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Art13
01/16/2014, 07:01 AM
I'm trying to get my list together for my next tank setup, and i want a turbulent flow, back and forth so the coral gets different directions of flow. sps at the top, lps and some soft at the middle and bottom. I plan on doing minimal aquascaping. If someone has a suggestion on another brand thats fine, i would like all my options here. I was thinking vortech but i also like to keep the view from the side of the tank looking good since its a 24" wide tank. I should probably mention the size too, 135g 48x24x27. I was thinking one mp40 with my two koralia 800gph possibly or two mp40s, or going with two tunze 6095 or 6105s, i would supplement the 6095's with koralia's as the extra where needed. Any advise? Do the just come down to a preference? Any brands i'm not thinking of or different ideas? i haven't used anything but just single speed water circulation pumps at this point, so i'm new to these brands and things. I won't be factoring in the return pump at this point since it will only be to circulate water through the refugium, i won't be getting a high output one to use for flow. My preference would be for the mp40 to put it on the left side where it will be less visible and use two regular pumps on the right and or middle to adjust the flow where needed.

FocusFin
01/16/2014, 07:39 AM
I have a 110 with a 90 gallon footprint and mounted my MP40s on the back of the tank near the top left/right. I too didn't want the sides showing the powerheads.

I have it set to short pulse which creates a front to back wave giving my corals a back and forth motion. I have a 30 inch depth and despite having the powerheads near the top, I still get serious undertow.

I've never used a Tunze so can't comment but the Vortech does everything I could want in a powerhead.

Also, I have mine set at 2/3 speed and it's more than enough so you shouldn't need anything other than two MP40s.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2365&pictureid=59059

mkart
01/16/2014, 07:46 AM
I have a 210 and have an mp40 on each side and Korillas on the back. I would have preferred 2 more mp40s on the back but my tank sits against he wall. I plan on swapping the Korillas out with tunzes soon so they can also be controlled. Korillas are great for the money but the evolution series spins backwards frequently, even with the little knob that is suppose to fix it. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

dkeller_nc
01/16/2014, 07:59 AM
As for Tunze or Vortech, my opinion is that's like the question "do you like dogs or cats?" (i.e., it's a preference).

Here are few differences to consider:

Vortechs have a lower in-tank footprint than almost any other pump, including the Tunzes.

Vortech's can't be directionally aimed; the Tunzes can.

All of the heat from a Tunze goes into the tank water, a good portion of the vortech's does not.

For only one pump, the a Vortech is less expensive, b/c a Tunze requires some sort of 0-10v controller to operate, while the vortech and controller are sold as a package. If you're purchasing multiple pumps, the Tunzes are likely to be cheaper because several of them can be operated off of one controller.

PrangeWay
01/16/2014, 08:04 AM
Also a consideration is how the tank is "presented".
Is it free standing or in wall?

Free standing you go Tunze since you can mount them on the back than just angle them to hit opposite corners and get crazy good flow, while all the wires are out of site from the 3 presentable panes. Whereas the Vortechs looks just hideous with the dry side clogging 2 panes in a free standing tank.

While a in-wall or other framed tank you only see the very small profile of the vortech wet side which makes for a very, very clean looking tank.


PW

Art13
01/16/2014, 08:12 AM
It will be freestanding, though i do like the idea of putting them on the back walls, so i guess it comes down to the preference of how you want it to look then. Anyone have some more examples for me that i can get ideas from on turbulent flow, different mounting options, and possibly some pictures on how it came out? the size pump you are using if its close to a 135g tank will help me as well.

Breadman03
01/16/2014, 08:13 AM
As for Tunze or Vortech, my opinion is that's like the question "do you like dogs or cats?" (i.e., it's a preference).

Here are few differences to consider:

Vortechs have a lower in-tank footprint than almost any other pump, including the Tunzes.

Vortech's can't be directionally aimed; the Tunzes can.

All of the heat from a Tunze goes into the tank water, a good portion of the vortech's does not.

For only one pump, the a Vortech is less expensive, b/c a Tunze requires some sort of 0-10v controller to operate, while the vortech and controller are sold as a package. If you're purchasing multiple pumps, the Tunzes are likely to be cheaper because several of them can be operated off of one controller.

This is why I purchased an MP-40 initially. Now that I have an Apex, I purchased a pair of Tunze 6095's.

Additionally, Vortech pumps tend to make some noise. Some are loud, but most are pretty quiet. Tunze pumps are silent. My MP-40 was really only noticeable when running nutrient transport mode because it rapidly cycles from 0-100%.

Tunze v. Vortech == Camaro v. Mustang. Neither is the better vehicle, they just have slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Art13
01/16/2014, 08:26 AM
I miss my mustang, so i guess it comes down to, which pump is the mustang? lol.

ca1ore
01/16/2014, 08:39 AM
The lower in-tank profile of the vortech pumps carries the day for me as I HATE cluttering the inside of my tank with equipment. Lack of directionality can be a bit of a pain, but building that limitation into your aquascape design is pretty simple.

One other thing to consider is noise. Having the vortech motor on the outside of the tank means it will be nosier, particularly the MP60 which is fan cooled. The MP10 and MP40 are relatively quiet, but the MP60 is not. Takes a bit of getting used to.

Art13
01/16/2014, 08:44 AM
If i went with vortech's they would be on the back panel of the tank, one on each side, would this flow be ok? Also, if i went with tunze, would two 6095's be ok or should i go with 6105's or something else?

solitude127
01/16/2014, 11:41 AM
Another difference is a cord into the tank. If you have Eurobracing, you'll have to plan ahead and put more holes in the bracing to accommodate cords into the tank

MondoBongo
01/16/2014, 11:45 AM
If i went with vortech's they would be on the back panel of the tank, one on each side, would this flow be ok? Also, if i went with tunze, would two 6095's be ok or should i go with 6105's or something else?

a lot of that will likely depend on your rock structure, but two mp40s should be more than enough given your tank dimensions.

i have one mp40 on my 75 gallon, which is the standard 4ft length, and i get good flow on the opposite side from the vortech. the flow they put out is weird to describe, but it sort of forms a wide cone with 3 focal points if that makes sense. so you get wide diffuse flow across the whole "cone" area, but stronger flow in a few key places.

i can't speak for the tunze's because i've never owned one, but i bet two on the back wall, mounted about mid way up would do well.

if all else fails, maybe moving one of them to a side would probably fix any issues with the correct rock structure.

James77
01/16/2014, 01:39 PM
If i went with vortech's they would be on the back panel of the tank, one on each side, would this flow be ok? Also, if i went with tunze, would two 6095's be ok or should i go with 6105's or something else?

The 6095s may be pushing it, especially as coral grows in. I have not owned a 6095, so I cannot speak for how they do. But the flow is very wide but short reaching. I use 2 6105's on a similar sized tank(120g 4x2x2) and they do very well. They come with 2 different nozzles, one is wide and gentle, the other narrow and very powerful. I have my 6105s on the back, right in the top corners.

Vortechs are great as well....I just prefer Tunze. Dkeller covered most the pros/cons. One other one is noise. With an external mounted motor, the Vortech does make some noise...but it does not bother 95% of people because other equipment like fans and what not easily drown it out. They are not loud at all, just audible. It is worth considering if you have a dead silent setup, as they will be heard then. Tunzes are dead silent, I cannot hear them unless I am about 1 foot from the tank. I have no other audible noise on my tank as I have no fans, use a siphon overflow, and have a sound deadened stand.

Art13
01/16/2014, 03:37 PM
you don't happen to have a photo of your setup do you james? i was also wondering if its better for them to point straight across the tank or if its ok to have them push towards the front on an angle, or which is better. also, do you alternate back and forth or are they set on random cycles so each one comes on off randomly so say sometimes only one is on, sometimes they are both on. maybe one set on a 5 minute timer and one on a 6 minute timer.

Art13
01/17/2014, 06:33 AM
anyone have any feedback on this last question?

BlindZide
01/17/2014, 06:55 AM
I haven't used either one. I am running a Koralia Wavemaker Controller with 2 12V Koralia 2s. These DO NOT run backwards because they never stop. When the controller switchs pumps the pump that is not active gets its speed reduced and then ramps back up to speed with it switchs back to it. I also have a WP25 and my 355GPH from my return. I have power heads on all 4 top corners of my tank pointed in different directions. Corals move and flow every which way possible.

However want a few MPs though. The smaller footprint and no cord in the tank is a big plus in my opinion. Although the WP25 is rather small, have you considered any of Jebaos products?

Art13
01/17/2014, 07:49 AM
All options are on the table at this point, i listed what i thought were the main two pumps people usually go with. I am open to anything, i currently have two of the koralia 800 or so gph pumps on my 60 gallon, when i initially set up the 135, i will be putting those two in along with a 1500gph koralia at the start, until i get the funds together for the full wave maker deal, and possibly one other pump if thats not enough flow, but if i can use 3 or so 1500 pumps and a wave maker and it works out well, i don't see a reason not to go that route at least in the beginning for a while.

10reefman
01/17/2014, 07:55 AM
jebao wp40

supra400hptt
01/17/2014, 08:22 AM
I've got two MP40s and I say go with 6095s. The more I think about, the more stupid it seems to spend over $900 on two power heads. My 4 x 2 x 2 three side starphire tank cost roughly what I paid for the MP40s. They definitely can move a lot water, but I'm still trying to find the perfect spot for them due to not being able to point them. I have a lot of soft and LPS corals and have to keep the flow from being in the line of sight of anything. They are also louder than any other equipment on my tank. Due to those two things I only run them about 1/4 of what they are capable of. Love the cord not in the tank and the low profile, but I've been considering going with 6095s.

Huskysibe
01/17/2014, 08:38 AM
I love Jebao. I will always have one of those from here on out.

Art13
01/17/2014, 08:44 AM
will two wp25s do the trick with maybe one of the hydors thrown in or possibly three wp25s for a for varied flow or should i just stick with two wp40s if i went with jebao?

Art13
01/17/2014, 08:47 AM
also, as for flow, if i put it on say the setting for reef stream mode, can the amount of flow be adjusted? say between 900 -1500 instead of 900-4000? or is each setting a constant number that can't be increased or decreased with the variable flow settings.

barjam
01/17/2014, 08:50 AM
I have had tunze/vortech. While the tunze aren't exactly silent the vortechs were unreasonable loud.

BlindZide
01/17/2014, 01:26 PM
I think the big question is what would be the best choice for broader flow. The WP pumps move water, a lot of water, but are more narrow on the stream than the MPs.

If you want WPs, I would do a WP40 with a WP25.

JoelA7
01/18/2014, 08:32 AM
Interesting thread.

I've also read that the vortech has a run-in period. That you need to put the little "pad" under the motor portion as well, which some people skip. Supposedly after a few weeks they settle down to nearly inaudible. I live in the city and there's plenty of traffic noise - ambient sound - except in the middle of the night so I'm not worried about this aspect.

Building up a 120, 48 x 24 x 24, set in a corner. W/ a corner overflow and return which could better be described as a side overflow and return. Intent is to have the return pushing right to left at the back, turnover about 4x per hour tops, so not an excessive amount of current there. Then one vortech mp40 on the right front also pushing left and a second on the back left pushing front. Both on random settings, either reef or lagoon, as turns out to be more suitable.

Thoughts?

enzo0000
01/18/2014, 09:33 AM
i was also wondering if its better for them to point straight across the tank or if its ok to have them push towards the front on an angle, or which is better. also, do you alternate back and forth or are they set on random cycles so each one comes on off randomly so say sometimes only one is on, sometimes they are both on. maybe one set on a 5 minute timer and one on a 6 minute timer.

My setup....I have 2 Tunze's with a controller...each of them is pointed at each other from opposite sides of the tank. Both are on all the time (think 50% rate), at intervals of 3 seconds one will switch to 100% for 3 seconds, then shutoff while the other comes on at 100% for 3 seconds...they alternate like this all day which gives the back and forth 'wave' in the tank. Looks nice when your corals and fish flow back and forth..also good for nutrient movement. The Tunze controller also has a sensor that mounts next to your light, when the lights go out or dim for night, the controller stops the 'wave' action and the tunze's flow drops for nighttime.

My tank is a 50g...yours being a 135, i'd look into 3 or 4 depending on your return pump flow. Also, the controller can support upto 4 powerheads.

I have no knowledge of Vortec's other than what i've read.

hope this helps a bit

Z1313
01/18/2014, 11:57 AM
I currently run 2 mp40's on a 180. I am happy with it but am considering getting a Tunze wave box as I am very impressed with the wave you can get and I would still run the mp40s as well. Either way there are trade offs for each but they are both top notch products with awesome support : )

cklayko
01/18/2014, 12:33 PM
anyone have any feedback on this last question? if you go tunze you should look at the sea swirl mount, it will rotate your tunze pumps.

phillrodrigo
01/18/2014, 01:24 PM
It seems that they all have there benefits. I think the only thing vortech has going for it is most of the powerhead is out side the tank which looks awesome. Tunze seem to last forever and are quit.I cant remember a thread on a tunze issue im sure there are some. The jaebos I feel are for the people who dont want to or cant afford a vortech. They get the job done very well but havent had the time to prove them selves good or bad. Ive had my wp25 for a few months no issue. Theres a guy in my club that has a 12 year old tunze. Vortech seem to have to many issues for there price

Bilk
01/18/2014, 01:47 PM
As for Tunze or Vortech, my opinion is that's like the question "do you like dogs or cats?" (i.e., it's a preference).

Here are few differences to consider:

Vortechs have a lower in-tank footprint than almost any other pump, including the Tunzes.

Vortech's can't be directionally aimed; the Tunzes can.

All of the heat from a Tunze goes into the tank water, a good portion of the vortech's does not.

For only one pump, the a Vortech is less expensive, b/c a Tunze requires some sort of 0-10v controller to operate, while the vortech and controller are sold as a package. If you're purchasing multiple pumps, the Tunzes are likely to be cheaper because several of them can be operated off of one controller.

Good post on the differences except for the controller part. It's not necessary unless you desire pulsing or random firing for wave motion. There's a variable speed pot on the cord that allows for flow adjustment. Not sure if all have this but the 6105s I have do.

I have Tunze mounted on Sea Sweeps. They provide lot's of random flow with that configuration. They are more visible in the tank, but they are also quieter than the Vortech in my experience. That said, I might add two Vortech to the system for some wave action. I tried achieving that with the Tunze, but they don't seem as good at that as are the Vortech. I have the controller for the Tunze and it's somewhat limited compared to the Vortech programability. JMO and observations. :)

Art13
01/18/2014, 01:56 PM
I think for budget limiting purposes i'll be going with the jebao i think wp40 and use my two koralia 800's possibly on a wave maker for some variance, and if need be, get a second jabao depending on the movement in the tank. With all the new things we've needed for the house we got about 6 months ago, i'm a little strapped, but at the same time, my wife wants the tank out of our bedroom and rather and move that setup, i want to get the final tank going where it's going to stay, hence the slight urgency and budget cram. Lots of good advice in here, i think down the road since my tank is freestanding, for looks alone, the tunze's seem like a better option for the setup.

BlindZide
01/19/2014, 07:15 AM
Those WP40s are monsters man. I had 2 of them in my 75g and one was too much. Do some searching for them, you may want to back it down to a WP25.

dkeller_nc
01/19/2014, 09:10 AM
Good post on the differences except for the controller part. It's not necessary unless you desire pulsing or random firing for wave motion. There's a variable speed pot on the cord that allows for flow adjustment. Not sure if all have this but the 6105s I have do.


Yeah, I guess I should've been more specific - a controller is required with the Tunzes to get (somewhat) random operation similar to the vortechs.

Bilk
01/19/2014, 10:15 AM
Yeah, I guess I should've been more specific - a controller is required with the Tunzes to get (somewhat) random operation similar to the vortechs.

NP :) Or Sea Sweeps do a really good job, though a bit of a more expensive option than the controller. What I like about the SS are they hit various parts of the tank vs the same spot even if it's a pulsed flow. Seems to keep things suspended a bit better. I have them placed at opposite sides and alternating - while one swings toward the front, the other is swinging toward the back. So far I'm really liking the combination.

wr80
01/20/2014, 11:16 PM
I put a wp-25 in my 29g and had to put it all the way down and it still pumps water like no tomorrow. I think you'll be happy with the WP's. For the money it's hard to beat...

Art13
01/21/2014, 12:52 PM
I just ordered a wp40 to try out, I'll see if I can get a low enough flow with it in my 60 gallon but it will have a lot of area to cover in the 135 gallon so I think the size will be perfect for it, I guess I'll find out sooner or later

Kungpaoshizzle
01/21/2014, 01:56 PM
jebao wp40

^^ This.

Got 2, will never look at tunze's or vortechs again.

Art13
01/28/2014, 08:02 PM
Well, the wp40 came it, managed to use it in w1 mode on the low power setting in my 60 gallon got now, the thing has some power to it, kicks up all the sand in every other setting, but a very nice pump so far.

4bruceinc
01/28/2014, 08:47 PM
I have never owned a Vortech.

My current pumps are Tunze 6095s that are controlled by my Apex. I based my decision on a solid reputation of quality and great customer service.

I doubt if I ever use any pumps other than Tunze. But if I do - the only other choice would be Vortech because of their proven/documented reputation of quality and great customer service.

dh7922
01/28/2014, 11:39 PM
the wp25 are pretty strong pumps, i have one on my 50 Cube and i have to turn it down. if youre choosing between tunze and vortech, i would go with the vortech. i like the fact that theres no cords in your tank.

bfin3
01/30/2014, 12:54 AM
I am on the fence between the two brands also. I would either just get a mp10 or a 6055 for my 50 gallon and I already have an apex so the tunze is the cheaper option. I basically have to decide between noise and a cord in the tank. My tank is extremely quiet so I am leaning towards the tunze. Would the cord from the apex have to go into the tank too making it so there are 2 cords in the tank per tunze powerhead?

dkeller_nc
01/30/2014, 08:55 AM
FYI - despite the reputation that the Vortechs have for making noise, my opinion is that they're very quiet so long as they're not under-sized for the tank and therefore run flat-out. I have two MP10s on a 50 gal, both set to about 50% on "Reef Crest" Mode. I have to get my ear within a couple of feet of the dry side motor to even hear that it's running.

Breadman03
01/31/2014, 04:28 AM
I am on the fence between the two brands also. I would either just get a mp10 or a 6055 for my 50 gallon and I already have an apex so the tunze is the cheaper option. I basically have to decide between noise and a cord in the tank. My tank is extremely quiet so I am leaning towards the tunze. Would the cord from the apex have to go into the tank too making it so there are 2 cords in the tank per tunze powerhead?

There is only 1 wire that runs into the tank. The Apex cable plugs into a port on the Tunze power supply, which looks pretty much like any other DC power supply except for the extra port for the Apex cable.

FYI - despite the reputation that the Vortechs have for making noise, my opinion is that they're very quiet so long as they're not under-sized for the tank and therefore run flat-out. I have two MP10s on a 50 gal, both set to about 50% on "Reef Crest" Mode. I have to get my ear within a couple of feet of the dry side motor to even hear that it's running.

I agree. Right now, I have an MP40 and 2 6095's on my 75 gallon. I've been using the 40 for about a year, but wanted to try the Tunze since I now have an Apex. The 40 produces a slight whir and that's about it. I have kids and the sound really isn't noticeable.

tom obrecht
01/31/2014, 06:42 AM
Through the years I have run numerous ways to move water. Vortecs, Sea Swirls, Carlson Surge, Tunzes and combinations of them all. I currently have Tunzes on a 120 and really do like them. Are they the best...well they have plus and minus like everything out. Personally Vortecs were too troublesome for me. Too loud for my liking and they occasionally would drop off the glass due to what ever. Tunzes are great other than the obstruction in the display However Tunzes have reduced the size of their units and are much more directional than they use to be. Other than the visible cord I find them not much larger than the Vortec. Guess at this time I would vote for Tunze.