How many/type of tangs can I add safely?

[prickles]

Hello all, I'm in the process of building a new tank, pouring the heavily reinforced concrete tomorrow! I wanted to know what/how many tangs you think I can add...The catch is I REALLY don't want to lose my existing tangs.

I currently have
1 pbt
1 achilles
1 desardjini
1 chevron

I would like to add:
naso
chocolate
convict
blue
hippo
yellow

potentially several of some of them like the yellows or convicts.

in my limited knowledge, the ones I have currently are the more aggressive right and most likely to win if it comes to it?

the tank will be roughly 11x4x4 (1350g) with about 800g extra water plumbed in. No fish are (obviously) in the new tank yet, so stocking order can have some flexibility.

thanks!

[o2manyfish]

I don't think you will have any issues with the list you have. And you can consider having multiples of some of them.

I have 9 yellows, 1 purple, 2 blue, and an Achilles and everyone gets along, with significantly smaller tank size that you are building.

Dave B

[Dmorty217]

If the tank is 1350g you can add all the tangs you listed plus some

[BrianD]

Perhaps.

My tank was 8'x3'x3', and the only tangs housed in it were a hepatus and a desjardini. They cohabitated for many years before they decided they didn't like each other and it was continually WWIII.

While you have almost triple the water capacity, I don't know that it translates to an exponentially larger number of tangs you can safely house. You might want to check in the large tank forum and see what people have successfully done on a long-term basis.

It sounds like an awesome project.

[drej424]

IME, you can't always predict aggression. I followed some tips from Humaguy's thread last time I added new fish and it made a big difference. I added a multicolor dwarf angel, an African flame back, and a bicolor to my 150. I was worried about aggression between the angels, but my Tomini tang wound up being the problem. The tips I followed were to turn the lights on only when I was in front of the tank and to feed frequently and heavily. It helped a lot.

[BrianD]

I might also say that you have a great selection of tangs right now. I am looking forward to updates as you progress.

[silentstorm]

Wow.. That would be a sweet build to follow.. Do you have a build thread??

Am no tang expert...but that big a system has enough room for the tangs listed.. I would add them smaller either at the same time / or in the order of least aggressive..

[Rea17]

That's going to be an amazing setup, love the dimensions! With the proper aquascape, flow, and feeding schedule, you can stock the tangs you listed and more if you wanted. Maybe do a group of convicts and/or yellows? Just make sure they all get quarantined!

[BrianD]

Remember that tank size is only one parameter. 11' isn't that big for a fish as large as a tang. Again, I don't know what the results would be, but I certainly wouldn't want to state as fact that something will be successful.

[prickles]

Wow.. That would be a sweet build to follow.. Do you have a build thread??

Am no tang expert...but that big a system has enough room for the tangs listed.. I would add them smaller either at the same time / or in the order of least aggressive..

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2391588

haven't gotten very far yet!

[CHSUB]

fill it up, and enjoy!!!!tangs are social animals and do better in groups. put 2 yellow tangs in they will fight, put 6 or more and its all good!!!

[DavidinGA]

You could triple your list and still be OK lol

[prickles]

what would be your opinions on aggressive level/order of stocking?

[DavidinGA]

In 1350gal tank your not gonna have any aggression issues with those fish. You could probably add a clown tang and still not have aggression issues lol

[BrianD]

In 1350gal tank your not gonna have any aggression issues with those fish. You could probably add a clown tang and still not have aggression issues lol

Based on what?

[Rea17]

what would be your opinions on aggressive level/order of stocking?

This depends, are you going to add the new tangs as adults or juvies? How large are the ones you have now? Are you planning to add them in groups or one by one? Ime tangs of similar sizes fare best with each other, but if adding a single fish an acclimation box is always a good idea.

I've done very well adding tangs in groups of 4-5 to an established hierarchy. There is less squabbling and individual aggression this way. Of course, you generally want to add smaller/less aggressive specimens first.

[BrianD]

what would be your opinions on aggressive level/order of stocking?

Good input from Rea17.

[DavidinGA]

Based on what?


Based on the fact that he wants ten tangs in a 1350gal tank.... That's easily doable. I have 7 tangs in a 210gal lol.

Why in the world would you possibly think he couldn't keep 10 tangs in a 1350gal tank????

[DavidinGA]

I should add I understand you "can" have aggression issues if you say run a school of yellows and try to add a purple later or something to that effect; but done right you can pretty well add any all tangs to that setup.

[ca1ore]

Achilles and PB are likely the most aggressive of the tangs you listed initially - in fact I'm a little surprised you can keep them together in a tank, I never could.

[BrianD]

Based on the fact that he wants ten tangs in a 1350gal tank.... That's easily doable. I have 7 tangs in a 210gal lol.

Why in the world would you possibly think he couldn't keep 10 tangs in a 1350gal tank????

The fact that you have 7 tangs in a 210 doesn't make it a good thing, or something that will work long term. According to some of your other posts, your tank is less than a year old.

If you read my posts, you will see I never said he couldn't. I suggested that he consider input from others who have kept similar stocking levels in a similar tank.

[Rea17]

Achilles and PB are likely the most aggressive of the tangs you listed initially - in fact I'm a little surprised you can keep them together in a tank, I never could.

Agree with this, when among the last fish added I don't see an issue though. I have a powder blue, powder blue hybrid, and achilles together in my 520 with minimal aggression, all were added at the same time. The powder blues do their "dance" in the evenings, but they break off and go about their business without any injuries, achilles ignores both of them. I also feed 5-7 times a day, which helps a lot. A lot of problems will arise if the fish are under the impression that they need to compete for food.

I would watch the desjardini, they *can* get quite aggressive, but don't always. Add all of your Zebrasoma tangs at the same time, probably before the achilles and PB.

[aquaph8]

IMO, it's not always what you add it's how you add them. Go check out Dan's tank and you'll see what I mean.

[ca1ore]

A lot of problems will arise if the fish are under the impression that they need to compete for food.

This is an excellent point, and one that often goes unappreciated in the rush to keep nutrient down: don't starve your fish. I regularly feed my tank 5 times per day (with food remaining uneaten for 10 seconds, maybe) and while I certainly have some tussles, and pretty common to see chunks of fins missing, there is rarely any real damage.

[prickles]

This depends, are you going to add the new tangs as adults or juvies? How large are the ones you have now? Are you planning to add them in groups or one by one? Ime tangs of similar sizes fare best with each other, but if adding a single fish an acclimation box is always a good idea.

I've done very well adding tangs in groups of 4-5 to an established hierarchy. There is less squabbling and individual aggression this way. Of course, you generally want to add smaller/less aggressive specimens first.

I hate to admit it but I was thinking add the new ones as juvies so in case of aggression, my established tangs would win? I could either add them as groups or one by one. I will QT them (with meds) for 6 weeks before they go in, so whatever I can do in 1-3 tanks at once is my limit.

[prickles]

Achilles and PB are likely the most aggressive of the tangs you listed initially - in fact I'm a little surprised you can keep them together in a tank, I never could.

I would say I can't actually.

Within 5 min of adding the achilles to the tank with PBT, the achilles was on brink of death. I tried to trap either one for a few days then tried the mirror trick (and every other one I could think of.) The mirror trick worked. I put mirrors on the glass pretty much covering the bottom 1' of the tank on three sides. The PBT and everyone else was much more interested in killing its reflection than anything else..............After about 3 months, I went down to only having the ends of the tank covered with mirrors. Three months later I pulled those off and now we have an uneasy truce. There is a scratch or broken top/bottom fin on either one about every 3 weeks or so, but it's been 4-5 years now. I worry that in the current 300g they won't allow each other to live when they get bigger/meaner.

Thankfully, the current 300g is no longer the constraint. Hopefully the bigger space will calm them?

[prickles]

IMO, it's not always what you add it's how you add them. Go check out Dan's tank and you'll see what I mean.

I did that today.....it's creepy, there appears to be no aggression at all. He has ALOT of tangs.

[prickles]

This is an excellent point, and one that often goes unappreciated in the rush to keep nutrient down: don't starve your fish. I regularly feed my tank 5 times per day (with food remaining uneaten for 10 seconds, maybe) and while I certainly have some tussles, and pretty common to see chunks of fins missing, there is rarely any real damage.

the manager at my LFS was actually making fun of me on Friday since he thinks my fish are fat. I only feed once/day. Here's the part that seems weird to me btw. I feed, omega brine/mysis/rods in the evenings and NEVER NORI or other herbivore stuff, but my supposed herbivores are really round and deep in color. In fact, several people who have seen my tank have said without prompting that my pbt is the healthiest looking they have ever seen. As far as I can tell, my PBT and achilles only eat meat...

[Rea17]

I hate to admit it but I was thinking add the new ones as juvies so in case of aggression, my established tangs would win? I could either add them as groups or one by one. I will QT them (with meds) for 6 weeks before they go in, so whatever I can do in 1-3 tanks at once is my limit.

In this case, I would add all of the new tangs FIRST, and let them establish themselves for a couple of weeks before adding your current tangs. Most of my large tangs pay no attention to tangs that are significantly smaller, but if the size difference is just enough to give one fish the upper hand it can be a problem. For example, I added a 2" orange shoulder tang on top of several established 7-10" acanthurus tangs and nobody looked at him twice. Still, it would be optimal to have the little guys in the tank first.

I would say I can't actually.

Within 5 min of adding the achilles to the tank with PBT, the achilles was on brink of death. I tried to trap either one for a few days then tried the mirror trick (and every other one I could think of.) The mirror trick worked. I put mirrors on the glass pretty much covering the bottom 1' of the tank on three sides. The PBT and everyone else was much more interested in killing its reflection than anything else..............After about 3 months, I went down to only having the ends of the tank covered with mirrors. Three months later I pulled those off and now we have an uneasy truce. There is a scratch or broken top/bottom fin on either one about every 3 weeks or so, but it's been 4-5 years now. I worry that in the current 300g they won't allow each other to live when they get bigger/meaner.

Thankfully, the current 300g is no longer the constraint. Hopefully the bigger space will calm them?

The bigger tank should make a big difference, but don't forget each fish has a personality. I quarantined my powder blue and achilles together for a while in my old 210g, and there wasn't a problem. If they are already at odds, definitely add them at the same time. In the case of adding them to a smaller tank like your 300, an acclimation box would have been a good route.

I did that today.....it's creepy, there appears to be no aggression at all. He has ALOT of tangs.

IME, the more tangs you have the less it bothers them. In large tanks with proper nutrient export, people can accomplish some really cool stocking. Check out David Saxby's tank if you haven't already seen it somewhere else.

As far as I can tell, my PBT and achilles only eat meat...

This is interesting... No herbivore diet anywhere? Is your Rod's the "herbivore" blend? I don't normally use Rod's, but the package of "original" I have now contains an awful lot of krill. I know this is an extremely fatty food and if used too much, can cause fatty liver disease.

[prickles]

This is interesting... No herbivore diet anywhere? Is your Rod's the "herbivore" blend? I don't normally use Rod's, but the package of "original" I have now contains an awful lot of krill. I know this is an extremely fatty food and if used too much, can cause fatty liver disease.

I do use the herbivore blend as part of my food usually, but what they eat from it appears to be all meat, like the larger shrimp chunks and mysis.

Very helpful responses btw!