My Lumia 5.2 / Jarduino Build

[Aqualund]

Well today is day one...the lights finally arrived. still waiting on some arduino parts.

I am trying out these lights at my coral farm to see if they will be a viable option for a larger operation. Figured I'd make a thread to help others...and maybe others can help me along the way :)

http://i.imgur.com/UsAhN0b.jpg

[pwreef]

Wow you brave. I would be a little concerned with cooling so many 3W emitters packed so densely. What heatsink are you going to use?

[Aqualund]

Yeah that is a concern of mine. I'm starting with the 4.5" x 4.5" heatsink from heatsink usa with a 80mm fan for each puck. we shall see how cool they can stay!

[coseal]

I just ordered a couple of these 5.2 for a build I'm doing, could you give me a rough measurement of the light chip?

[djmx2002]

tagging along... I need 5-10 multichip for my build (84x30x24 tank). I just got my first Lumia 5.2 today, seems pretty solid., I was actually planning to put 2 chips on the 12" Maker heat sink

[Fredfish]

Yeah baby!!

Can you give us the specs on the tanks these are going over? I'm particularly interested in what area you expect each one to cover and at what water depth the frags will be.

[Aqualund]

I just ordered a couple of these 5.2 for a build I'm doing, could you give me a rough measurement of the light chip?

1.5" x 3"

The tanks I will start these on are 4 500 gallon tanks that are 4'x8'. And a 120...The corals are 6 inches under the surface on the big tank...Im hoping for a 24x24 area coverage...but we'll see if that's possible or not :)

[mhucasey]

Following along...Is this your first time using the Lumias?

[pwreef]

What's your strategy for fan failure? I would think that heatsink that small would not be able to handle this chip with no fan.

[Fredfish]

With corals just 6" under the water, I wonder if you will get more than 24" x 24" coverage while still meeting your intensity requirements.

[djmx2002]

I think they recommend 2 chips per 24"

[Aqualund]

I think they recommend 2 chips per 24"

From the website: "Expect to use only 1-2 of these high performance LEDs per 24x24x24 area in most scenarios"

So i'm starting with one...like I said though this is to test them out...if I need more, I can always get more.


What's your strategy for fan failure? I would think that heatsink that small would not be able to handle this chip with no fan.

I was thinking of putting a heat-sensing circuit on the heat-sink...so that if it got too hot it would cut power to the leds. What do you think? Do you have any suggestions or wire diagrams for something similar?

Following along...Is this your first time using the Lumias?

Yeah I didnt use the previous version...and I wouldn't have gotten this one until I saw the array of the same leds Im already using...so it's easily justified for me :)

[Giga]

pretty sweet

[pwreef]

I was thinking of putting a heat-sensing circuit on the heat-sink...so that if it got too hot it would cut power to the leds. What do you think? Do you have any suggestions or wire diagrams for something similar?

Well Jarduino does have the ability to dim LEDs in case heatsink temperature goes to some value. Are you going with individual heatsinks for each puck? Then you will need individual temperature sensors and you will certainly run out of channels on Arduino. Personally I have a fixture using 5 pucks similar to these lumia things. I have 1 temp sensor for the 36" makers heatsink. I am running modified Jarduino code re-written by the guy who designed the shield I am using. The shield controls fan speed using PWM depending on heatsink temperature. A lot of the times my fans are off completely since the temperature is pretty low. Below 82F, but I also don't have the density of LEDs like these Lumia boards. My pucks are only 12 LEDs and they are spread out over a larger area I think.

[Aqualund]

Well Jarduino does have the ability to dim LEDs in case heatsink temperature goes to some value. Are you going with individual heatsinks for each puck? Then you will need individual temperature sensors and you will certainly run out of channels on Arduino. Personally I have a fixture using 5 pucks similar to these lumia things. I have 1 temp sensor for the 36" makers heatsink. I am running modified Jarduino code re-written by the guy who designed the shield I am using. The shield controls fan speed using PWM depending on heatsink temperature. A lot of the times my fans are off completely since the temperature is pretty low. Below 82F, but I also don't have the density of LEDs like these Lumia boards. My pucks are only 12 LEDs and they are spread out over a larger area I think.

Yeah the pucks are going to be individuals...so I'm thinking that will get very complex to try and utilize the jarduino for this. I imagine just a basic transistor that only closes at say 180 could be fine...and then when it closes it goes to ground through a resistor? I guess a temperature based pull down jumper? Is that possible?

[Aqualund]

Got a basic ghetto test system going to see what works and what doesn't. So far a lot of little odds and ends proving to be a pita. But in running on max power for 6 hours now, the temp of the chip is 97 degrees...which is a little high for me...but not crazy, and still well below what could be allowed, especially since this chip doesnt have the deep red leds like the last one.

http://i.imgur.com/CYyIi06.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/h950iKs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8V3jCaE.jpg

[one clownfish]

Great job so far, I'll be following along. What are you using for drivers?

[Aqualund]

Great job so far, I'll be following along. What are you using for drivers?

Thanks! The meanwell ldd's

[muttley000]

Hey Aqualund! Thanks for your advice via the Pm's! Wanting to follow this build to see how your corals react.

[bdevillier]

How do you like the jarduino? I'm tossed between it and the coralux storm. How many channels of control does the jarduino have for lighting? Is it a lighting only controller or can it do more like control heaters and such?

[Aqualund]

How do you like the jarduino? I'm tossed between it and the coralux storm. How many channels of control does the jarduino have for lighting? Is it a lighting only controller or can it do more like control heaters and such?

I like it a lot. I've never used the storm so I don't know what the comparison is. The Jarduino starts with 7 channels for LEDS...and yeah it can do all of the rest of the controller functions with relay circuits...plus you can customize it if you need something in particular.

I imagine with the addition of IC chips you could have infinite led channels...but ive never done something like that. I dunno...I like how cheap it is, I like being able to customize it, and I like being able to fix anything that goes wrong :)

[sparky45]

I'm tagging along. Just about finished my order and I was wondering if the 180w power supply would be enough for 3 700H ldd's and 2 1000H ldd's. I'm going to be running 2 5.2's?

[Aqualund]

you should be fine...at max power you will need 3.2A...and that one is a 3.75A PSU.

[sparky45]

Awesome. Going to finish my order now. Thank you for the fast response

[TriNewbie24]

Cant wait to see it over the tank, what LDD's did you go with? 1000 & 700's? What's your setup per Lumia and what size are the Power Supplies?

[jedimasterben]

Holy damn! That's some big bucks right there!





I'm tagging along. Just about finished my order and I was wondering if the 180w power supply would be enough for 3 700H ldd's and 2 1000H ldd's. I'm going to be running 2 5.2's?
If you maxed out the LDD at 45v each, you're pulling 185w, and you'd need a 220w power supply at a minimum (you need 20% extra as far as wattage goes). If you're not maxing out the LDD, then just calculate the power used and then add 20%.

[Aqualund]

They don't draw 45V each channel. They only draw 30W each channel...since each channel only has 10 leds on them.

[jedimasterben]

DERP shoulda read the end part of that post lol. Two of teh 5.2 shouldn't pull more than 150w when run like that, so the 180w power supply has exactly 20% 'spare area'.

[djmx2002]

Holy damn! That's some big bucks right there!













If you maxed out the LDD at 45v each, you're pulling 185w, and you'd need a 220w power supply at a minimum (you need 20% extra as far as wattage goes). If you're not maxing out the LDD, then just calculate the power used and then add 20%.


Can you? Most channels on the 5.2 are around 18v if I remember correctly

[Idefixes]

If you use at clay-boa rating Lumia 5.2 is max 86.74w power capable = (18x0.7)+(16.5x1.5)+(16.5x1.5)+(17.2x0.7)+(18x0.7). This can't be achieve with LLD-H since max is 1A unit so with 2 chanels @1A (LDD-1000H) and 3 chanels @0.7A (LDD-700h) you have max 70.4W. IMO in serie configuration you can use 3 (18v x3=36v) with 48V/5A (4.1A + 20%) powersupply

Marc

[Aqualund]

18v x 3v is 54v

[Idefixes]

18v x 3v is 54v

Yes aqualund i see my mistake to late....so on one LDD line we can just put 2 lumia 5.2 in serie...

Thanks for correction.

Marc

[Aqualund]

Okay I have completed the build for 4 light modules over my 500 gallon sump. And I have some information based on what I have.

The following info is based on the white and blue channels running at 85%, and all other channels at 65%.

1. RCA cable connectors are an insane pain in the butt to solder and put together. I will not be doing this in the future.

2. The screw type lenses don't do much, and they are very finnicky. I do not like them. There is also really no difference between fully extended and full retracted...mostly because the curvature of the single lens isn't much.

3. 14 inches over the water, the light units do cover nearly a 24" diameter circle, with about 250 par in the center, about 100 par 10 inches out (8 inches under)...and dropping off to 50 and below on the perimeter.

4. 4 light pucks covered a 48 x 24 area...but with a definitely dark spot at half point on the 48" span. would probably just need one in the middle of all four and be just fine for a 48 x 24 area.

5. Temperature with a constant fan on a 4.5 x 4.5 heatsink at the current intensity setting is 76 degrees directly above the led chip. I installed always closed thermal switches to cut power to the 5-up board if the fan dies and the heatsink reaches 167 degrees f.

6. All of the pictures I have included have the halides on in between the led pucks. Except one picture is just the led pucks with a ruler for reference.

7. I messed up when i ordered parts so I got the wrong screen to use with the jarduino. because of this, I was not able to try different color mixes to achieve any different "looks." After the chinese new year I can order the correct lcd and do some different blends to show what is capable with these fixtures.

So far though, I would say the current look and light mix is actually pretty nice, and is quite comparable to what I expected.

Also, for reference...don't drop your par meter into the water. The negative effects of this are IMMEDIATE.

Scroll to the end of the imgur album to see today's pictures.

<iframe class="imgur-album" width="100%" height="550" frameborder="0" src="http://imgur.com/a/fvupl/embed"></iframe>

[mikeoif08]

Another LED to check out is the Aurora Puck with wide angle tir lens which supposedly covers a 36"x 36" area. It has 4 channels. I myself have been debating the Aurora puck or 5.2 for my grow out tub.

[jedimasterben]

A single one certainly won't cover a 36x36 area.

[Aqualund]

Yeah i definitely dont like the amount of red in the aurora puck...but thanks for telling me about it! didnt know rapid made one :)

[Fredfish]

...
4. 4 light pucks covered a 48 x 24 area...but with a definitely dark spot at half point on the 48" span. would probably just need one in the middle of all four and be just fine for a 48 x 24 area.

Did you mean 48 x 48 area? Thats what it looks like in the last photo.


Also, for reference...don't drop your par meter into the water. The negative effects of this are IMMEDIATE.

Ouch!

Edit: Question. What is the distance between mounting holes? I have some solid copper heatsinks that have a 2.5 x 2.75 contact area that might just work for these.

[TriNewbie24]

Looks sweet! I'd like to see a pic without the halides if possible. Been looking at those and the Aurora pucks, but cant find any pics, Thought about doing a custom 1 & 1 build with the Aurora and the Lumia.

[Aqualund]

Looks sweet! I'd like to see a pic without the halides if possible. Been looking at those and the Aurora pucks, but cant find any pics, Thought about doing a custom 1 & 1 build with the Aurora and the Lumia.

I reference in my previous post that one of the last pictures is just the lumias...no halides were on.

Did you mean 48 x 48 area? Thats what it looks like in the last photo.

you are very right, that is 48x48, thanks!

[sfsuphysics]

Yeah i definitely dont like the amount of red in the aurora puck...but thanks for telling me about it! didnt know rapid made one :)

Just looked at it, and what it looks like is that they're trying to mimic the Radion Pro, looks like the same exact distribution and colors of LEDs (some small variations), and I bet a dollar to a donut they sourced the same factory that's cranking out those lenses which coincidentally come in a regular and "wide angle" just like the Radion pro. Bet some Chinese factory decided to start cranking these out. Only real difference is the Radion is 6 channels of control this is only 4.

But yeah, not a fan of greens, reds, red-orange, that they do. Also wish these manufacturers would fricking learn and stop using cool white. Also wish they'd go a little more up-to-date on the LEDs, I know there's some lag time behind what a single chip can be vs what they mass produce on these types of builds but XT-Es have been out for a while now and they only use the Royal Blues as XTE.

BTW, Love your sump/frag growout tank

[jedimasterben]

Also wish they'd go a little more up-to-date on the LEDs, I know there's some lag time behind what a single chip can be vs what they mass produce on these types of builds but XT-Es have been out for a while now and they only use the Royal Blues as XTE.
The XT-E is only available in white and royal blue. The latest chips from Cree are the XP-G2 white (which is literally less than 5% increase over the XT-E, I don't understand why they are keeping these as separate lines) and the XP-E2 white and color lines. The XP-E2 offer a slightly lower forward voltage on the color LEDs (and no tangible output gain), but lag behind in output on the white and royal blue versus the XT-E.

RapidLED has never been about being the cutting edge - they're about getting the LEDs as cheaply as possible (which means no binning or using older LEDs) and selling kits that don't need a ton of experience to put together. If you're looking for better quality chips, then you gotta look elsewhere.

[djmx2002]

Not a lot of info on that Aurora puck online.... not to mention reviews. Dos anyone have some sort of experience with them, and how they compare to the Lumia 5.2?

[TheRuss]

BUMP!!! Tagging along. I am thinking about lights right now. I want to have great lights on my 220, but not sure what to do. some people around me are saying don't do LED for a mixed reef, but I'm still looking.

[general0]

I'm interested to see more info on this setup! It looks to have pretty good spread over your sump but I want to clarify that you stated it has a par of 50 at the edges? How far or what is the positioning of the light over the tank from the edge? I have been going back and forth between these or just doing a 3w led build. How well do you think two of these would work over a SPS dominant 120g 4ft tank? I saw you have 4 over a 48x48 and stated you would need 1 more in the middle but I have a center brace so putting three over my tank would be no good for that. Would two of these and 4 T5's be enough light for SPS?

[Aqualund]

Actually, I'm doing one for my 120 this weekend that is the dimensions youre talking about. I will have two lumias, and then 24 additional 3w leds...basically to take the role of the t5's you're talking about...to compensate for shading....but yeah I think that would be a great set up for you to do.

[TriNewbie24]

Make sure you post pics when complete, i'd really like to see the spread and pictures of one over an actual tank.

[Fredfish]

Actually, I'm doing one for my 120 this weekend that is the dimensions youre talking about. I will have two lumias, and then 24 additional 3w leds...basically to take the role of the t5's you're talking about...to compensate for shading....but yeah I think that would be a great set up for you to do.
You have my attention!

Are you clustering the fill LEDs? What spectrum are they?

[Aqualund]

I would prefer to cluster them, but Im going try using what I already have to start with...and that's the 1.5" long heatsink. I'm going to just have cree 6500k, cree RB, exotic UV, and exotic blue. I will have them in groups of 4 at the 4 corners and 2 over the center...so basically, each lumia will have "fill" lighting in a square pattern around it. Basically trying to recreate a MH reflector pattern.

Later on, I may just redo the heatsink and make it a cluster...but I wanna see if that's necessary before I buy the new heatsinks.

[Fredfish]

It will be interesting to see the results. I'm curious to see how many clusters you need before you get that reflector effect.

[zachts]

.....and tagging along now.....

[nemonlizzy]

You're freaking nutz dude. I have never seen someone with such a desire to grow some corals. I am following along, and would LOVE to see the code for all of this! Please PM me if you can.

[Aqualund]

Hey nemon, the code is just the Jarduino code...do a search and you'll find it. I claim no credit in doing any coding for this...thank god Jamie did.

Okay so I have the lights hooked up and running. I figured I would post some pictures of the results so people who are curious can get a good idea of what they do. This is a 120 Gallon Tank...so 48"x 24". There are a lot of things to consider in these pictures:

1. The lights are 5 inches above the water. A bit higher, and they would probably light that dark spot on the back middle of the tank just fine, but reduce the par.
2. I have a center brace, obviously, so there is a more dramatic shadow in the center than would be in a braceless tank.
3. I am still waiting on my TFT screen, so this means all channels are running at the same intensity, so I have not mixed these leds to my liking yet. I would like to reduce the white a bit and bring up the greens to reduce some of the purplish hue from the UV's.
4. The blues and whites are only running at 60% intensity. Once again due to the lack of control right now. Everything else is about at 75%
5. One UV channel on the lumias is not running right now because I dont want it to until I can reduce it individually.
6. None of the supplemental leds are using lenses.
7. The par at 12 inches from the surface is a consistent 250-275 pretty much everywhere and then like 65 on the edges. on the sand it is 100-150.
8. I just moved EVERYTHING around in the tank less than a week ago. My monti suffered the most with lots of breaks...but in general not everything is quite happy and some of the rocks have no growth on them. Please dont let this affect your impression of the colors.

Overall, I will definitely be getting new heatsinks and clustering the supplemental leds, and probably getting 4 more groups of them so that each lumia will have 8 clusters in a circle around them.

I can also say that to go to all cree and exotic (top bin) from previously just using the chinese leds is a huge difference in spectral quality. My red planet is fluorescing in colors and areas it never did before. For instance...with a top bin UV's (3535 chip) installed...now on the growth areas of the red dragon it fluoresces a bright peachy orange. It's pretty cool.

FTS
http://i.imgur.com/raAeS0u.png

Under
http://i.imgur.com/9C8Ol3k.jpg

[TriNewbie24]

Looks great IMO, might just have to try them out too

[Fredfish]

Thanks for the pictures. Are the par readings fairly uniform across all areas of the sand or do you find you still have higher and lower light areas?

Overall, I will definitely be getting new heatsinks and clustering the supplemental leds, and probably getting 4 more groups of them so that each lumia will have 8 clusters in a circle around them.
What is it about the current look that makes you want to add more clusters?

[Aqualund]

Thanks for the pictures. Are the par readings fairly uniform across all areas of the sand or do you find you still have higher and lower light areas?


What is it about the current look that makes you want to add more clusters?

Yeah on the sand bed it varies between 150 and 75 in about 3 inch increments...mostly because of the angle of the lights trying to go through all the corals on top. But the 75's are rare...i think there's only 3 spots with 75. I imagine with nothing in the way...it would be a uniform 150 everywhere.

There are a couple of corals that I feel I could hit from a few more angles to completely eliminate any shaded areas...so yeah I definitely want to try some more clusters and see if I can shore that up.

[general0]

Thanks for this information. My 120g is built like yours and that's exactly what I wanted to see!! Do you think the reflectors are needed or would just the led provide enough par at the bottom without them? I'm positive now I'm going to order two of these and use 4 T5's as the supplements to them.

[Aqualund]

depends on what you have at the bottom. If its just lps and zoos than you're fine...but if you have sps all the way to the bottom you'll need reflectors.

[Aqualund]

So I finished adding the cluster leds in all the dead spots to mimic the MH coverage pattern. Overall...I am quite pleased. I have excellent coverage, each channel is individually addressable, and I can achieve any look I want, with very very minimal shading.

Here is the mess that is the wiring and power
http://i.imgur.com/vyeQEEH.jpg

Now the lighting pattern. A mix of natural white 3 up clusters and warm white along the edges with the 470nm blue and UV. The lumias are at the center with these lights on the edge at a lower intensity. Only the lumias have the lenses.

http://i.imgur.com/Ze8Nd9f.jpg

Here is the coverage and color temp. Obviously camera limitations. Oh and please don't judge my coral placement...I'm out of glue...and my hermit crabs are ruthless re-decorators lol.

http://i.imgur.com/t27srRi.jpg

[jean9910]

Wow! I wish I was as knowledgeable on LEDs as you are.

[Aqualund]

Wow! I wish I was as knowledgeable on LEDs as you are.

Ask anything you want, I'd be happy to explain it. Everything I learned I learned from reading other's (zachts, asid, etc) threads on this forums...and then making several, several errors.

[wrangla]

Hi, nice build you've got there, looks stunning!

Just wondering which optics you have and what are they set at?

Cheers

[Aqualund]

Hi, nice build you've got there, looks stunning!

Just wondering which optics you have and what are they set at?

Cheers

The only optics are the ones sold with the lumias...and they are both set at 120. The rest of the leds have no optics.

[clay12340]

That looks really nice. Are the PAR readings much different now that you've modified it? Now that you've put it together what would you have liked to change or done differently?

Could you break down what you've got over the pictured tank? I looked through the thread and it seems like this is just a small part of what you actually purchased.

[AcMonster]

Thanks for the other quality build thread. I'm very much thinking about these clusters. Did you consider the auroras?

[crn005]

You mentioned earlier that you are using greens to tame the purples. I haven't ever heard of that but I'd be curious to check it out. Is that a pretty common rule or just something that people are starting to explore?

[Aqualund]

That looks really nice. Are the PAR readings much different now that you've modified it? Now that you've put it together what would you have liked to change or done differently?

Could you break down what you've got over the pictured tank? I looked through the thread and it seems like this is just a small part of what you actually purchased.

Yes they are a little bit higher, and more uniform across the entire tank. My only thing I don't really like is the aesthetics of the housing...but that's my issue...I need to get better at making it look nice :)

This is what I have over this tank. The rest is being built currently to go over my 500 gallon growout tanks :)
http://i.imgur.com/bp16lOw.jpg

Thanks for the other quality build thread. I'm very much thinking about these clusters. Did you consider the auroras?

Thanks man :) someone asked the same thing earlier in this thread I think. No I didn't because first off I think the NW and WW handle all the red and amber I would need, and secondly the aurora is limited temperature-wise by those red leds...seemed like too much of a headache for me...and more expensive to address.

You mentioned earlier that you are using greens to tame the purples. I haven't ever heard of that but I'd be curious to check it out. Is that a pretty common rule or just something that people are starting to explore?

I dunno if people are...but I am. I hate that purplish look of the UV's, but that's a personal preference. As an avid acan coloration enthusiast, I knew that the best bulb mixtures provided immense UV light and yet still looked good. So I took the bulb spectral maps and superimposed them...and now when I construct my led builds and then tweak them, I aim to mimic that map. You can see that there is a peak in the green and the amber areas. When I emulate this pattern, I have a very pleasing look over the tank, and the acans still retain their coloration without becoming washed out.

But that's my philosophy...it's very anecdotal...and can't be done with the lumias alone...I have to use several lower nm UV leds in conjunction to get this right.

http://i.imgur.com/plYmRDn.jpg

[sfsuphysics]

That's the one thing that annoyed me a bit with the 5.2 Lumia is the "hyper violet" channel has royal blues on it, would have been nice if a violet channel was by itself that way you could tune it as you wish without sacrificing the royal blue. Or more to the point, I love that super dark purplish look an hour or so before all the lights go out, basically the real "actinic" look.

[Aqualund]

you can get them custom from led group buy...and do just like you said...but not until you "justify" your reasoning with milad. I had several emails back and forth on customizing for reasons like that, and in the end just gave in and got them regular.

[iced98lx]

what adhesive did you use to attach the lenses to the 5.2s?

[Aqualund]

what adhesive did you use to attach the lenses to the 5.2s?

2 part arctic alumina adhesive

[iced98lx]

2 part arctic alumina adhesive

I used that for the chip to heat sink didn't think to use it for the lenses. Are the lenses you have adjustable?

[Aqualund]

yeah they screw in and out for adjustment

[Sascha1966]

yeah they screw in and out for adjustment

Hi

Real great looking light? I would like to run a similar test on my tank and looking for the adjustable lens. Where did you got them from ?
What's about the developments of the corals ?

Rgds
Sascha

[Aqualund]

You can find them on ebay...but they are also available right from the led group buy website.

Corals so far are responding very well. When I get my par meter back I am going to tweak the settings even more and see how high I can go...and measure the results.

[Fredfish]

Is that just a single 495 nm led in the center of the fixture? Does it really cover the entire tank? I would have thought you would need multiples of any suplementary colour for uniform coverage throughout the whole tank.

[jedimasterben]

I would like to reduce the white a bit and bring up the greens to reduce some of the purplish hue from the UV's.

The violet LEDs would not be the source of the purple hue - more than likely it is what you're getting when you mix red and blue, in this case the warm white in the Lumia mixing with the royal blue. I had a bank of the 430nm hyper violets - 28x of them at 700mA - over my 80g tank. If only those LEDs had power, the tank of course was purple. If any other channel was on even at 5-10% (neutral white, royal blue, blue, cyan), the purple color vanished. It doesn't take much to overpower even 26 optical watts of violet light.

More higher blue (465-480nm)/cyan eliminates the purple hue, green doesn't do all that great a job, but it does get the job done with enough green light.

[Aqualund]

Is that just a single 495 nm led in the center of the fixture? Does it really cover the entire tank? I would have thought you would need multiples of any suplementary colour for uniform coverage throughout the whole tank.

It covers that section. The lumias have 495's in them as well.


The violet LEDs would not be the source of the purple hue - more than likely it is what you're getting when you mix red and blue, in this case the warm white in the Lumia mixing with the royal blue. I had a bank of the 430nm hyper violets - 28x of them at 700mA - over my 80g tank. If only those LEDs had power, the tank of course was purple. If any other channel was on even at 5-10% (neutral white, royal blue, blue, cyan), the purple color vanished. It doesn't take much to overpower even 26 optical watts of violet light.

More higher blue (465-480nm)/cyan eliminates the purple hue, green doesn't do all that great a job, but it does get the job done with enough green light.

Okay here we go huh?

I'm sorry I didn't clarify what I meant by the "greens" since the lumias nor any of the leds I show on my diagram are true "green" rather they are all 495nm, which is listed as "Turquoise" on the led group buy site.

So with that being said, my best description for the hue which I did not like, was a purplish hue...which was only apparent in a subtle manner when I had my UV channels on...of which I countered with a Turquoise 495nm supplementation from the Lumias.

When I mix the warm whites and the blues, in any ratio, I do not see this hue which I do not like. Therefore, based on this, and your information, the hue I am seeing must not be purple, and rather some other color. regardless, when I increase the % of Turquoise light, this unknown hue is washed away.

So again, I'm so sorry for speaking so cavalier with regard to the proper terms.

[Fredfish]

It covers that section. The lumias have 495's in them as well...
Hmm, I missed that. I thought the Lumia had the 475's. That would be why you have 4 of the 470's then. :o

I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.

[Aqualund]

yeah the lumias have CREE XPE2 Blue which is the 475 I think you're referring to, and then the Turquoise as well.

I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.

Yeah it's a necessity to make the leds do what you want! It's half the fun :)

[zachts]

Lot's of people report the "UV" LEDs in the 405 to 420nm range look very bright pink/purple to them, even in very small amounts. It has to due with our eyes, and everyone's different unique perception to light. Some like very actinic tanks that are heavy on these wavelengths, some can't stand the look. Too each their own, the coral could really care less, anything in adequate amounts in the 420 to 480 range will produce great coral growth. the rest is just up to us to decide what we like to look at!

Me, I perceive low nanometer violets as a pale blue color, barely noticeable if not for the florescence they produce. Many see one UV led in their tank casting a horrible pink or purple color, me I dominate my builds with them because I like the look they produce. There are many accounts in this regard, you simply have to see them and make up your own mind, everyone's eyes are different......

Most flourescent bulbs and MH balance this out pretty well with green and red in the spectrum but LEDs can be very heavy on this end, since the green and red spikes in thier spectrum are less drastic, so you just have to see them to know what you will like.

Again, the coral couldn't care less if it is getting adequate amounts of anything between 420 and 480 it will grow and do fine, the symbiotic zooxanthellae are very adaptable.

:beer:

[zachts]

Hmm, I missed that. I thought the Lumia had the 475's. That would be why you have 4 of the 470's then. :o

I begin to appreciate why the Pacific Sun fixture has 9 channels of control.

It is really just a necessity to cater to the masses with one product since making LED boards has a substantial R&D cost right now. Simply make one that can be "tuned" to fit everyone's taste..... Fluorescent and MH accomplish the same thing by just swamping bulbs until you find the combination you like, It is a little more difficult to simply "swap" LEDs right now but that will change in the next few years!

Best thing to do right now is just look for LED combos that are similar to the spectrum of other lights you like and go with those. Combine the right ones and dimming each channel is not needed. Only problem is that takes a good deal of trial and error for most people.

[crn005]

I enjoy the discussion about the different mixtures getting rid of the purple hue. My tank has a slight purple hue (I don't like the purple look, but mine is very mild and tolerable). I am still a little curious about the effects of the multichip on the disco effect/banding. If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation? I'm curious to see the limit that can be pushed in regards to this issue.

[vpaul79]

I enjoy the discussion about the different mixtures getting rid of the purple hue. My tank has a slight purple hue (I don't like the purple look, but mine is very mild and tolerable). I am still a little curious about the effects of the multichip on the disco effect/banding. If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation? I'm curious to see the limit that can be pushed in regards to this issue.

Ditto that. I'm curious to see the shimmer effect. Please post a video.

[Aqualund]

A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.

Again please dont judge the placement of corals yet...still haven't gotten around to fixing all of that :)

http://youtu.be/YF7SdX7s_WM

[Fredfish]

...
Best thing to do right now is just look for LED combos that are similar to the spectrum of other lights you like and go with those. Combine the right ones and dimming each channel is not needed. Only problem is that takes a good deal of trial and error for most people.
Except that I don't know exactly what I like. The last time I kept corals, I used an Iwasaki MH and that was too yellow. I'm probably leaning towards something in the 10K range. I really don't like the blue look that seems so popular now. It looks very artificial to me.

Seems like a single Lumia to play with is probably the best place to start (don't need to learn to solder first).

[crn005]

A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.


The shimmer wasn't as crisp as I was thinking it would be, but it was also shot with a lower quality camera (no offense) and you had a serious amount of surface turbulence going on. I wish I could see it person! I think that multichips are the future of reef lighting and I can't wait to see some in action in person.

[zachts]

A quick video of the disco...of which I don't think there is any...but you can decide if it meets your standards.

Again please dont judge the placement of corals yet...still haven't gotten around to fixing all of that :)

http://youtu.be/YF7SdX7s_WM

I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......

over all not bad at all but for me the blue shadowing eveing in the static pics would bother me.

could you post a video with only the lumias?

[zachts]

Except that I don't know exactly what I like. The last time I kept corals, I used an Iwasaki MH and that was too yellow. I'm probably leaning towards something in the 10K range. I really don't like the blue look that seems so popular now. It looks very artificial to me.

Seems like a single Lumia to play with is probably the best place to start (don't need to learn to solder first).

my best advice to you is to try and see differnt lights in person before making up your mind.

[crn005]

I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......


Yeah that was something I didn't get from the beginning. Why pay for the single-source lights and then throw in the other LEDs on the side? It defeats the purpose, IMO.

[Aqualund]

When you provide light from an led it radiates out from a point source. So say you have a coral like right underneath that light...it get's the light beams from directly above it. SPS will tend to form their polyps and coloration wherever the light hits them "enough." this is why a lot of led users complain about the "shading" effect where this was not an issue for the MH users.

For MH, there is a reflector there to bounce the light from many different angles...and not only from directly above the coral...but also from an offset at whatever the radius of the reflector is. This minimizes shading and the polyps fully develop on nearly all sides of the SPS coral, making it more attractive, and color more uniformly.

I pointed this out earlier, but the lumias cover a 24x24 area...but there are low par areas at the edge of their 24x24 area...so the supplemental lighting is to provide light from many different angles in a MH-like pattern, and fill in the gaps the lumias dont.

Overall the cost to light my tank is WELL below the industry average for lighting...so adding the extra $80 in the supplemental lighting was a no brainer.

The shimmer wasn't as crisp as I was thinking it would be, but it was also shot with a lower quality camera (no offense) and you had a serious amount of surface turbulence going on. I wish I could see it person! I think that multichips are the future of reef lighting and I can't wait to see some in action in person.


I purposely put the surface like that and showed it at the start of the video....because you asked for it

If possible, could you upload a video of your sand when there's a lot of surface agitation?

[Aqualund]

I still see disco in that video, but it is from you supplemental blue and warm white chips which are spaceced out too far from the lumias, creating thier own point sources......

over all not bad at all but for me the blue shadowing eveing in the static pics would bother me.

could you post a video with only the lumias?

Not anytime soon...it was a stretch for me to do this video!

But I will gladly answer any questions anyone has.

[mhucasey]

Well I wanted to say thanks for posting all that you have done. I feel like you have been pretty upfront with what worked and what didn't work well. I think something like the Lumia chip with multiple chips spread over an array would be an interesting thing to try to replace T5s someday for me.

I have been doing a lot of research and it seems like the trick to properly mimic T5s is to balance red, green, and blue to provide the appearance of white without overdoing the yellow or red. Spreading the chips out over an array would provide the coverage and minimize shading, i would run them individually at lower outputs. When you get a bunch more of these made it would be interesting to see what kind of par they could generate when they are clustered closer together.

[Fredfish]

... When you get a bunch more of these made it would be interesting to see what kind of par they could generate when they are clustered closer together.
A boatload I would imagine. From what Aqualund has done, it looks like 4 to 6 clusters per 24 x 24" area are needed to overcome the point source effect of LEDs.

For some reason or other, all the manufacturers out there like clusters of 20 to 25 LEDs. GHL does use 12 LED clusters. That seems a lot closer to optimum from what I have read to date.

We all owe Aqualund a bit thanks for being the guinea p, um, on the leading edge here. :D

[crn005]

When you provide light from an led it radiates out from a point source. So say you have a coral like right underneath that light...it get's the light beams from directly above it. SPS will tend to form their polyps and coloration wherever the light hits them "enough." this is why a lot of led users complain about the "shading" effect where this was not an issue for the MH users.

For MH, there is a reflector there to bounce the light from many different angles...and not only from directly above the coral...but also from an offset at whatever the radius of the reflector is. This minimizes shading and the polyps fully develop on nearly all sides of the SPS coral, making it more attractive, and color more uniformly.

I pointed this out earlier, but the lumias cover a 24x24 area...but there are low par areas at the edge of their 24x24 area...so the supplemental lighting is to provide light from many different angles in a MH-like pattern, and fill in the gaps the lumias dont.

Overall the cost to light my tank is WELL below the industry average for lighting...so adding the extra $80 in the supplemental lighting was a no brainer.



I purposely put the surface like that and showed it at the start of the video....because you asked for it

I see what you're saying and I can see the value in using the supplemental LEDs. Also, I didn't say it before, but thank you for making the video! I didn't mean to come off as being a jerk :beer:

[thedru13]

Great thread.. My set up is no where near as complex. I have a 65 gallon RedSea Max 250. I am looking to refresh my current set up. I retrofitted LEDs into my hood years ago. Looking to make a change.

I have been researching the Lumia 5.2s.. So was wondering if I keep my existing hood and build with just 2 Lumia 5.2 with five Meanwell LDD drivers and I would use my existing typhoon controller is this going to provide enough lite? My tank has an array of LPS and sps with a few fish. I have poor growth in my tank and the color has been meh at best. Hence why I am looking to go this route.

Let me know your thoughts appreciate any help. Thanks.

[Aqualund]

I think it would provide enough light, but I don't think it would give good enough coverage. I would use one 5.2 in the middle and then like 6 3-up clusters on the edges to give good coverage and omnidirectional light.

[Idefixes]

As i had 3/4 of my led lightning setup (custom DIY multichip full spectrum led) when lumia 5.2 came on market i decided to transpose in multichip the 5.2 configuration. So i order 4 multichip 25w led with 5 chanels. Eache chanel as 5x 45mil chips in it with 15-17V Vf so i can connect in serie 2 of this led and have a better ligth pattern with only 5 LDD driver instead 2x 50W and 10 LDD driver.

The chips distribution is the 5.2 one

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/02/09//14020904011712463311968971.jpg

Leds are under way to home. Here is a picture the factory send me

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/02/22//14022211465712463312004965.jpg

I will power 2x in serie with 5 LDD-350h driver connected on a 36V SMPS unit.

[thedru13]

Thanks Aqualund.. When you say 3-up clusters should I be looking for something specific? Sorry still really very new to this.

I think it would provide enough light, but I don't think it would give good enough coverage. I would use one 5.2 in the middle and then like 6 3-up clusters on the edges to give good coverage and omnidirectional light.

[Aqualund]

As i had 3/4 of my led lightning setup (custom DIY multichip full spectrum led) when lumia 5.2 came on market i decided to transpose in multichip the 5.2 configuration. So i order 4 multichip 25w led with 5 chanels. Eache chanel as 5x 45mil chips in it with 15-17V Vf so i can connect in serie 2 of this led and have a better ligth pattern with only 5 LDD driver instead 2x 50W and 10 LDD driver.

The chips distribution is the 5.2 one



Leds are under way to home. Here is a picture the factory send me



I will power 2x in serie with 5 LDD-350h driver connected on a 36V SMPS unit.

You can drive two Lumias with only 5 ldd's, and have more lumens per watt output compared to your 25w chips.

thedru13

Just do a search for 3 up star cluster...or go specifically to the led group buy site. You'll pay more for their pre-assembly...compared to getting everything yourself and making them yourself...but its still pretty cheap. Just alternate between the royal blue/warm white and royal blue/natural white 3-up clusters. (3 of each)

[thedru13]

Awesome thanks again for your help.. Pricing everything out now. Assuming i would have to solder for this? Was going to try and re use the heat sync i have on there now. Save a few bucks where i can.



thedru13

Just do a search for 3 up star cluster...or go specifically to the led group buy site. You'll pay more for their pre-assembly...compared to getting everything yourself and making them yourself...but its still pretty cheap. Just alternate between the royal blue/warm white and royal blue/natural white 3-up clusters. (3 of each)

[Aqualund]

Sure thing man. oh yeah no need to get a new one....and yeah you'll have to do some soldering.

[Idefixes]

You can drive two Lumias with only 5 ldd's, and have more lumens per watt output compared to your 25w chips.


I know that all but i don't see the need to spend 220$ to for 140W since i don't need more than 40/50W...

Marc

[Aqualund]

I know that all but i don't see the need to spend 220$ to for 140W since i don't need more than 40/50W...

Marc

You're right, I don't either, but it seemed very much like you were comparing the two chips and highlighting how better and cost effective your chips were than the lumias...

Even then, all I was doing was informing you that you can run two lumias with only 5 ldd's, contrary to what you may have first thought:

so i can connect in serie 2 of this led and have a better ligth pattern with only 5 LDD driver instead 2x 50W and 10 LDD driver.

So I'm not sure why you're comparing at all. The chips are not the same...they use 1watt leds, they are probably bridgelux lower grade, the wattage is not the same, etc etc.

You're post seemed more like an advertisement for whatever product you're peddling, rather than a side by side comparison...and even then, like I said, they are incomparable.

[thedru13]

If I wanted to add the storm x controller would i need to add an additional channel or the 5up channel board will be enough?

[Aqualund]

If I wanted to add the storm x controller would i need to add an additional channel or the 5up channel board will be enough?

Dunno man I've never used that one :uhoh2:

[zachts]

If I wanted to add the storm x controller would i need to add an additional channel or the 5up channel board will be enough?

No reason you can't use your typhon controller. Two of the lumia channels are identical so just run them both on the same typhon Pin. The lumia5.2 only has 4 unique color channels. A design flaw in my opinion but that's the way it is.

[zachts]

the storm controller gives you 6 channels of control
the stormX gives you 16 (not many builds need that many)

[thedru13]

Was thinking it would be cool to have the cloud cover option as well as the storm effect. Maybe just being sold on a gimmick. Its such a rats nest in my hood I just want to start fresh and clean..

No reason you can't use your typhon controller. Two of the lumia channels are identical so just run them both on the same typhon Pin. The lumia5.2 only has 4 unique color channels. A design flaw in my opinion but that's the way it is.

[Aqualund]

no reason you can't use your typhon controller. Two of the lumia channels are identical so just run them both on the same typhon pin. The lumia5.2 only has 4 unique color channels. A design flaw in my opinion but that's the way it is.

+1

[zachts]

Was thinking it would be cool to have the cloud cover option as well as the storm effect. Maybe just being sold on a gimmick. Its such a rats nest in my hood I just want to start fresh and clean..

Personally I don't like the lighting effect, it's just kind of weird. The clouds are kind of cool though, but I had to mod the code because by default they happen way, way, too often for my liking. As does the lighting if you have it enabled, I also modified that code to make lightning only happen once in a rare while, but still don't relay care for it, personal preference though.

You would only need the Storm controller, not the StormX i think though. Unless you need more than 6 channels no need to spend the extra money, and honestly if it were me I'd just use what I had on hand. but it's up to you.

The only other advantages of the Storm/StormX would be it has moon light simulation built in, (but you will need a few dedicated LEDs and their own low power LDD driver to make full use of that function.) It also has fan control and temp read out capabilities. though the temp does not control the fans, but it could with some modified code.

[thedru13]

Great info zachts... would rather save a few bucks where i can. already going to re use my heat sync. Maybe I can use my blue LEDs(24 XPE royal blues) now for the moonlites with the controller.

I like the typhoon. I haven't had any issue with it. Its simple and easy to use. Wish it had some more bells and whistles..

Personally I don't like the lighting effect, it's just kind of weird. The clouds are kind of cool though, but I had to mod the code because by default they happen way, way, too often for my liking. As does the lighting if you have it enabled, I also modified that code to make lightning only happen once in a rare while, but still don't relay care for it, personal preference though.

You would only need the Storm controller, not the StormX i think though. Unless you need more than 6 channels no need to spend the extra money, and honestly if it were me I'd just use what I had on hand. but it's up to you.

The only other advantages of the Storm/StormX would be it has moon light simulation built in, (but you will need a few dedicated LEDs and their own low power LDD driver to make full use of that function.) It also has fan control and temp read out capabilities. though the temp does not control the fans, but it could with some modified code.

[zachts]

Great info zachts... would rather save a few bucks where i can. already going to re use my heat sync. Maybe I can use my blue LEDs(24 XPE royal blues) now for the moonlites with the controller.

I like the typhoon. I haven't had any issue with it. Its simple and easy to use. Wish it had some more bells and whistles..

24 leds will be way too bright for moon lights. I have a StormX and am right now using a blue channel with 6 luxeon blues driven at 550mA as the moon lights but I have to have them dimmed down to a max of 60 out of the total 4095 steps for use as moon light, which severely limits the resolution of the moon light function. A dedicated moon light channel is the way to go if using the Storm controller as it only has 255 steps of resolution and you would not be able to dim them enough to use you main LEDs for moon light. It is possible on the StormX but severely limits the moon light effect resolution.

For a basic moon light effect you could simply use two or so LEDs driven at 350mA that are just on all the time. Or on a lamp timer if you want a period of total darkness at night.

[thedru13]

Yah wasn't going to use all 24..... LOL. Was going to keep a few to see how it worked out. As you can tell I am not very good at this yet.

[Aqualund]

Today I got my par meter back and dis some measurements. There were patches that either didnt show up before or I didn't notice before of 400-600 par. For this it was the area where the lumia beam and the supplemental lights overlapped. I removed the lenses to get a more uniform pattern and to blur those lines more evenly, and it worked great.

Im still getting 250-300 par now, and that's with all channels less than 80% and the white less than 50% and no lenses. Sandbed is 50-125 par. I will start here and increase over time if needed.

[Fredfish]

Aqualund. Now that you have removed the optics, have you run just the Lumias to see how the light spread differs from what it did with the optics?

[Aqualund]

Yup...obviously there is larger spread...but yeah I still needed the supplemental along the edge.

[Fredfish]

So two Lumias is not sufficient to cover a 24 x 48" area. If you had 3, would it cover or is 24" simply too wide for a single chip? I think I know the answer, but I'm a certified pedant, so I gotta ask. :D

[Aqualund]

Well technically it covers it. There is coverage. I would say...at the middle of a 24x24 area with the par being 300, the edges will be about 75...those numbers just represent the ratio.

My thing is that if you have sps coral you need the multiple point sources and the 300 all the way to the edge...so thats where even if you had 3 in a row the edges would still be 75..but thats a preference thing I guess.

[Fredfish]

Well technically it covers it. There is coverage. I would say...at the middle of a 24x24 area with the par being 300, the edges will be about 75...those numbers just represent the ratio.

My thing is that if you have sps coral you need the multiple point sources and the 300 all the way to the edge...so thats where even if you had 3 in a row the edges would still be 75..but thats a preference thing I guess.
Its the multiple point sources that has me wondering. Some people complain that tanks lit with LED cannons (multichips) have too much contrast between lit and shaded areas.

Its time for me to start my own thread with all the thoughts I have rattling round between my ears. :)

Thanks for answering all my questions.

[machote]

I have a 32" deep tank x 92 lenght how many of this fixtures i would need?

[machote]

I forgot i want to keep sps

[Aqualund]

If you do just the fixtures, I would do at least 4 and then surround each of these with 4 3-up clusters 12 inches from the center of each fixture. This is minimum.

[RustyPressnall]

Wow, what a great build.

I have a 48Lx18Dx22H 80g mixed reef with a RapidLED dimmable kit and a Typhon controller on it. I'm thinking about upgrading to something like your Lumia 5.2's with clusters idea. Would you mind posting a rundown on which drivers are running which chips?

I have a center brace too, so I'm thinking 1 Lumia plus clusters on a 12" heat sink for each side of the brace. Probably no optics, I'll only be about six inches off the water. Part of the logic for the clusters is I'm not sure if just 2 Lumia 5.2's will be enough light.

I'm pretty excited about a new build, when I did my current one the color choices in high power chips was pretty slim and as time goes by I feel like the tank doesn't POP as much as it did with my old 8x54W T5's.

Thanks for taking the time to document your build. It's people like you who are willing to share their experience that make this hobby so much less frustrating for the new folks.

Kind regards,

R

[Aqualund]

Thanks for all the kind words Rusty :) As far as drivers...I'm using all Meanwell ldd-h drivers...700mA and 1000mA varieties :)

[sparky45]

I just finished my lumia 5.2 build. I used the storm x for my controller. I went with the 12in makers heat sink. I only have one fan but I'm thinking of getting another just for extra heat transfer. These things are bright.

[djmx2002]

Would love to see what kind of light placement you are going to do on your 500g system, I got 265 gallon tank which I am trying to decide how to luminate.

[jamesbm1001]

I have a quick question for you regarding LED multi chip arrays such as the lumia. I have been looking at different ways to construct an LED system for a 180 that I'm setting up and would like to do it both as efficiently and inexpensively as possible...two ideas that seem to often be at odds with each other. The lumia looks to be a great option as it provides a significant number of high quality LEDs in a small package. But with all the channels being individually addressable, it requires multiple drivers. if one were to take 24 cree LEDs, and run them in series/parallel 3 parallel 8 LED strings, and where at each -/+ bridge all the led's shared a common rail, would it be possible to avoid voltage and current being shared unequally? That is to say, would the differences in vF be negated?

http://s63.photobucket.com/user/Morty1001/media/ledprototype_zpsc1eebbfd.png.html

[jamesbm1001]

http://s63.photobucket.com/user/Morty1001/media/ledprototype_zpsc1eebbfd.png.html

[jamesbm1001]

That didn't quite work how I wanted, but in any case if you can see the picture via the link, the red is positive input, the black is the negative, and the blue bars represent a continuous bridge from positive to negative in each string and from side to side connecting the 3 strings at each junction.

[jedimasterben]

I have a quick question for you regarding LED multi chip arrays such as the lumia. I have been looking at different ways to construct an LED system for a 180 that I'm setting up and would like to do it both as efficiently and inexpensively as possible...two ideas that seem to often be at odds with each other. The lumia looks to be a great option as it provides a significant number of high quality LEDs in a small package. But with all the channels being individually addressable, it requires multiple drivers. if one were to take 24 cree LEDs, and run them in series/parallel 3 parallel 8 LED strings, and where at each -/+ bridge all the led's shared a common rail, would it be possible to avoid voltage and current being shared unequally? That is to say, would the differences in vF be negated?

http://s63.photobucket.com/user/Morty1001/media/ledprototype_zpsc1eebbfd.png.html
The voltage needs to be as exactly equal as possible or current will vary wildly across each string. LDD are less than $7.50 apiece, and even cheaper than that if you can wait more than a week or two lead time, parallel strings just don't make sense anymore.

[Aqualund]

yeah in theory it would still "work," but it wouldn't be anywhere near optimum performance, or achieve any gain aside from just being able to do it., plus there is no protection from thermal runaway on this circuit...so you'd need to add some transistors and load balancing in there to account for it...meaning more loss of energy.

So yeah it would work...but it wouldn't be the best choice.

[jedimasterben]

As long as the LEDs were on the same heatsink, though, the thermal runaway shouldn't be much of an issue, the heat load should be pretty balanced.

[jamesbm1001]

I'm not trying to argue I just want to make sure I understand because in my mind it would work, but sometimes I oversimplify. Were you able to see the image? It's the first time I've attempted to use photo bucket or post a picture so there is definitely no guarantee I did it right. But if you have 3 rows of LEDs and 8 LEDs per string, and the current is applied across the 3 rows, the current would be shared evenly correct? So if the next junction where you would normally bridge only the string from - to +, you connect all of these solder pads together, that is the 3 negative pads from the first LED in each string and the the 3 positive pads of the next LED in the string, you'd be back the the same initial current at the start of the of the second row right? So if any single LED failed, the neighboring LEDs in that row of 3 would split the extra current between them, but the rest of the strings would be unaffected. Also you don't have to worry about balancing the vF of the strings because you're basically making a 3 led parallel connection at each junction, and you just repeat it 8 times. At least that's my theory...now please tell me why it won't work. :hmm5:

[jedimasterben]

I'm not trying to argue I just want to make sure I understand because in my mind it would work, but sometimes I oversimplify. Were you able to see the image? It's the first time I've attempted to use photo bucket or post a picture so there is definitely no guarantee I did it right. But if you have 3 rows of LEDs and 8 LEDs per string, and the current is applied across the 3 rows, the current would be shared evenly correct? So if the next junction where you would normally bridge only the string from - to +, you connect all of these solder pads together, that is the 3 negative pads from the first LED in each string and the the 3 positive pads of the next LED in the string, you'd be back the the same initial current at the start of the of the second row right? So if any single LED failed, the neighboring LEDs in that row of 3 would split the extra current between them, but the rest of the strings would be unaffected. Also you don't have to worry about balancing the vF of the strings because you're basically making a 3 led parallel connection at each junction, and you just repeat it 8 times. At least that's my theory...now please tell me why it won't work. :hmm5:

If the voltage is exactly identical across each string, only then will the current across each be the same. If you're using any different LEDs across each, the voltage will vary and so will current.

If an LED in a string fails, 9/10 they fail open, meaning that current will cease across that string, and the remaining two strings will then share the total current. Voltage isn't divided up among LEDs unless you're using a constant voltage power source (you should be using constant current), the LED driver will automatically adjust the output voltage to match what is necessary for the string to strike, this is another reason the voltage must be identical.

[zachts]

In your three parallel string scenario it will work fine as long as you have some safety in place to allow for one string getting more current than another (and they will, even if all LEDs are the same make model and bin number) the voltage of each LED varries a bit from one to the next so each string will not get the exact same current. This is fine as long as you have a device in place like a current mirror to hold the strings current in check, or if you use three strings of lets say cree xte that can handle 1500mA and you only run the three parrelel strings at a total of 1500mA then each strings will see roughly 500mA but if one strings gets more it won't matter. And further more if two strings fail open it still won't matter. However you would never want to run this set up above 1500mA unless you had some control in place or just didn't care if one string fails and takes the whole arrray with it (not likely but it does happen if you look back at all the very early parallel LED builds on RC).

The down side is you lose out on nearly 2/3 of the potential light this array "could" produce if each string were on it's own 1500mA driver, however it would last just about forever on a good heatsink.

[zachts]

If you want' to run lumias via a paralell array I would strongly suggest current mirrors, I've used them and they are not all that ineffecient or hard to build but only make sense on HUGE builds.

[jedimasterben]

In the days when an LDD is a fuzz over $7 if you want it now, I still don't understand running things in parallel on different drivers :)

[zachts]

In the days when an LDD is a fuzz over $7 if you want it now, I still don't understand running things in parallel on different drivers :)

imagine a massive array of all royal blues for a very large tank, You could run 8 or more strings of 14-16 royalblues off a single HLG type driver using some very, very simple current mirrors, and it greatly reduces the number of components and space the whole thing takes up. (or more likely a whole bunch of luxeon k16 royal blues.....) But gennerally speaking yes, there are not many applications any more where parrelel still makes a strong case. (I do still use them often though for cheap budget builds where I only wont one cheap arse ELN driver but need 34 plus royal blues or Reds(in the case of freshwater) and only have the space for one driver or the need for the whole driver/PSU assembly to be near water proof as is the ELN driver, for mounting somewhere it's likely to get wet like under a tank near the sump.....

there is also a good place for uber cheap grow out builds.....

[jamesbm1001]

My idea isn't due to a space limitation or a price point limitation. I was looking at the 3 parallel strings for 2 reasons, at 1500mA total current running the XT-E's for efficiency and long life of the LED. My other thought is that by connecting the 3 strings not only at the beginning and the end of each string but at every junction along the length of the strings, if one LED in any string were to fail, the rest of the string would stay on. In theory, the two LEDs at the same row in the other two strings would then share the extra current until I could replace the dead LED. The second idea is where I'm not sure if I'm just out of my mind or not as I don't really know if it would work.

[zachts]

My idea isn't due to a space limitation or a price point limitation. I was looking at the 3 parallel strings for 2 reasons, at 1500mA total current running the XT-E's for efficiency and long life of the LED. My other thought is that by connecting the 3 strings not only at the beginning and the end of each string but at every junction along the length of the strings, if one LED in any string were to fail, the rest of the string would stay on. In theory, the two LEDs at the same row in the other two strings would then share the extra current until I could replace the dead LED. The second idea is where I'm not sure if I'm just out of my mind or not as I don't really know if it would work.

there is no reason your second idea won't work, but it would be impractical for a DIY and is getting way beyond and off the topic of this thread.

[jamesbm1001]

Agreed and apologies, I did not want to get off topic as much as I have

[mkj]

I'm looking to run 3 Lumia 5.2 in a triangle pattern, on a 50Gallon quarter circle. Would the 250w 48v 5.2a PS work for 3 Lumia 5.2? cheers. I also need to run 10 ldd sense 5 ldd will only run 2 Lumia.

[Aqualund]

No, if you use all 700mA drivers you need at minimum 7 Amps to run at full power...so You need something ore along the lines of the 10 Amp PSU to be safe. Buut....you may not need 100% capability.

[jedimasterben]

You'd be right at capacity on the 250w power supply, you'd be using 210w of it, and you always want to leave at least 20% unused wattage of the power supply.

I'd really recommend the Meanwell HLG series though - you could get away with the HLG-240H-48 since they are made like drivers and can be run closer to their capacity.

The LDD drivers, in a nushell, convert excess voltage on the string into drive current, so running two Lumia channels on one LDD uses around 36v - on a 48v power supply, the LDD outputs 45v, so you have 9v leftover that is 'converted' to current, so instead of the LDD pulling the full 700mA rating, it will only pull 560mA (but will still output 700mA to the LEDs. I hope that makes sense the way that I explained it.

[thedru13]

With the 5.2 you need at least 2 1000ma drivers. Not sure you would need 3 5.2s for your set up. Seems like a lot. They are pretty powerful. I run 2 for my 65g tank.

[zachts]

Just throwing this out @mkj
Have you figured the total watts consumed by your three lumia using thier specs at the desired drive current. Using LDD drivers you only need to worry about maximum string volts to size the supply for the highest volt string + 3 volts to be safe. Then figure the total watts and add 20%.

I don't have the time to do the math at the moment but it may work out to be much less than you think......

[zachts]

actually HLG-240H-48 can run AT OR BELOW rated capacity! as they are designed to deliver full voltage and wattage at a specific amp ratting........

[jedimasterben]

actually HLG-240H-48 can run AT OR BELOW rated capacity! as they are designed to deliver full voltage and wattage at a specific amp ratting........

#winning



lol

[wilsonreefs]

Aqualund,
You guys are way over my head haha..... I have a 240 gal reef setup that is 8' long x 24" x 25". I am currently using MH's and I want to go to led's. I have 4 2'x2' openings that I could hang a led fixture over. Could you suggest a setup and how to build? I was thinking with the Lumina (I think) could you use a 6" x 6" heat sink or does it need to be bigger. I saw where you used clusters on the outskirts of the main led. I like the Kessil's lights they're just expensive. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Carl

[oreo57]

The LDD drivers, in a nushell, convert excess voltage on the string into drive current, so running two Lumia channels on one LDD uses around 36v - on a 48v power supply, the LDD outputs 45v, so you have 9v leftover that is 'converted' to current, so instead of the LDD pulling the full 700mA rating, it will only pull 560mA (but will still output 700mA to the LEDs. I hope that makes sense the way that I explained it.


At first read that made no sense.. but I guess if you consider the LDD will increase or decrease the V to maintain a specific current ,even as resistance in the LED's changes (which it does in a confusing way AFAICT) then I guess it "converts" volts to amps.. ;)
current= voltage/resistance
voltage = resistance*current

not sure where you are getting the 560mA from ...
Never too old to learn though...

[mkj]

thanks Thedru13. Yah 3 is a lot but its a 50 gallon quarter circle so not sure 2 will cover the complicated shape. But I am leaning towards doing 2 first and then deciding if 3rd is needed.

Thanks Zachts & jedimasterben; not sure the HLG-240H-48 would work because I need five channels not one and the HLG-240H-48 is way too expensive for that setup.

thanks Aqualand; not sure about your math but others can correct me if I'm wrong. sense 2 will run on 180w 48v 3.75A (which most people are using) with room to spare it seems the 250w 48v 5.2a should work for 3 but will be maxed. so I agree with jedimasterben that the 250w 48v 5.2a should be ok sense I will be able to use it for two 5.2s and if I need the third I can add without needing a new PS just need more LDDs

[oreo57]

thanks Thedru13. Yah 3 is a lot but its a 50 gallon quarter circle so not sure 2 will cover the complicated shape. But I am leaning towards doing 2 first and then deciding if 3rd is needed.

Thanks Zachts & jedimasterben; not sure the HLG-240H-48 would work because I need five channels not one and the HLG-240H-48 is way too expensive for that setup.

thanks Aqualand; not sure about your math but others can correct me if I'm wrong. sense 2 will run on 180w 48v 3.75A (which most people are using) with room to spare it seems the 250w 48v 5.2a should work for 3 but will be maxed. so I agree with jedimasterben that the 250w 48v 5.2a should be ok sense I will be able to use it for two 5.2s and if I need the third I can add without needing a new PS just need more LDDs

Working unit:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2405385

Running 3 in series and you need a 57V power supply @ 92W and yes 5.2A.... LDD out is max 52V.. You "probably" could get all 3 to light @ 48V PS (assuming a v(f) of 3V) at reduced output... say 500mA

Bottom line seems that 3 in series is "doable" but maybe not exactly what you want re: luminous intensity.. but I'd suspect it to be fairly "efficient"..

I'm curious to see if anyone ran 3 this way..and the results.. after all this is one PS 5 drivers and 3 5.2's...........Why consider it?? yes 10 LDD's are only $70 and probably another $20-$30 for the beefier PS..

The luminous flux difference is fairly high from "base" mA on up to max (roughly 125% vs 230% lf).. but if the difference is between 2 at "max" or 3 @ sub-max it seems like a wash............

Actually looking at ht specs you have 100mA is only 3.2V.. making you highest 3 puck channel needing only 51V still keeping you in the limits of the LDD...

Bottom line now seems to be.. w a 54-56V ps you can run 3 pucks in series w/ max @1000mA single driver (700's should be no problem) .. the watts ect you can figure out..

anyone agree????

I suppose the biggest problem is finding a reasonably priced power supply that big..V wise



sorry just trying to verify my own understanding of this.. Gets "funky" when you talk "suspected" volts vs actual volts..

[jener8tionx]

Oreo: Do you have an opinion on whther one of these would work for powering two Lumias:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201085321776?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

This seems like a pretty good price if so.

[jedimasterben]

At first read that made no sense.. but I guess if you consider the LDD will increase or decrease the V to maintain a specific current ,even as resistance in the LED's changes (which it does in a confusing way AFAICT) then I guess it "converts" volts to amps.. ;)
current= voltage/resistance
voltage = resistance*current

not sure where you are getting the 560mA from ...
Never too old to learn though...
"Convert excess volts to amps" is layman's terms for what it is doing, but that way people understand it easier :)

The 560mA is what an LDD-700 is actually pulling from the power supply if you are powering 36v of LEDs and the power supply is 48v. The LEDs use 36v, the LDD loses ~3v in the conversion, totaling to 39v out of 48v - 39/48 = 81.25%, and 81.25% of 700mA is 568.7mA (the 560 was just a round number :) ).

Oreo: Do you have an opinion on whther one of these would work for powering two Lumias:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201085321776?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

This seems like a pretty good price if so.
It has plenty of wattage - but it can't run two 5.2 from an LDD in series. The Lumia will use ~18v per string per chip, totaling to ~36v, and the LDD loses ~3v in conversion, so you must have a power supply that is 39-40v minimum. That particular model you can adjust the voltage output, but it's up in the air on how much it can be adjusted.

[sfsuphysics]

It has plenty of wattage - but it can't run two 5.2 from an LDD in series. The Lumia will use ~18v per string per chip, totaling to ~36v, and the LDD loses ~3v in conversion, so you must have a power supply that is 39-40v minimum. That particular model you can adjust the voltage output, but it's up in the air on how much it can be adjusted.

But at $13 a pop seems to make a lot of sense to use one of them per Lumia, I have a couple SP-320s I use for my PSUs and I already lost one of them due to corrosion because humid air infiltrated the unit... and it wasn't even in the same room!

Also makes me wonder what the heck is wrong with them at that price.

[jener8tionx]

The spec sheet says they can go up to 41V

http://www.meanwell.com/search/CLG-150/CLG-150-spec.pdf

[jedimasterben]

But at $13 a pop seems to make a lot of sense to use one of them per Lumia, I have a couple SP-320s I use for my PSUs and I already lost one of them due to corrosion because humid air infiltrated the unit... and it wasn't even in the same room!

Also makes me wonder what the heck is wrong with them at that price.
There isn't anything wrong with them. That seller purchases old stock for a stupid low price and then resells it for a bit higher. The CLG were replaced by the HLG, and the place they bought them from must have seen everyone move towards HLG.

The spec sheet says they can go up to 41V

http://www.meanwell.com/search/CLG-150/CLG-150-spec.pdf
I would imagine it's kinda like the Meanwell ELN-60 - on the 48v model, spec sheet says it can be adjusted from 43.2-52.8v. I had some that I could adjust to 50v and some that I could adjust to 57v.

[jener8tionx]

I tested my CLG-150-36A I bought from that seller (I bought a couple) and they go as high as 42.45 volts with no load.

[sfsuphysics]

There isn't anything wrong with them. That seller purchases old stock for a stupid low price and then resells it for a bit higher. The CLG were replaced by the HLG, and the place they bought them from must have seen everyone move towards HLG.

Well damn him, why doesn't he have the more useful 48V versions :D

[jedimasterben]

Well damn him, why doesn't he have the more useful 48V versions :D
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hzy3zNQ0OrA/U2-nUbBgBEI/AAAAAAAALiY/XczuBGOtNFo/s480/watch%2520the%2520world%2520burn.gif



:lol:

[oreo57]

"Convert excess volts to amps" is layman's terms for what it is doing, but that way people understand it easier :)

The 560mA is what an LDD-700 is actually pulling from the power supply if you are powering 36v of LEDs and the power supply is 48v. The LEDs use 36v, the LDD loses ~3v in the conversion, totaling to 39v out of 48v - 39/48 = 81.25%, and 81.25% of 700mA is 568.7mA (the 560 was just a round number :) ).




Yea I figured that much.. but in regards to the other thing.. Personally I would have looked at it as @36V out 700mA the LDD is at 39V..
36/39 * 700mA = 646mA.. ???
what's the current draw from the power supply to the LDD Vin+ (should be same as Vin-.. but whatever). The data sheet states 900mA (at full load) on the 1000mA version, and I'm having a friendly discussion with someone about what the power supply requirements are needed.

http://166.78.194.232/forums/showthread.php?t=2222702&page=30
IF that thread is correct my way of looking at it is correct .. really v(out)/v(out)+3 * mA = current needs from the ps...
36/39 * 1000 = 923mA..
Doesn't really matter much though.. as long as the design is built around the "out" parameters.. the LDD will not even factor in..

[jener8tionx]

"Convert excess volts to amps" is layman's terms for what it is doing, but that way people understand it easier :)

It has plenty of wattage - but it can't run two 5.2 from an LDD in series. The Lumia will use ~18v per string per chip, totaling to ~36v, and the LDD loses ~3v in conversion, so you must have a power supply that is 39-40v minimum. That particular model you can adjust the voltage output, but it's up in the air on how much it can be adjusted.

I have been running my two Lumia 5.2's for a couple days with the CLG-150-36A. It looks to be holding strong. the power supply gets warm, but no warmer than my 48v supply. Also, those power supplies are back on ebay if you search by part number. I bought a few extra so I have backups!

[jedimasterben]

I have been running my two Lumia 5.2's for a couple days with the CLG-150-36A. It looks to be holding strong. the power supply gets warm, but no warmer than my 48v supply. Also, those power supplies are back on ebay if you search by part number. I bought a few extra so I have backups!
Unless you adjusted the voltage on the power supply up, you're pulling too much voltage from the LDD and will damage them or the LEDs - an expensive risk.

[jener8tionx]

Unless you adjusted the voltage on the power supply up, you're pulling too much voltage from the LDD and will damage them or the LEDs - an expensive risk.

I have the voltage adjusted to 42 volts.

[zachts]

Unless you adjusted the voltage on the power supply up, you're pulling too much voltage from the LDD and will damage them or the LEDs - an expensive risk.

You can't "pull" voltage out of the LDD or the CLG beyond the CLG set point, it will simply not supply more than it is set to, and if not enough voltage is available for the string of LEDs and the ~3volt drop of the LDD the LEDs will simply not light up or more likely just iluminate very dimly as governed by the available voltage..........

Won't hurt anything. Just won't work.

[jener8tionx]

You can't "pull" voltage out of the LDD or the CLG beyond the CLG set point, it will simply not supply more than it is set to, and if not enough voltage is available for the string of LEDs and the ~3volt drop of the LDD the LEDs will simply not light up or more likely just iluminate very dimly as governed by the available voltage..........

Won't hurt anything. Just won't work.

To add to this, when I adjusted the voltage down from max (42V) at one point the LEDs would get super dim and then as I kept lowering, they would simply go out. When I have some time, I will try to get some better measurements. Either way, for $13 shipped, these power supplies (CLG-150-36A) work and are an awesome price.

[oreo57]

To add to this, when I adjusted the voltage down from max (42V) at one point the LEDs would get super dim and then as I kept lowering, they would simply go out. When I have some time, I will try to get some better measurements. Either way, for $13 shipped, these power supplies (CLG-150-36A) work and are an awesome price.

Yes the V(f) range is narrow....Your pretty well all set..

[jedimasterben]

You can't "pull" voltage out of the LDD or the CLG beyond the CLG set point, it will simply not supply more than it is set to, and if not enough voltage is available for the string of LEDs and the ~3volt drop of the LDD the LEDs will simply not light up or more likely just iluminate very dimly as governed by the available voltage..........

Won't hurt anything. Just won't work.

I've blown a couple of LPC drivers connecting too much to them, the LEDs were very dim, then went out, and I was never able to get the driver to power on again, the LEDs were all fine with other drivers though.

[oreo57]

I've blown a couple of LPC drivers connecting too much to them, the LEDs were very dim, then went out, and I was never able to get the driver to power on again, the LEDs were all fine with other drivers though.

Interesting.. I'd be curious as to the exact setup that caused this. I do know you can blow LED's by a "hot" string disconnect and reconnect because the driver tries to output max "I" by ramping the voltage up.. When you reconnect you can over-volt the LED's burning them out.. (at least that is how I understand this)

[jedimasterben]

Interesting.. I'd be curious as to the exact setup that caused this. I do know you can blow LED's by a "hot" string disconnect and reconnect because the driver tries to output max "I" by ramping the voltage up.. When you reconnect you can over-volt the LED's burning them out.. (at least that is how I understand this)
Was using a string of Rebels, I think it was just over 53v worth of them (the LPC I have max out at 48v). I always connect everything after making sure the driver does not have power, I don't hot swap anything.

[mkj]

please clear something up for me if using the (CLG-150-36A) on Lumia 5.2.

Are you putting all the channels together or dimming separately? Sorry for the newb question.

[jedimasterben]

please clear something up for me if using the (CLG-150-36A) on Lumia 5.2.

Are you putting all the channels together or dimming separately? Sorry for the newb question.
The power supply and dimming are two different things completely.

[zachts]

I've blown a couple of LPC drivers connecting too much to them, the LEDs were very dim, then went out, and I was never able to get the driver to power on again, the LEDs were all fine with other drivers though.

I don't use the LPC for much do they not have over voltage protection built in like the CLG? I would think that they should and would simply shut down until the over voltage situation is corrected, but then that model is only a constant current driver where the CLG is both CC and CV output.

Edit: I think this is the issue with the LPC "clamping by zener diode" for over voltage protection. As I understand it that means the driver self destructs since you can't get in there to replace the diode. A safety feature against electrocution I suppose........ I could be wrong though. according to data sheet it kicks in between 50 and 60 volts so it would be a crap shoot to try and push it over 48 volts. might work or might be a $20 gamble........

The CLG resets after power off when over voltage occurs.

[zachts]

Interesting.. I'd be curious as to the exact setup that caused this. I do know you can blow LED's by a "hot" string disconnect and reconnect because the driver tries to output max "I" by ramping the voltage up.. When you reconnect you can over-volt the LED's burning them out.. (at least that is how I understand this)

this can be prevented on a CLG by lowering the Vout to only what is needed thus preventing over voltage output to the LDD and thus to the LED string, making them possible to "hot swap" though I wouldn't recommend it.

[sfsuphysics]

please clear something up for me if using the (CLG-150-36A) on Lumia 5.2.

Are you putting all the channels together or dimming separately? Sorry for the newb question.

I believe most people are using the CLG as a DC power source, not as a current driver (although I think it could also do that) and that the drivers they are using (LDD are the cheap awesome ones out there) are where the dimming aspects come into play.

That said, the Lumia 5.2 is setup to have 5 separate channels, although 2 are identical LEDs, it would almost be a waste to tie all the channels together, and if you do you need to be careful because a few of the channels can not handle as much current.

And as Jedi said, dimming is separate from tying together, you could tie them all together and dim them as one unit. Or keep them as 5 units and dim each individually, or you could do simple on/off with no dimming if you desire.

[jener8tionx]

please clear something up for me if using the (CLG-150-36A) on Lumia 5.2.

Are you putting all the channels together or dimming separately? Sorry for the newb question.

You can see my build here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2405385

I hope that answers your question.

[oreo57]

this can be prevented on a CLG by lowering the Vout to only what is needed thus preventing over voltage output to the LDD and thus to the LED string, making them possible to "hot swap" though I wouldn't recommend it.

good to know.. from what I gathered most of the time this happened is people testing Amp draw.. using an in line meter.. meter probe disconnects and they put it back on.. poof.. ;)
Clamp meters are arguably inaccurate.. ;)

One of the reasons to use a series resistor/ v drop and math.. to check current.. ;)

[zachts]

good to know.. from what I gathered most of the time this happened is people testing Amp draw.. using an in line meter.. meter probe disconnects and they put it back on.. poof.. ;)
Clamp meters are arguably inaccurate.. ;)

One of the reasons to use a series resistor/ v drop and math.. to check current.. ;)

Indeed, the reason most use the preffered method of 1ohm resistor (with 1% or better tollerance) and a pair of screw terminals, No math needed then, just voltage accross resistor equals drive current. Also no connections to come lose during testing.

[jvilla58]

I have one simple question you guys. Would 4 of these be suitable for 6ft tank, 18" wide. That is all. I have looked everywhere but have not found an answer.

[oreo57]

I have one simple question you guys. Would 4 of these be suitable for 6ft tank, 18" wide. That is all. I have looked everywhere but have not found an answer.

"Expect to use only 1-2 of these high performance LEDs per 24x24x24 area in most scenarios"

(6X12)/ 24 = 3
sure..
;)

[jvilla58]

(6X12)/ 24 = 3
sure..
;)ugh I knew that part. I guess I was asking is of it would be enough for sps and such things. Common now Mr Oreo I am not the dumb ;)

[oreo57]

ugh I knew that part. I guess I was asking is of it would be enough for sps and such things. Common now Mr Oreo I am not the dumb ;)

Didn't mean to imply that at all.. Your question was "generic" w/ no defined parameters.. I gave you a generic answer.. ;)

its a large diverse world and I prefer not to "as-u-me" anything.. ;)

[jvilla58]

Didn't mean to imply that at all.. Your question was "generic" w/ no defined parameters.. I gave you a generic answer.. ;)

its a large diverse world and I prefer not to "as-u-me" anything.. ;)

Okay okay I got you. Well that helped actually so thank you. A golden star for you.

[Aqualund]

Okay, so I've survived a double lightning strike, but my Lumias did not. So I took this opportunity to redo the wiring on the system since the old wiring was pretty bad.

But yeah the tree outside the coral farm got struck by lightning twice. This wiped out 25 ldd's, 2 psu's, 7 lumia chips (where the leds actually fused within and still allowed for continuity...so like 3 out of 5 would work), 3 ldd boards, and my arduino.

So the most current revision to hooking everything does away with the rca jacks and uses cat 5 cable connected to 15-pin jacks. Works pretty good, more reliable, and a lot easier to work with. But still too many hours to make the cost savings worth it imho.

I've also started supplementing all of my led systems over sps with either t5 or halides with 6500k bulbs.

<iframe class="imgur-album" width="100%" height="550" frameborder="0" src="http://imgur.com/a/fmQiM/embed"></iframe>

[Fredfish]

Okay, so I've survived a double lightning strike, but my Lumias did not. So I took this opportunity to redo the wiring on the system since the old wiring was pretty bad.
Wow, sorry to hear about the lightening strike. :(

I've also started supplementing all of my led systems over sps with either t5 or halides with 6500k bulbs.

I'm curious to know why you are doing that. Is it the quality of the LED light? Uneven coverage? ...

How are you finding the colour of your corals after being under LED for a while now?

[Aqualund]

Wow, sorry to hear about the lightening strike. :(

I'm curious to know why you are doing that. Is it the quality of the LED light? Uneven coverage? ...

How are you finding the colour of your corals after being under LED for a while now?

The quality of the light is just fine. The coverage is "fine," light is getting there and in a nice spread, but the angles of light are not sufficient to promote good coloration and polyp growth on more surfaces of the sps.

As for coloration, well the the only issues im having with coloration of sps under just led is with acroapora variants like roscoes blue, ponape rainbow, bpg, or like my enchinatas. There is just no comparing the colors of these types under the 6500k from a mh or T5 to the leds, and I've tried every variant of color mixing and intensity that is available right now.

Other sps like millipora and monti's and even most hardy acros color up just fine and there is no difference. It seems that just the more striking and particular coloration have been difficult to attain under nearly every brand of leds I've tried to date.

So I supplement :)

[Fredfish]

The quality of the light is just fine. The coverage is "fine," light is getting there and in a nice spread, but the angles of light are not sufficient to promote good coloration and polyp growth on more surfaces of the sps.

Sounds like its visually fine, but there is not enough light hitting the under side of your corals? I'm a little surprised at this because you actually added a bunch of supplemental clusters.


As for coloration, well the the only issues im having with coloration of sps under just led is with acroapora variants like roscoes blue, ponape rainbow, bpg, or like my enchinatas. There is just no comparing the colors of these types under the 6500k from a mh or T5 to the leds, and I've tried every variant of color mixing and intensity that is available right now.

Interesting. Current LEDs seem to have less Violet (400 - 445) and blue above 450 than MH bulbs like the Radium 14K or the current T5s on offer. I see that the makup of the Lumia chip has changed to increase violet content.

Other sps like millipora and monti's and even most hardy acros color up just fine and there is no difference. It seems that just the more striking and particular coloration have been difficult to attain under nearly every brand of leds I've tried to date.

So I supplement :)
That may explain why some insist that LEDs are fine and some insist they are not.

[Aqualund]

Sounds like its visually fine, but there is not enough light hitting the under side of your corals? I'm a little surprised at this because you actually added a bunch of supplemental clusters.


Yes...on my display tank I added a bunch of clusters...like...A BUNCH...and still there is just no comparison to the full coverage from the t5's.

[Fredfish]

Yes...on my display tank I added a bunch of clusters...like...A BUNCH...and still there is just no comparison to the full coverage from the t5's.
Hmm, well that's certainly food for thought. I was looking at mini clusters. I wanted to get to 16 over a 36" by 36" area (approximately 9" centers), but I can't find a way to get all colours in all clusters without it getting very expensive.

[Aqualund]

Maybe someday they will phosphor coat a violet led to get different whites...then I think we might be in business!

[oreo57]

Maybe someday they will phosphor coat a violet led to get different whites...then I think we might be in business!

They do/did..whatever..

Also UV plus "red" forgot who though...........

http://techcrunch.com/2008/09/26/toshiba-develops-uv-led-with-extremely-white-lighting/
Toshiba says their prototype UV LED is made by placing a layer of aluminum nitride between the sapphire substrate and the light-emitting layer of gallium nitride to avoid fissures, resulting in higher efficiency. The LED is coated with green, red and blue phosphors. It produces light with a wavelength of 383nm and a brightness of 23mW (at a current of 20mA). This is up to 8mW higher than existing LEDs.

Toshiba’s goal is to offer their new white LEDs as an alternative to fluorescent lamps by 2010.


http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2013/TC/c2tc00162d#!divAbstract
Fun w/ phosphors...
http://www.phosphortech.com/highpowerphosphors.html

[Aqualund]

Man, I did not know this. Why aren't we using these?

[Fredfish]

Hey Aqualund. How high are your leds above your tank?

[oreo57]

Man, I did not know this. Why aren't we using these?

wonders of Capitalism........ ;)

[Aqualund]

wonders of Capitalism........ ;)

lol, right?

Hey Aqualund. How high are your leds above your tank?

above the farm they are about 18 inches with the optics on. On my display tank they are about 8 inches with no optics.

[zachts]

Maybe someday they will phosphor coat a violet led to get different whites...then I think we might be in business!

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?FV=ffec7c6c

pick your size and shape, dome or flat sheets, and then pick your violet LED of choice.......

[Aqualund]

This is amazing. I'm doing this. Gonna test these out and bust out a prism to see what range of colors I can achieve. I see the CRI values given but Im very interested to see the variety of the color.

I'm imagining like a collection of 390 or 410 violets with these on them pointing into a reflector. hmmm.

Once again, thanks Zachts.

[zachts]

This is amazing. I'm doing this. Gonna test these out and bust out a prism to see what range of colors I can achieve. I see the CRI values given but Im very interested to see the variety of the color.

I'm imagining like a collection of 390 or 410 violets with these on them pointing into a reflector. hmmm.

Once again, thanks Zachts.

I've messed around with the domes and not that good for aquarium light. probably the flat discs would work best. I've thought of just using a PVC pipe ring as the mixing chamber for the discs. Never got around to it though.

I would not dip below 410nm as it will just hasten the degredation of the plastic these are made of and really isn't needed. they work best with a little royal blue or even some blue in the mix and I've been toying with doing one that is predominately 420/430 violet with a pinch of blue and royal blue and throw in a couple dimmable reds to boost the cri of the very cool whites (lets more blue thru that way)

a custom blend from phosphortech would really be the way to go but last I talked with them it would be about $5,000 to do a prototype batch of several sheets of thier phosphor material. but they could make a phosphor blend taylored to make a light graph closer to an ATI flourecent bulb with spikier spectrum graph and whatever CCT and CRI you want to aim for..........ahhhh, I'll keep dreaming.......

The recent release of the Luxeon Lime to the DIY comunity has made me stop and rethink this route, though the phosphore disc or dome does act as a nice diffuser blending colors together for you. Previously 540 to 550nm was only available from white diodes, but now they have the Lime out. Not as narrow a spectrum as the green used in ATI bulbs but close enough for now.

[Daimyo68]

I'm curious if anyone is/has been running the 2 1500mA circuits above 1000mA? (Using an ELN driver, since it's not possible with the LDD drivers).

[jedimasterben]

There isn't much to gain from that other than a lot more heat, and being that close to the other diodes, I wouldn't go out of my way to push them higher. You will get roughly 30% more output and 60% more heat.

[Sascha1966]

Hi

I need some help in my build. Would be great if you can help me

I bought 10 chips (similar to Lumnia)
5 channel . Each Chanel 20 watt with 700-1200 MA
Each chanel is in row connected do that one Meanwell runs 200 watt.
Additionally I bought (5) each Chanel one Meanwell HGL 240 36 B
So the Meanwell is dimable. Controlled by a GHL Profilux
My problem is that the LED start only to Dimm at 50%. Before (100%-50% not notice dimming effect )
Then The dimming stops at 10-15 % so that I cannnot dimm down the LED complete
What is the problem? Would be really great to get feedback. See my tank under Sascha1966 in this forum

Sascha

[jedimasterben]

Hi

I need some help in my build. Would be great if you can help me

I bought 10 chips (similar to Lumnia)
5 channel . Each Chanel 20 watt with 700-1200 MA
Each chanel is in row connected do that one Meanwell runs 200 watt.
Additionally I bought (5) each Chanel one Meanwell HGL 240 36 B
So the Meanwell is dimable. Controlled by a GHL Profilux
My problem is that the LED start only to Dimm at 50%. Before (100%-50% not notice dimming effect )
Then The dimming stops at 10-15 % so that I cannnot dimm down the LED complete
What is the problem? Would be really great to get feedback. See my tank under Sascha1966 in this forum

Sascha
You've given no data on the voltage that each LED channel requires at specified currents. In addition, the HLG series is AC-DC and is not dimmable below ~10-13%.

[Sascha1966]

Thanks for the quick response
Ayyyy missed it with the Volt
L
This are 36 V. LED.
What I new to do to get this running ? I do not want to switch the light off. Can I do change or add some device to the HGL to get the last 10-15 % ? Or what you recommend ?
T

[oreo57]

Hi

I need some help in my build. Would be great if you can help me

I bought 10 chips (similar to Lumnia)
5 channel . Each Chanel 20 watt with 700-1200 MA
Each chanel is in row connected do that one Meanwell runs 200 watt.
Additionally I bought (5) each Chanel one Meanwell HGL 240 36 B
So the Meanwell is dimable. Controlled by a GHL Profilux
My problem is that the LED start only to Dimm at 50%. Before (100%-50% not notice dimming effect )
Then The dimming stops at 10-15 % so that I cannnot dimm down the LED complete
What is the problem? Would be really great to get feedback. See my tank under Sascha1966 in this forum

Sascha

Yep wrong drivers to dim to zero.. You need to set the ps on one of the switched plugs of the Profilux controller to get that last 10% off..

As to the lack of difference between 10%-50%..?...
Those are constant voltage drivers.. It's just wrong..

[Sascha1966]

Ahhhhhhhhh great news for eastern ;-)
So what I need that it works like it should with the Profilux ?

Can you get me help in this ?

[jedimasterben]

Thanks for the quick response
Ayyyy missed it with the Volt
L
This are 36 V. LED.
What I new to do to get this running ? I do not want to switch the light off. Can I do change or add some device to the HGL to get the last 10-15 % ? Or what you recommend ?
T
They are 36v per channel at full power or 36v at a particular current? If you're trying to push a lot of current through them, you're probably going well over 36v per channel. In addition, if they are 'like Lumia' and are just generic Chinese multichips, you'd be well-advised to not push them much beyond 700mA, if at all past it, to extend the life of the LEDs. The Chinese copies aren't known for their current tolerance.

The HLG will not dim below 10-13% when direct driving LEDs, it is just a limitation in AC-DC drivers. You'll need to use DC-DC drivers attach to a power supply (such as Meanwell LDD) to be able to dim to zero, but those require a 5v PWM signal, not 0-10v analog like the Profilux gives. You can convert the 0-10v to 5v PWM, O2surplus makes little converters that do that. You will also need higher voltage power supplies, as the LDD drop 3-4v from the input voltage, so with 36v input, they only output 32-33v, definitely not enough to run a '36v' multichip.

Yep wrong drivers to dim to zero.. You need to set the ps on one of the switched plugs of the Profilux controller to get that last 10% off..

As to the lack of difference between 10%-50%..?...
Those are constant voltage drivers.. It's just wrong..
HLG have both constant voltage and constant current modes. Attach LEDs to them and they operate in constant current, attach drivers and they are constant voltage. ;)

[Sascha1966]

So I can use my HGL but need to buy new driver? Which one are suitable?
Sorry for asking, but I have NO idea from electronic.

[Sascha1966]

So I can use my HGL but need to buy new driver? Which one are suitable?
Sorry for asking, but I have NO idea from electronic.

Each chanel of the LED has 36 V and 20 Watt per chanel by 700 to 1200 mA

[Sascha1966]

Can you specific which DDL exactly I have to buy for my needs ? A link would be great and a huge help

[oreo57]

HLG have both constant voltage and constant current modes. Attach LEDs to them and they operate in constant current, attach drivers and they are constant voltage. ;)
They are constant voltage till 6.7A load per driver.. AFAICT..
http://www.meanwell.com/search/HLG-240/HLG-240-spec.pdf
not to mention o/p has them hooked to another ps????
Not seeing how that happens but , personally, Meanwell lists as a power suply not driver.. I just accept that..

[oreo57]

Can you specific which DDL exactly I have to buy for my needs ? A link would be great and a huge help
you controllers DIM circuit is 1-10V.. Not sure you would ever get to zero..
You need to used the switched outlets to go to zero..
Will get back as to drivers.
need the chip....

[oreo57]

Can you specific which DDL exactly I have to buy for my needs ? A link would be great and a huge help

You mean LDD's? You can't use them "as is" you have no PWM control AFAICT.. BUT I didn't read the entire controller manual..

[Sascha1966]

Can you specific which DDL exactly I have to buy for my needs ? A link would be great and a huge help

[oreo57]

Can you specific which DDL exactly I have to buy for my needs ? A link would be great and a huge help
y6ou did not supply enough information for anyone to recommend anything. I need the chip specs and exactly how you have them wired together.
There are crucial missing pieces..
To be honest, I'm not even sure how you are getting any light out of them at all..
Each row on each chip requires 30- 36V (approx) as far as I can tell.

[Sascha1966]

Sorry to misuses this thread

Here it goes with all facts

1) controler PWN 0-10v GHL Profilux
2) Meanwell HGL 240-36B (Dimmable)
3) Chip China
a ) 5 Chanel
b) 36V Each chanel
c) 700 -1200 mA echo chanel
4) Chanel 1 in Row of 10 Chip
Chanel 2 in Row of 10 Chip
....... Until 5

I hope this is the correct way that you can tell me what I have to change to
Be able to Dimm down (at least to 2%) not like I have it now until 15%

[Sascha1966]

10 of these in row

[Sascha1966]

It works but cannot be dimmed down. This is now one Chanel 15% and cannot be lowered! Only if I swith off complete

What I need to buy to run these LED and to dimm lower than I have it now. With 2 % I would be fine !! :deadhorse1:

[Aqualund]

Instead of your Meanwell HGL 240-36B, you need to use a standalone power supply, LDD-H drivers, and a pwm controller like a stormx or arduino.

As far as I know you can only get what you want with PWM control.

[oreo57]

What I need to buy to run these LED and to dimm lower than I have it now. With 2 % I would be fine !! :deadhorse1:
I have to agree w/ Aqualund;
Short of a 100% rebuild of the drivers/controllers, you can't achive LESS than 10% dimming, regardless of driver/make of driver..
BUT it is a big world.. There maybe something out there.. I haven't seen it though. JUST an example:
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/advance/assets/6-1_to_6-13_Atlas2012.pdf
1-10 V (minimum dim level 10%)

[zachts]

What I need to buy to run these LED and to dim lower than I have it now. With 2 % I would be fine.

You will need one of these or similar (just an arduino and a simple sketch really this one was devised by O2Surplus) but commercial versions are around onlline, or just make one using a run of the mill arduino. Most redy made ones will only give you 4 channels. (if you make one it can provide up to 6 channels) This will also need it's own power supply.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21496208&postcount=17

You will also need 5 LDD-H drivers per multi chip LED, one for each channel. I'd recommend using the LDD-600H or (LDD-600HW if you want one that has wire leads rather than board mount pins) if you can get them as It is unclear just how reliable those LED chips would be driven at any current higher than this. Best place to get them depends where you live, I get them from here, especially when I need a lot at one time as you are going to. http://www.powergatellc.com/led-driver-dc-dc-converters.html

Your existing HGL 240-36B Power supplies should work, but I don't guarantee it as the "A" model is the one better suited for this use. Not sure how the "B" version behaves with a driver attached. My gut says it outputs its max rated voltage but I don't know anyone who has tested this and it may behave unexpectedly when powering an LDD driver. I would test it if possible on a single LDD and only one string of LEDs prefferably spares and not your good set up. If it doesn't work you'll need to pick up new power supplies.

[oreo57]

You will need one of these or similar (just an arduino and a simple sketch really this one was devised by O2Surplus) but commercial versions are around onlline, or just make one using a run of the mill arduino. Most redy made ones will only give you 4 channels. (if you make one it can provide up to 6 channels) This will also need it's own power supply.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21496208&postcount=17

You will also need 5 LDD-H drivers per multi chip LED, one for each channel. I'd recommend using the LDD-600H or (LDD-600HW if you want one that has wire leads rather than board mount pins) if you can get them as It is unclear just how reliable those LED chips would be driven at any current higher than this. Best place to get them depends where you live, I get them from here, especially when I need a lot at one time as you are going to. http://www.powergatellc.com/led-driver-dc-dc-converters.html



$1000 question: Those converters to change 0-10V to PWM, HIS controller lists dimming at 1-10V .. not zero..
I see a potential issue here as is.. Maybe a resistor in series BUT ?????
ONLY guessing here but in "worst case" will it still dim below 10% (1V)

As I see it IF his Dim circuit stops a 1V he won't get the low dimming anyways..

[zachts]

$1000 question: Those converters to change 0-10V to PWM, HIS controller lists dimming at 1-10V .. not zero..
I see a potential issue here as is.. Maybe a resistor in series BUT ?????
ONLY guessing here but in "worst case" will it still dim below 10% (1V)

As I see it IF his Dim circuit stops a 1V he won't get the low dimming anyways..

I missed that, weird that the GHL doesn't provide the normal 0-10volt signal?

Either way this can be easily overcome using the DIY converter boards by tweaking the code slightly to convert the signal such that 1 volt equals 0% duty cycle and 10 volts equals 100% duty cycle.

[O2Surplus]

I missed that, weird that the GHL doesn't provide the normal 0-10volt signal?

Either way this can be easily overcome using the DIY converter boards by tweaking the code slightly to convert the signal such that 1 volt equals 0% duty cycle and 10 volts equals 100% duty cycle.


LOL- I've got some convertors already built that were designed specifically for GHL profilux users. I sent a few of them to a forum member in Sweden last year. From what I've heard- they work great. It's powered directly from the controller's 12V line, so no additional power supply is needed. Here's a photo-


http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/ProfiluxcompatibleAnalogtoDigitalConvertors002_zps771a5b3c.jpg

[oreo57]

LOL- I've got some convertors already built that were designed specifically for GHL profilux user

Why am I NOT surprised... ;)
So w/ those boards and 50 LDD's.. he's on his way..

[oreo57]

LOL- I've got some convertors already built that were designed specifically for GHL profilux users. I sent a few of them to a forum member in Sweden last year. From what I've heard- they work great. It's powered directly from the controller's 12V line, so no additional power supply is needed. Here's a photo-




What about the LED power supply? Single one would be 36V 1000W.. :eek:
-/+

http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1726857_g10e

Can he use the 5 HGL's in the constant voltage range??
Leave "dim" open..
2 chips roughly 6A..

[zachts]

Can he use the 5 HGL's in the constant voltage range??
Leave "dim" open..
2 chips roughly 6A..

That was my thought. Never read of anyone running the "B" model that way. With dim wires open it could only output 18volts or up to it's max, not sure if it would auto adjust voltage higher or lower though by itself, like you can on the "A" models (up to 38.5v) with the on board pot if needed, or dial it down to run the LDD's more efficiently for smaller strings.

I'm very curious how the "B" version will behave with a driver attached instead of an LED.

[jedimasterben]

The -B model is the same as the others in the series if no dimming signal is present.

[jedimasterben]

Sorry to misuses this thread

Here it goes with all facts

1) controler PWN 0-10v GHL Profilux
2) Meanwell HGL 240-36B (Dimmable)
3) Chip China
a ) 5 Chanel
b) 36V Each chanel
c) 700 -1200 mA echo chanel
4) Chanel 1 in Row of 10 Chip
Chanel 2 in Row of 10 Chip
....... Until 5

I hope this is the correct way that you can tell me what I have to change to
Be able to Dimm down (at least to 2%) not like I have it now until 15%
Ok, for that, you'll need to order fifty (yes, 50x) Meanwell LDD-500H or 600H. Those Chinese multichips do not like being pushed harder than 700mA, and some don't do well even at that current due to poor thermal performance.

Onlinecomponents.com has exactly 50 in stock right now, $3.38 each. http://www.onlinecomponents.com/mean-well-ldd600h.html?p=43544928&utm_source=octopart&utm_medium=referral&ref=OctopartFeed

You will also need boards to mount them on. LED groupbuy has 5up boards that are preassembled. You will need ten of those. Do a google search to get to them, this site will break the link to it.

You will also need new power supplies. The 36v ones you have now will not work due to the LDD needing more than 36v input to be able to output 36v. I recommend sticking with HLG. You will need five HLG-320H-48 (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/mean-well-hlg320h48a.html?p=43123430), power two LDD boards (and therefore two total chips) per power supply.

[oreo57]

You will also need new power supplies. The 36v ones you have now will not work due to the LDD needing more than 36v input to be able to output 36v. I recommend sticking with HLG. You will need five HLG-320H-48 (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/mean-well-hlg320h48a.html?p=43123430), power two LDD boards (and therefore two total chips) per power supply.

Each channel of the chips are 10 diodes(possibly 2 parallel rows of 10).. Pretty sure he can get away w/ 33V
(3.3V each diode) w/ only a minimal loss of output..esp If you drop the meanwells to 500mA

Though "spitting" a 500mA in 2 (2 parallel rows) is only 250mA per row...
I can't quite tell from the photo but it looks like 20 1W diodes /channel 2 rows of 10..

[oreo57]

Ok, for that, you'll need to order fifty (yes, 50x) Meanwell LDD-500H or 600H.
You will also need boards to mount them on.

you forgot O2's "special sauce" converter boards to turn 1-10V DC to 0-5V PWM...

[oreo57]

That was my thought. Never read of anyone running the "B" model that way. With dim wires open it could only output 18volts or up to it's max, not sure if it would auto adjust voltage higher or lower though by itself, like you can on the "A" models (up to 38.5v) with the on board pot if needed, or dial it down to run the LDD's more efficiently for smaller strings.

I'm very curious how the "B" version will behave with a driver attached instead of an LED.


As long as the current demand does not go to the "constant current" region it will output full rated voltage. Hooked to 2 LDD's it will never achieve full current.
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/hlg3.jpg

[oreo57]

Or 5 for that matter.. As long as they total <6A

[jedimasterben]

Each channel of the chips are 10 diodes(possibly 2 parallel rows of 10).. Pretty sure he can get away w/ 33V
(3.3V each diode) w/ only a minimal loss of output..esp If you drop the meanwells to 500mA

Though "spitting" a 500mA in 2 (2 parallel rows) is only 250mA per row...
I can't quite tell from the photo but it looks like 20 1W diodes /channel 2 rows of 10..
Didn't notice that they had double the amount of LEDs as typical - that is why it is able to use 1.2A per 'channel', as it is splitting it into two 600mA strings. Even still, the board they're mounted to I doubt can dissipate ~216w per multichip. Running on a 700mA LDD will give each 350mA, total chip wattage will be around 115w, which is still quite a bit to deal with unless the PCB is copper.

you forgot O2's "special sauce" converter boards to turn 1-10V DC to 0-5V PWM...
True story :)

Or 5 for that matter.. As long as they total <6A
Actually closer to 6.4A total - 95% of maximum current output is where it is designed to switch over.

[oreo57]

Didn't notice that they had double the amount of LEDs as typical - that is why it is able to use 1.2A per 'channel', as it is splitting it into two 600mA strings. Even still, the board they're mounted to I doubt can dissipate ~216w per multichip. Running on a 700mA LDD will give each 350mA, total chip wattage will be around 115w, which is still quite a bit to deal with unless the PCB is copper.


True story :)


Actually closer to 6.4A total - 95% of maximum current output is where it is designed to switch over.
500ma drivers will keep the Watts below 100.. Which I would guess is about all they can "truly" handle..
Substituting some bigger mA's to a channel or 2 "down the road" of course is an option.
Don't think the O/p was expecting this $300 plus for a rebuild to "do it right"..

[oreo57]

O/P?????................. gone. ;)

[Sascha1966]

O/P Is here! Needed to work to Get the 300$ Plus, to do it ight. All sunds really great! But I do not understand one word. Too much input for someone who has absolutely no electronic backround. But i will try to follow your instructions. Thanks for all input !

[Sascha1966]

LOL- I've got some convertors already built that were designed specifically for GHL profilux users. I sent a few of them to a forum member in Sweden last year. From what I've heard- they work great. It's powered directly from the controller's 12V line, so no additional power supply is needed. Here's a photo-


http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/ProfiluxcompatibleAnalogtoDigitalConvertors002_zps771a5b3c.jpg



If you build this units already solving this problem, would it not possible to build one for me also ?