Reef tanks that had Ich

[asmodyus]

So if a reef tank had an ICH outbreak can fish be added later? Also when can fish be added? Also fish going into a tank that had ICH should they be QT longer than Normal?

[snorvich]

After the tank is without fish (fallow) for 72 days, it is safe to add fish. Any fish, whether or not it has had ich, should be quarantined. Tank transfer will eliminate the possibility of ich, one additional month will allow for the fish to acclimate and for you to observe whether it has any other issues.

[asmodyus]

After the tank is without fish (fallow) for 72 days, it is safe to add fish. Any fish, whether or not it has had ich, should be quarantined. Tank transfer will eliminate the possibility of ich, one additional month will allow for the fish to acclimate and for you to observe whether it has any other issues.

Well because of the Rock scape and Coral the none of the fish were able to be quarantined the the tank as never ran fish less since the outbreak.

My question is bringing new fish in a tank that had an ICH outbreak.

[Lostinthedark]

Its best to quarantine if you can but if its already too late the best way to deal with it is to keep the stress down. A lot of tanks run with ich. They also have a host of other parasites as well. They usually lurk in the back ground until something stresses the fish and their immune system weakens to the point where they can't fight it. Go very slow and don't overcrowd the tank. Make sure your tank is stable for a few months then add fish from the least aggressive first to the most aggressive last. And....Go slow

[snorvich]

Well because of the Rock scape and Coral the none of the fish were able to be quarantined the the tank as never ran fish less since the outbreak.

My question is bringing new fish in a tank that had an ICH outbreak.

If you have never had 72 days of fallow, your tank still has ich. I suggest not adding new fish as they will get ich eventually.

[Lostinthedark]

Also fish going into a tank that had ICH should they be QT longer than Normal?

Quarantine is a "All or none" thing. If you don't quarantine everything that goes into your tank your not going to accomplish much.

[asmodyus]

If you have never had 72 days of fallow, your tank still has ich. I suggest not adding new fish as they will get ich eventually.

From my understanding that pretty much all tank have ICH in them fallow is a pipe dream for most tanks that have a large coral system from what I am reading.

So I just want to know the best steps on introducing any new fish in the tank that once had an outbreak and how long to go before introducing them and how long the fish should be quarrantied before being introduced into a tank that had ICH

Go very slow and don't overcrowd the tank. Make sure your tank is stable for a few months then add fish from the least aggressive first to the most aggressive last. And....Go slow

Got go Slow maybe 1 or 2 fish every couple of months until tank is done. Also how long is the Best QT 4 weeks or 6 weeks?

[Lostinthedark]

In your case quarantining would be more for the sake of getting the fish eating and treating it for any bugs it may be bringing in. This is great for fattening him up and getting him ready. Six weeks would be best.
I do agree with you that most people have ich in there tanks but they never know it as long as the husbandry is maintained. Its when something goes wrong like a broken heater or a black out causes sudden changes where ich might take over and cause more damage. IMO once a tank is established and everything is running right, Ich is not an issue.
I feed my fish first before adding anything. Cuts aggression. Then lights out. As long as you don't overcrowd them or add anything too aggressive I don't think you'll have a problem.

[snorvich]

From my understanding that pretty much all tank have ICH in them fallow is a pipe dream for most tanks that have a large coral system from what I am reading.


Sorry, that is not correct. All tanks do not have to have ich if the owner of the tank understands proper protocol to avoid it. Ich is a parasite that does not initially kill but will eventually overwhelm then kill.

[asmodyus]

Sorry, that is not correct. All tanks do not have to have ich if the owner of the tank understands proper protocol to avoid it. Ich is a parasite that does not initially kill but will eventually overwhelm then kill.

That from what I understand is a highly debatable subject as there seems to be science proving both theories of in the tank from the fish even after ten to twelve weeks of treatment within a quarantine tank, and leaving the main tank to lay fallow people still encounter Ich.

In your case quarantining would be more for the sake of getting the fish eating and treating it for any bugs it may be bringing in. This is great for fattening him up and getting him ready. Six weeks would be best.
I do agree with you that most people have ich in there tanks but they never know it as long as the husbandry is maintained. Its when something goes wrong like a broken heater or a black out causes sudden changes where ich might take over and cause more damage. IMO once a tank is established and everything is running right, Ich is not an issue.
I feed my fish first before adding anything. Cuts aggression. Then lights out. As long as you don't overcrowd them or add anything too aggressive I don't think you'll have a problem.

Thanks I will try that I'm just more worried about added any tangs as they seem be highly prone to.

Couple of people told me to add Ich resistant fish so added a Mandarin Goby and a Blue throat trigger but both are suppose to be highly resistant to ich and neither one of got them after a couple weeks of QT.

So I figure to see what to do about fish that would be highly prone. So basically just make sure there nice in healthy in the QT after a while and than add them to the main tank and hope they don't get stress out and get all Ichy.

[snorvich]

That from what I understand is a highly debatable subject as there seems to be science proving both theories of in the tank from the fish even after ten to twelve weeks of treatment within a quarantine tank, and leaving the main tank to lay fallow people still encounter Ich.


Great, please provide a reference.

[asmodyus]

Great, please provide a reference.

http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/CuringIch.htm

First Paragraph.

Now like I said this not my opinion I just read a lot of back and forth about ICH being always present in fish or in tank.

[asmodyus]

Great, please provide a reference.

After Doing a lot more research in the last hour I have come to the same conclusion as you that its only comes in from the fish and can be eradicated but there is some instance of ich coming back in a tank after treatment that let people believe that it always in the tank but this could be from improper treatments or not being effective for some reason.

[snorvich]

http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/CuringIch.htm

First Paragraph.

Now like I said this not my opinion I just read a lot of back and forth about ICH being always present in fish or in tank.

Thanks, this is for fresh water ich which is a completely different animal.

[snorvich]

After Doing a lot more research in the last hour I have come to the same conclusion as you that its only comes in from the fish and can be eradicated but there is some instance of ich coming back in a tank after treatment that let people believe that it always in the tank but this could be from improper treatments or not being effective for some reason.

Sigh. Yes, improper treatment results in the ich "disappearing" due to the life cycle and then, reappearing, because it was not properly eradicated.

[Paul B]

Don't worry Snorvich, I am staying out of this one. :beer:

[slojmn]

I think a healthy tank can "have" ich and the fish will be fine, no outward symptoms, but its only a matter of time. I have gone years and years without ever having an ich "outbreak". Chances are its been in the system or introduced at some point on a fish or coral as suddenly I had an outbreak in February. There was no fighting it once it took a hold of a few fish, covered them. I tried bolstering feedings, Vit. C, nothing helped. Now every fish is in QT, even the ones that seemed fine. I feel it was the only chance my fish had once I saw it take over in a three weeks. I tried the wait and see method...I should have jumped on it in February. Oh well, now the fish are residing in their new digs and the main tank will be fish-less for 3-4 months. Harsh, but I feel its the only way to really get my main display healthy and free from the parasite. I do think people live with ich for sure. Once it gets a hold though there really seems to be no fighting it in the display. Just my opinion though.

[snorvich]

Don't worry Snorvich, I am staying out of this one. :beer:

Thanks. I am not sure why the post at all then?

[snorvich]

I think a healthy tank can "have" ich and the fish will be fine,

As I said before, we have to agree to disagree. I believe, as does PaulB, that healthy fish nutritionally cared for, are a good thing. I do not believe it totally isolates them from ich. Your current problem illustrates that; I am certain your fish were well cared for.

[Paul B]

Thanks. I am not sure why the post at all then?

Just to say Hello. :beer:

[snorvich]

Just to say Hello. :beer:

Greeting to you too!! :) I hope your winter in the NE was better than ours in the Midwest. By the way, do you ever try to rear the offspring of your fish?

[Paul B]

Not for quite a while. I have a pair of clown gobies that spawn every 2 weeks and I built a collection device but I think they are even to small for rotifers. The mandarins also spawn but they just broadcast the eggs so I can't find them. The bluestripe pipefish babies are also kind of small and I can't find them.

[MrTuskfish]

[QUOTE=snorvich;22533855]As I said before, we have to agree to disagree. I believe, as does PaulB, that healthy fish nutritionally cared for, are a good thing. I do not believe it totally isolates them from ich. Your current problem illustrates that; I am certain your fish were well cared for.[/QUOTE

Yes.
This forum section has new threads almost daily from folks who have found that "managed" ich tanks will almost always become a nightmare. This is an area where long-time hobbyists may have a real edge and I hate to play the experience card, but it needs to be done on this topic.

[Chicago]

I had to go fallow last year.. lost a lot of nice fish.. some survived because they were pulled and QT in local store tank.. I think I had ick all along.. It started when I removed the gravel bed in the DT. I have a large sump so no issue with removing it from a biological stand point.. regardless.. not a smart move.. I think the stirring and removal did something.. released or stress the fish.. so got ick and then had to go fallow.. however after months of fallow and returning the fish after QT.. ick is seen here and there now in my tank..in otherwords I have ick again. .. the fish fight it off.. but I know it is there.. have seen it for months in my hippo tangs of course. a few spots here and there.. wake up every morning to see if they have more than a few. some weeks seen nothing .. then for days in a row.. see a few on each tang..
Tank still looks great.. I am not a true believer that 72 days is enough. I have been in the hobby for 20 plus years.. The key is to go slow.. do not stress the fish.. and QT QT. Wash those nets.. no water from LFS ever touch the tank..your nets without cleaning ect. I am almost to the point as if it is a deadly contagion.. and yet.. I have it back in my tank..

[LouisianaReefer]

From what I understand, ich can come into a system on frags or snails. For folks having a tank sit fallow for 10+ weeks with a reoccurrence, is it possible that a frag or snail is added during this period to reintroduce the parasite?

Also, I did a copper treatment for my fish for 1 month to treat for ich. I did a water change and ran carbon to remove the remaining medicine from my Qt. If the ich were to "bounce back" while the fish are in the Qt tank, how long should I expect before the symptoms reoccur?

[Deinonych]

From what I understand, ich can come into a system on frags or snails. For folks having a tank sit fallow for 10 plus weeks with a reoccurrence, is it possible that frag or snail is added during this period to reintroduce the parasite?

Also, I did a copper treatment for my fish for 1 month. I did a water change and ran carbon to remove the medicine from my Qt. If the ich were to "bounce back" while the fish are in the Qt tank, how long before it would be expected before symptoms reoccur?

Yes, crypto can "ride in" on a frag or snail. It happened to me.

As far as post-treatment observation goes, 4 weeks is a good timeframe to ensure crypto has been eradicated.

[asmodyus]

So let me get what seems to be going on I had ich it’s in my tank it will come back again. So my best option to capture all my fish even if its requires a tear down put them in a smaller QT tank for a minimum of 3 months and I should be ICH free as it will die in the main tank . But some people still do this but ich comes back because it might have hitched a ride on a Frag or Inverts?

OR ICH ALWAYS IN THE TANK BOOYAA no honestly I am kidding there.

But really so best bet is to separate the livestock and treat them or someday it will come back and do more damage. I guess my best option is when I upgrade which I will be doing soon as soon as I can find a nice used 120 in my price range transfer the rock and coral to the new one and Keep the fish and the old sand bed in the old tank and Hypersailnty it or Copper and keep both running for a couple of months.

As for catching a ride on Frags and inverts what do we do about that?

[snorvich]

We suggest quarantine of frags and inverts for two weeks although many have begun to suggest quarantine for the full 72 days. Anything wet that has been in a system with fish, can bring in a parasite. But once you have an ich free tank and properly quarantine anything wet, you should be home free.

[Chicago]

yep.. that is what I was thinking on my tank. I have a large tank. and introducing frags. I have QT for fish. my guess is that it came in on a snail or hermit ect. Definitely not a fish as I QT all the fish.. or the theory I suggested above. is 72 days really long enough. I can say this when I got the frags and snails they were put through a good rinse cycle.. not directly added to the tank.

[snorvich]

yep.. that is what I was thinking on my tank. I have a large tank. and introducing frags. I have QT for fish. my guess is that it came in on a snail or hermit ect. Definitely not a fish as I QT all the fish.. or the theory I suggested above. is 72 days really long enough. I can say this when I got the frags and snails they were put through a good rinse cycle.. not directly added to the tank.

72 days is the longest known from the marine biology literature. The "standard" is considered to be twice the life cycle but that is definitely not "good" for fish, but should be good for frags, etc. since the parasite cannot live on anything except fish.

[gone fishin]

Just my 2 cents. I keep a 10g QT for coral and inverts and a 30g for fish. I follow a strict QT regimen and can say I have not had any issues with ich or any other parasite or illness in my DT.

Is it a pain sometimes yes, but I remind myself it is not as much of a pain as trying to dismantle a 180g DT to catch a fish.

[snorvich]

Just my 2 cents. I keep a 10g QT for coral and inverts and a 30g for fish. I follow a strict QT regimen and can say I have not had any issues with ich or any other parasite or illness in my DT.

Is it a pain sometimes yes, but I remind myself it is not as much of a pain as trying to dismantle a 180g DT to catch a fish.

I totally agree.

[DjScRiBbLe]

Man after hearing " ich is always present no matter what" I thought to my self, your spending too much time at Petco :rolleyes: . glad you did further reading to realize its only present if you don't eradicate it..

[sleepydoc]

Well, ich is always present at Petco!

[Deinonych]

Well, ich is always present at Petco!

+1! :lolspin:

[DjScRiBbLe]

Well, ich is always present at Petco!

Sad but true.

[snorvich]

well, ich is always present at petco!

rotflmao

[gone fishin]

:lmao: