View Full Version : New Tank Questions - Kind of Nano Sized
chem368
02/18/2014, 01:12 PM
I am wondering what advice some of you have regarding a smaller "all in one" system in that 30 - 40 gal range. I have seen/been reading up on ELOS systems, Red Sea, Bio Cube, Innovative marine, JBJ etc. Just wonder what experience people have with these and the quality of the equipment that comes with them.
As much as I loved piecing together my last system (150 Gal), I am looking for something a little more simple and straight forward that will still allow me to grow and sustain a quality reef but just not quite at that scale.
What are some of the pros/cons of each of these systems and where should I sink my Money? There seems to be quite a large price gap in the systems I mentioned above, so I'm curious as to just what all that extra $$ is getting me. I do love the look of the rimless tanks that I have seen with ELOS and Innovative, but I am also looking for functionality.
Also, should I keep a sump or not.
I guess it might also help if I provided the direction I was planning to go with stocking too.
While this is still just circulating around in my head, I think I would like a small mix of corals, I definitely love the cool variety i get with LPS (Hammerhead, plates, Tooth, etc) not sure how these would all fit in a tank this size but I'm sure I can find a way, SPS would be minimal, maybe a birdsnest or something, a few zoas and shrooms. Lastly, I really want to have a nice clam, would sacrifice other aspects of the tank if I had to so I could make that work.
For livestock I know I want a pair of awesome clowns (hosting an anemone ideally), A helfrichi fire fish (or purple) and maybe a wrasse or harptail blenny.
All of this is still being toyed with, but I think this gives you an idea where I am going. I'm still trying to figure out what I can/can not do with a smaller tank like this, so this list could change drastically.
Thanks for any input on the sorta "Nano" sized tank
jinks
02/18/2014, 02:28 PM
If you really like the look of the tank then they can be okay. If yo are not set on it then I see no point. Small tanks are so easy to do as it is why pay more? If you do a sump then they are really pointless. Keep in mind that's just an opinion. If you do like the look then go for it.
hersheyb
02/18/2014, 04:11 PM
If you really like the look of the tank then they can be okay. If yo are not set on it then I see no point. Small tanks are so easy to do as it is why pay more? If you do a sump then they are really pointless. Keep in mind that's just an opinion. If you do like the look then go for it.
+1 the way I see it, if your going to do a sump there's no point to get an AOI system.
chem368
02/18/2014, 04:34 PM
Thanks for the feedback. With the AIO systems, is there sufficient room to get everything to fit cleanly? ie. skimmer, ATO, pumps, heaters, etc. Guess that is where I am scared to leave the sump behind. It was always my catch all to keep everything out of site from the DT.
ASpec
02/18/2014, 05:37 PM
Your talking a huge price span (more than $1200 to be exact) between the AIO's and the ELOS. Your also comparing (and take no offense, anyone) a Honda to a Ferrari.
If budget is concerned you and wanted more $ to spend on equipment, coral, etc. I would go JBJ RL or IM Nuvo. If you have the cash... go ELOS, the build quality is worth the cost, trust me... I've owned JBJ, IM, and ELOS.
chem368
02/18/2014, 07:42 PM
Thanks ASpec... This is kind of what I am trying to understand. I learned from my previous tank that investing in the right equipment upfront is far cheaper than starting with entry level and trying to always upgrade and chasing the next better item.
While budget is always a concern, I am willing to spend money in the right places if it makes sense. So I guess my question is, what makes an ELOS a Ferrari? I understand the cost of quality as I used to work in manufacturing, but does it also perform like a Ferrari or am I just paying for a brand name? If it does perform that much better, what sets it apart? Better filtration? Better lighting? Better options (i like options), all of the above?
I don't want to buy a cheaper model, only to regret it later and will never recoup my investment.
Also, trust me, no offense taken to any comments. I am here to learn so as to minimize mistakes. While I used to have a nice 150 gal tank, I still seem to view myself as a newb as 3 years in the hobby only seems to have me scratching the surface.
jinks
02/18/2014, 08:25 PM
You can fit some equipment in it but it will be tight, you will be very limited in your options, and you might need to mod things. If you just want rimless deep blue makes some that they dont want your first born for.
ASpec
02/18/2014, 09:20 PM
While budget is always a concern, I am willing to spend money in the right places if it makes sense. So I guess my question is, what makes an ELOS a Ferrari? I understand the cost of quality as I used to work in manufacturing, but does it also perform like a Ferrari or am I just paying for a brand name? If it does perform that much better, what sets it apart? Better filtration? Better lighting? Better options (i like options), all of the above?
I don't want to be an ELOS fan boy or salesperson for them, however, I can make these points to you regarding ELOS.
1 - It's made in Italy by hand, one tank at a time. They are not mass produced by machine. They cut there own glass in house, all edges are beveled and polished.
2 - Quality of materials. The glass color, even on the non crystal clear panes is spectacular. The seams are perfect. The overflow box is compact, very efficient, and very quiet.
3 - Love it or hate it, ELOS is true All In One. They include the Display (pool), sump, skimmer, and pumps. Plug and play. All the components are made by ELOS (minus the pumps) and made to work together in perfect harmony.
Nothing from above makes it's better at keeping your reef healthy, that is of course on you. You don't need an ELOS to have a successful reef. Are you paying for the name? Of course you are.
chem368
02/18/2014, 09:38 PM
This is all helpful, and it sounds like you have some experience with AIO and turn key tanks. In what I have seen in the weeks reviewing all this I really like the look and concept of the ELOS Midi for these reasons:
- 36 Gal is right in the range I was looking
- Love the look of rimless
- sump provides additional water volume which I find beneficial to help keep the tank stable.
- Turnkey approach (one stop shop). May not be a true AIO, but i'm not left piecing things together and having to worry what will fit and if it is "sufficient" for my setup.
I did see the 20X20X20 that deep blue has that was also suggested and like the tank, but its missing that turnkey approach I am looking for.
Are there other manufactures that offer an option similar to ELOS that is in a different price range? I figure the ELOS is about $3K all in (excluding livestock) being that I have all the support stuff from my last tank (testing kits, RO/DI system, etc).
ASpec
02/19/2014, 08:21 AM
The deep blue 30 gallon rimless frag tank was on my radar before I bit the bullet and went back to ELOS -- There is nothing wrong with it, but when compared side by side, quality wise it's not even close. You really need to see an ELOS in person to appreciate it. I am lucky that I have 2 dealers within 30 minutes of my house.
Your price above on the MIDI is a little high. I just looked at my invoice from ELOS USA on my MIDI purchase in late 2011, I paid $1749 + shipping. Last time I looked at the MIDI locally it was $1949.
If you decide to go ELOS do not get suckered into the ELOS + Light deal they will offer you. While the ELOS LED lights look awesome on the MINI and MIDI appearance wise that's about all they are good for. Keep that money and purchase a Radion, Kessil, AI, or MH fixture.
And to answer you last question, yes, many manufactures make a "copy cat" of the ELOS setup. I can't speak to the quality of these so I will leave that to someone else.
The only current issue I have with ELOS is that ELOS USA is no longer. I have no experience with the new distributor so I won't place judgement, but I have heard some people not too happy regarding customer service, however, at the end of the day my local dealer supports me and I can source anything I need online if necessary. RC also use to have a very active ELOS forum but now it's been merged in with the new distributor so all the really good/useful threads are gone.
chem368
02/19/2014, 10:43 AM
Thanks again ASpec, yes, my $3k number was based on including their light. I am very open to shopping that portion around as that is a pretty high $$ item and worth getting what I need.
Hopefully others might chime in with their experience with other brands, I really appreciate the feedback you have given me.
I did see some interesting reviews on CAD Lights, anyone have experience with them? I'm a little more weary of IM these days based on the recent threads about cracking tanks.
ASpec
02/19/2014, 11:02 AM
Thanks again ASpec, yes, my $3k number was based on including their light. I am very open to shopping that portion around as that is a pretty high $$ item and worth getting what I need.
Hopefully others might chime in with their experience with other brands, I really appreciate the feedback you have given me.
Anytime. I found a used ELOS E-Lite XP Color when I purchased my MIDI here on RC for around $500. Once I added the tempo and dimmer accessories to dim the light, add sunrise and sunset effects I had $700 invested in it. For that money I should have purchased a Giesemann! But I wanted the sleek look. This time around I passed on the sleek look, saved some money, and got a better light. Here is the last pic of my MIDI before I sold it with the ELOS E-Lite to give you an idea.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e262/theaspec/MIDI/photo1.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/theaspec/media/MIDI/photo1.jpg.html)
Best of luck in your search for the perfect setup. Let me know of any other questions on ELOS, I will do my best to help.
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