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View Full Version : ideal sump turnover rate?


brob22
01/17/2014, 01:27 AM
hi all

iv heard that all u need is 1x

some say 10 times and others say 5x

i understand the theory that the slow flow would give the skimmer and fuge plenty of time to filter the water. but on the other hand, im thinkin that a higher turnover rate would pass water more times through the skimmer and refugium. not sure if im thinkin about this logically, would love to hear other peoples opinions

mrrobert
01/17/2014, 01:57 AM
I also have conflicting info I have found. I personally did 10 times with an oversized protein skimmer for my gallonage.

mrrobert
01/17/2014, 02:03 AM
I think as far as the skimmer goes it's gonna grab water constantly. I like the higher turn over rate cuz it passes it through my 7 inch filter sock that much more. ? Crystal clear water.....

superdragon
01/17/2014, 02:31 AM
When flow rates are higher the skimmer can't keep up with the nutrients flowing by and doesn't work well. I already tried this on my Speedwave 2640 on my 120g from 1/6 to 6/6 and my RO POV DC1 skimmer. 5x or 2/6 seems to work well for my skimmer.

brob22
01/17/2014, 03:05 AM
thx for the responses

that reminds me of the other point that i read. that its good to match the flow rate with the skimmer pump. is this true?

wyattroa
01/17/2014, 06:32 AM
thx for the responses

that reminds me of the other point that i read. that its good to match the flow rate with the skimmer pump. is this true?

everything I heave read says this to be true. Or at least try to match them as close to possible.

Nickh06
01/17/2014, 07:59 AM
my turnover rate is around 500 - 700 gph for my 90 gallon. I have a mag 9.5 that I adjusted down with a ball valve

Green Chromis
01/17/2014, 08:08 AM
:fish1: Hi, you should match your sump flow rate to the skimmer flow rate. My skimmer uses an Iwaki 100rlt so I run an Iwaki 100rlt for my return to the tank. :fish1:

ridetheducati
01/17/2014, 09:27 AM
My skimmer processes at 600 gph and the tank turnover is 1000 gph.

ca1ore
01/17/2014, 10:22 AM
I think this is all 'waffle'. IME, the only things that are critical with flow through the sump is that temperature is maintained in the display and that enough water flows over the overflow weir to effect adequate surface skimming. I can see absolutely no good reason why matching the skimmer pump with gph through the sump should make any difference at all, none! Further, in-tank flow requirements are far better met (and more economically) with power-heads than asking it from your main pump. I run about 1,000 gph through my sump for a 265 gallon display, so a little less then four times. More than sufficient.

PeTe PoLyP
01/17/2014, 10:34 AM
:fish1: Hi, you should match your sump flow rate to the skimmer flow rate. My skimmer uses an Iwaki 100rlt so I run an Iwaki 100rlt for my return to the tank. :fish1:

You would be lucky to have 1/2 the turnover of your skimmer with the head loss.

ridetheducati
01/17/2014, 12:07 PM
The cool thing about this hobby is you can do what you want. Check out this nugget of information...

A sump is not required.

brob22
01/17/2014, 02:04 PM
thx for all the responses guys

i apreciate it

syrinx
01/17/2014, 02:04 PM
I run as high of a rate as I can without having micro bubble issues. Slow turnovers were the rage when people were more interested in skimmer efficiency rather than tank health. I believe many of the hair algae issues are from leaving the water in the tank where the algae can consume the waste, rather than rushing it to the fuge where other algae can do it more efficiently. But the key is always balance for whatever system you are using-as long as the system is in balance-4x or 40x is not really a issue. My most extreme turnover is on a skimmerless tank- 40B with a mag18 and a SQWD.

Bilk
01/17/2014, 02:38 PM
I think this is all 'waffle'. IME, the only things that are critical with flow through the sump is that temperature is maintained in the display and that enough water flows over the overflow weir to effect adequate surface skimming. I can see absolutely no good reason why matching the skimmer pump with gph through the sump should make any difference at all, none! Further, in-tank flow requirements are far better met (and more economically) with power-heads than asking it from your main pump. I run about 1,000 gph through my sump for a 265 gallon display, so a little less then four times. More than sufficient.I have to agree. The system water volume is homogenous. There might be some additional organics skimmed from the surface, but I'm not sure it's appreciable in well moving water. I have two of the four return lines pointing at the surface to break the water tension and to provide nice glitter lines on the sand bed :) What ever is in the water is equally distributed throughout. The skimmer pulls X amount out over time no matter how much water passes by IMO. I like high flow thru the sump for better aeration and better particulate filtering via the socks. JMO

Edit: I have to add that dwell time in the sump may or may not be more import and to in sump skimmers. I have an external downdraft skimmer powered by an Iwaki 70 so there's no issue drawing water to the skimmer.

PeTe PoLyP
01/17/2014, 02:42 PM
I run as high of a rate as I can without having micro bubble issues. Slow turnovers were the rage when people were more interested in skimmer efficiency rather than tank health. I believe many of the hair algae issues are from leaving the water in the tank where the algae can consume the waste, rather than rushing it to the fuge where other algae can do it more efficiently. But the key is always balance for whatever system you are using-as long as the system is in balance-4x or 40x is not really a issue. My most extreme turnover is on a skimmerless tank- 40B with a mag18 and a SQWD.

you can have a sump turnover of 1x per hour and still get the nutrients to the sump. It has more to do with turnover in your display to keep the particles suspended in the water column, then to the drain. From what I understand is that there's a give and take. Too little flow and not enough water volume is filtered, too much flow and it rushes past your filtration and nothing is removed. There is no rule of thumb when it comes with this. Toy with it and find out what's right for you.

PeTe PoLyP
01/17/2014, 02:43 PM
The cool thing about this hobby is you can do what you want. Check out this nugget of information...

A sump is not required.

+1
Skimmer not required
Those are options that may make it easier but they aren't necessary

ca1ore
01/17/2014, 02:48 PM
I run about 1,000 gph through my sump for a 265 gallon display, so a little less then four times. More than sufficient.

Is quoting yourself the online version of talking to yourself .... bad sign? :lol:

Got curious, so went and double-checked my pump. It is a Panworld 150 rated at 1,100 gph at zero head, so in my case, accounting for pressure from pumping up 8 feet and friction from plumbing, I figure I am probably getting a net of about 750 gph. So actually not even 3x through the display.

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r680/ca1ore/IMG_0347_zpsc627c964.jpg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/ca1ore/media/IMG_0347_zpsc627c964.jpg.html)

Tank looks ok :) Not a speck of unwanted algae.

NastyZ
01/17/2014, 02:53 PM
I have a small pump as my return 750gph (which I need to upgrade) with head loss according to RC calculator I'm at bout 461gph in the tank so that's about 5x turnover but I have powerheads in my sump (no baffles) so nothing accumulates and a ton of flow in my DT so nothing accumulates the way I see it it will eventually be skimmed out weather I have 1x turnover or 100x

PeTe PoLyP
01/17/2014, 03:03 PM
I'm using a sicce syncra for my return pump on a 40b setup, I will be using a manifold on this for equipment. I'm just going to dial it in to get the flow that seems appropriate. In my mind 200gph seems like it would work great. I will be using 2xwp25 in the display to keep detritus and other nutrients suspended I'm the water column

small_polyp
01/17/2014, 03:21 PM
Its changed over the years. It used to be as much as you could..lots of turnover. Now the thinking is diffrent...slow so ure skimmer can get more stuff outa the water. I've slowed mine down to maybe 3x and use circulation pumps in the tank...years ago we didnt have them like we do today...i used to run 4 maxijet 1200's on a red sea wavemaster pro back then:crazy1:

brob22
01/17/2014, 05:08 PM
nice tank calori

u can't argue with those results

ridetheducati
01/17/2014, 08:07 PM
Did someone say results?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/ridetheducati/Multicoralsrightside.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/ridetheducati/FTSMay2012.jpg

PeTe PoLyP
01/17/2014, 08:28 PM
Did someone say results?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/ridetheducati/Multicoralsrightside.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/ridetheducati/FTSMay2012.jpg

Love the tank... Here's my results of 0x per hour sump turnover. Its still pretty virginhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/enyva3aq.jpg

2_zoa
01/17/2014, 09:12 PM
It really blows me away when folks post pics of their tanks or get to the point of requesting pics of others tanks to "prove" their point on a single topic. Pics of any system prove total husbandry. Not any one method or any one piece of equipment.

Having said that. I personally have not ever had a true "sump" on any of my tanks. However, if I should ever find the need or the desire to use one. Ill run high turn over in the display and a slower (up to 10X) through the sump/fuge. Why? I just like that setup.

ca1ore
01/17/2014, 09:32 PM
Any excuse to see photos of folks tanks works for me - whether or not it has any proof value or not.

ridetheducati
01/18/2014, 06:51 AM
It really blows me away when folks post pics of their tanks or get to the point of requesting pics of others tanks to "prove" their point on a single topic. Pics of any system prove total husbandry. Not any one method or any one piece of equipment.

Having said that. I personally have not ever had a true "sump" on any of my tanks. However, if I should ever find the need or the desire to use one. Ill run high turn over in the display and a slower (up to 10X) through the sump/fuge. Why? I just like that setup.

My pix provide no value only amusement.

All the corals in the pictures were photoshopped, cut, pasted, and hand drawn. In fact, I never had a reef tank. :eek1: What is a sump and I am not familiar with the acronym fuge?

:worried:

ridetheducati
01/18/2014, 06:57 AM
Any excuse to see photos of folks tanks works for me - whether or not it has any proof value or not.

If someone says photo within a thread you are suppose to photo bomb.

Seriously, it really does not matter how much flow is going through the sump. The only important part is to have a glass box with animals to view and enjoy. How you get there has many paths.

ca1ore
01/18/2014, 08:22 AM
My pix provide no value only amusement.

You have some really nice tables in there. Did you grow them from frags? If so, how long did it take? Am curious because, one, my tank needs to do some growing; and two, am wondering how long before I have to start trimming stuff back?

ridetheducati
01/18/2014, 12:49 PM
You have some really nice tables in there. Did you grow them from frags? If so, how long did it take? Am curious because, one, my tank needs to do some growing; and two, am wondering how long before I have to start trimming stuff back?

Grown from one inch frags. It generally takes 2.5 - 3 years to grow them to a 12 inch diameter, barely fitting into a five gallon bucket. I often reboot my system every three years and start over from frags. I dont know how hobbyist can put two SPS frags a couple inches away from each other. If I did that in my system, they would grow into each other in six months. My spacing is 6-8 inches.

9 month growth comparison...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/ridetheducati/Combined_zps6e1f9d68.jpg