I can not keep SPS anymore :(

[bigbuckdown]

I had a nice setup a few months ago. Plenty of sticks. People would come over and love my reef tank. Then I upgraded and since then every time a stick goes in it comes out with no skin in a few weeks time. I have been driving myself crazy doing daily water tests especially alk using salifert and hanna meter and my tests come back perfect. When I setup the new tank 5 months ago the corals started taking off.Encrusting and growing fast then the road block hit and started losing corals every night. Im growing coraline like a mad man and I have no algae AT ALL in the tank. It takes at least 7 days before I have to clean the glass
ALK 8.3 to 8.7
cal 420 to 430
mag 1320 to 1350
po4 0.0 to 0,02
no3 .15 to .10
salinity 1.025
temp 76 to 78
ph 7.9 to 8.2
I run carbon and rowaphos
using red sea salt
I cant for the life of me figure out whats going on. I have lost all my old colonies of acropora,montipora,birdsnest,stylos nothing stays alive for more then 2 to 3 weeks. I have put polypads in with no color change,switched
salts,changed lighting schedules,took my calcium reactor offline i have tried everything and still cant keep any SPS alive.Now I had success ith SPS before the upgrade but now I cant keep anything alive :( Can anyone please give me advise on what to check for now? I am stumped and getting tired of it

[bigbuckdown]

This is just something I was thinking it could be since I checked almost everything already. Silicone from sump leaching something into water column. I used GE silicone to do 1 of the sumps. I let it cure for a week but who knows. I bought some rocks from another site members tank when I set it up maybe something is leaching from his rocks that Im not testing for or I went BB with cutting board maybe something is leaching from the cutting board? Like I said these are the last 3 things on my mind that it could possibly be

[chopper320]

Possibly not enough nutrients? If your glass stays clean for 7 days and you are running rowaphos and carbon, you may think about taking the rowaphos offline for a while and see how things go.

[bigbuckdown]

Tried that for awhile with the same results. Had the GFO off for a month because I thought that was what was killing my corals. PO4 went up and corals were still dying. I have about 25 fish which include 6 tangs and i feed everyday sometimes 2 times with pellets and algae sheets. I do 25 gallons a week using ro/di on a 160 gallon of total water volume system

[tfp]

bigbuck, it could possibly be the cutting board. the owner of a LFS replaced his with the high quality stuff and his tank began to recover quickly. he said the original one was a cheap one.

[Mael]

Hm, so the only things different from when you had success with them is the new rock/cutting bnoard and the silicone, nothing else changed equipment wise(except for the tank obviously)?

If it was the rock, like maybe copper in it, it should affect all coral not just SPS. If it is the board, could be what they used to seal it with although it shouldnt be anything bad since it is meant to be used with raw foods. Also for your Alk and PH you are giving ranges, how often do those values change and by how much? .3 to .4 can be a decent difference in PH and Alk if it is changing that much in a short time.

[Tweaked]

stray voltage?

[jroovers]

Sorry to hear this. Five months is a pretty short period of time for a new tank. My first suggestion would be to not change anything (i.e. don't switch salts or change calcium/alk dosing procedures if your parameters are stable). To echo chopper, my first guess would be too little nutrients, but if you have nitrates at 0.10 to 0.15, and phosphates up to 0.02, that isn't the case (in fact I would suggest maybe trying to bring your nitrate down to 0.05). I would suggest rowaphos as a potential culprit, did you make any drastic changes in this regard? Did you use any products that really cleared up the water and let the light torch the corals? Are you sure your source water is 0 TDS? Maybe if you post some pictures as well it could help point the potential source of the problem. If it is a plastic cutting board, wouldn't that be food safe? Maybe it could be the silicone... I thought the standard was to stay away from anything with additives in it (i.e. the mold resistant kind), I'd double check that it was reef safe.

[Bill Nye]

Many cutting boards are infused with bisphenols such as Triclosan. Perhaps it is only in enough concentration to effect sensitive SPS corals.

[bigbuckdown]

The silicone had no mildew inhibitors. I asked on another board which silicone to use and people told me that this was the one. I bought this cutting board from cuttingboard.com and told them it was for a fishtank. They said many people have called for this. My SPS are not the only corals effected its also some LPS but zoas are doing fine. I have a ground probe in the sump. As for my ranges its varies within the ranges I gave. Not a big change so didnt think it is that. My old setup would jump alot more with no effects on my tank. Tds reads zero on my meter. I was losing corals using BRS GFO and still losing since switching to rowaphos. I am doing less then recommended with rowa and carbon

[roberto_lopes]

I have used the cutting board for a long time with no issues at all. BUT

Is your cutting board HDP (High density Polycarbonate) or what ? There ARE some materials that look like HDP but it's not.

Make sure of it. Or simply remove it and see what happens.

[bigbuckdown]

What do you guys think of the Ecigarette smoke? Do you think that could be doing something to the water

[Wills612]

What do you guys think of the Ecigarette smoke? Do you think that could be doing something to the water

I vape around my tank, and am currently having some STN, but I've been vaping around the tank for over a year with no problems prior. :smokin:

[Allmost]

smoke doesnt seem to have effect, my sump and skimmer and frag tank are in my smoking room.

[bigbuckdown]

Not talking about regular smoke Im talking about electric cigarettes. This started happening just about the time I started vaping. Could be just a coincedence though. Im trying to think of everything. This is so frustrating

[jgalen0025]

The nicotine in the eliquid is very concentrated and it can absorb through your skin. If you put your hands in the water this could leach out. Even if you wash your hands it can still be there. Could be a possibility

[Allmost]

also how do the SPS die ? STN ? RTN ? or loosing tissue form tips ?

have you dipped any dying ones to make sure no pest ?

lastly, are you calibrating the refractometer.

[tmantaylor18]

Went through the same thing recently. Im still trying to figure it out. Any SPS I put in dies after my tank crashed. The only things that died were SPS. Zoas, fish, inverts all completely fine.

[bigbuckdown]

They die in all different way. Skin melting over night,STN from the bottom up and some start from some of the tips. No pests,I dont know of any pests that eat birdsnests or chalices. I had my friend check my salinity with his refractometer. I use calibrating fluid every time I do a water change. I have checked all the usual suspects. Alk swings,temp,pests,salinity,polypads ph I ve done all the usual tests. I cant figure it out. I was even thinking maybe the flex hose I used but many peole have used that. I checked for rust on all my equipment,stray current there is something going on I cant test for and I dont know what :(

[reefwiser]

Did you grade the tank to a larger size? How is your water flow.
http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/the-importance-of-water-flow-and-movement-2/

[bigbuckdown]

Here some pics. Acro that are alive are test acros some friends gave me. They turn brown,polyps suck in and start dying

[bigbuckdown]

More

[bigbuckdown]

Water flow I have 2 mp40s and 2 seaswirls using a reeflo barracuda

[jroovers]

I have a ground probe in the sump.

Just FYI, this doesn't relate to your issues likely and I'm no expert but I'm told a ground probe in the sump will actually promote the travel of stray current through your system (i.e. it creates a path for the current to travel through the system and to the ground) if you are not using a GFCI. If you are using a GFCI and you have stray current greater than the potential in your GFCI, it will trip.

[bigbuckdown]

Just checked and my ground probe was out. I remember about 6 weeks ago I took it out because I thought about it bringing current into the tank and thats why my corals were dying. So can rule out that. Dying with it in dying with it out

[bigbuckdown]

Also corals deaths coincide with my new washing machine. I got a front loader but there is always a smell of soap in the washing machine even after I rinse the machine before I wash my socks.

[Stackemdeep]

I know you said you checked the Silicone, but there are two types of GE 1. The one you used said "Windows and Doors" right? Not insulting you, but I caught this mistake on my sump and went back and switched tubes. The other GE1 is not aquarium safe. I use a front loader and quit using socks because the detergent trap never fully flushes clean. Hand wash them when I use them now. Also, I think that "HE" detergent for front loaders has an anti foaming agent (?)

[bigbuckdown]

This is the silcone I used. Silicone 1 windows and doors

[bigbuckdown]

A friend told me if it was detergent or softner coming off the sock the skimmer would go nuts. Now I usually am cleaning the skimmer while changing the socks and skimmer is off for 10 minutes and never noticed the skimmer going nuts and dont know if the minute amount would cause this

[gropoc]

I have the same problem. :(
I would pay 5000 bucks just to go back in time to have my 75g back….I didnt try at all and everything looked amazing and grew fast…
I try very hard now, spending a ton of time and money. All my sps are brown now. None are dying, but they stopped growing completely for last 5 months. Cant figure it out.
I also use red sea coral pro, and rowaphos…but I did before...

[toronto_discus]

I am having exactly the same issues and have no clue why I cannot keep sps. Other than testing the usual cal, mg, alk and etc, what other elements can affect the health of sps. Ie: cooper, metal.....

[bigbuckdown]

I have kept a dominant SPS tank for awhile. I know what to check when things start to go bad but I have checked,checked and re checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing. The last 3 things I can do is stop vaping near the tank,do my filter sock cleaning a different way and if that all fails to re do my sump and fuge. Other then that I have tried absolutly everything :(

[Peter Eichler]

There's nothing obvious or standing out as an issue... I'd suggest doing a couple large water changes (maybe 100 gallons) with confirmed 0 tds water a new batch of salt from what you have been using. Mix the water for a couple days and heat one of them well so it doesn't drop the tank temp more than 4 or 5 degrees. Good luck!

[bigbuckdown]

Ive done a 65 gallon water change with new ro/di filters and di resin using new box of red sea salt that were heated to 78 degrees. I had to borrow 2 brutes from a friend to make that much water

[tfp]

what kind of lighting? how old are your bulbs? just tryin' to help here...

[Stackemdeep]

If I were having this problem, I would pull the socks completely first and go without keeping everything else the same to eliminate this one variable. I would add a new frag when I pulled the socks and did a water change as a "canary". Then I would go on to the next variable, perhaps the sump.

[fishpureluck]

Do you have any leathers in the tank? I had the same issues with my mixed reef. I pulled all of the leathers, and problem solved. Not sure if this is your issue, but when I pulled mine out and did a water change and ran carbon, everything was happy pretty quickly.

[bigbuckdown]

No leathers. I will clean my socks another way and see what happens. I dont want to go sockless

[vette.tech]

It's funny you mention the new washing machine because we just got one too and now my filter socks seem....strange I guess. Just run sock less for a little bit, sure won't make things worse

[marthin]

I feel your pain. I was in the same boat after a housemove, upgrade.. kept going killing corals (I was sure it will pass) and eventually sold the tank.. spend some time being proper miserable and then got a small tank.. starting to get the mojo back and loving it.
hope you get this sorted

[tmb22]

Did you start using a different brand and/or more GAC when you switched tanks? This can sometimes induce terrible RTN and STN. I'm sure it's terribly frustrating. I would go as basic as you can (feeding more, removing GAC and GFO, keeping up on water changes, and testing daily/weekly) and then add in each part of your system back individually, giving each item a month or two to get settled so that you can see exactly what is causing the issue. This includes using your e-cigg near your tank. If things start looking better, introduce that variable again to see if it's causing problems.

[roberto_lopes]

What socks are this.

Here in Brazil a friend of mine had the same issue and discovered that the sock were poisoned.

It kills all the corals he had but fishes was fine.

Try to remove the socks for one or two weeks to see if things improve.

Otherwise, DID you check your cutting board to see if it is High density Polycarbonate ?

[bigbuckdown]

Yeah I dont think my sock is poisoned. I had 20 new socks I ordered that were used and my tank was fine. Then after I washed them I started noticing problems just about that time but who knows.

[Southreef]

I've stopped using socks all together for the past three weeks due to concerns of leftover detergent. It's too soon to report a full recovery but all of the STN'ed area has started to re-encrust. My tank is a vinegar dosed 90 gallon and the major changes I made were in the following order:

1) bringing my nitrates up to a detectible level with potassium nitrate
2) dosing some amino acids

3) pull the socks

4) rodi chloramine unit from brs
5) increase mysis/brine/krill feeding to fish

6) feed reef roids every 3rd night with pumps off for one hour

7) after researching the affects of dosing iron... I decided to dose iron to eliminate the possibility that it was a limiting factor. (Natureef brand)

My nutrient levels were almost undetectable and now I'm rocking nitrates at 2.5 and Po4 at .05-.08 (hannah ulr)
CA 430
Dkh 8.3-8.6
Mg 1295
Sg 1.026
Weekly 10 gallon (10%) water changes with Red Sea blue bucket salt.

[bigbuckdown]

I really dont like to dose what I cant test for :(

[Southreef]

Ahhhh I forgot the true #1 thing I did was remove my DSB and chaeto from the fuge. They were super effective in keeping the no3 down and I suspected that combined with carbon dosing, I was beginning to leach po4 from the bed. Now I just have live rock in the sump with no lighting. The only thing is that without the socks I will have to rinse the live rock off at least every 2 months to battle detritus.

[animalkingdom]

my tank has not done good ever since moving last year. I didnt change anything that I know of either. I think tank moves can set tanks back for unknown reasons. I would double check your RO/DI water though. The house I moved to has 60 year old galvanized plumbing and now I burn through DI resin fairly quickly. In a few weeks I'm redoing the plumbing because of this. Once I finish this 60 year old electrical disaster ;)

[bigbuckdown]

Just googled GE silicone 1 windows and doors in a reef tank and there is so many yes and nos to use it. I would say 75 to 25 percent that its reef safe so Im not going to be tearing apart the sump and fuge just yet. I removed the socks and will go sockless for a month to see if corals do any better. If not ill be tearing apart the sump and fuge and if that dont do it remove the cutting board. After that if things dont improve maybe just go FOWLR. Those are my last 3 options. Other then that I tried EVERYTHING

[toronto_discus]

Ahhhh I forgot the true #1 thing I did was remove my DSB and chaeto from the fuge. They were super effective in keeping the no3 down and I suspected that combined with carbon dosing, I was beginning to leach po4 from the bed. Now I just have live rock in the sump with no lighting. The only thing is that without the socks I will have to rinse the live rock off at least every 2 months to battle detritus.

How does removing the DSB and chaeto make your sps better?

[bigbuckdown]

Can someone explain this for me. I had 2 monti frags that looked just like the 2 mother colonies after my issues. No color in the skin with some polyps. I had my lights off in the frag tank because i had a little cyano growing. 3 days later I turn the lights on and the color is returning to the skin and polyps fully extended. Mother colonies still look horrible but with the lights out the frags look wonderful????

[alessandro]

me too I'm fighting regularly with this kind of problems.
the problem occurs with the tips that begin first brown and then lose the coral tissue with obvious signs of discomfort until sometimes die.
now when the first symptoms begin I perform 5-6 consecutive changes of 10% every day and the situation improves.
Look like signs of poisoning but some corals seems less affected.
My alk is steady in the 7-8 range.
In common with what I read I also have:

1- Filter socks
2 - Dosing vinegar
3 - Use Red sea blue bucket.

Now I stopped the vinegar dosing and adding more food hoping to fix the problem.

[alessandro]

Can someone explain this for me. I had 2 monti frags that looked just like the 2 mother colonies after my issues. No color in the skin with some polyps. I had my lights off in the frag tank because i had a little cyano growing. 3 days later I turn the lights on and the color is returning to the skin and polyps fully extended. Mother colonies still look horrible but with the lights out the frags look wonderful????

with the light off PO4 and NO3 arise because bacteria need light.
This could mean that tank suffer for nutrient too low.

[Syntax1325]

To the OP: Do you use any kind of filter sock on the exit hose of your gfo reactor? I use a 100 micron DIY small filter sock and I'm amazed at the gfo particles that would of ended up in my tank without the sock. It's quite shocking really. Just a thought. I hope things improve for you.

[GroktheCube]

The silicone had no mildew inhibitors. I asked on another board which silicone to use and people told me that this was the one. I bought this cutting board from cuttingboard.com and told them it was for a fishtank. They said many people have called for this. My SPS are not the only corals effected its also some LPS but zoas are doing fine. I have a ground probe in the sump. As for my ranges its varies within the ranges I gave. Not a big change so didnt think it is that. My old setup would jump alot more with no effects on my tank. Tds reads zero on my meter. I was losing corals using BRS GFO and still losing since switching to rowaphos. I am doing less then recommended with rowa and carbon

Was it neutral cure (virtually no smell while curing) or acetoxy cure (vinegar smell while curing)? Thick beads of acetoxy silicone can take a few weeks to cure.

What do you guys think of the Ecigarette smoke? Do you think that could be doing something to the water

My tank is in the same room as my computer, and I vape in there all the time, sometimes even with windows and doors closed. Zero problems. However, I imagine that the e-liquid could cause problems if any of it got into the water.

Any chance you're blasting them with too much light? How much are you feeding? If I slack off on my normal feeding routine for a couple weeks, my SPS often don't look quite as good.

How deep is your sandbed, and how often do you clean it? I'm switching over to BB, and I'm shocked at how filthy my 1 year old sandbed is, despite fairly frequent cleaning. Just a shot in the dark.

[bigbuckdown]

Im BB. Just amazes me that my frags look great after shutting my lights down for 3 days. My frag tank is attached to my DT so why would they look great after lights out? I saw the one poster said that bacteria rises with lights out but my main tanks lights stayed on

[bigbuckdown]

I just called the company and the told me their cutting board is made from High density polyethylene

[roberto_lopes]

I just called the company and the told me their cutting board is made from High density polyethylene


Great So it's definitely not the cutting board. It is exactly the same I use for years with no issues.

SPS suffering from too low nutrient I don't think so. Mine is Zero everything and we all no that absolute zero does not exist.

I don't believe that the Silicon on the sump is the problem UNLESS it has anti-fungi/Bacterial elements. Did you check this on the bottle ?

Mine was glued only 3 days before been filled.

My best bet is on the socks.

Keep us updated and best of lucky for you.


PS. Your frags look so great because without lights they have to extend polyps to feed, otherwise they starve because the Zoaxanthele don't feed the coral anymore. I think.

[MarinaP]

Have you tried discontinuing carbon?

[Syntax1325]

Didn't mean to post, sorry.

[bigbuckdown]

Yes I ruled out the cutting board :) Didnt rule out the silicone even though there is nothing on the tube that says mildew inhibitors. So even though most sites say the ge1 windows and doors is fine i will judge that if I have to redo the fuge and sump

[UTCReefer]

Double and Triple check your refractometer. I had very similar issues and it turned out that my SG was between 1.028-1.031.
Check your tank with a different refractometer and then check someone elses with yours.

[bigbuckdown]

UTC did that already :) Did all the usual steps already to figure this out and came up short every time :(

[UTCReefer]

It has to be water related. Did you change salt?

[bigbuckdown]

I changed salts when all the death started happening didnt work :(

[JohnKoz1234]

it says on it MOLD FREE

[bigbuckdown]

That means there is a chemical in the silicone that keeps mold from growing on the silicone. That one is no good

[Stackemdeep]

I would be interested in what specific He detergent you use on your front loader since I have one as well. The reason I ask is I want to research more about these cleaners. Some products contain other chemicals in addition to anti foaming agents, such as optical brighteners, corrosion inhibitors for the machine and antiredistribution agents to prevent dirt from re-attaching to the garments.

[bigbuckdown]

We use whatever HE detergent is on sale :) usually tide or All

[Syntax1325]

it says on it MOLD FREE

That's the bad stuff, it's poison!

[Art13]

Yeah, i think its the silicon, it says 5 year mold free, which makes me think theres something in it to inhibit mold.

[Art13]

What might help the OP and also a question i would have is can a poly filter or something be used to pull the agent from the water or at this point what would be the next step in cleaning the water besides heavy water changes?

[UTCReefer]

If that is what was used then I would lean towards that being the culprit. Still I'd want to do more research to verify that a mold inhibitor can cause this type of damage.

[bigbuckdown]

That was some other guy posting what he used. I used GE 1. No mold inhibitors in it. Im the OP. I already mentioned I used a polyfilter as well. No color change

[Art13]

sorry, didn't read the name, early in the morning for me.

[bigbuckdown]

Its a little early but I did a 35 gallon water change yesterday and put in fresh BRS rox and today for the first time I am seeing polyps on remaining acros. I wont be sure for at least a month but this is a good sign

[JohnKoz1234]

How is your tank doing?

[bigbuckdown]

Seems to be doing better. Only time will tell

[bigbuckdown]

Nope not better. Came home to find my stag STNing today :(

[fishpureluck]

Any metal fittings get accidentally put into the system? My friends new tank was doing the same thing, come to find out, he used a brass fitting on his return. Basically slowly copper dosed his tank. I guess I should have checked it when he upgraded since I set up his first reef, but oh well. He's fixing it now.

[bigbuckdown]

No. Everything is PVC plumbed

[bigbuckdown]

So my issue is I get a new frag just to test from fellow reefers and the acro will look great for 2 weeks and then they start to die. I took the acros out that were dying and dipped in a potent mixture of Revive since I knew they werent going to be saved and no pests come off. My new pocillipora and neon green birdsnests are doing fine now and my remaining motis skin is starting to get their skin color back. They have been in the tank for just about a month so Im comfortable saying they are finally surviving but my acros are a different story.

[dowtish]

Have you been using the same box/bucket of salt through all of this? Might want to try a new batch.

[bigbuckdown]

No i have been through at least 5 different buckets maybe more

[71Percent]

Sounds like silicon to me. I made the mistake of using a silicon with an additive in my sump. I caught my mistake before adding water, and ended up stripping out the silicon. What a mess. I called GE as my first thought was to cover the toxic silicon with a layer of pure silicon, but they said it would eventually leach through. If you do decide to scrape it out, beware the seal will never be as strong as a first time seal.

[Yodeling]

Did you check for stray current? I had a similar issue many years ago and it ended up being faulty wall socket (open ground). You can get a simple socket tester for like $4 at any department store.

[tfp]

bigbuck, its been a couple months...i'm scared to ask...

[BrentH]

Does any sps survive or all just rtn ?