Reading stickies getting more confused

[SilverAvia]

Ok I am working on building my 55 gallon tank, I am going with a deep sand bed (120 lbs of sand some of which will be going in my fuge), a 22 gallon fuge/sump, a esphopps overflow, an octopus skimmer, a wave maker and a SQWD for my return pipe to mix up the current. So far just waiting for my equipment to arrive, no water or LR yet. ok questions

First off Quarentine, I know i need to quarentine my fish, no brainer. But what about my clean up crew? If so how long do i quarentine them for, the stickies said you really can't medicate them since there isn't any meds for inverts, so what do i do if they develop something? Also coral, have read mixed things from quarentine and dips, no dips, no quarentine, so confused.

Second thing is water. I am going to with Instant Ocean reef Crystals, I can get the 160 gallon bucket at my LFS for 35.99. I have read that you can't put newly mixed seawater in for a water change because it can harm your critters, so without making up a bunch and storing it, (my husband balked when i told him I wanted three water containers, on for the ro/di to empty in, one with ro/di water ready to go, and one with premade sea water in it, two with heaters and powerheads to keep it from going stagninate) how would you mix up a waterchange batch? Make it up, put a heater in it and wait what an hour, two hours, overnight?

My head is starting to swim, maybe someone can point me in the right direction? I don't want to get hip deep and find that i just stepped to far out and I'm about to drown.

Thanks:hmm5:

[klwheat]

No need to qt cuc.
As far as water change, what volume are you talking about. When I had smaller tanks, I would just mix 5gallons the night before and let it sit overnight before a change.

[Blown 346]

Once your QT is setup and cycled, You could get away a with a week or so. I myself have never QT snails or crabs. Its always a good idea.

Since you dont want to dose meds, hypo salinity works well ans well as increasing temperature. Hypo is lowering the salinity slowly over days to kill off the disease depending on what it is. Normally with inverts they are too sensitive to do this with, and normally dont make it by the time you notice something is wrong. I dont QT my snails etc.


Dips are meant for corals, so you can spot any Hitch hikers and remove them. I normally only QT corals, the only time I would do dip treatments is if the coral had a disease.

Normally you want to wait 24 hours after you make the water, to give the salt time to fully dissolve. If you mix it up and check the salinity, all the salt isnt dissolved yet so you will get a false reading from then to the next day. I wait 24 hours after mixing, and place a hater and powerhead for salt to dissolve and water to become the same temp as the main tank.


I liked your analogy there at the end.

[MondoBongo]

i QT everything wet. this includes cleanup crew and corals.

my QT tank is actually a fully cycled tank that is non medicated. i use it for observation and grow out, and to give the new animal(s) a chance to adjust and settle down.

if i were to detect a disease or parasite, i would medicate accordingly in a separate hospital tank.

when i make my new saltwater, i like to let it sit for at least 12 hours, preferably 24, in my mixing container with a powerhead going to help aerate it. as previously stated this helps make sure that your readings are accurate, and that everything is fully dissolved. usually i toss in the heater about 4 - 6 hours before i plan on putting it in my tank, just to make sure it is up to temp.

[Newsmyrna80]

+1 Mondobongo I QT everything! I introduced brook from an unquarantined sea urchin and ich from an unquarantined emerald crab. All inverts go through at least 8 weeks quarantine.
As far as the water holding my spouse balked too at having 2 garbage cans to hold water along with power heads and heaters, etc but it really is a must. In the event of an emergency you can't wait to make up water.

[thegrun]

If you do plan on storing saltwater it does not need to be circulated or heated unless you use a brand of salt that contains organics. With salt mixes that designed for reef tanks it is best to stop circulating the water as soon as the salt is fully dissolved. These salt mixes are high in calcium and alkalinity so circulating the water with a pump for an extended time tends to cause some calcium precipitation due to the heat of the powerhead. Mix the salt in cold RO/DI water and turn off the pump after an hour or two (assuming the salt is fully dissolved in that time frame). Then heat only the water you plan to use for the actual water change. It is also a good idea to aerate stored saltwater for an hour or two before use.

[SilverAvia]

you guys are being such a help thank you!

For coral QT do i need a seperate tank? I may want to purchase some after i get fish and I don't want to have to worry about having and issue with meds messing them up. Also how long to QT coral?

I think I can swing the Containers then if they don't have to be heated and moving all the time, he was like omg our electric bill is going to be thru the roof! I will have to discuss it with him later.

As a side note my EShopps just got here! So exciting got it all put together and hanging on the back of my tank. when my hubby gets home from work I get to show it to him, he's really starting to get annoyed with my new hobby, I keep wanting to share with him,but he's like whatever, I'm blind i can't see it in the end, but he does like that it makes me happy.

[camblonie]

You need to consider the scale you are working in too. Most people don't have a lighting system in QT that will support corals for any amount of time. Similarly, most peoples QT tank is small enough it won't support many fish at one time and any new addition restarts the clock for everything in the QT tank.
I dip corals because it fits my small operation. I started essentially QT fish in my DT so I could add a few. Now I QT a fish at a time and it's slow going because of this.
All good questions, you'll figure out what's right for you!

[EllieSuz]

I don't understand the need for three water containers. I use one. I fill it with RO/DI water, mix in the salt, heat and aerate it overnight and use it for a water change the next day or next week, or whatever. Because I make salt in the basement and pump it upstairs for water changes, I have an identical Brute container to pump the water into. So, I have one container full and one empty most of the time.

[MondoBongo]

you guys are being such a help thank you!

For coral QT do i need a seperate tank? I may want to purchase some after i get fish and I don't want to have to worry about having and issue with meds messing them up. Also how long to QT coral?

I think I can swing the Containers then if they don't have to be heated and moving all the time, he was like omg our electric bill is going to be thru the roof! I will have to discuss it with him later.

As a side note my EShopps just got here! So exciting got it all put together and hanging on the back of my tank. when my hubby gets home from work I get to show it to him, he's really starting to get annoyed with my new hobby, I keep wanting to share with him,but he's like whatever, I'm blind i can't see it in the end, but he does like that it makes me happy.


if you plan on medicating your fish, you will need a separate QT system for all corals and inverts.

nothing without a backbone should be exposed to any water, equipment, rocks, sand, etc... that has been treated with copper. other medications may vary in their negative effect(s), but generally it is a good idea to keep them separate.

many of the medications used will also destroy the beneficial bacteria that provide us with our nitrogen cycle. so be prepared to monitor ammonia/nitrite, and make large water changes as necessary in any tank being treated with medications like copper or antibiotics.

i am not a believe in prophylactic medication. other opinions on the subject vary considerably, but my general notion is that you shouldn't blindly medicate if you don't have a reason. if you don't know what you are treating for, there is no good way to treat it. similar to how we're not all on antibiotics around the clock. we would only get them from a doctor if we had a bacterial infection that required them.

again, techniques and opinions in regards to prophylactic treatment vary considerably, so decide what will work best for you.

as far as mixing containers, my better half has gotten tired of me leaving buckets and rubbermaid bins for water storage and mixing around, so i had started carefully hiding things. i recently purchased a cheap cabinet from walmart, and am using it to camouflage all of my wires/cables/controls, and in the base had concealed a 30 gallon tank i bought to use as a saltwater mixing station.

the cabinet itself cost about $65, and a few hours to put it together and punch some holes in it and reroute cables. the effect is priceless though. my girlfriend was so happy with how it looked, she has signed off on building a new seahorse tank. ;)

here are a few pictures of the new setup to give you an idea. i've seen people with woodworking skill do much nicer things, but this was a good quick fix on a budget.

to the left of the main tank is my QT system, which is currently a mess. this will also be reconfigured soon to hide all the unsightly buckets and cables and such. the plan is to replace the buckets that hold freshwater for my ATO with a 20 extra high tank, add a 10 gallon sump to QT, and tuck them both inside a stand, then replace the 20L QT tank with a smaller tank that will sit next to the main tank, and flush with it instead of running along the wall all weird.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9x_D1YZsXbs/UukzNQfmgxI/AAAAAAAAAco/UIOZ0FZ_e-g/w465-h822-no/IMAG0316.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6bdNA_fWj8U/UukzOwhISzI/AAAAAAAAAcw/qzFf375mEaY/w958-h542-no/IMAG0306.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Qsp2Pbu8TdE/UukzQeVpNpI/AAAAAAAAAc4/mZb698qigpU/w958-h542-no/IMAG0313.jpg

[thegrun]

I have a small 50 gallon tank as a display tank, so I keep a 15 gallon tank set up as a QT tank. For corals I dip and then put them in the QT for a week (I should go the full 9 weeks, but I admit I cheat). For fish I also dip but go the full 9 weeks of issolation.

[SilverAvia]

Now I am getting concerned about my quarentine, I have an old 29 gallon tank that i was going to set up with a hang on the back filter (aquaclear 70) but is that going to cause problems? I know all my stuff is good, the tank was my starter in freshwater but i have since upgraded and cleaned it out with vinager, as well as the filter which was used for my cichlids.

I also only plan on medicating my fish if I see something present such as ich, I found with freshwater fish all it does is stress them out if you medicate as a proactive measure.

[MondoBongo]

if you haven't used copper or any other types of medication that would hang around then i would say go for it.

i actually got my 20L off Craig's List complete with HOB filter and a hood/pc light for $40. i've had no issues.

i upgraded the light so i could QT clams and SPS, but other than that it is a fairly basic setup.

[snorvich]

i QT everything wet. this includes cleanup crew and corals.

my QT tank is actually a fully cycled tank that is non medicated. i use it for observation and grow out, and to give the new animal(s) a chance to adjust and settle down.

if i were to detect a disease or parasite, i would medicate accordingly in a separate hospital tank.

when i make my new saltwater, i like to let it sit for at least 12 hours, preferably 24, in my mixing container with a powerhead going to help aerate it. as previously stated this helps make sure that your readings are accurate, and that everything is fully dissolved. usually i toss in the heater about 4 - 6 hours before i plan on putting it in my tank, just to make sure it is up to temp.

I agree.

[snorvich]

I have a small 50 gallon tank as a display tank, so I keep a 15 gallon tank set up as a QT tank. For corals I dip and then put them in the QT for a week (I should go the full 9 weeks, but I admit I cheat). For fish I also dip but go the full 9 weeks of issolation.

Excellent practice (even with the minor cheating) but I would not cheat to be the safest.

[thegrun]

Excellent practice (even with the minor cheating) but I would not cheat to be the safest.

I agree, do not what I do but what I say!:beer:

[Sk8r]

You can use water mixed for only 4 hours if you have a strong mixing pump (like a mag 12) and a screaming emergency.
Preferable is mixing overnight because you're trying to dissolve more than salt --- like calcium, etc, which may take a little longer to go into solution.

You're absolutely correct to ask if some recommendations seem a bit over the top. The one not to scant is quarantine. Watch out for acclimation, too: the name of the game is making sure the two SALINITIES match within .002. If they do, forget acclimating: the critter can go on in unless it is rare and difficult---in which case it has no business in a beginning tank.
Put your rock down before your sand.
Wash your sand if using dry sand: the amount of dust in it will make you crazy. I must've used 200 gallons of water trying to get the dust out of 20 lbs of sand.

And NEVER be shy about asking questions. Things are a lot easier to answer BEFORE they're done!

[SilverAvia]

That reminds me of another question I have. I love live Aquaria I have gotten some of my freshwater fish from there and they are in much better shape then any I got from LFS, however I know the most important things is to get them out of that bag asap. So when acclimating with saltwater, how do you juggle reading the salinatly getting, getting freshwater for my fishie, and making sure they don't decide to go carpet surfing? I mean with the freshwater guys I could acclimate temp and just get them going. There wasn't as much stuff to watch out for, only had one fish ever jump out on me and it was a six inch bumblebee cichlid who just got fiesty.

[snorvich]

That reminds me of another question I have. I love live Aquaria I have gotten some of my freshwater fish from there and they are in much better shape then any I got from LFS, however I know the most important things is to get them out of that bag asap. So when acclimating with saltwater, how do you juggle reading the salinatly getting, getting freshwater for my fishie, and making sure they don't decide to go carpet surfing? I mean with the freshwater guys I could acclimate temp and just get them going. There wasn't as much stuff to watch out for, only had one fish ever jump out on me and it was a six inch bumblebee cichlid who just got fiesty.

Adjust your quarantine tank SG to that of the shipping water. In that case you only have 15 minutes of temperature acclimation.

[pbaldwin]

There are a ton of ways to do things that generally accomplish the same thing. For acclimation I have a bunch of small containers I place the bag in for support and then aerate worth a little air stone to slowly bring up the pH. After that I do a slow drip to get parameters in the righ t ballpark and from there into a 20 high with a hob for qt.