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View Full Version : So I have a fish with ich. A brand new 20 gal Qt. And Ich Attack. Advice please.


Electus unus
04/02/2014, 09:59 PM
What's my best bet, I have my main tank with one fish showing signs of ich (white dots...) so I bought a new 20 gal qt tank with all the accessories. I also bought a bottle of Ich attack, which despite SOME negative feedback for I've read from this site, my LFS as well as Petco swear by the stuff. Anybody with good experiences using this stuff?? Please share info.

Should I quarantine the one fish alone and treat the whole main tank while also treating him in the qt? Or would I be better off just leaving him in the main tank and treating it as a whole. Or is it really so much better to move all fish to the QT, and treat them with copper, while letting the lifespan of the ich to run it's course?

HumbleFish
04/02/2014, 10:16 PM
Ich Attack (from the mfg website (http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/organic-herbal-preventatives-and-treatments-2/ich-attack-disease-treatment#compatabilities-toxicity!)): 100% Organic Herbals Based

Nothing herbal based eradicates Ich.

Electus unus
04/02/2014, 10:52 PM
I knew I was going to get comments like this, which is why I mentioned some negative feedback I've ALREADY heated from this site about the product. I've also heated really good things, and honestly, I'd like tips from people who HAVE HAD SUCCESS with the product. And that still didn't answer my question about quarantining ...

Electus unus
04/02/2014, 10:53 PM
Heard* twice autocorrected...

Deinonych
04/02/2014, 10:55 PM
You likely won't get any positive experiences with the product here, because it doesn't work. :)

As far as treatment goes, your best bet is to remove all fish to a dedicated hospital tank and treat using one of the methods suggested in the sticky at the top of this forum. Then leave your DT fallow (fishless) for 10 weeks.

Reefahholic
04/03/2014, 12:46 AM
Ich Attack (from the mfg website (http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/organic-herbal-preventatives-and-treatments-2/ich-attack-disease-treatment#compatabilities-toxicity!)): 100% Organic Herbals Based

Nothing herbal based eradicates Ich.

Humblefish is exactly right. You might put a bandaid on it, but you will not get rid of it.

If you want to rid the ICH for sure, get that fish out and put him in ur QT. Let your DT sit fallow for 72 days.

The fish in QT can be treated one of 3 proven ways:

1. Tank transfer
2. Seachem Cupramine Copper
3. Hyposalinity- However it's been reported that some strains of ICH are able to survive/ tolerate this treatment.

Most popular method is TT. I've listed them from most to least popular.

TT is highly effective and probably the easiest. I've had success with copper at a theraputic level, but it cannot drop below that for 4 weeks.

Good luck!

Reefahholic
04/03/2014, 12:59 AM
I knew I was going to get comments like this, which is why I mentioned some negative feedback I've ALREADY heated from this site about the product. I've also heated really good things, and honestly, I'd like tips from people who HAVE HAD SUCCESS with the product. And that still didn't answer my question about quarantining ...

You WILL NOT have success with that product bro.

If you do not believe me, I can refer you to two people who will tell you the same thing because we've all been there done that.

One guy you can speak with is Snorvich. He is very knowledgeable about QT and disease treatment. He only has 29,000 posts here and wrote the stickys above.

I can refer you to another guy who nearly has 100,000 posts. Does that mean they can't error? No...but it does mean they have been around a long time and know their shittt.

The guy above (humblefish) is always here on the disease forum and has helped multiple people as well. He knows a lot about what he's talking about.

As for me, I don't know much of anything, but am a bit anal about ICH and have a few qt's at home. I'm QTing 3 mag's and a gig right now at the same time. Not to mention I have 4 other QT's going with a lot of other fish and my DT is currently running fallow.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/JaredJHarms/Mobile%20Uploads/11A9A1DD-AFBF-4342-9A41-81CFDF8385D9.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JaredJHarms/media/Mobile%20Uploads/11A9A1DD-AFBF-4342-9A41-81CFDF8385D9.jpg.html)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/JaredJHarms/Mobile%20Uploads/DF4F40C8-4513-4B1E-A992-72F19749D9FF.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JaredJHarms/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DF4F40C8-4513-4B1E-A992-72F19749D9FF.jpg.html)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/JaredJHarms/Mobile%20Uploads/17583C68-FD1F-4078-9949-7ED6EA7E2EEE.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JaredJHarms/media/Mobile%20Uploads/17583C68-FD1F-4078-9949-7ED6EA7E2EEE.jpg.html)

Again, good luck! I wouldn't blow smoke up ur Azzz bro. I'm telling you the truth to help you.

Reefahholic
04/03/2014, 01:13 AM
What's my best bet, I have my main tank with one fish showing signs of ich (white dots...) so I bought a new 20 gal qt tank with all the accessories. I also bought a bottle of Ich attack, which despite SOME negative feedback for I've read from this site, my LFS as well as Petco swear by the stuff. Anybody with good experiences using this stuff?? Please share info.

Should I quarantine the one fish alone and treat the whole main tank while also treating him in the qt? Or would I be better off just leaving him in the main tank and treating it as a whole. Or is it really so much better to move all fish to the QT, and treat them with copper, while letting the lifespan of the ich to run it's course?

Don't listen to anything petco employees tell you unless you know the person and that he or she is giving accurate information. For the record, I've used ICH attack, and like I said above- it's a quick fix, not a permanent solution.

Have you seen the fish at most Petco stores?

Here's a Petco fish from last week. Their tanks are infested with ICH, Velvet, Flukes, and a lot more.


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/JaredJHarms/Mobile%20Uploads/8DD77E74-5341-4D51-883A-025179B18BE9.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JaredJHarms/media/Mobile%20Uploads/8DD77E74-5341-4D51-883A-025179B18BE9.jpg.html)

Another fish bought at Petco.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f236/JaredJHarms/Mobile%20Uploads/73F5D670-3AD6-4A9C-ADE7-D50343123326.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/JaredJHarms/media/Mobile%20Uploads/73F5D670-3AD6-4A9C-ADE7-D50343123326.jpg.html)

snorvich
04/03/2014, 04:22 AM
What's my best bet, I have my main tank with one fish showing signs of ich (white dots...) so I bought a new 20 gal qt tank with all the accessories. I also bought a bottle of Ich attack, which despite SOME negative feedback for I've read from this site, my LFS as well as Petco swear by the stuff. Anybody with good experiences using this stuff?? Please share info.

Should I quarantine the one fish alone and treat the whole main tank while also treating him in the qt? Or would I be better off just leaving him in the main tank and treating it as a whole. Or is it really so much better to move all fish to the QT, and treat them with copper, while letting the lifespan of the ich to run it's course?

I suggest you start reading here. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659) It seems like you are looking for confirmation of your solution (which, as mentioned above, is not going to work) rather than help with your problem.

snorvich
04/03/2014, 04:39 AM
Oh, and by the way, you should have mentioned that the one fish is a box fish. If your LFS sold you this fish as a new to the hobby person as your first fish, they are giving you poor advice.

Electus unus
04/03/2014, 08:10 AM
Did nobody read the last line of my thread? I'm not saying any of you are wrong. I know it's just a quick/temp fix using ich attack. Which is why I mentioned copper..

Electus unus
04/03/2014, 08:12 AM
Thanks for all input though.
Here's another question. Can I just quarantine my inverts and live rock, and treat my main tank with copper? Or will copper also effect my livesand?

Electus unus
04/03/2014, 08:15 AM
Oh, and by the way, you should have mentioned that the one fish is a box fish. If your LFS sold you this fish as a new to the hobby person as your first fish, they are giving you poor advice.

I do my research on the fish I buy. I know all abot the toxins they can secrete under stress. For this, I'd kinda like to qt him separately.

Reefahholic
04/03/2014, 09:06 PM
Thanks for all input though.
Here's another question. Can I just quarantine my inverts and live rock, and treat my main tank with copper? Or will copper also effect my livesand?

I wouldn't dose any copper in your DT. You may have problems down the road with corals. People say it can be removed, but others will not touch a tank that's medicated with copper. I wouldn't do it with sand in there. I'm sure the sand would absorb it and it will probably be hard to get out. It's just not a good idea and better to dose in your qt.

Reefahholic
04/03/2014, 09:07 PM
I do my research on the fish I buy. I know all abot the toxins they can secrete under stress. For this, I'd kinda like to qt him separately.


Buy a 5/g tank at petco or walmart. cheap and will work for that small fish. then you can put the others in the 20/g.

Electus unus
04/04/2014, 09:08 AM
^^^ this is the route I'll be going. My ammonia in the 20 now is almost to zero, nitrites steadily converting to nitrates. Will test waters tomorrow, hopefully I'll be ammonia and nitrite free. I've got water mixed for my water changes already, so that's a plus. I'm gettin ready to head to petco now for another 10 gal qt for the boxfish, which I'll just use water from the display and some safestart. I'll get this ich situation under control come hell or high water. Way to much money in this tank to watch it fail

Spar
04/04/2014, 12:39 PM
which I'll just use water from the display and some safestart. I'll get this ich situation under control come hell or high water. Way to much money in this tank to watch it fail
off to a good start. QT is the way to go to not water the tank fail down the road.

if you are planning to keep your DT fallow for 72 days (necessary to rid Ich), then you will need to make sure you aren't using DT water for any future water changes in your QT tanks (the initial is OK since you are about to start treatment). I figure you already know this, but worth pointing out just in case!

Reefahholic
04/05/2014, 02:48 AM
^^^ this is the route I'll be going. My ammonia in the 20 now is almost to zero, nitrites steadily converting to nitrates. Will test waters tomorrow, hopefully I'll be ammonia and nitrite free. I've got water mixed for my water changes already, so that's a plus. I'm gettin ready to head to petco now for another 10 gal qt for the boxfish, which I'll just use water from the display and some safestart. I'll get this ich situation under control come hell or high water. Way to much money in this tank to watch it fail

Welcome to the disease fourm. That's why we're all here. Most of us have had ICH and hate it. Not to mention all the other diseases. Good luck.:celeb1:

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 06:48 AM
I have one more question. If I were to put sand in the qt, treat with copper, cure the ich, and place the fish back in dt; will the copper absorbed by the sand cause any problems down the line IF the qt stays as just that? A qt for new fish? I mean, if anything, the remaining copper should be good for any new fish in the qt for a few weeks right?

scott3569
04/05/2014, 07:18 AM
OK this bring up and interesting question for me as I am just starting out, and don't even have water in my tank yet...

Can you treat for ich before you even put fish in so you don't have the issue??

Deinonych
04/05/2014, 07:27 AM
OK this bring up and interesting question for me as I am just starting out, and don't even have water in my tank yet...

Can you treat for ich before you even put fish in so you don't have the issue??

Certainly. Many people do this, myself included. For most species, I treat with chloroquine phosphate @ 40mg/gal for four weeks as part of my QT protocol.

scott3569
04/05/2014, 07:40 AM
Certainly. Many people do this, myself included. For most species, I treat with chloroquine phosphate @ 40mg/gal for four weeks as part of my QT protocol.

Ok, so now I am understanding a little more about the importance of a QT tank..even a small one..

I would assume ich can also be on LR and in LS..so if someone starts a tank cycle with ich already in it..can you treat your DT while in the cycling process??

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 08:12 AM
Just let it cycle for 72 days to insure the ich has run it's course.

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 08:18 AM
Can I get a response??? Lol

Also, what is this?? In the spot that I haven't hit recently that the filter blocks. Is THIS the protomont phase of the ich life cycle? Or natural tank algae..

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 08:20 AM
Also, can inverts get ich?

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 08:24 AM
Also, was used a lot. Lol my bad

Spar
04/05/2014, 09:06 AM
I have one more question. If I were to put sand in the qt, treat with copper, cure the ich, and place the fish back in dt; will the copper absorbed by the sand cause any problems down the line IF the qt stays as just that? A qt for new fish? I mean, if anything, the remaining copper should be good for any new fish in the qt for a few weeks right?

you risk the sand eventually leeching copper back out and not being able to control the levels appropriately, or not knowing the levels are getting out of control and the fish suffering. i would highly advise to just put a little sand in a tupperware cup and replace the sand completely inbetween QT's.

Also, can inverts get ich?
They can't get infected by Ich, BUT Ich can encyst on hard shelled inverts the same as rocks, equipment, etc. Whereas it may be highly unlikely, you do hear stories of snails bringing in Ich to a tank. Many strong QT supporting people on the forum just rinse inverts and put straight into the DT. I personally take the cautious road and QT inverts and coral for 72 days, with a fishless environment (fallow).

Spar
04/05/2014, 09:07 AM
Can I get a response??? Lol

Also, what is this?? In the spot that I haven't hit recently that the filter blocks. Is THIS the protomont phase of the ich life cycle? Or natural tank algae..

You won't be able to see with your own eyes any stage of Ich. Hard to tell from the picture what that is, but you may want to try razorblading them off. Are they hard?

scott3569
04/05/2014, 12:48 PM
So Electus unus...giving some of the answers that have been given..how long did you cycle you tank before adding all your stock?

Electus unus
04/05/2014, 08:55 PM
My tank was fully cycled in less than two weeks with the help of some pre established tank water, 200 dollars worth of liverock and sand, and safe start. I didn't have much knowledge on ich when I first started setting up. Had I known it would be an issue as it is, I would've let the tank cycle for at least 6 weeks

scott3569
04/06/2014, 09:09 AM
My tank was fully cycled in less than two weeks with the help of some pre established tank water, 200 dollars worth of liverock and sand, and safe start. I didn't have much knowledge on ich when I first started setting up. Had I known it would be an issue as it is, I would've let the tank cycle for at least 6 weeks


gotcha, well I hope you can get it under control!! And I hope that I don't make a mistake with my first set up..I wasn't really considering a QT tank..but now I am considering a 10 gallon

Reefahholic
04/06/2014, 11:52 AM
I have one more question. If I were to put sand in the qt, treat with copper, cure the ich, and place the fish back in dt; will the copper absorbed by the sand cause any problems down the line IF the qt stays as just that? A qt for new fish? I mean, if anything, the remaining copper should be good for any new fish in the qt for a few weeks right?


I have sand in one of my qt's for some Scooter Blenny's. I wouldn't do it again as I've found that it's harder to keep the copper at a stable level. Not to mention the detritus buildup in the sand. Bare-bottom is the way to go.

Reefahholic
04/06/2014, 11:54 AM
Just let it cycle for 72 days to insure the ich has run it's course.

You would be correct.

:frog:

SecretiveFish
04/07/2014, 10:02 AM
Ick Attack does not work. I know because I tried it many moons ago and all that happened was I now have less money than I did before I bought it and have fewer fish.

My story: I bought tons of this crap and treated my display tank. The fish "seemed" to get better, but now I know they had just build up a temporary immunity to the ICK in the system and/or the ICK was hiding in their gills. I added a new non-ill fish 5 months ago (I used ICK attack probably 1-2 years ago in this tank) and bam, ICK. I lost a couple of fish in a matter of days in the display tank, and several more in the QT before the medication had a chance to save them.

A note, I followed the recommendations for Cupramine (.5mg/L for 14 days) and that did not kill the ICK; it came back a few weeks later in the QT. After asking for help here, snorvich recommended 30 days at the .4mg/L level and this seems to have worked.

sreefs
04/07/2014, 02:39 PM
To answer you question, as reefahholic said sand is not a good idea in your QT with copper, very hard to keep at a therapeutic level. Also if you use copper do not use ammonia neutralizers, as this will raise copper to toxic levels.(Prime, AmQuel plus and others) I am sure you have already, but go over Steve's sticky's (snorvich) about ich and fish disease at the top they are very good!

sreefs
04/07/2014, 03:03 PM
Inverts can be a carrier, but they can not get sick from ich. The photo you posted is hard to see what it is, but it is Not the protomont phase of ich.

Electus unus
04/07/2014, 06:27 PM
Thank you all. I decided to move my LR and inverts to the 20 gallon. This 30 will be my new qt, and the 20g to a hospital or maybe a sump for my new 55 gallon I got for 25 bucks at a yard sale :D

I I plan on using the combined water from both tanks after the ich is fully irradiated, to fill the 55. If no ich is in either tanks, no worries right?

sreefs
04/07/2014, 06:44 PM
water is cheap, I would use new salt water!

Electus unus
04/07/2014, 07:13 PM
water is cheap, I would use new salt water!

I guess so, yeah. At least get a cycling during the ich removal process