View Full Version : I dont get it... ICH
Joe0813
01/15/2014, 05:36 PM
I have 5 fish in my 180... 2 clowns, 2 lyretail anthias and a carpenters wrasse. I have been noticing they have been rubbing against my overflows a little bit so im assuming i have ich. I have not seen any visible white dots on the fish.
Heres the part i dont get... i called BRS asking when they would have the aqua medic fish trap in and he told me know clue usually we get orders in the middle of the month blah blah blah.... he asked why i needed and i told him i think i got ich. Now he tells me that my tank will always have ich no matter what you do. i dont get it. people tell me this all the time. Two local fish stores and BRS has said that even if you QT a fish, treat them they could still get ich.
So is catching these fish just a waste of time? will my fish always just have ich? thats like saying ill always have a cold in my body and when i get stressed out ill get sick. i know this is like :deadhorse1: but im just confused.
plowro8
01/15/2014, 05:40 PM
The fish need to be treated in a QT and your tank needs to remain without fish for about 10 weeks. Then your fish will be without ich and your tank will be free of ich, due to the fact that there will be no host for it (the ich) to feed on.
FLSteve
01/15/2014, 05:54 PM
If you haven't already I recommend reading this thoroughly. If you have, re read it
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626
snorvich
01/15/2014, 07:59 PM
Tanks do NOT have to have ich. Develop a quarantine protocol and you can easily avoid the problem. If you wish to see an example, check my blog.
Joe0813
01/15/2014, 08:14 PM
i did QT for 9 weeks... saw no indications that there was ich. no itching no white dots nothing... so i put them in the display. i did buy a few snails a couple weeks ago. i think the snails passed it on. gaaah. i caught the two clowns. but the anthias and wrasse are just to smart and fast. net- fail.. bottle trap- fail.. catch while sleeping- fail.. mirror- fail . i cant drain the tank its 180 gallons i wont have the room to put the water.
I agree that tanks do not have to have ich but why does it seem everyone else keeps telling me that a fish always will have ich.
GroktheCube
01/15/2014, 08:25 PM
People tend to think that because ich can exist asymptomatically in a tank for a long period of time.
TBH, I usually don't QT corals or inverts from trusted sources, but there's always a chance that one of them has ich. People may see ich pop up months after it was cured because of an invert that was introduced during their fallow period, and assume that ich is impossible to avoid.
If you feel adventurous, you could drain the tank and take it as a chance to re-scape, assuming you can't catch the stragglers with the tank full.
Joe0813
01/15/2014, 09:07 PM
i cant drain the tank.... i have no storage for over 180 gallons of water and to refill the tank and redo my rock work would take way to long. i wouldnt have time to keep all the rock and coral wet while it was out of the tank
E Rosewater
01/15/2014, 09:42 PM
You have 2 options, and possibly a third.
Manage the ich in the tank. Keep the fish healthy and not stressed and take your chances. You may last years you may last months, just know that at some point a stress event could lower your fishes defenses, the ich will take hold, reproduce uncontrollably and wipe out your fish.
Remove your fish, QT and treat with copper, hypo, tank transfer or Chloroquine Phosphate. Leave your display fallow for 10 - 12 weeks.
The third and least desirable, remove all inverts and corals to QT, and treat the tank with chloroquine phosphate. Leave the coral and inverts in QT for 10 - 12 weeks. Making sure to do a lot of water changes before reintroducing corals and inverts.
There are currently several threads on doing the above with copper. Most will suggest against this. Rock and substrates can adsorb copper, this can lower concentrations to the point of making them completely ineffective. It will also release the copper back into the tank for an indefinite period of time making it inhospitable to inverts and coral.
Joe0813
01/15/2014, 10:13 PM
no offense to the people that chose option three but why would you do that? now you have to basically start from scratch if you want coral and inverts.....
i bought the aqua medic fish trap and some cupramine from online.. im going to try and trap the 2 anthias and wrasse... clowns eat out of my hand so they were really easy.
Little nervous using the copper treatment since ive never used it and i dont want to kill anything :/
slgcmg
01/15/2014, 11:29 PM
Pretty sure my tank has ich but my fish are great. They are pigs.
E Rosewater
01/16/2014, 06:39 AM
Read the stickies through a couple times, take your time, and test for copper levels.
Joe0813
01/16/2014, 06:47 AM
i dont see a sticky for copper treatment.... i see the tank transfer and hypo
julie180
01/18/2014, 07:46 AM
I caught a hex wrasse with a very small hook on fishing line. Just cut the barb off the hook.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 07:51 AM
what if they swallow it?
drdavethedude
01/18/2014, 09:33 AM
"I have 5 fish in my 180... 2 clowns, 2 lyretail anthias and a carpenters wrasse. I have been noticing they have been rubbing against my overflows a little bit so im assuming i have ich. I have not seen any visible white dots on the fish. "
If I'm understanding this correctly, you're not really sure you have ICH, you only suspect so because of the scratching...but what if it's not ICH, and catching the fish is a big,harmful waste of time? I would definitely want some definitive evidence before going through the massive hassle of taking apart a 180 to catch the fish...just sayin'!:rolleyes:
Palting
01/18/2014, 09:57 AM
i dont see a sticky for copper treatment.... i see the tank transfer and hypo
Then do tank transfer or hypo. I do hyposalinity exclusively, so that's actually what I recommend. Read up on all 3, and choose one. If you insist on cupramine, then follow the instructions that come with it, and also additionally get a copper kit and check levels.
what if they swallow it?
Then they die, same way I would die if I get hit by lightning. C'mon man. People are trying to help you here.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 10:12 AM
Then they die, same way I would die if I get hit by lightning. C'mon man. People are trying to help you here.[/QUOTE]
I know people are trying to help which is why I asked what happens if they swallow a hook since it does happen.
I saw a few white dots on my anthias .
hkgar
01/18/2014, 12:29 PM
I had Ich in my 180 and lost most of my fish to it. Since I couldn't catch the fish to move them to QT, I moved the corals and inverts to a separate tank and then did Hypo in the DT. Doing Hypo in a large tank is difficult because of the amount of water that needs to be changed to get the salinity down and than back up.
I now QT every new fish for 8 weeks and prophylacticly treat with Cupramine.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 12:37 PM
Im going to keep trying to catch them... i have that aqua medic trap coming in on monday. i havent fed the tank in 2 days so ill hold off until monday to feed. and when i do ill put brine shrimp inside the trap and see how that works.
phillrodrigo
01/18/2014, 01:13 PM
I would keep feeding them. Feeding boost there immune system and just makes them healthier. Copper is also not good for the fish so if they go with a even more weekend system than may not make it. Did you gtab a copper test also. Its a fine line between killing ich and killing the fish. The best is also not to freak out. Ive had it the first time I freaked out that time lost 3 fish. The second time I just let it run its course and everyone survived. I just got in a fish from blue.zoo that has ich no one else is showing signs. The new fish is eating like a pig so not worried about it.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 02:13 PM
ya but i dont really want to just live with ich. i did get a copper test kit with the cupramine... but i might switch to doing hypo. it might be safer for the first time ive ever needed to treat fish with ich
Palting
01/18/2014, 04:02 PM
ya but i dont really want to just live with ich. i did get a copper test kit with the cupramine... but i might switch to doing hypo. it might be safer for the first time ive ever needed to treat fish with ich
Don't know which of the 3 confirmed Ich treatments are safer, but I do hyposalinity almost exclusively and have had good experience with it.
Here is a blow by blow account of how I treated 11 fish in a 110 gallon QT. Blow by blow to include mistakes, warts and all. Hope it helps: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1892446
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 04:06 PM
thanks im going to give that a read tonight when i get home from work.
fishroomlady
01/18/2014, 04:16 PM
PLEASE slow down and stop and give this careful thought. As someone said before, you're not 100% sure you even have ich and chasing the fish around to remove them to QT is causing them stress. You quarantined these fish and saw no signs of the disease so keep them fed, stop stressing them, and do some further reading on the topic.
I have stressed before upon seeing what looked like ich, so I understand that you feel you must do something.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 04:39 PM
my anthias had white spots on them... and all my fish are scratching against my overflows and the glass... it had to have came in one of the snails that i got. but they have never scratched or anything until then.
and im not chasing the fish around, i have a trap in there. they are to fast and smart for the net.
fishroomlady
01/18/2014, 04:46 PM
but you're still going to up and move them to another tank which is stressful. I'm just saying to give it more time to make a definite ID. Sometimes fish can have spots/pigment changes from stress that turns out to be nothing.
flixxx
01/18/2014, 04:52 PM
Hey man, I'm a guy who just started in this hobby and was lucky/unlucky enough to get ICH on my first fish. I say lucky because I've only just started and the damage is minimal, this has lead me to down a path of eliminating ICH as my task for good.
Moving forward its assumed all my fish will have a parasite and will be treated in a QT prior to introducing them to the DT. A 40 day quarantine with alprazo and CP should suffice based on what I've been reading.
I strongly recommend you read this thread, it's long but well worth the read http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214
Good luck, I'm still in my fallow period, no new fish can go in my tank until March 5th... it's marked on my calendar.
Joe0813
01/18/2014, 06:27 PM
but you're still going to up and move them to another tank which is stressful. I'm just saying to give it more time to make a definite ID. Sometimes fish can have spots/pigment changes from stress that turns out to be nothing.
but then again theres sometimes that the white spots wont show back up because the fish are healthy.... they are all scratching near the gills on my overflows.
zalmaxiss
01/18/2014, 09:33 PM
I am going through this now. I had a tough time catching my firefish and blenny, which were also too smart for the bottle trap. What I did was partition a third of my tank, chased the fish over to that side and "trapped" the fish in that third of the tank with a piece of acrylic. I did have to remove the rock. I know not everyone can do this because some create a wall while aquascaping. I have towers so it made it easier.
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