View Full Version : is this coral dead?
nrogan
01/17/2014, 07:20 AM
is this a frogspawn?
i think i killed my frogspawn...
this is what happened, i live down in australia, and recently it underwent a heatwave. it was 40c+ 4 days straight, this heated my tank up. Only yesterday i added 4 new corals, a zoanthid, anenome, chalice and devils hand. a few hours later i fiddled with my filter (only contains sponge media) and realised it was entirely turned off (probably for a week). after i turned it on another few hours the coral started to retract. thought this was normal considering it was near the evening then checked up on it again, still it remained hidden. i bought this coral at a lfs along with a mandarin only a week ago, cycled my tank for at least a month.
also another problem i would like to arise is that when the frogspawn started to act abnormally the water became cloudy, as time went on the cloudiness became more intense. i was wondering if its the cause of the dead coral.
considering about doing 70% water change tomorrow
i've submitted some photos. the one with the red background shows that it is completely obliterated by something... the other photo of the coral was earlier in the day
also the parameters are unknown as i don't possess a test kit yet, planning to bring my water to check tomorrow.
please consider that im new to the hobby and i know i shouldnt have purchased the coral if i didnt know what it was. caused me a heck of a havoc
urgent help needed
Maaka
01/17/2014, 07:26 AM
I would say it seems to be dead. Unless there is still some flesh left on it which does not show up in the pictures.
ryeguyy84
01/17/2014, 07:26 AM
if your filter was off for a week it was filled with standing water? I would test for ammonia, and do a large water change. if you can still see some purple I'd say the coral isn't happy but it's alive.
auburnreefer110
01/17/2014, 07:34 AM
I wish more people would research and get there tanks going properly before killing this stuff.
Palting
01/17/2014, 07:36 AM
I would say definitely dead. Or if not dead now, it will be very soon. Too bad, that's a good sized colony. Sorry for your loss.
I assume the tank is pretty new. I suggest you purchase test kits first before you buy any other livestock, coral or fish. Large water change certainly is in order. Only after you have established tank parameter stability for several weeks would you buy any nore coral.
Maaka
01/17/2014, 07:43 AM
You said you just added an anemone? I would keep an eye on it. Anemones usually require a mature tank with great water quality, and strong lighting.
I would hate to see you lose the anemone too, and just have it add to the problems you are already having.
Mark9
01/17/2014, 08:26 AM
I wish more people would research and get there tanks going properly before killing this stuff.
I don't think this is going to help his current situation.
He is asking for help, not a tongue lashing.
small_polyp
01/17/2014, 08:52 AM
toast:sad1:
nrogan
01/17/2014, 10:02 AM
i will post the water parameters later during the day, btw its a frogspawn right? the sales person informed me so, but i remain reluctant to accept that it is part of the Euphyllia species. would be nice if anyone can reassure me.
thanks.
Mark9
01/17/2014, 10:10 AM
i will post the water parameters later during the day, btw its a frogspawn right? the sales person informed me so, but i remain reluctant to accept that it is part of the Euphyllia species. would be nice if anyone can reassure me.
thanks.
Doesn't look like my frogspawn.
I'm thinking dead, whatever it is.
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/bigmark9/Aquarium/P1060727_zpsd763030d.jpg
rlm2005
01/17/2014, 10:13 AM
I can't tell if it'a a wall frogspawn or wall hammer but it's one of them. Sad, that was a nice sized colony.
cakemanPA
01/17/2014, 10:13 AM
I wish more people would research and get there tanks going properly before killing this stuff.
Not necessary. I see you just joined. Hopefully all of your 200+ posts in the last 2 weeks are not so negative
To the OP. Test for ammonia. No flow thru your filter and then turning it on could have released a lot of ammonia from die off in the filter.
rlm2005
01/17/2014, 10:16 AM
Doesn't look like my frogspawn.
I'm thinking dead, whatever it is.
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/bigmark9/Aquarium/P1060727_zpsd763030d.jpg
Not to state the obvious but yours is alive. :lmao: More than likely yours is a branching frogspawn. I prefer the branching species because you can frag them successfully which comes in handy if something goes wrong and you need to cut off a dead head or one suffering brown jelly. That said I have a huge wall hammer that I love.
ColtonMeng
01/17/2014, 03:07 PM
looks like a dead hammer coral to me.
I'd do a 25% water change daily for a few days.
Colton
auburnreefer110
01/17/2014, 03:20 PM
Not being negative, being honest. I understand being new, but a lot of research on living animals should be done prior to buying them. He doesn't even know what it is, or didn't know his filter was off for a week. And does not even own a test kit. This is the problem with the hobby sometimes, people just dive in and don't think of the issues they will have. My post count means nothing, I don't know why people always jump on post count. Post count means nothing, just because someone has a high post count, and has been on here for a few years. Doesn't mean anything. But good luck to him.
rlm2005
01/17/2014, 05:20 PM
Not being negative, being honest. I understand being new, but a lot of research on living animals should be done prior to buying them. He doesn't even know what it is, or didn't know his filter was off for a week. And does not even own a test kit. This is the problem with the hobby sometimes, people just dive in and don't think of the issues they will have. My post count means nothing, I don't know why people always jump on post count. Post count means nothing, just because someone has a high post count, and has been on here for a few years. Doesn't mean anything. But good luck to him.
Many people don't research at all, at least the OP is at RC asking for help. We here represent a fraction of the people in this hobby, I wish everyone who was interested in saltwater tanks would read, join forums and be as knowledgeable as they can but unfortunately that doesn't happen. I think it's better to help instead of chastising posters so they will learn and hopefully next time make informed choices.
mbingha
01/17/2014, 05:30 PM
I'm surprised no one has said anything about the Mandarin that he purchased as his first fish in a new tank... It will surely die of starvation in a few weeks/months time because your tank is not established long enough (and not really large enough) to have the pod population to support a mandarin.
Palting
01/17/2014, 06:12 PM
i will post the water parameters later during the day, btw its a frogspawn right? the sales person informed me so, but i remain reluctant to accept that it is part of the Euphyllia species. would be nice if anyone can reassure me.
thanks.
A one time test for parameters isn't going to tell you much about whether your tank is ready for livestock or not, but at least it's a start. As I recommended, do a large water change, then see where your tank s going with a series of parameter tests. You may lose some more of your livestock if your tank is still immature and unstable. If your series of tests show that your tank s still unstable, you can try and save your livestock by housing them temporarily with your LFS or a mature tank with a fellow reefer. You can also do multiple water changes frequently, but that will get expensive with salt water as well as it being quite backbreaking.
Whether it was frogspawn or hammer, they are the same genus. The key is what the polyp heads looked like when it was alive. If the polyp heads look like round bulbs, sort of like eggs, then it's a frogspawn or likely Euphllia paradivisa. If the heads look elongated, sort of like a hammer head, then it was a hammer coral or Euphyllia ancora.
Here is a hammer coral, one that I have in my tank. The skeleton you have in your photo is almost exactly what the skeleton of this coral looks like when the poylps are pulled in. I've had this for more than 3 years:
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/Kalawing/Snapbucket/CFBE4AAE.jpg
nrogan
01/17/2014, 08:30 PM
I'm surprised no one has said anything about the Mandarin that he purchased as his first fish in a new tank... It will surely die of starvation in a few weeks/months time because your tank is not established long enough (and not really large enough) to have the pod population to support a mandarin.
as stated above, i've cycled it for a month...
nrogan
01/17/2014, 08:38 PM
Not being negative, being honest. I understand being new, but a lot of research on living animals should be done prior to buying them. He doesn't even know what it is, or didn't know his filter was off for a week. And does not even own a test kit. This is the problem with the hobby sometimes, people just dive in and don't think of the issues they will have. My post count means nothing, I don't know why people always jump on post count. Post count means nothing, just because someone has a high post count, and has been on here for a few years. Doesn't mean anything. But good luck to him.
if you read my post properly, i emphasised the fact that i was lacking in many materials and also the lack of knowledge. not sure why you're still trying to pull my sock. i love this hobby this is why i put the effort to ask for help and put in hours of research. don't judge me just because im new to the hobby or because of this first mistake. i used to keep tropical fish and no i dont buy livestock without know what it is and its compatibility. this was my first time because i thought people forums would help me identify the frogspawn. with the test kit issue, my cousin has one and i was waiting for him to lend it to me. also with the filter i forgot to turn the valve...
nrogan
01/17/2014, 08:43 PM
A one time test for parameters isn't going to tell you much about whether your tank is ready for livestock or not, but at least it's a start. As I recommended, do a large water change, then see where your tank s going with a series of parameter tests. You may lose some more of your livestock if your tank is still immature and unstable. If your series of tests show that your tank s still unstable, you can try and save your livestock by housing them temporarily with your LFS or a mature tank with a fellow reefer. You can also do multiple water changes frequently, but that will get expensive with salt water as well as it being quite backbreaking.
Whether it was frogspawn or hammer, they are the same genus. The key is what the polyp heads looked like when it was alive. If the polyp heads look like round bulbs, sort of like eggs, then it's a frogspawn or likely Euphllia paradivisa. If the heads look elongated, sort of like a hammer head, then it was a hammer coral or Euphyllia ancora.
Here is a hammer coral, one that I have in my tank. The skeleton you have in your photo is almost exactly what the skeleton of this coral looks like when the poylps are pulled in. I've had this for more than 3 years:
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/Kalawing/Snapbucket/CFBE4AAE.jpg
i was only gathering the parameters so that you guys can identify the problem how and why my frogspawn died.
this is what it initially looked like until its unfortunate faith
acabgd
01/17/2014, 08:49 PM
The stickies (permanent posts on top of this forum) could have cured at least a part of your lack of knowledge. Also, you say you've kept tropical fish so you must be familiar with cycling the tank. Yet here you didn't even test the water before introducing coral. Mandarin requires a large and well established tank and that info is found after a 2 minute board or Google search. The same goes for an anemone.
I also don't understand all the posters replying with the same - do test your water, make water changes, you have to make sure that..... All that info is in the stickies and more extensive and comprehensive than what we write here. The only advice should actually be to read the stickies, that's all there is to it.
nrogan
01/17/2014, 09:04 PM
okay, the coral is confirmed dead, i was wondering if it was okay if i used its skeleton as a live rock?
auburnreefer110
01/17/2014, 09:09 PM
Exactly acabgd, exactly. Don't start the hobby if you don't have all the tools or basic knowledge.
JokersAce69
01/17/2014, 09:16 PM
The skeleton will provide good calcium.
Lateralus
01/17/2014, 09:22 PM
The skeleton will provide good calcium.
It will?..
JokersAce69
01/17/2014, 09:27 PM
The skeleton will provide good calcium.
It will?..
Heck yeah! Crush that bad boy up into dust, liquefy it then dose it in! :crazy1:
Palting
01/17/2014, 10:58 PM
this is what it initially looked like until its unfortunate faith
Yes, that's a frogspawn. It does look sickly from the get-go, though. It is bleached, and the polyps are retracted. A healthy frogspawn would have more color, with the skeleton fully covered by the flesh and the polyps extended fully.
okay, the coral is confirmed dead, i was wondering if it was okay if i used its skeleton as a live rock?
It would serve as a good base rock, but as live rock, no. Live rock needs to be porous for the different strains of bacteria to populate the different zones of the rock. Plus, that large skeleton piece still contains dead and decaying tissue. This will increase your ammonia load, further endangering your remaining living livestock. I would take the skeleton out. Bleach it, dry it out for several weeks, then clean it, then maybe you can return it to the tank as a decorative piece if you want. It will get covered in coralline algae in time.
One more thing about tank stability. Just because your tank cycled in a month does not mean it can handle ALL types of livestock. It usually takes several months for the tank to develop the sufficient number and diversity of the beneficial bacteria and critters that are needed for the tank to be stable. Mandarins are an example. They need a large population of live pods to eat, and it will take several months and a large enough tank with enough rock and substrate to create a self-sustaining population of pods to feed a mandarin. For a tank under 6 months old, it is usually best to only get hardy and easy livestock first, then slowly move to the more challenging ones. It takes time for the tank, and the aquarist, to develop sufficient maturity. Nothing good happens fast in reef keeping.
HTH and GL!
nrogan
01/18/2014, 02:11 AM
Exactly acabgd, exactly. Don't start the hobby if you don't have all the tools or basic knowledge.
you are so dense, not sure if you even know how to read
nrogan
01/18/2014, 02:22 AM
Yes, that's a frogspawn. It does look sickly from the get-go, though. It is bleached, and the polyps are retracted. A healthy frogspawn would have more color, with the skeleton fully covered by the flesh and the polyps extended fully.
it was really healthy, that was the first few hours of introducing it to my tank. after a few days it adjusted to my tank and opened up beautifully, covered the whole skeleton when i turn my lights on. as soon as the lights go off it would retract.
It would serve as a good base rock, but as live rock, no. Live rock needs to be porous for the different strains of bacteria to populate the different zones of the rock. Plus, that large skeleton piece still contains dead and decaying tissue. This will increase your ammonia load, further endangering your remaining living livestock. I would take the skeleton out. Bleach it, dry it out for several weeks, then clean it, then maybe you can return it to the tank as a decorative piece if you want. It will get covered in coralline algae in time.
One more thing about tank stability. Just because your tank cycled in a month does not mean it can handle ALL types of livestock. It usually takes several months for the tank to develop the sufficient number and diversity of the beneficial bacteria and critters that are needed for the tank to be stable. Mandarins are an example. They need a large population of live pods to eat, and it will take several months and a large enough tank with enough rock and substrate to create a self-sustaining population of pods to feed a mandarin. For a tank under 6 months old, it is usually best to only get hardy and easy livestock first, then slowly move to the more challenging ones. It takes time for the tank, and the aquarist, to develop sufficient maturity. Nothing good happens fast in reef keeping.
cant i feed my mandarin brine shrimp?
HTH and GL!
auburnreefer110
01/18/2014, 06:57 AM
you are so dense, not sure if you even know how to read
I am so dense, did you read your post. You sound like you have no basic clue on having a tank. No test kits how do you know if your tank even went through a proper cycle. How do you know what your levels were before you added ( Killed ) yet more stuff. I am dense though, and a sponge filter on a reef tank? Good luck with that. I have 20 years in this hobby, I might not be up on all the new and current equipment, but I would study and read as much as possible before setting up a tank. So you are the one I would say is DENSE. Good luck with your disaster of a tank, and my Frogspawn is 12 years old.
Froggy
01/18/2014, 07:23 AM
I am so dense, did you read your post. You sound like you have no basic clue on having a tank. No test kits how do you know if your tank even went through a proper cycle. How do you know what your levels were before you added ( Killed ) yet more stuff. I am dense though, and a sponge filter on a reef tank? Good luck with that. I have 20 years in this hobby, I might not be up on all the new and current equipment, but I would study and read as much as possible before setting up a tank. So you are the one I would say is DENSE. Good luck with your disaster of a tank, and my Frogspawn is 12 years old.
There is a learning curve in this hobby and posts like this do not help. Should more research be done before large specimens like this are added to a tank? Yes, for sure. Posts like this one though is what drives people away from forums like this when they came looking for advice and help. All that needs to be done is give constructive advice on the steps to get the tank on track. I have been in this hobby for many years and still learn something new every day. The only thing I have learned from your advice is how to be negative toward someone.
To the OP, sorry for your loss of the coral but feel secure that that has happened to most of us. I would remove the coral from the tank, get an assortment of test kits to see what is going on with your water. Patience will be the key now to wait and let your tank age a while. Keep tabs on your parameters and establish a care routine for your tank. That way once you start stocking with livestock you have a base of care techniques to fall back on. There are many ways to run a successful tank from the very simple to the complex. Use this forum as a tool to decide how you would like to run your tank. Do not let the minority of negative feedback drive you away from the forum. There are many here with a wealth of information that are willing to help. Take it slow and good luck!
Joe
auburnreefer110
01/18/2014, 07:36 AM
I wouldn't say it has happened to most of us. I researched a ton before even thinking about setting it up. So if you do the research, join the forums, and ask all your questions prior. You won't have these problems, so I am not being negative just realistic. It's like just going and putting a Police uniform and going out into the public, not knowing any laws or guidelines. Recipe for disaster, sorry you don't like my answer or comments. But sorry it is the truth, people keep doing idiotic stuff like this. Corals will all be 300.00 a pop.
Froggy
01/18/2014, 07:55 AM
I wouldn't say it has happened to most of us. I researched a ton before even thinking about setting it up. So if you do the research, join the forums, and ask all your questions prior. You won't have these problems, so I am not being negative just realistic. It's like just going and putting a Police uniform and going out into the public, not knowing any laws or guidelines. Recipe for disaster, sorry you don't like my answer or comments. But sorry it is the truth, people keep doing idiotic stuff like this. Corals will all be 300.00 a pop.
Problems occur even to the most knowledgable. I myself just had a SPS melt down for no reason. I would like to know the health of the Frogspawn from the start. It could have been doomed from the beginning. Research and knowledge can help prevent problems but I have had coral get mad at me for looking at it wrong or making the mistake of saying "man the tank has been looking really good lately". Next day a coral replies "eh, bite me" and begins to STN/RTN. Moments like those ground me and brings back my respect for the livestock we keep.
I just feel positive feedback is always better than negative to correct something going wrong. Honesty can be given positively as well and not just through negative word spankings.
Joe
auburnreefer110
01/18/2014, 08:43 AM
Agreed, sorry for being a little over bearing. That is funny I try to never say how good it looks or is doing either. Because then it does laugh at ya.
Palting
01/18/2014, 09:46 AM
cant i feed my mandarin brine shrimp?
No. Brine shrimp is one of the least nutritious. Unless the gut-loaded ones. But most likely the mandarin won't eat it, anyway. You may get lucky and have enough pods so the mandarin survives, or not and he dies.
mbingha
01/18/2014, 01:31 PM
as stated above, i've cycled it for a month...
Cycled is not the same as established. It takes many months to a year for the pod population to grow enough to support a mandarin. But it sounds like you know it all so you have it under control :screwy:
alexx2208
01/23/2014, 11:16 AM
as stated above, i've cycled it for a month...
A month isn't even close to cycle pods, make it more like a year...
Yes it's a frogspawn, but for your information, there are more types in the euphyllia species, hammer, frogspawn, and torch, which are shown in the pictures of the alive corals you posted.
I would say get a test kit, and start from scratch with the tank, I'm sure all the parameters are ridiculously off course from the pictures...
And if the mandarin is still alive, return it.
Chevrefils
01/23/2014, 12:54 PM
I am so dense, did you read your post. You sound like you have no basic clue on having a tank. No test kits how do you know if your tank even went through a proper cycle. How do you know what your levels were before you added ( Killed ) yet more stuff. I am dense though, and a sponge filter on a reef tank? Good luck with that. I have 20 years in this hobby, I might not be up on all the new and current equipment, but I would study and read as much as possible before setting up a tank. So you are the one I would say is DENSE. Good luck with your disaster of a tank, and my Frogspawn is 12 years old.
Respect the individual. Jeez the way people get all high and mighty on the internet. We wouldnt talk like that to someone face to face. This isn't a competition. You have 20 years experience? Than you should have a list of mistakes under your belt longer than this thread. I know looking back in hindsight I've made many mistakes and I will make more. Did people pounce on you when you asked for help? I would hope not. Having a positive attitude can go a long way.
As for the coral it does seem dead. Some corals can seem non existent and then miraculously come back. I'm not saying to leave it in I'm just saying corals are funny. Currently I'm going through a time with my frogspawn being retracted at times for seems like no reason. Then other times its all pumped up and huge.
MAGNUMDIVER
01/23/2014, 04:01 PM
I would stop where you are, take whatever you can out of the tank. Maybe your cousin you mentioned can babysit them in his tank till you are ready that Mandarin will not make it in your tank. Get a test kit get your water right and then slowly start to add live stock. There is a learning curve to this hobby but you need to go very very very slow.
living_waters
01/23/2014, 04:56 PM
Sounds like someone needs to head back over to the new to the hobby primer, did I read you bought a mandarin after your cycle tisk tisk tisk.
living_waters
01/23/2014, 05:00 PM
In all honesty we live and we learn but you need to start doing research before you buy then if something goes wrong you can try and fix it. The frogspawn looks dead and try and take the mandy back asap
96p993
01/23/2014, 05:16 PM
...
fishroomlady
01/23/2014, 05:35 PM
I agree with the postings that mentioned trying to be helpful and not judgmental. I would take the livestock out and house with a friend (with an established system) or take to the LFS. In all honesty, the LFS should not have sold you the anemone or a beautiful large coral with such a young system.
After you remove the livestock, then do a few water changes and get those test kits so you can be sure you're fully cycled. People usually suggest getting a CUC as a starter and later fish. You definitely want to start with some hardy fish and add them very slowly with at least 2 weeks in between additions.
I'm glad you sought out the forums for help. If you take the advice given, you can turn your tank around and enjoy it.
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