Bio reactor effluent

[JWClark]

Considering adding a bio reactor on my build and I know the convention is to run the output from the reactor into the protein skimmer to remove the bacteria that are knocked off. I was thinking of running the output to the return pump so the bacteria move through the display tank before getting skimmed out.

Is there any downside to this? Figured this would provide some food for filter feeders.

Also, if I am starting with a brand new set up then I would imagine I could immediately start w/ the amount of pellets I plan to run instead of ramping up, correct?

Still debating running a DSB w/ a plenum too. Would this be counter productive w/ a bio reactor--do I even need it (the bio reactor)? Last tank was great w/ a plenum DSB but was only up two years before I had to move (this was before bio reactors existed).

Plan to have a mixed tank and, eventually, a few SPS in a year or two.

[Dr]

I think the problem with running the pellet reactor output to the return pump is running the risk of a cyano outbreak. You are adding a food source for the good bacteria to help out with the tank nutrients but you can also encourage the growth of bad bacteria also. I run a recirculating pellet reactor now so there is control over input tumble rate and output. Originally started using a hydra aquatics reactor and the cyano blew up in my tank. Not sure about the DSB, never used one.

[JWClark]

That was what I was thinking. If I could ensure the bacteria would flow through the display back to the sump and out the skimmer in one pass then I thought any filter feeders would love the opportunity to feed--disregarding whether they even feed on these types of bacteria.

Was planning on getting the bio reactor from lifereef w/ my sump but not sure if you can control tumble seperately from flow (have read elsewhere that this is the way to go as well). Half tempted to not use it--didn't need it then so why now. Only issue I ever had was PO4s as I was using a simple tap water filter. Got a nice spectrapure maxcap now.

[mcgyvr]

IMO...The faster you can get that "knocked off " bacteria (and what it has eaten) out of the tank the better.

[Dr]

If you run a pellet reactor the amount of food you will be able to feed will be crazy so there would be no need for the pellet effluent to run through the DT. what size tank are u setting up?

[JWClark]

Makes sense. Setting up a 125 with 13 gal refugium and the sump--just under 150 in total volume. Last tank was a 55 (12 yrs ago).

Any ideas on heaters you can mount horizontally in an acrylic sump? All the heaters I can find have suction cups and I'm afraid they will eventually slip and melt a hole in the sump (would rather not have the heaters in the display but may have to).

[Dr]

Not sure about that one. Never used an acrylic sump.

[klwheat]

I use a couple of these in my 210. Just lay them flat on the bottom and use the suction cups to keep them from sliding. The grating over the heating element keeps it off the sump.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19658

[JWClark]

Nice, hadn't seen that one. Thanks.

[JWClark]

So if I use the bio-reactor at initial set up I can immediately start w/ the amount of bio-pellets I think I will need, correct? Just need to wait for the system to mature (get colonized).

Also, any difference in bio-pellet brands?

[viggen]

I would suggest at least watching Jeff M from Reef Dynamics video on the bio pellet reactors. From what he says.... return from a pellet reactor must go to a skimmer otherwise algae outbreak

I have been using acrylic sumps for almost 25 years now and never have had any melting issues on my acrylic sumps.

[CW from the OC]

If a new setup, and you are going to cycle it as well, no reason to not go with all the pelletts you want. The main issue with ramping up too fast on pelletts is when they strip all NO3 and PO4, stressing or killing the corals.

You still need to pay attention, however. After the cycle, and the bacteria snow-storm, you might strip the nutrients right as you start adding corals. So before you add corals, you'll want to reduce the amount of pellets and target low but detectable levels. I like to use PO4 as the prime indicator, and target 0.03 to 0.08.

I believe that most of the problems reported with pelletts are caused by haphazardly throwing them into a reactor. Just like vodka or vinegar, they need to be "dosed", and the dosage needs to be adjusted based on tested levels as well as the appearance of the corals, presence of nuisance algae, and how long algae takes to appear on glass.

[trinidiver]

I posted this in Dec last year. I have a 200+gal reef that is going on 29-30 mths. I have over 25 different types of corals like zoas, leathers and LPS.......not much SPS. I started using biopellets from the
4th or 5th mth mainly to feed my corals. Within those first mths my nitrates was always around 10-15. One mth before I started running the pellets, I started dosing vodka so as to allow the corals to adjust, and also hoping not to get a big algae bloom from what I have heard about the use of pellets. I slowly increased from 10mls up to 25mls daily within that mth. When I hooked up the pellets, I maintained it for about a week and within the next 3 wks I gradually decreased the dosage down to 5mls until I just stopped. The pellets fully picked up the slack and have been running it ever since. The strange thing is, the manufacturers recommends that the output of the reactor should be directed at the skimmer. I did it different from day one. I have my reactor outlet dumping into my chamber for my Mag18 return pump (which sends the biopellets bacteria strait into my display). My skimmer is an ASM-G3 and is in my first chamber of my first sump right where my main tank overflow dumps my water. I have never had a bacterial bloom or any cloudy water which I have heard many people complain about. Even some of my personal friends complained and cant understand my luck. My Nitrates has never been high after that and I have had fantastic growth with all my corals. I don't even spot feed my corals and all my corals in my pics were bought as small frags. I have no complaints. I have close to 300lbs of actual live rock and was cycled in a large water tank with about 2000lbs more live rock which was taken from the ocean. Everyone has their views on bio-pellets. This is mine. No complaints what so ever.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...3#post22228773

[trinidiver]

To this day I have never gotten cyano in this tank

[Chicago]

Not sure if I have cyno. It's more like a thiker film. Not quite algae and not a cyno. Al,ost like a thin layer of detritus on y rock. But my calcium was low. So waiting for the coralline algae to start back up. I can say this. My phophates are to detectable.

[Chicago]

Was out of town for a week. Came back and my reactor is off line. Looks like something went over board and clogged the intake in the reactor . Looks like its caked with white cake deposits. Like calcium or soda ash. Will try to post pics.. What is this stuff. http://http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/F50223D4-1C18-4212-8C17-66F01E0F8D2F.jpg

[Dr]

Bio film. Is the reactor exposed to light?

[Chicago]

Yes. Taking about the stuff not n the cylinder wall. On the bottom n
Intake strainer in picture. That's. Bio film. Wow. Really. That much. Gets produced.

[Dr]

Believe so. I had the same problem. It would clog the output line also. Had to replace my output line about every two months. Limited the amount of light that was on the reactor and have not had that problem.

[Chicago]

Really how does the light effect bio film . Can I take it off line. But if I do. How do I keep bio balls active. Can I store them? And how?

[Dr]

Not sure how. You can just empty the pellets into a cup with the tank water, clean the reactor and start it up again.

If it's going to take a while to clean the reactor store them without water. Problem is with this you will have to start over.

[Chicago]

Funny thing is. Tank is looking better. Might cut it in half.

[Chicago]

Do some bio balls create more film ?

[Dr]

Not sure. I've only used BRS pellets.

[Tweaked]

They are not all created equal. I have tried a few brands, and really like the balls from coralvue.

[Chicago]

just took it apart.. I can say that some of this crude is very soft.. but in other places it is very hard like calcium deposits.. I am soaking the elbows and other pieces in vinegar now. bio pellets in bucket. lots of film in the bucket with the bio pellets. Do others have an opinion on whether reactors tend to get caked faster with calcium deposits ?

or once the bio pellet reactor goes to slow the bio film becomes hard and crust like. ?

to sum it up.. the crude on the intake strainer was soft and could be washed off with strong water.. the other cake like material in the elbows and inside near pump intake are hard like scale. similar to calcium deposits.

[JWClark]

I did it different from day one. I have my reactor outlet dumping into my chamber for my Mag18 return pump (which sends the biopellets bacteria strait into my display). My skimmer is an ASM-G3 and is in my first chamber of my first sump right where my main tank overflow dumps my water. I have never had a bacterial bloom or any cloudy water which I have heard many people complain about.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...3#post22228773

Glad I looked back at this. This is exactly what I am planning to do from day one. If you think logically about it, the knocked off bacteria won't "add" anything to the tank environment as long as they are removed after a pass through the display. It is when the bacteria is not removed or eaten by filter feeders that it becomes and issue, I would think.

I'll be using a lifereef 150S sump w/ the lifereef skimmer so I would imagine that my skimmer will be efficient enough to remove bacteria that were not eaten. DT flow will be maintained by 2 Tunze 6105s on top of the turnover w/ the sump so I don't think I will have any real dead spots that bacteria could possibly accumulate in.

I'd be willing to bet, too, that starting w/ this set up from day one during the cure period will increase the chances that this will still be an effective use of the bio-reactor. I can see how trying this on a one year old tank may pose an issue (though it sounds like you came up w/ a possible patch to ease into it).

Being in the Army, I may have to "disappear" for some time, in which case, my 12 yr old son would be in charge of the tank (he is more attuned to taking care of living things than my wife is). The goal is to have as little maintenance work as possible--like spot feeding corals.

The tank is a 125g long w/ ATI sunpower T-5s. Looking forward to set-up at the end of August (knocking out a course this summer that has me away from home).

[moondoggy4]

Makes sense. Setting up a 125 with 13 gal refugium and the sump--just under 150 in total volume. Last tank was a 55 (12 yrs ago).

Any ideas on heaters you can mount horizontally in an acrylic sump? All the heaters I can find have suction cups and I'm afraid they will eventually slip and melt a hole in the sump (would rather not have the heaters in the display but may have to).

I have a 300 Finnex titanium heater that has two rubber rings so the heater can lay flat and not on the sump or an electric cord and melt it.

[moondoggy4]

http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CmoxZAbhmU8SEJ9Gp-gOShoDwBuPKicgEs7q1q5gB7NnkgeEBCAYQBCC2VCgEUJvZ3bf9_____wFgyZbrhsijkBmgAZ2qi9kDyAEHqgQmT9CXI27mSgywD Zm1f-RNj2vhcWxCk9Z8E1r6Z6TU1VVKLDG97taABZBOwAUFoAYmgAfL1fQmkAcC4BLn-uqv0-3z3_EB&sig=AOD64_2NiPnxKqqFoUZKusqf_Fv9JIjGow&ctype=5&ved=0CIsBEPQO&adurl=http://www.advancedreefaquarium.com/Finnex_300W_Deluxe_Titanium_Heating_Tube_only_p/Fi-TH-0300.htm this one glitch

[moondoggy4]

http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CmoxZAbhmU8SEJ9Gp-gOShoDwBuPKicgEs7q1q5gB7NnkgeEBCAYQBCC2VCgEUJvZ3bf9_____wFgyZbrhsijkBmgAZ2qi9kDyAEHqgQmT9CXI27mSgywD Zm1f-RNj2vhcWxCk9Z8E1r6Z6TU1VVKLDG97taABZBOwAUFoAYmgAfL1fQmkAcC4BLn-uqv0-3z3_EB&sig=AOD64_2NiPnxKqqFoUZKusqf_Fv9JIjGow&ctype=5&ved=0CIsBEPQO&adurl=http://www.advancedreefaquarium.com/Finnex_300W_Deluxe_Titanium_Heating_Tube_only_p/Fi-TH-0300.htm Second glitch won't let me post a link

[JWClark]

Thanks. How do you control? I assume I can control w/ an Apex.

[moondoggy4]

Yes you can control the heater with the Apex or Ranco and Finnex makes a model as well.