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George9
02/18/2014, 09:52 PM
I'm pretty sure I've been dealing with flukes on my new arrivals(thanks blue zoo!!), they finished a copper treatment for ich (which they also had) and they continued to twitch and scratch with no white spots appearing after a week or so. A FW dip confirmed there were a few flukes as well.

It's been a month and I'd really like to get these fish into the main tank to reduce stress.

My plan is to treat with prazi to kill most flukes (already did this once, but they're back), then when they don't show symptoms, I'll acclimate them to the main tank, then freshwater dip them and place the fish directly into the main tank water. Will doing a fw dip before adding the fish 100% ensure there are no flukes entering the main tank? That's the one thing I'm iffy on with this.


Thanks

lagatbezan
02/18/2014, 11:44 PM
It is best to do two rounds of prazipro a week apart. This way you kill the eggs that hatch as well. Some even do a third round. And then observe for a couple of weeks, then add to DT.

HumbleFish
02/18/2014, 11:46 PM
Will doing a fw dip before adding the fish 100% ensure there are no flukes entering the main tank?

No. And I would not even consider moving the fish to your DT until you get this figured out/knocked out in QT.

I would treat with Prazi, wait 5 days, do a 25% WC, and then treat with Prazi again. Doing the second treatment is very important because Prazi (and f/w dips) only kill the worms, but not any eggs they leave behind. Doing the second treatment 5 days later is also very important, because you are timing it just right so that you knock out the "next generation" before they can lay eggs of their own.

It's rare, but sometimes you may encounter a strain of flukes which are resistant to prazi. For those, you will need to do formalin baths. But you won't know if you've got those until you first treat as outlined above. And then I suggest you talk to Newsmyrna80; she's our resident flukes expert. :)

snorvich
02/19/2014, 05:31 AM
No. And I would not even consider moving the fish to your DT until you get this figured out/knocked out in QT.

I would treat with Prazi, wait 5 days, do a 25% WC, and then treat with Prazi again. Doing the second treatment is very important because Prazi (and f/w dips) only kill the worms, but not any eggs they leave behind. Doing the second treatment 5 days later is also very important, because you are timing it just right so that you knock out the "next generation" before they can lay eggs of their own.

It's rare, but sometimes you may encounter a strain of flukes which are resistant to prazi. For those, you will need to do formalin baths. But you won't know if you've got those until you first treat as outlined above. And then I suggest you talk to Newsmyrna80; she's our resident flukes expert. :)

I agree with all suggestions. And about our "flukes expert".

Newsmyrna80
02/19/2014, 07:10 AM
Awwww, shucks;) You are too kind:)
George9, I would definitely do at least 2 more rounds of Prazi. When you did the dip and saw the flukes were you able to tell what kind they were? One of the hardest things with flukes is confirmation of eradication due to the fact that a fish will continue to scratch as it skin continues to heal. After you have done 2 more rounds of Prazi I would wait at least 4 weeks after the last day of the second dose and perform another FW dip. I know four weeks is a long time but it takes 19 days for a fluke to reach maturation where it will lay eggs. It then takes 4 days for the eggs to hatch and a few more days for the oncomiridium to begin developing into a specimen that you will be able to see/identify in the FW process. The timeline is based on a water temp of 78 degrees. This should catch any fluke that gets by the Prazi. While Prazi is a very good product some, including myself, have found it is not 100% effective.
Your other option, as Humblefish mentioned, is formalin. However, you would still have to wait the fluke cycle out to verify eradication.
What kind of fish are in the QT?

snorvich
02/19/2014, 08:55 AM
Awwww, shucks;) You are too kind:)


Not kind, just recognizing expertise when we find it! :celeb3:

George9
02/19/2014, 06:32 PM
man you really are the fluke expert, I think you advised me on my last fluke situation too :) good thing my main tank is clear this time!!! thank god for quarantine

I have a flame angel, raccoon butterfly and a tiny blue tang.

I went ahead and freshwater dipped the angel because she needed some relief ASAP, I saw a bunch of "flakes" In the tub, like large dandruff.


None of them are scratching or twitching now, but their respiration (especially the angel) is fast. I dosed prazi again today.

Last time I dealt with flukes, I had to use clout (which worked really fast, but was really hard on the fish), because prazi didn't work. But this time the prazi seems to have a greater effect.

I didn't know fish will scratch while they heal, that is great to know

Newsmyrna80
02/19/2014, 06:37 PM
Not kind, just recognizing expertise when we find it! :celeb3:

You are making blush;) But you know the old saying....Know thy enemy:reading:

Newsmyrna80
02/19/2014, 06:49 PM
man you really are the fluke expert, I think you advised me on my last fluke situation too :) good thing my main tank is clear this time!!! thank god for quarantine

I have a flame angel, raccoon butterfly and a tiny blue tang.

I went ahead and freshwater dipped the angel because she needed some relief ASAP, I saw a bunch of "flakes" In the tub, like large dandruff.


None of them are scratching or twitching now, but their respiration (especially the angel) is fast. I dosed prazi again today.

Last time I dealt with flukes, I had to use clout (which worked really fast, but was really hard on the fish), because prazi didn't work. But this time the prazi seems to have a greater effect.

I didn't know fish will scratch while they heal, that is great to know

Glad I could offer some help:) Sounds like the big flakes are neobenedenia which is extremely common in saltwater aquaria. Unfortunately all 3 species of fish are highly susceptible to neobenedenia. I fought flukes for 6 months on my flame angel. I started with Prazi then went to formalin dips. Recently I bought a royal gramma that had flukes and after 2 rounds of Prazi they are gone so it can/does work.
As far as the scratching the fluke digs its' haptors (which are hooks) into the fish's skin so it doesn't get knocked off. The insertion site on the fish takes a while to heal. And just like our skin it itches while it's healing.

George9
02/19/2014, 06:54 PM
Flukes are the worst. My last case I also dealt with for 6 months, and the only survivor was my clown who is happy back in his home :)

But I'm crossing my fingers that the flame angel starts breathing more normally in the next couple days. She doesn't eat much at all like she used to.

These guys deserve a good home :) it's a shame so many become infected with various parasites before they make it to the aquarist

George9
02/19/2014, 07:20 PM
Do you think prazipro would make HLLE worse? Because that's what the angel has as well, I forgot to mention. I messed up with cheap crap carbon. All of this at once has been really hard on her.

Newsmyrna80
02/20/2014, 07:59 AM
Has her breathing settled down since her FW dip? It may take her a day or two to settle down. It took my gramma a couple of days before she would even look at me;)
I haven't seen any reports of Prazi causing HLLE and IME it did not. Are you offering her any Nori?

George9
02/20/2014, 08:50 AM
Usually she eats 90% NLS, so I dont feed nori too often, but when I do she doesnt eat much of it, if any at all.

Hopefully shell take to NLS pellets again soon when shes feeling up to it

Newsmyrna80
02/20/2014, 12:47 PM
It's good she's eating even if it is just a little. I had a hard time getting my angel to eat Nori but I soaked it in a little garlic and she ate it. I then started adding just a tiny bit of Selcon and she seems to like it.
While there is still quite a bit of debate of what actually causes HLLE some have said an unbalanced diet can be a culprit. Grazing on algae is part of an angels' diet so maybe this is contributing to her problem. I don't know...just throwing it out there:)

George9
02/20/2014, 03:32 PM
I tried some nori just now and everyone perked up! something I havent seen in them ever, im glad theyre taking to nori. Ive been meaning to find some veggie pellets for them. The angel almost took a pellet, but didnt quite eat it. And the tang only eats what the angek tries first lol. maybe tomorrow they'll be hungry for some more nls since its probably the best for them

They all are looking healthier and happier today, even though I know they arent healthy, its good to see they look better

Newsmyrna80
02/20/2014, 06:48 PM
Good to hear!

George9
02/21/2014, 04:29 PM
Hopefully they will continue to improve with the prazi! Today everyone looks completely normal, their coloring has dramatically improved and they're eating pellets again. But they are starting to scratch, which I now know could be a good thing, meaning they're healing

Newsmyrna80
02/22/2014, 10:29 AM
Could be..just keep an eye on their breathing and appetite. If there is any change I would do a FW dip to confirm flukes. If no flukes in dip I would continue to monitor in QT. Hopefully you have beaten this scourge.

George9
02/22/2014, 02:23 PM
Thanks for your help!

George9
02/28/2014, 04:29 PM
So far so good. No sign of flukes anymore. Good color, appetite is decent. I can't wait to get them to their new home. The flame angel and tang both have HLLE (my fault, thinking it's the carbon) and the tangs HLLE is getting a little worse. I've been feeding NLS, frozen food and upping the algae sheets until I can move them to the main tank where they will be happy.

Going to observe for another week, then do a FW dip on all of them to see where I'm at with these flukes.

George9
02/28/2014, 09:36 PM
I went ahead with the fw dips today, and looks like they're still around. The butterfly came out clean, but the angel had a few flakes come off. Would it be best to continue with prazi at this point or try something different?

Newsmyrna80
03/01/2014, 11:59 AM
Boy I hate to say this but if it was me I would put them into separate QTs. I would treat the butterfly with another dose of Prazi wait a week do another dip and see if anything come off. As long as the butterfly is exposed to the angel he is in danger of getting them. Then I would probably do a formalin dip on the angel and put into a clean tank. I would do another dip 5-7 days later since it will not kill the eggs. I had to do that with my flame angel.

George9
03/01/2014, 01:20 PM
oh geez, sounds so complicated! I do have another qt I could use, I'll set it up and move the angel there after I formalin dip her. Let's see how this goes...

Edit: I just found some general cure in the cabinet, I may try a dose of this before I go dividing them up. It may work.

George9
03/01/2014, 06:38 PM
I thought of a new game plan, based off of your suggestion. I'm going to try it if the general cure doesn't work.

It's pretty much the tank transfer method. I'll fw dip everyone for a long time, then put them into a different qt tank that is clean. Then, I'll fw dip them again and if they still have flukes, I'll do the same thing over.

My only concern is ammonia. This second tank won't be cycled, I'll probably use biospira to help, but it's going to be tough.

Do you think one tank transfer will be enough to break the cycle
Also, I can't really acclimate them after the fw dip, because that would defeat the purpose to put them back into infected water. Would matching salinity and temp be fine for a transfer from the fw dip to the new tank?

Newsmyrna80
03/01/2014, 07:31 PM
I thought of a new game plan, based off of your suggestion. I'm going to try it if the general cure doesn't work.

It's pretty much the tank transfer method. I'll fw dip everyone for a long time, then put them into a different qt tank that is clean. Then, I'll fw dip them again and if they still have flukes, I'll do the same thing over.

You can do this, however, it will not eradicate the flukes as the eggs are also laid on the fish...it's not like crypto.

My only concern is ammonia. This second tank won't be cycled, I'll probably use biospira to help, but it's going to be tough.
If you are going to transfer after 4-5 days it'll be ok. Just use something like Prime to lock the ammonia.

Do you think one tank transfer will be enough to break the cycle
No, you'll have to do at least 3
Also, I can't really acclimate them after the fw dip, because that would defeat the purpose to put them back into infected water. Would matching salinity and temp be fine for a transfer from the fw dip to the new tank?
Yes, just match the salinity and temp, just like in TT.

George9
03/01/2014, 08:16 PM
Thanks!!

George9
03/02/2014, 12:00 PM
I have the second tank up now, going to let things settle for a couple hours then ill move them. Probably going to do about 15-30 min fw dips if they arent too stressed. Im going to move a mediumish sized rock from the main tank into the filter so I have at least a little bacteria to break down waste

Newsmyrna80
03/02/2014, 07:19 PM
15-30 minutes is not necessary and it will be very stressful.

George9
03/02/2014, 08:08 PM
I ended up doing 10 for the tang, 20 on the angel and 16 for the butterfly to be sure all of the flukes fell off. I read somewhere online that it took about 10 minutes for some to fall off, but 30 minutes was a bit high. Glad I didnt go that route.

Theyre all settling in nicely and seem so much happier, the angel is eating pellets like mad and breathing is good.

Im hoping this is the end

Newsmyrna80
03/02/2014, 08:17 PM
If there are flukes in their gills a FW dip will not kill them. They bury themselves deeper into the gills. Did anything come off the butterfly?

George9
03/02/2014, 10:44 PM
yes some came off of the butterfly.

If they dont die when you do a fw dip, then whats the point?

Newsmyrna80
03/03/2014, 07:08 AM
External flukes will die but studies have shown that flukes that are in gills will bury themselves into the lamina to guard against the change in salinity. However, if they are not in the gills the dip will be effective.

George9
03/03/2014, 09:11 AM
Wow interesting. Im going to just observe for a week or so and then do anothet dip to see where im at then.

Newsmyrna80
03/03/2014, 10:41 AM
Sounds like a good plan

George9
03/03/2014, 08:25 PM
If none of the fish are twitching or scratching would that be a good thing meaning theyre not irritated, or a bad thing meaning theyre not healing?

Newsmyrna80
03/04/2014, 05:26 AM
The $100,000 question:) Since you got flukes off them I would say the healing process has not yet begun. Equate it to us when we get a cut. It doesn't start to itch for a few days depending on the severity of the injury.

George9
03/04/2014, 07:57 AM
I will keep an eye on it then :) im guessing theyre still recovering from the stress of the fw dip, ill just give them time.

salty joe
03/04/2014, 08:47 AM
If there are flukes in their gills a FW dip will not kill them. They bury themselves deeper into the gills.

Will FW dip with formulin do the trick?

Newsmyrna80
03/04/2014, 08:59 AM
Research has shown that a 5-10 minute dip is not enough contact time for the formalin to be effective.

salty joe
03/04/2014, 09:24 AM
If prazi doesn't always work and FW formalin doesn't always work, how about Prazi along with FW formalin timed to the fluke lifecycle? The old 'one-two'

Newsmyrna80
03/04/2014, 02:01 PM
When my angel was going through them I would do a formalin dip in saltwater then put into a clean tank with Prazi. Five days later another formalin dip and into a clean tank. I did this for 3 weeks. He was clean after that.

George9
03/04/2014, 03:19 PM
How long were the formalin dips?
And would something like "quick cure" work since it contains formalin or should it be straight formalin?

George9
03/04/2014, 08:26 PM
Oh also, over this next "observation week" what should I look for? I know now that twitching isn't always bad, but does fast breathing always mean that the flukes are present, or could that also be part of healing?

The angel has the best appetite she's ever had right now, the tang and butterfly are getting there, eating a litle, I think they're getting used to things still.

Newsmyrna80
03/04/2014, 08:48 PM
I actually prefer a Quick Cure over formalin. Depending on the species and the fish's health I would do no more than 30 minutes.
Breathing fast does not always mean flukes...could be stress, water parameters,etc. since you just did a dip give the fish some time to regroup. If they start hiding, piping, keeping their fins clamped then you may have to do something (formalin, etc)

George9
03/04/2014, 08:58 PM
I will keep an eye out :)

I did notice the baby tang had a little white thing popping in and out of its gill as it breathed. Almost looked like what a dead fluke would look like at the bottom of a fw dip container. Never seen this before, kinda strange. Possibly dead parasites falling off? Or am I living in dream land? haha

Edit: he likes to lay down and sleep, so im guessing now that its just something that wad on the tank bottom stuck to his gill

George9
03/07/2014, 03:55 PM
Ah man, first death. The butterfly passed today. He was fine this morning, but this afternoon I found him dead. Good news is the HLLE is healing on both the angel and the tang, just not sure about a plan of action yet. If I should keep watching, or dip and move. I haven't seen any fluke symptoms for a few days

Newsmyrna80
03/07/2014, 04:06 PM
Ah man, hate to hear that. Had he been breathing fast? Did you put him a FW dip after he passed? Flukes will vacate the fish shortly after it dies so there is a timing issue.
If it's been a week since their last dip I would do one and see if anything comes off.

George9
03/07/2014, 04:12 PM
I didn't do a fw dip after he passed, I should have :( poor guy, I wish Blue Zoo sent me healthy fish.

I will do another dip Sunday, that will be the one week mark.

George9
03/07/2014, 04:27 PM
The curiosity got to me, I did a very short dip on the angel only (40 sec) and nothing came off of her. So that's awesome news :)

I'm gonna do the tang in a few days

Newsmyrna80
03/07/2014, 06:11 PM
40 seconds is not long enough to produce osmotic shock. Two minutes is the minimum for an effective dip.

George9
03/07/2014, 07:16 PM
Perhaps it wasn't the best choice, BUT I redid the dip for 2 mins 20 sec. She showed no stress after the first one so I thought it'd be fine, and she's fine :) but the dip came out clean!!! so I'll just keep watching and see what happens when I dip the tang

If the tang comes out clean, I think I will do another couple treatments of prazi in 2 weeks, and then do a fw dip after I acclimate them to the big tank.

Newsmyrna80
03/07/2014, 07:27 PM
Sounds like a great plan!!

George9
03/10/2014, 08:35 PM
They're still looking pretty good today. The tang started eating flakes, I've never seen a fish go crazier for flakes before. And the HLLE sores are healing extremely fast still. The only thing is they still breathe kinda fast, I'm not sure if that's from stress of being in a smaller tank, or if it's the flukes themselves. I'm going to dip the tang next weekend and see, but so far I don't see any that symptoms besides fast breathing

Newsmyrna80
03/11/2014, 05:50 AM
It could be just from the stress

George9
03/13/2014, 07:01 PM
Im planning another fw dip for both of them tomorrow, then if everything is clean, ill put them back, and acclimate them to the big tank on sunday, then right before they go in, ill dip them again just to be sure.

I hope it goes okay, but I dont like keeping them in such a small tank if theyre clean and fine now, but if they dont come out clean ill have to treat again then

Newsmyrna80
03/14/2014, 04:14 AM
Sounds great! Keep us posted:)

George9
03/14/2014, 05:16 PM
Well I'm unsure. I dipped them both for 3 mins, maybe 20 seconds more than 3 mins because they're hard to catch.

One thing has me concerned, there was something floating on the surface, not sure if it's a fluke or not since it's floating, but will flukes generally float or sink? I used a paper towel in the bucket and it might be paper, but either way, one fluke isn't a bad outcome considering what they had 2 weeks ago.


Here's a picture I took, it's a terrible picture but I lost the thing after I took it. Not sure where it went. It's the white thing at the top of the bucket. It's the biggest white thing in there. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/3ypatary.jpg

Newsmyrna80
03/15/2014, 12:38 PM
If you are talking about the long thin object it's not a fluke:)

George9
03/15/2014, 01:18 PM
sorry that picture is horrible. I was talking about the small thing near the top of the bucket, it's a tiny white thing. I cropped the picture, but I don't think it will be any help lol. I'm just going to wait a week and do the same thing next friday, I shouldn't rush this because I've been burned once by flukes in the main tank before. I dosed a little bit of prazi since the flukes seem to be in decreased numbers (if they're there at all). Hoping next weekend will be the time!! They deserve a big tank full of things to explore :)


Also, I realized the cause of stress and heavier breathing. The salinity was so high, you don't want to know where it was at. It was 1.03!! Yikes. I'm bringing that down and will pay more attention to it.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/16/evapuju8.jpg

George9
03/15/2014, 03:01 PM
The tang is scratching on the heater again, not sure if that's good or bad, but only time will tell now I guess!

Newsmyrna80
03/15/2014, 07:02 PM
Yeah, it's hard to tell on that pic. You can bring the salinity pretty quickly. The high salinity could be the reason for the scratching.

George9
03/15/2014, 09:02 PM
I brought the salinity down to 1.025, and that's when I saw it, I suppose it could be from the change now that I think about it because she stopped doing it after a little while.

George9
03/17/2014, 02:41 PM
I just want to get your opinion on this. If on friday, the fish come out of the dip clean, but the tang still scratches, would it be safe to add them to the main tank?

Newsmyrna80
03/17/2014, 03:46 PM
When was the last time you did a dip on the tang and found a fluke?

George9
03/17/2014, 08:39 PM
it was last friday when I saw the possible fluke In the bucket.

Newsmyrna80
03/18/2014, 05:56 AM
Based on the unknown object found in the dip last week I would do another dip and see if anything comes off. You may have to wait 5-10 minutes after the dip. The longer the fluke is in freshwater the more opaque it becomes. If something does come off in the dip take a look at it through a microscope if possible. How is the fish acting? Is it eating ok?

George9
03/18/2014, 07:16 AM
The angel eats really well but the tang is hit or miss. I'm guessing because of the prazi, but the treatment ended last night so I think she will eat better today. The tang will also occasionally scratch too, I haven't seen the angel scratch

George9
03/18/2014, 05:13 PM
Do you think I should wait a full week to do another dip? Or should I do one sooner

Newsmyrna80
03/18/2014, 05:47 PM
I would wait the full week if not a little longer

salty joe
03/18/2014, 06:34 PM
Since flukes can 'hide' deep in gill tissue to avoid osmotic shock, is the only value of a FW dip temporary relief for the fish and to visually see if there's an active infestation?

Good luck George.

George9
03/18/2014, 06:43 PM
Okey dokie. Friday it is then. Fingers crossed for a clean dip!! Even if they come out clean I think I will wait until mid next week and then re do the dip to see if they're still fluke free, then I could add them to their new home.

George9
03/19/2014, 06:40 PM
Jesus, this tang is looking weak today. I feel horrible for the little guy, I can't think of anything else to do for it without ****ing him off even more. I hope I don't lose him, it'd be my 5th loss to flukes In the last year. :( The angel is doing really well on the other hand and she is very fat and strong, so I have high hopes for her.

I'm now only going to buy fish from Divers Den

Newsmyrna80
03/19/2014, 06:44 PM
Is the tang eating? Have you tried a formalin dip for the flukes?

George9
03/19/2014, 07:00 PM
she are like one piece of mysis, but whenever I feed she perks up like she wants to eat. I haven't tried a formalin dip yet, would that stress her out a lot like a fw dip? Is there a certain concentration I should go for? i will use quick cure as the formalin

Newsmyrna80
03/20/2014, 06:40 AM
she are like one piece of mysis, but whenever I feed she perks up like she wants to eat. I haven't tried a formalin dip yet, would that stress her out a lot like a fw dip? Is there a certain concentration I should go for? i will use quick cure as the formalin

If she's weak I wouldn't do the formalin yet. Is she eating any algae? When you did the dip did anything look like what is in the pic? These are 2 flukes on a microscope slide. How weak is the tang? Is it lying down? Breathing heavy?

George9
03/20/2014, 07:58 AM
Yes the fluke thing did look pretty much like the ones on the slide. She's not weak like she's about to die, but she's not as active as she usually is. But she does still swim around. Only laying in the corner when I spook her. Her breathing is a bit fast and it's always been that way since I got her, so I have no benchmark to compare her current breathing to.

Do you think repeated formalin dips would get rid of them once and for all?

Newsmyrna80
03/20/2014, 01:10 PM
Since she is in a weakened state you could do a lower dose of formalin or Quick Cure in a saltwater dip for maybe 15-20 minutes. This may knock out some parasites.

George9
03/20/2014, 01:14 PM
I will try that later today. I'm hoping that she's looking better today, I will see when I get home soon . Will I see the flukes fall off in the formalin dip too?

Newsmyrna80
03/20/2014, 03:00 PM
Are you using formalin of something like a Quick Cure? Since formalin is clear you may see them if you use a dark container. I wouldn't go fishing around in the dip. Formalin is highly noxious. If you are using Quick Cure then no you won't see them.

George9
03/20/2014, 05:55 PM
I used quick cure, I didn't expect to see any, and I didn't. But I did a 15 min dip about two hours ago. he's still a bit stressed. Hopefully it helped, I really can't wait to see this guy swimming in my dt!

Newsmyrna80
03/21/2014, 08:31 AM
How's he doing today?

George9
03/21/2014, 09:16 AM
It's doing better today! She's swimming around more with the angel, and perked up during feeding time. Except she didn't take too much food. The formalin dip definitely helped. I'm deciding between a fw or formalin dip for the angel today, I think I'll do a formalin dip on her too instead of a fw dip.

Edit: literally three minutes after I posted that, I went to check on the tang and her tail was stuck to the filter intake and she wasn't trying to get it off. Generally when that happens, it's not good. But we'll see. Fingers crossed :)

Newsmyrna80
03/21/2014, 12:44 PM
Oh dear. Not good. How is she now?

George9
03/21/2014, 01:33 PM
She is swimming around normally now, poor thing. Hopefully I won't find her dead in the morning.

Do you think I should bother with a formalin dip on the angel or should I just leave them alone? The angel has been doing the best of the two

George9
03/21/2014, 05:14 PM
I did the fw dip on the angel. It's not looking great. She had a few little black specks at the bottom of the bucket, and this weird thing that I have no idea what it is.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/22/3u3u7ehe.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/22/yqedyqu5.jpg

It's the tan speck In the net

George9
03/21/2014, 05:44 PM
Here's the black specs. It's not the best picture, but gives you a general idea .

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/22/y2udynyn.jpg

Newsmyrna80
03/22/2014, 06:16 AM
Pics didn't come through. Out of curiosity have you been keeping a record or calendar of the treatments, fish symptoms and behavior, etc? I find this is very helpful for diagnosing and treatments.

George9
03/22/2014, 08:08 AM
I haven't been keeping an official record, but this thread is pretty much my record since I post so much on it about my findings.

Odd that the pictures didn't show up.
270446
Did that picture work? It's the weird tan lump that I found I the dip container.

Newsmyrna80
03/22/2014, 08:19 AM
That is not a fluke. Is that the only thing you found in the dip?

George9
03/22/2014, 10:20 AM
No, while I didn't see any of the typical flakey looking white flukes In the bucket, I found about 5-6 small black specs. Are the black specs a different type of fluke?

Edit: just fed them some mysis and the tang is back to eating like it used to!! She must be feeling a little bit better.

How often could I repeat formalin dips? I'd like to do a lot of them over the next couple of weeks because they seem to be effective

Newsmyrna80
03/22/2014, 02:08 PM
Hard to tell what the black flecks are. There is such a thing as black ich. It is actually Turbellaria worms that Prazi takes care of. If this is the first time you have seen it I doubt that it is black ich. Glad she's eating like normal. That's a very good sign. I would do the formalin dips maybe every 5 days. This will give her time to get her strength built up but still kill recently hatched eggs before they can do any damage. You could actually wait a day or two longer depending on her health. Formalin is toxic stuff (basis formaldehyde) so I would do maybe one more dip and then observe.

George9
03/22/2014, 02:59 PM
Yeah this is the first time I've seen it I believe. Wouldn't I see black spots or something on the fish if it was?

She was practically eating out of my hand! Not sure what changed overnight, but I'm happy she's doing better.

Newsmyrna80
03/22/2014, 05:12 PM
You would have. Good to hear she's doing better.

George9
03/25/2014, 05:45 PM
I did a formalin dip with both of them today. Now should I just wait for a while and observe them? Or should I do regular dips to kill the flukes and break the life cycle?

Newsmyrna80
03/25/2014, 08:35 PM
How did they handle the dip? If they handled it ok I would wait another week and do another dip.

George9
03/26/2014, 06:34 AM
Okay, I will do that ! They handled it pretty well

Newsmyrna80
03/26/2014, 06:45 AM
Good!

George9
03/26/2014, 07:01 PM
I just made an impulse buy on divers den. This guy will be my last fish and will replace the poor raccoon that passed from flukes :( I plan on putting him in a separate qt, he shouldn't be diseased but who knows!

This is my new baby- he's just under 2"
271074

I don't see these indian teardrops very often, thought it would be a great addition to my collection
The picture attached twice. Not sure why.

Newsmyrna80
03/26/2014, 07:34 PM
Pretty fish

George9
03/27/2014, 11:42 AM
I'm just cleaning out my old qt tank to set it up again. I'm doing everything I can to make sure any fluke remaining is gone and the tank is sterilized. The tank itself sat with water for 3 and a half weeks without fish, so I'm hoping most of the flukes died then. If not, I'm running the filter with white vinegar and peroxide and hot water, and I rinsed the tank out with vinegar and peroxide and hot water numerous times. I'm letting the tank air dry.

Do you think it's safe to say the tank is sterilized after all this?

Newsmyrna80
03/27/2014, 05:33 PM
After 3 1/2 weeks you should be fine.

George9
03/27/2014, 09:09 PM
Thanks, I ended up using a little bleach on the tank and ran the filter for a short time with a little bleach. Made sure to use lots of seachem prime on it all and let it air dry. Should be clean.

The fish with flukes are eating better and better every day! These formalin dips are doing wonders. It's exciting to watch them get better so quickly

Newsmyrna80
03/28/2014, 01:45 PM
I'm so glad to hear that! Congrats!!

George9
03/28/2014, 06:04 PM
Will weekly formalin dips eventually get rid of the flukes all together do you think?



This little beauty is already eating like a champ! No signs of parasites so far :) hopefully this guy will be the first time I get a healthy fish sent to me.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/3epatanu.jpg

salty joe
03/28/2014, 07:05 PM
Nice fish and glad to see you having success.

When using Quick Cure for a formalin bath, should the dose be 1 drop to a gallon and a 30 minute treatment? Is that what you used?

Newsmyrna80
03/28/2014, 07:12 PM
Will weekly formalin dips eventually get rid of the flukes all together do you think?
yes
This little beauty is already eating like a champ! No signs of parasites so far :) hopefully this guy will be the first time I get a healthy fish sent to me.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/3epatanu.jpg
pretty fish

George9
03/31/2014, 03:24 PM
I just finished this weeks dips. I definitely saw a big flake in the container after the angel came out. How long do you think I should continue doing weekly dips?

Also, I was thinking of doing clout, but I know that's extremely stressful and I'm not sure they would come out of that strong

George9
03/31/2014, 03:26 PM
Nice fish and glad to see you having success.



When using Quick Cure for a formalin bath, should the dose be 1 drop to a gallon and a 30 minute treatment? Is that what you used?


I used 1 drop per half gallon since it would be a shorter time frame. I did the dips for around 10-15 minutes each depending on stress level.

Newsmyrna80
03/31/2014, 05:06 PM
I just finished this weeks dips. I definitely saw a big flake in the container after the angel came out. How long do you think I should continue doing weekly dips?

Also, I was thinking of doing clout, but I know that's extremely stressful and I'm not sure they would come out of that strong

Are you sure the big flake was a fluke?

George9
03/31/2014, 05:44 PM
I'm not 100% sure of course, but it wasn't there when I started. I guess it could have been something stuck to the net too.

Too many variables. It's hard to really zero in and be 100% sure

Newsmyrna80
04/01/2014, 04:25 AM
I can't remember but did you have a microscope or a magnifying glass? How are the fish acting? Any scratching, yawning, head shaking?

George9
04/01/2014, 01:23 PM
I don't have either of those :(

The angel shows no symptoms but the tang will scratch its head every now and then. Coloring and appetite is the best it's ever been though

Newsmyrna80
04/01/2014, 03:40 PM
Ok the next time you do a dip take a pic of the dip afterwards and post it here. Glad to hear the fish are doing good.

George9
04/01/2014, 08:25 PM
Will do :)

Thanks so much

George9
04/04/2014, 06:23 PM
I just read a thread on this forum with a ton of fluke Info, it the bottom it said it was prepared by Newsmyrna80, so you must have had something to do with it lol. But, it said that hyposalinity has been proven to kill juvenile and adult flukes in 2-5 days. Could I try this option to eradicate these fish?

If not, I was thinking about trying straight prazi, or just trying a more disciplined prazipro regimine. OR just keep doing the formalin dips, but I'm not sure how effective they are since i put the fish right back into infected water afterward.

There's too many options :(

George9
04/06/2014, 03:26 PM
I decided to fw dip them instead of using formalin to see where I'm at with the flukes.

The angel had one fluke thing come off of her, and the tang had one black spec, and one reddish spec, those could be poop because they're not white like the typical fluke.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/07/qyhuzevy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/07/u7yje3y2.jpg

It was near Impossible to get a clear pic

George9
04/06/2014, 05:54 PM
I'm sorry for posting twice, but after a certain amount of Time, I believe the edit option disappears.

Next weekend I plan on doing formalin dips with the fish, and moving them to a clean tank. I'll do this until they're all gone. I think this is the way you used you said, I can't remember how long it took you though

Newsmyrna80
04/06/2014, 08:55 PM
If that triangular shape object is the only thing that came off I would do what you plan on doing...one more formalin dip (same dosage and time as before). That object does not look like a fluke. Flukes are typically oblong or circular. I take it the little dots are air bubbles?

George9
04/07/2014, 07:14 AM
Yes the little dots are air bubbles. But the fluke was more of a flake of dandruff, not exactly circular, More of a random pattern. Could have been a piece of skin then I guess.

Newsmyrna80
04/07/2014, 07:27 AM
Yeah that's not a fluke. I've had those come off during dips and when I looked at it through the microscope it was nothing...it looked more like food or something. Definitely not a living organism.

George9
04/07/2014, 03:17 PM
Oh well that's good to know! Because those are the things that have came off in previous dips and I assumed they were! Doh!

George9
04/15/2014, 05:55 PM
I switched them to the second tank today. I realized the net touched the tank water, and it had water from the formalin dip on it. So that might have introduced flukes (not that the fish weren't anyway).

Hopefully they're going to be gone soon!!

Newsmyrna80
04/16/2014, 06:57 AM
Exactly...flukes are more likely on the fish than the net

George9
04/19/2014, 01:34 PM
are fw dips the only sure way to know if the flukes are gone? so if nothing falls off of them, does that mean they aren't infected, or that the flukes just burrowed deeper when exposed to the freshwater?

Newsmyrna80
04/19/2014, 07:14 PM
No it's not but the others are more invasive....skin scrapes, fin and gill clips. If nothing came off that's good. How is the fish acting? Hiding, coloration, breathing, scratching, eating, piping, hanging out in front of power heads, yawning, etc?

George9
04/19/2014, 08:06 PM
they're both really active, coloration is great. Breathing is a bit fast, but they are in a smaller tank. I haven't seen and scratching or yawning and they eat like pigs.

Maybe they're finally kicking the flukes off!!

Newsmyrna80
04/20/2014, 05:29 AM
All sounds very positive! I would be thinking about moving them:)

George9
04/20/2014, 03:09 PM
Moving them to the big tank? :)

Newsmyrna80
04/20/2014, 05:06 PM
Yep...if they're are not showing any signs and their dips have been coming out clean I would seriously consider it:)

George9
04/20/2014, 06:36 PM
Just so I'm 100% sure. Flukes are opaque and more roundish in shape, correct? Because I did see a dandruff looking flake but it was long and weird in shape, it had no particular pattern to it.


I think I'm going to put them through another round of prazi and at least one more formalin dip just to be sure. introducing flukes to the main tank could make my problem even worse.

Newsmyrna80
04/21/2014, 09:05 AM
You are correct. Flukes, once exposed to freshwater, become opaque. They do have a round/oval shaped. If you see something in the dip with jagged edges chances are it is not a fluke. I don't blame you for doing another round...better to be safe than sorry:)

las
04/23/2014, 01:01 PM
So just to make sure I'm doin this right, I dose prazi on day 1. Do a 25% WC on day 6 and dose prazi again at same dose. Then do 25% WC on day 11 and dose prazi again.

Day 16 WC and carbon to clean up meds. Sound like a good plan?

Newsmyrna80
04/23/2014, 01:08 PM
Sounds good

las
04/23/2014, 02:51 PM
Thank u very much

las
04/23/2014, 02:57 PM
Would u do a 20 min formalin bath after the prazi treatment? Or is that hard on the fish? I've got a regal angel and don't wanna do anything drastic

Newsmyrna80
04/23/2014, 06:41 PM
No to the formalin dip just yet. Formalin is very harsh on fish and Prazi is much gentler. Try the Prazi first. You may have to do more than two doses but it is much easier on the fish in the long run.

George9
04/24/2014, 08:52 PM
You are correct. Flukes, once exposed to freshwater, become opaque. They do have a round/oval shaped. If you see something in the dip with jagged edges chances are it is not a fluke. I don't blame you for doing another round...better to be safe than sorry:)


Sounds great! Probably a last formalin dip tomorrow, followed by a bunch of water changes to get them in some pristine water so I can fatten them up real good and kind of "condition" them for the big tank. Then, one more fw dip a week later to see if anything falls off. So far, looks like I've beaten these flukes. Fingers crossed everything goes as planned.

Thank you for sticking with my through all of this, I really appreciate it. I probably would have lost them all if it wasn't for you :)

Newsmyrna80
04/25/2014, 06:30 AM
Woohoo! Sounds like you are nearing the end:) Your plan looks good and I am keeping my fingers crossed for you and your fish! I'm very happy I could offer advice but you are the one that did all the work and persevered. Would post a pic of the fish once they get into their new home?

George9
04/25/2014, 01:15 PM
Yes Ill post some pictures when they're moved :) I can post some pics of them today too, but the horriffic lighting doesnt do much to show off their colors.

Im hoping being in the big tank will also heal the remaining HLLE too!! but its gotten a lot better

George9
04/25/2014, 02:48 PM
Here are the survivors :)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/enega4uq.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/2ubehupu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/e3udu4ud.jpg

The tank looks dingy but I leave the algae because they like to pick at it throughout the day. haha

I will post some once I move them in a week or so too :)

Newsmyrna80
04/26/2014, 10:20 AM
Lol my QT looks like that too! They look good...keep us updated:)

George9
04/27/2014, 05:51 PM
Ugh, saw the tang twitching again. Its possible shes been doing it all week and I just didnt see. Im hoping shes just healing since nothing unusual came off in the dip

Newsmyrna80
04/27/2014, 06:37 PM
Ugh, saw the tang twitching again. Its possible shes been doing it all week and I just didnt see. Im hoping shes just healing since nothing unusual came off in the dip

:angryfire: Let's hope that it is what it is..healing.

George9
04/27/2014, 07:29 PM
One more fw dip and we'll know for sure :)

If this dip comes out clean, but he still scratches, would it be safe to move him, or should I wait until the symptoms are 100% gone?

Newsmyrna80
04/28/2014, 06:01 AM
If after the dip he continues to scratch or twitch a lot I would not move him.

George9
04/28/2014, 09:36 AM
Well looks like he'll stay where he is for a few weeks until he stops scratching for good. Poor little dude

Newsmyrna80
04/28/2014, 02:54 PM
Yep...it sucks!

George9
05/01/2014, 06:02 PM
Well the symptoms are gone. I've been doing daily water changes and they seem very happy. The angel does at least, the tang is doing well too except he throws a fit whenever I get too close to the tank. Skittish little dude.

One more freshwater dip and if there's nothing then I'm 100% calling it that they're cured. Except I'll keep them isolated until they're ready to go and I feel confident about adding them.

Newsmyrna80
05/01/2014, 08:11 PM
Sounds good! I'm keeping my fingers crossed:) Post a pic of them in their new home please:)

George9
05/02/2014, 03:22 PM
Looks like another clean dip :) I had a bit of trouble with the angel. She jumped on to the floor. Her dip was compromised by a bunch of nori pieces that were stuck in the net. But besides the nori there was nothing suspicious.

Do you happen to have a picture of a fluke infested dip? I can't really find one anywhere online

Newsmyrna80
05/02/2014, 05:32 PM
Here's one I found...the pics are a little blurry but you get the general idea. Look at post #54.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260067&highlight=picture+of+flukes&page=3

George9
05/02/2014, 05:52 PM
Thanks so much. I can say I believe the fish are 100% cured. I didn't see anything at all that remotely looked like that picture. There was nothing in the container anyway lol.

Couple more weeks for observation and we should be good to go! So excited!!

Newsmyrna80
05/02/2014, 07:54 PM
That is good news!

George9
05/08/2014, 06:02 PM
As of now, I'm looking at moving them a week from Saturday. I'll do just one more fw dip to be 100% sure that they haven't been reinfected. Then I'll do another fw dip after I've acclimated them into the big tank, but before they go in.

I really hope I'm being careful enough about this, the last thing I need is for all of my fish to come down this flukes, I've already had to let the main tank sit fishless once last year. No more!!

Newsmyrna80
05/08/2014, 06:51 PM
Good plan! Have all the symptoms disappeared?

George9
05/09/2014, 06:52 AM
Yes they have. Havent seen any scratching or twitching. I plan on sitting and watching them for a long time this weekend to be 100% sure though

Newsmyrna80
05/09/2014, 10:41 AM
Good news!

George9
05/14/2014, 05:12 PM
stupid tang is scratching again!! I only saw it twice, and it wasn't a full flash, more like she turned on her side and touched the bottom. Either way, gotta wait longer! She has done this before a couple weeks ago too and nothing came off of her, so I'm guessing it'll be the same.

Just gotta wait for them to heal up!!

Newsmyrna80
05/14/2014, 07:13 PM
Ugh!! Aggravating!

George9
05/15/2014, 05:13 PM
Just as I suspected! The dip on the tang was clean! I did not do the angel yet, she wasn't scratching so I'll wait a little while on her.

Newsmyrna80
05/16/2014, 05:42 AM
Out of curiosity what is the pH of the QT?

George9
05/16/2014, 06:33 AM
I believe its around 7.8-8.0 which is where the tap water is at that I use. I havent checked in a while because it was always consistent, so I stopped.

Could pH be a problem?

Newsmyrna80
05/16/2014, 09:20 AM
I have read in an abstract on fish pathology that low pH can be the cause of fish scratching. I wish I could find which one it was. Anyway, the abstract referred to low pH as anything lower than 7.6. Your pH is fine. When are you dipping the angel?

Deinonych
05/16/2014, 09:24 AM
There is also anecdotal evidence that fish will continue to present phantom symptoms such as scratching well after they are cleared of parasites. I personally have not experienced this (every time I've had a fish flash, they have a parasite), but it's something to consider if no flukes are showing after a FW dip. Of course, this assumes the fish is confirmed to be free of other parasites like Cryptocaryon etc.

George9
05/16/2014, 09:42 AM
Im going to dip the angel later today. Hopefully nothing falls off of her either.

When I first got the fish, the tang came down with ich and I treated wirh cupramine for 4 weeks and that eradicated the ich I believe. But I havent seen spots ever since.

Newsmyrna80
05/16/2014, 01:32 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ich can be in the gills and never show any spots. Which begs to ask the question "How do I know the fish doesn't have ich?" Good question. But I would think after 4 weeks in copper at therapeutic levels should have taken care of it.

George9
05/16/2014, 01:43 PM
Well, im not sure which way to go then. I dont want to expose them to any more copper if I don't have to.

Its normal for ich to never show itself on the fish for months?

Newsmyrna80
05/16/2014, 02:39 PM
No...they usually show kind of signs. However, some fish can build up an immunity but I've read that it can last up to six months.
I don't blame you about the copper. You could always do TT which would take about 14 days and in the mean time you could still be dosing Prazi or just observing.

George9
05/16/2014, 05:26 PM
These fish are going to be the death of me!!

Im not sure that I want to take action with the ich because im not even sure it is ich, the only thing is the scratching and that could be anything. It seems whenever I medicate, their condition declines and they eat less and arent as active.

Ive had these fish since january, and havent sseen ich after the copper treatment...im just not convinced.

I think ill just extend my observation and up the water changes. I havent seen her scratch today at all.(yet!)

Newsmyrna80
05/17/2014, 06:10 AM
That's probably what I would do given that the only sign is scratching.

Deinonych
05/17/2014, 08:45 AM
Tank transfer is also an option if you want to be sure they are clear of crypto. It's not especially stressful for the fish and it only takes 12 days to complete.

George9
05/17/2014, 10:56 AM
In a way, I already did tank transfer when I switched the fish's tank about four times. I didnt do all of the steps for the ich tank transfer though. Ill have to look into that

Deinonych
05/17/2014, 04:32 PM
Yes, you need to switch tanks every three days (with full sterilization in between) to break the life cycle. It's a bit of extra work, but relatively straightforward.

George9
05/17/2014, 05:13 PM
It does sound like a ton of work :/

Could the scratching be from HLLE healing? I read another thread where someone had a tang with HLLE and it would scratch occasionally, someone else chimed in and had the same experience.

I'm not looking for every excuse possible to not have to treat ich, but there are a lot of possibilities I'm thinking

George9
05/18/2014, 12:44 PM
I dipped the angelfish. I have good news and bad news. Good news is that the dip was clean! Bad news is she jumped out of the net again, even when I covered it. She was on the floor for probably 20 seconds, I couldn't figure out how to pick her up, all her spines were out. But I finally flipped her into the net and she is okay, but breathing very very hard right now. I feel so bad, but I think she'll calm down.

Newsmyrna80
05/18/2014, 05:30 PM
Good news about the dip! I've had a royal gramma jump out of a dip. He was breathing hard for a while but recovered just fine.

George9
05/18/2014, 05:47 PM
Scares the heck out of me! she recovered fine and was eating minutes after the incident :)

Now, I think I'll just wait it out and watch the scratching with the tang. It only happens when I scare him and he hides behind the heater. It never happens when he's swimming happily and suddenly scratches.

Wait- maybe it's the heat from the heater that does it to him? Who knows!!

George9
05/23/2014, 12:52 PM
Im so tempted to move them this weekend. The angels breathing is normal, the tangs is fast but its because whenever im around she dashes and hides.

Ive had them about six months, and they have been med free for about a month. If I move them and they infect the big tank, im screwed. But I feel like other day theyre in a smaller tank, its not good for them in the long run.

Newsmyrna80
05/23/2014, 07:54 PM
Your not necessarily screwed. Some people have dosed their reef tanks so if catching them is a pain there is that option. I agree that keeping them in the QT is not good in the long run. If they've been med free for a month and their breathing is good I would be very tempted to move them.

George9
05/23/2014, 07:56 PM
Yes but I hate hate hate dosing the main tank with prazi even though it's so safe. I did it when I had flukes in there last year, and it didn't work anyway :( plus everyone in the tank is doing so well and I don't want to jeopardize their health

I'm going to see how it goes, I'm so reluctant. but if not this weekend, then definitely next!!

Newsmyrna80
05/24/2014, 07:30 AM
Lol I hear ya! I've never dosed the main...too much of a chicken:)

George9
05/24/2014, 10:53 AM
I did my second to last dip on the tang and again it's all good!! there are some super teeny brown/black specs, but I'm sure it's food. The angel will be dipped later today. I might move at least one of them on Monday. they'll receive one last fw dip right before they are moved.

Newsmyrna80
05/24/2014, 01:11 PM
Keeping my fingers crossed!

George9
05/25/2014, 11:02 AM
Well I believe today is the day the tang will be moved. I'm really worried about it, but I was worried last time I moved a fish I thought was clean, and he ended up being just fine.

I think after 3 fw dips and nothing coming off is enough evidence that they're clean.

Here goes nothing :)

Newsmyrna80
05/25/2014, 12:39 PM
Woohoo!! Did you do it yet?

George9
05/25/2014, 01:08 PM
I am getting everything ready to start with acclimation as we speak. I'm want to make sure that everything is sanitized and stuff. in a couple hours she'll be in :) she's earned a nice big tank to swim in :)

I'm going to observe the entire tank for a while and make sure that she didn't bring flukes in, her dips were always clean and I shouldn't have to worry but you can never be too careful

George9
05/25/2014, 02:13 PM
Also- quick question. When I dipped the angel, no flukes came off but there were some black spots. I found a picture of someone else's dip that resembles what came off of her.
In this picture there are white flukes as well, but my angel only had the black dots in her dip

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/usa4ebe6.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/nyzuza8a.jpg

Do you know of any parasites that are black besides black ich? It could it's be poo or food, but I wanted to be sure before I move her in a few days too.

So again- I don't have the white potato chip looking flukes, but only black tiny specs and it's only with the angel

George9
05/25/2014, 03:18 PM
Yay!! http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/utazery7.jpg

I had to zoom in a lot so I wouldn't scare her back into hiding. I can get some better pics when she's more comfortable

Newsmyrna80
05/25/2014, 05:54 PM
The pic didn't come through. Could you repost? I'd like to see her in her new home. I don't know of any parasite other than black ich that is black. It probably is just poop, food or "garbage". There's all kinds of stuff that is in the bottom of the bucket after a dip.

George9
05/25/2014, 06:31 PM
She's been out a lot now! She keeps trying to be friends with everyone and play, but they're all swimming away from her. It's so funny

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/penema6u.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/8avyqu2e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/26/sa8y6y4y.jpg

It's so nice seeing her swim around all happy :) it's an even better feeling knowing I saved her.

She hasn't twitched or scratched at all which is good. It should stay that way

She also swam right up to the surface to eat with the others, except she spit it out which is unusual for her. But I'll Give her some time to settle in

Also, let's say this fish did being flukes into the tank. Do you know how long it would take to see symptoms in the other fish just so I can watch. But that's obviously worst case, and it shouldn't have to worry.

Newsmyrna80
05/26/2014, 06:11 AM
Congrats!! It is a good feeling when they finally make it into the main:) If she did bring in flukes (which she did not) I would say symptoms could appear anywhere from 2-6 weeks. It could take longer depending on how well the fish tolerate flukes. I'm sure you'll be keeping a close eye on them:)

George9
05/26/2014, 02:12 PM
I will keep an eye on it! But I believe I took every precaution necessary.

The poor angel must be sad she doesnt have a friend, she didnt eat as much today.

Newsmyrna80
05/27/2014, 04:40 AM
:( it can happen. My angel was a wreck when I took his Blenny buddy out of the QT.

George9
05/27/2014, 05:41 PM
That's funny that they do that just like people! The angel is eating well again today

it'll only be a little while longer until they're reunited.

So far so good with the tang!! She is too timid to take food, she comes up in the frenzy but frequently swims back. She got a pellet yesterday but spit it out, which is odd because it was her favorite food in qt. I'll give her some more time but hopefully she'll get some soon because she probably can't go too without eating due to her size

Newsmyrna80
05/28/2014, 01:31 PM
She'll be eating soon. It's just getting used to its new home.

George9
05/30/2014, 06:38 AM
Shes has been eating pretty well now and seems very happy with her new friends. I didnt realize how social these fish were.

Next week I will move the angelfish to the main tank too :) .

Newsmyrna80
05/30/2014, 11:01 AM
Yay!!!

George9
06/01/2014, 07:26 PM
Exciting news to report! The angelfish is in the big tank! She isn't hiding too much, and seems to be fitting right in. She is a bit stressed, and her tail is a tad beat up from the freshwater dipping. Those aren't fun, and she had 2 dips this weekend. Just needs some recovery time.


I'm so excited that everyone is healthy (i think) and now I can just focus on one tank.


I haven't seen any fluke symptoms. But I'm so worried I will see them soon. So far so good though. Let's hope it stays this way now that the angel is moved.

One thing I noticed though is she's the only fish who let's the cleaner shrimp clean her. I've seen the shrimp on her a few times and it kinda makes me worried...

I'll post some pics of the angel tomorrow

Newsmyrna80
06/01/2014, 07:45 PM
Congrats!! Looking forward to the pics:)

George9
06/02/2014, 02:38 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/a7y6ube4.jpg

Here she is!!

Newsmyrna80
06/03/2014, 04:49 AM
Pic didn't come through

George9
06/03/2014, 08:07 AM
weird, I don't know why that always happens to me. Does it work now?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/atuhe4em.jpg

George9
06/05/2014, 05:15 PM
I noticed the angel has been chasing and picking on the little butterflyfish a bit. Seems like she's getting too comfortable. I'm hoping they're just figuring out who's in charge between them and it'll settle on its own.

las
06/10/2014, 03:28 PM
Just want to say that the instruction newsmyrna gave me for prazi treatment worked like a charm and my regal angel ate like a champ also.

4 rounds of prazi. I redosed every 6 days with a 25% water change. Worked great.

George9
06/16/2014, 06:26 PM
Congrats!!!


I had to rehome the flame angel, she would not leave the butterfly alone, and gave him a few scars :(

The tang is doing well! I see no signs of disease except today I saw the butterfly scratch a couple times within 15 seconds. I didn't see it after that though, I'm thinking it was just something bothering his gills. And if something was really wrong, the tang would have been scratching too (which it wasn't)

marin8n
07/08/2014, 07:11 AM
So I've been fighting flukes in my QT with 3 BFF (Black Pyramid, Pearlscale, and Auriga). Did a 10 min FW dip on the BP and PS last night. A few came off the Pearlscale and a TON came off the BP. The Auriga had some growth under it's mouth so I started it with a 90 min Paragard dip that it seemed to handle very well. I followed that immediately with a 10 min FW dip and the fish died about an hour later. Is that a big no-no to go from a Paragard dip directly to a FW dip? QT is also on week 3 of Cupramine treatment for ich.

Newsmyrna80
07/08/2014, 07:38 PM
I'm sorry about your butterfly. So I understand, you took the Auriga out of copper put it into Paraguard then did a FW dip then put it back into copper? May have been too much stress on him with all those dips. I take it since you are treating with copper that you have confirmed they have ich?

marin8n
07/11/2014, 07:31 AM
That's correct. He may have been too far gone and all that ended up being too much for him. I saw a few spots on the tail of the black pyramid so I started cupramine about 3 weeks ago. I perform prophylactic treatment on all fish for crypt as part of my QT regimen anyways. After FW dips 3 days ago, I did a water change and 10 min FW dips again last night on the Pearlscale and Black Pyramid and only a fluke or two came off. I redosed the prazi at 1.5tsp/10gal and both fish seem to be handling it well. I will do the same in 3 days to try and make sure I get any eggs as they hatch as I believe these are the egg laying variety. That sound like a good plan from your experience?

Newsmyrna80
07/11/2014, 08:21 AM
I personally do not use copper so I can not speak to that. But the dosage for Prazi is 1 tsp/20 gallons. You are overdosing them. I would do a water change to reduce the level of Prazi. Then wait 5 days do a small water change and dose again.

marin8n
07/11/2014, 08:25 AM
I went with the higher dose from the advice of one of the Hikari techs. I already ran 3 rounds of prazi at the recommended dosage with the WC every 5 days and the flukes came back. That was before I was doing the FW dips as well so I want to knock these things out with the combo. Cupramine/prazi combo hasn't been an issue for me unless the Cu somehow reduced the effectiveness of the prazi?

Newsmyrna80
07/12/2014, 06:56 AM
Ah, ok. I got the same recommendations from them last year when I had a case of very Prazi resistant flukes. Prazi in the end did not eliminate the flukes. I had to go with the formalin dips. I fought those things for six months prior to the dips.
Are you still occasionally doing FW dips? If so, have you seen/identified flukes and if so what did they look like? I ask because at this point if you can positively id the culprit you can formulate a plan based on the life cycle of the specific fluke family.

marin8n
07/14/2014, 08:57 AM
Yes, doing FW dips when I make the water change to redose. So every 5 days is the plan with my 2nd megadose/dips set for tomorrow. First time I saw lots of flukes come of during the FW dips. 2nd time only a few. They look like little opaque flakes, like a translucent sesame seed. So the formalin dips finally did it for you? Can you describe how that works exactly and how would I transition from the treatment I'm doing now?

las
01/24/2015, 05:56 PM
Marin,

Was the 1.5 tsp per 10 gallon dose safe on the fish or did it cause problems?

las
01/30/2015, 11:32 PM
Is the 1.5 tsp dose per 10 gallon safe?