilling to believe in simplicity. It wasn’t until I made reef tanks my profession my life’s work installing and servicing custom tanks (higher end). Most of my tanks full on Sps tanks I only do work I enjoy it’s honestly not about the money. The longer I was doing it I questioned why I made things complicated for myself and my clients with all bacteria/nutrient removal and all the gadgets that made the balancing act a PITA. My method/approach changed over he course of the first two years as I started striped pretty much all my clients tanks of anything that wasn’t considered essential ex. Skimmer truly is your life line. Long story short I got to a point where in terms setup very simple and uniform. This made my life so much easier and I can enjoy days working hard instead monkeying with reactor’s and explaining complicated dosing instructions 😂. Today 18 years invested in the reef trade I’ve been in it since it was necessary to run chillers, crank the a/c up just to have the halides (radiums/xm 10ks/Reeflux 12’s) with
Parabolic reflector or lumenarcs/lumens and as many damn UVL VHO actinic’s you could get to fit over your aquarium 😂😂. Beckett skimmers and etss reef devils with giant Danner pumps. Literally for the most part ORA was the only legit source for true “collector” corals/sps circa the time period/tyree and PC came later (sunnyx!)

JBNY was the man!

I ended up with my current recipe over evolution and maturing as a person. I’ll try my best just outline it.

-strong lighting- 4 options I offer (reefbrite xhos 2Xblues/1x50/50 on inline dimmers, ATI sunpower, AI hydra HD’s, and Aquaticlife hybrid w/AI’s)

-Mandatory equipment- Decent sized trigger Systems sump (depends on space/net volume)I do utilize Refugiums clients like them, a reliable ol cone skimmer rated at least 3-5x volume (reef octopus classic), and lastly Sicce syncra return not to strong just enough to be efficient it doesn’t yeild any benifits push tons of water thru your sump and make salt creep mess/special circumstances like bedrooms/offices I use reef octopus’s varios DC line had decent success thus far with them.

Hard plumbing- w/ ball or gate valves, and also schedule 80 unions (reason being accordion hose are prone to leaking it’s just the lazy mans way making easy IMO soft hose just look like crap! No offense) Having more control along with I feel strongly it dampens noise and the overall function for the you servicing the aquarium, utilizing space effectively vs hoses in your way the simple fact you can take apart resemble if you need to /and making maintenance a walk in the park. If done correctly and meticulously will last forever and be reliable most of all!

Heater controller-(must have heaters are proven to be the #1 catastrophic failure point)- Apex/Inkbird both have my trust. Here’s my sales pitch the inkbird seriously $36 on Amazon it’s pocket change compared to your livestock.Apex’s aren’t bad it overly complicates things if it a problem I have fix it! For the clients who can’t help checking things or travel fine, but otherwise I’m not selling one it more trouble then it’s worth.

Heaters- they all stink lol, if at all possible I don’t run one. Most of the time you have to after going titanium option with lackluster results (like I tried a JBJ try temp it nuked a tank coralwise and most of fish died (90 degrees!) at 4 month after being installed, I tried aquatop I like them in terms of performance, but don’t trust them period secondary controllers (aka redundancy common theme with me). Ebo Jager I hate glass it the best viable option I’ve been using them again.. I trust them on personal tanks controlled via the apex (I do replace them every once in a while since they get moisture trapped inside)

Flow(inside display)- i have write a novel sorry related to the topic. I honestly at this point have had it with the QC (in 18’ it was epically awful missing power supplies in sealed boxes and such) of maxspect/ecotech with my own gyres/vortechs (the past wetside Magnet/shaft issue that killed tanks) it’s scary for me. The motor died on my newest gyre within warranty (a year) they refused to replace it same happened with clients I had to pay for that. Leads me to this I’ve owned and used all of them, price to actual performance jebao’s have won my business even roughly 10 years ago when you had to convert the voltage 🙄. It is a hard sale since they’re knock off chinese units, unfortunately I still have to do business with the big guys gyres are great for flat uniform linear flow. My opinion not to start drama. To the point of this topic is actually this lots of very random strong flow yet gentle indirect coral contact you effectively try to create something based on natural reefs and get the polyps dancing hitting coral directly hard is really isn’t the point if they lose tissue or literally grow with the flow to direct.You can have a ton of flow if no effectively directed it’s almost like have an invisible wall dead heading. Keep in mind the random and uniform patterns alternating will yeild the best results most natural growth structure. Once my one of the gyres went I put the smallest jebao pp model on 100% close duration wave mode W1 it has a high flow rate not equivalent it’s been amazing couldn’t be more satisfied with the result as an example I still employ one gyre on the opposite end.. Some of my sps my Walt Disney, PC Superman, WWC heartbreaker are a just a few that almost instantly showed improvement and where stimulated producing faster growth and intense PE.

Live rock/sand- I normally try to keep established LR OLD SCHOOL Fiji great surface area probably the most efficient LR in of biological filtration, Haitian (flat), pulkani, Tonga branches if I can source, and real reef branches (looks and dimension cool coral placement not for any biological purposes). I run typically try to minimalize overall amount in display to allow open environments and for coral growth, I try my best to maximize LR in cryptic zones in sumps. I exclusively either run BB or Agralive reef sand (heavy course sand) it’s great and completely fake! I’ve used it forever I’ve noticed it buffers the water well in terms of trace elements and it helps. It vacuums nicely you can get all the detritus to separate in the hydro tube without wasting sand!

Water chemistry- This is something we all have been victims to.. chasing numbers (nutrients in particular). I have OCD yeah I had a major issue it led to nonsense with bacteria/reactors and lackluster coral color and vitality I think a wave where ULNS where the only way. Let’s close that chapter I’m hear to tell you nutrients are really your friends. I really let go I don’t really think it’s worth while I don’t test period use the corals as a guide. My sps tank at home last I checked no3 was 20-25ppm/Po4 .19-.24 Hanna 736. Now the big 5 Salinity, Alk, Cal, Mag, K I do periodically test k/salinity after a while it’s stable and you get a hang for it. ALK, Cal, Mag test them regularly Alk 2x minna week/the other 2 once a week find your dosage and eventually with some hard work you’ll find a sweet spot. I use balling method on every I service using BRS BULK PRODUCTS. I do you kalk on low demand system
Via gravity fed float there are benefits with high ph. Do annual Triton test it’s definitely worth it!

Salt mix- it’s all hype for the last 2.5 years I’ve used plain regular instant ocean/used reef crystals before I don’t bother buffering it at all. I find no need to spend more because in the end a salt mix doesn’t make your tank great hold that thought and save it don’t buy into jargon. It’s been an amazing testament to keeping things stable and simple. 5-15% weekly/bi-weekly is my preferred.

Fish/feeding- I run large bio loads with the proper foundation you’ll have nothing to
Worry about and it will help your corals thrive. Feeding it’s important to feed a variety of different thing feed quality/clean food LRS reef frenzy or diy from the store is great/bulk seaweed/ San Fransico bay omega/surpilinia brine. I just mix it up nothing fancy. I feed heavy happy fish/happy corals!

My current planet rimless had all the fancy bs. It was started as zeovit driven system zeolite reactor/all additives(vinegar basically makes up 90% products)/amino’s, gfo/Phosban 150, trigger 30” elite with Refugium invested in a AI prime to light it, reef octopus 202s cone, apex, 2x reefbrite xho blues on 6x39w ATI sunpower, gyre 230’s,

Today I’ve stripped it of everything that wasn’t necessary now it’s on the same
Platform as my service tanks. It’s basically the skimmer, sump with lr, removed light and macro from refug, Sicce return, heater/controller(apex), no mechanical filteration, heavy flow with jebao/gyre 230, ati sun power now with sb reef bar bc they’re 100 time better color wise, and instant ocean with balling method. I recently nearly let all die with an AlK spike, along with a few other pretty bad things and black bugs killed so much during a rough patch. I’m in the process of overhauling it in 5 stages which included treating the bugs 8x red bug dosage of interceptor at 24 hour exposure period two treatments two weeks a
Part. First 3x treatment helped but they came back fiercely and removal dead and unwanted stuff which I’ve completed. On stage 3 currently aiptasia removal I basically turned my back after a bad car accident life had me down for a good 6 months it was really hard on my acro collection. 4 is removing all coral from the rocks/placing the coral on rack in display, 5 is the new minimalistic aquascape to let all my stuff grow out and get large. It’s rough right now I’m excited to build something Unique. I wish I had been able to do better this is it as it sits. If ou have questions please ask I’m more then willing to help.

[Jettareefer]

<a href="https://ibb.co/yQ1M05N"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/KrkQ675/04431-ED7-AE9-A-41-DF-8-F00-5752-BEB5484-E.jpg" alt="04431-ED7-AE9-A-41-DF-8-F00-5752-BEB5484-E" border="0" /></a>
SB bar actinic only

<a href="https://ibb.co/kM5hjPc"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/HXBr69g/148442-BD-1714-4-A0-E-B139-44-B0-C874912-E.jpg" alt="148442-BD-1714-4-A0-E-B139-44-B0-C874912-E" border="0"></a>
SB with blue plus x2
<a href="https://ibb.co/xsQ6wMm"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/W31f7cD/78880-E61-B033-45-A5-8-EF3-F42-DD71188-DF.jpg" alt="78880-E61-B033-45-A5-8-EF3-F42-DD71188-DF" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>image free upload</a><br />
All 6x39w t5’s on with led bar

[Jettareefer]

All pictures are current post Alk spike which happened a few months ago (15dkh is where I topped out I shoot for 7.5-8.5 this is why you test and measure). Life can be rough at times, but it was really the turning point right after the spike the bugs were able to destroy some stuff quickly some acro’s died in literal days. Black bug nuclear warfare completed 7x-8x red bug dosage with 24 hours+ exposure time of interceptor two weeks ago/first round of clean dead coral removal I finished the past week. The scary part is happening soon lol. It’s simplistic setup and decent equipment, but nothing extra orat all fancy and no3/Po4 probably scary to what most consider acceptable. Why change anything thing growth/color are good( it’s not the ocean... closed systems are a different mix) and never had algae issues. I preach you should spend time enjoying you tank instead of micro managing numbers being frustrated spending good money for a result in end a lot the time doesn’t yeild your desired results. Truly that’s the brass tax. Think about it you could buy coral/new skimmer/lights and kick back relax! The very principle is I used to be the person who lived in fear my Hanna meter I’m the OP of this thread 4-5 years ago. Why spend $95-100 on a bucket of salt I can get IO nearly half of that 200 gallon box or worst case petco has it. Salt is salt IO is proven industry wide really if Jason fox, Big E, me the crazy bored guy and bunch others use it and speak the redundancy/simplistically method. If someone would’ve told me this and thoroughly explained it I would’ve had more fun and success while saving money. Not trolling just paying it forward.

Most of my acro’swould look a lot better the bugs/interceptor and all problems beforehand there’s a long road for most of ones that were infested at one point.

[dieselkeeper]

Thanks for sharing on how you're keeping reefkeeping simple. I've done it this way for years also. Also using Reef Crystals salt.