Idea for meeting

[Borchers]

So it's been awhile

How about a meeting about Refugiums, clean up crews and natural filtration :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Not skimmers or reactors I'm talking ATS, Deep sand beds, Marco Algae, Water changes, Cryptic zones, sponges and more!

[Relientkiid]

Good call bro. I'd really like to be there for this one.

[toky916]

+1 sounds like a good subject !

[palygirl]

Volunteers to give the talk?

[Saltwaternooby]

I have thought about this topic or at least parts of it. However I am not well versed in all of them.

[psykobowler]

How about a general group discussion with a mediator instead of a panel? A panel might be more biased towards certain methods and not cover all topics equally. Just have someone play Donahue or Gerardo or montel. I am sure a lot of us have tried some or most of them and can give both pros and cons on each. For example, In my case, I employed a cryptic zone and refugium. I still use a cryptic zone but removed my macro algae refugium because macro algae no longer thrive. Changing my gfo replacement from 4 weeks to 3 weeks had stunted the macro algae but helped my sps with calcification. I experienced a lot more growth with sps corals and frags are now mini colonies.

Just an example I observed:
Cryptic zone pros: lots of sponges, pods galore, little critters such as bristle worms, feather dusters, no need to clean container for algae buildup since it remains dark. Increased biological filtration with added rock in which bacteria colonized. Opportunity to use less rock in the display because most reside in the cryptic zone. Less rock in the display means more flow between rocks and less detritus build up in the display. By the way, eggcrate in the dark is a sponge magnet. For some reason sponges like to colonize in those little squares. Cons: if you have a pile of rocks anywhere in the system such as the cryptic zone it still can potentially collect detritus depending on the plumbing and you likely have to occasionally move rocks to siphon the mulm that collects in the bottom. If you employ filter socks it usually is not a problem.

Dsb: all cons to me - a ticking time bomb even with a rdsb because you don't exactly know when it is going to explode. Discovery of carbon dosing made this method pretty much obsolete to me.

Carbon dosing - makes tank nitrate limited but still accumulates phosphate. Gfo should still be employed unless dosing nitrate or sources of nitrate such as amino acids to help corals and bacteria. Bacteria can then take in more phosphate due to increased nitrate.

Just my suggestion. Thanks.

[Vlad91]

Good one, thats for sure

[crazzyreefer]

My observations, Aquarium manufactures love equipment, thus they make and sell equipment that has limited value, even when proven of no value, continue to sell and distribute them on false data. Bio balls and wet dry systems come to mind, UV sterilizers that have less than needed chamber time, Skimmers that do not have the dwell time long enough to build up surfactants on bubbles,

I ran a completely closed system for years as a test, no end run for nutrient removal, Nitrates were off the charts and blood red in tests, all corals and fish were happy and healthy, but it was a vary balanced system, Black Sponges grew 2' tall and 2" around in the main display, every inch was covered in something that was alive and thriving.

Cons to this tank was I couldn't add one more fish or invert, addition of one meant doom for another.

On another system, some of you may recall from the snail group buys, I ran a sand filter that had 2000 lbs of sand, you could dump toxic waste into the tank and no ill effect.

Con this filter took enormous amount of room and power for all the pumps, had to be heated with a quarts room heater and cools with an air conditioning unit.

Another 200+ system had a DSB, ran like a Swiss watch, no major issues except when I went to run my hand through the sand bed and had to have hours of bristle worm removed from the palm of my hand.... Lesson learned. Eventually many years latter the sand when bad and released back into the water killing all inhabitants.

I ran a 72 with only a ATS, that employed a HD Pc flood light and a small pump that pumped water over the screen for a set time and them shut off allowing the ATs to drain back into the sump,

Easy to operate, cheap to build, worked OK, not the best filter nor the worst, Great for pods, mostly a softy tank, SPS did poorly. had to keep replacing the Bulbs in the light due to color shift.


300 gal system (first wet dry system in operation) used layers of bonded dacron and many layers of nylon bird netting. System worked Ok, proved to be a nitrate factory about the same time Bio Balls were introduced to the public... Yea I'm old...

Current System Bare bottom, 600 Gal/1000 total gal system with a skimmer that is 24' tall to build surfactants on the bubbles prior to skimmer exit, 40 gal, 240 watt Led ATS powered by the skimmer. System is self sufficient, minimal care, no cleaning of the skimmer is needed, and only 1/2 of the ATS needs to be cleaned once a month due to low growth

Cons, could have paid off the mortgage!

I left out at least a dozen other systems I have had in the last 40+ years but if anyone wants any info on any of the systems I can give much more details.

Current build is a fully self sufficient, low energy 100gal ATS with natural light to run the ATS, and this system s going into my Sailboat!

[bfliflet]

I think this topic would be a good meeting idea. The venue could be tricky in a panel format as some areas might need some background/description material presented. On the flip side, I am not sure if a single topic would be enough for a meeting. Take one or two at a time? We should have enough niche experience in the group to find presenters.

[crazzyreefer]

It would do better as a tank tour.......

[afamousjohnson]

I believe we have a power point on the clean-up crew part. I could look for it and send it your way for you guys to utilize if you set a topic around those areas.?.

[BCool]

I have tried several systems since 1995. My most successful and easiest to maintain is my current ATS only tank. I would recommend it to anyone. Seems rock solid with parameters.

Fish and coral seem the healthiest of any filtration method I have used.

I feed a ton and my Cardinals are already spawning and I have only had them for 4 months or so.

[bfliflet]

Hmm. And I thought I was the only fool to try ATS (I love mine). I'll start a survey thread on various incarnations in use. Hopefully those above and others will contribute with their experiences.

[SantaMonica]

Would love to see pics of the 24' scrubber :)

[bfliflet]

Hey! You're the one who needs to present at our aquarium society meeting on ATS...

[Saltwaternooby]

Would love to see pics of the 24' scrubber :)

Seriously though, interested?

[BCool]

Would love to see pics of the 24' scrubber :)

Thought he said the skimmer was 24'

[crazzyreefer]

Yes 24 feet not inches coupled to a 48 sf ATS and a 40 gal Dump (but is more like 100 due to the fill rate) that is funneled from a 4" pile to 1 1/4 to increase the pressure when it fills the display, they are controlled by 3 GF valves that act randomly, some time separately and some times in unison to create more of a tidal action in the tank.

The skimmer is self dumping and self cleaning. I had designed the Scrubber to do the same, but had issue and decided it wasn't going to be patten and not worth the extra time to re-engineer it.

Next tank tour I will open up my home.