Mandarin sick what is this?

[Neptune 555]

My Mandarin in QT is sick. He had a weird white spot on him before... but today I woke up early to start Tank Transfer however this does not look like ich to me? Can you help me identify so I can treat? I took the photo early 7:00am and used a flash light. Is this just what my mandarin looks like before coffee?

thank you!

[Neptune 555]

snorvich... please help... What is wrong with my Mandarin? He has been in QT for 2 weeks alone with an unknown source of chaeto so that he could eat pods.
* Is that white film in the morning normal? He looks better now..? has more color.
* Do I need to treat him w/ copper / prazi?
* Can I do TT with him along with my 2 clown fish and Puffer? I have (2) 20 gallon tanks for TT.
I absolutely don't want him infecting my other fish who really have been great in QT eating showing no signs of illness. I am doing TT just to be sure after spending countless hours reading this disease forum.

neptune

[rcmike]

I'm seriously not an expert on diseases but mandarins will look washed out and I'm pretty sure I have seen mucous coming off of them at night while sleeping.

[rcmike]

Oh, and I'd figure out what the spot is first. How long has it been there? If it's only one and been there a while it probably isn't ich. Also they have a thicker mucous and sand tends to stick to them.

[snorvich]

Does not look at all like cryptocaryon irritans (ich) to me. Did it have that spot when you purchased it? As noted above (by rcmike), mornings after its nightly loss of coloration, will have a loss of color. Is it hunting and eating?

[Neptune 555]

thanks.. Here is the photo of the spot... agree I don't think it is ich... but I don't know what it is? I have a 50 gallon full of pods for this guy.. but after 4 months of it being fallow... I am nervous to add him with out Qt and TT? I do think he is breathing heavy tho? See the tiny white spot on his side and the odd coloration on his eye?

273403

Suggestions on what this is.. so I can treat? Or if TT this guy along w/ prazi with my other fish? Or if I add him to DT where food is bountiful...

Neptune

[Deinonych]

Hard to say conclusively what this is, but I would NOT add to the DT until you are sure it is free of disease.

[snorvich]

Can you tell me a bit about his behavior? Eating copepods and/or frozen? Activity level? Reclusiveness? Respirations per 10 seconds?

[Neptune 555]

Mandarin behaviour - He is not very active / lays under rocks - I might say reclusive.. I see him under the LR that I added but never all over it? I only once saw him in the water column up to the heater where he pecked at it for food. 25 Respirations in 30 seconds. His side fins seem to get excited when I put food in however his pecking behavior is minimal. My last mandarin... was always swimming and moving on the rock looking for food? When I watched him at the LFS he was out in the open -however not as much hiding was available... he had been in store under a week the mandarins he came with are still in store - but not looking great? He did perk up and seemed to peck more at the store.

Can I upload video here? I took a 30 second video of him as he is just sitting at the side of the tank... and he didn't move away from the camera even when I shined the flashlight at him. Isn't that odd?

How do I treat him? He has been separate in QT since arrival. Since my other fish all seem better then fine... I don't think I will add him to TT process with them for fear of them getting sick. I have BSJ / 2 percula clowns / puffer / mystery wrasse in TT started this am. 2 20 gallons tank with Prime and prazi added.

Neptune,

ps thanks for the help! After 10 years w/out QT this is my first attempt at ich free tank and disease treatment. and of course it was hard to stay strong after going to LFS last night to pick up puffer. They don't understand why I am doing Tank Transfer... Had never heard of the practice. I asked them to check out Reef Central!!

[snorvich]

What you are describing is what I have seen with cyanide captured mandarins.

[Neptune 555]

ughh - OK so what does that mean? Can he recover? Should I just keep him in the 10 gallon Qt alone and not bothered by other fish? Is he uncomfortable?

Neptune,,,

I was thinking the same..

[Neptune 555]

Snorvich... please one more tiny question. The fish in my 20 gallon TT system. I have the BSJ / 2 clowns / puffer / wrasse (all are tiny) the tank is already showing some colour on my ammonia alert badge... I added one teaspoon of prazi / and 1/2 capful of Prime to help ammonia issues.

Fish look good they ate... any suggestions on why the ammonia alert badge is turning colours? Should I do anything? I actually don't have any more water... I will start making my second batch now.

Neptune

[snorvich]

ughh - OK so what does that mean? Can he recover? Should I just keep him in the 10 gallon Qt alone and not bothered by other fish? Is he uncomfortable?

Neptune,,,

I was thinking the same..

No, he is not uncomfortable. I have never seen one come back from this condition. He will just eventually fade away.

[snorvich]

Snorvich... please one more tiny question. The fish in my 20 gallon TT system. I have the BSJ / 2 clowns / puffer / wrasse (all are tiny) the tank is already showing some colour on my ammonia alert badge... I added one teaspoon of prazi / and 1/2 capful of Prime to help ammonia issues.

Fish look good they ate... any suggestions on why the ammonia alert badge is turning colours? Should I do anything? I actually don't have any more water... I will start making my second batch now.

Neptune

It is my recollection that using Prime will affect the ammonia alert badge despite there not being an ammonia problem. I am not chemistry proficient but I think the badge is picking up neutralized ammonia.

[rcmike]

This is just my opinion but maybe he is stressed being in a bare bottom 10 gal. tank? I have put scooter blennies in a bare bottom tank for QT before and they sat in the same spot most of he time and didn't eat that I could see. After putting them back in the display tank they resumed normal behavior.

[snorvich]

This is just my opinion but maybe he is stressed being in a bare bottom 10 gal. tank? I have put scooter blennies in a bare bottom tank for QT before and they sat in the same spot most of he time and didn't eat that I could see. After putting them back in the display tank they resumed normal behavior.

Possible. But with live rock, less likely. Way to test that is put a handful of chaeto (which contains copepods) in the tank. If he rises to the chaeto, he may be fine, if not, not so good.

[rcmike]

Oh sorry, I missed the LR part.

[Neptune 555]

I did a massive water change in the 10 gallon tank yesterday and removed half of the chaeto. It is sitting in a bucket - no aeration heat one day so far. The tank bottom is 30% covered with live rock. 15% covered with chaeto now. The back is black cover. I made him brine shrimp.. and am going to try and see what he does with that this morning. Will keep you posted... b/c I can't give up on him yet. BUT I do think it odd he NEVER even tried to pick at the rocks?

I will update this thread either way... with a status. For now tho... He will not get any other guests in the tank nor will I put him in DT for fear he might have something.

Neptune

[Newsmyrna80]

Did you do as Snorvich said to see if he rises to the chaeto?

[Neptune 555]

He does not rise to the cheato. In fact today he looks terrible I expect him to pass tonight... I added a feeding station of baby brine also. I want to keep him comfortable.. And fed if he so inclined buy I don't expect him to live 2 more days....

Neptune

[snorvich]

If you purchase a mandarin, always test in the LFS as suggested above. It will give an indication of whether it was cyanide captured.

[Neptune 555]

Hmm Mandarin looks like he has something not sure what? Can you help identify? I am still hoping that he enters my DT tank at some point... but think he will not make it? Should I stop his suffering at this point?

Is this cyanide poisoning? Or ich? Or velvet?

In the QT tank I did add chaeto from a LFS so that the mandarin could eat pods. This chaeto could have been contaminated? My thinking was that this would feed my madarin... while he was in QT. I was unable to find live pods / Nutramar ovum.. and did not want to add him to DT with out careful observation. (I now think he might have faired better if I added him to DT?) In the LFS the cheato had sea horses also living in the display where this was obtained and coral.

Since I have seen this whitish coloring on my last two fish who died in Qt in this tank... I am now alarmed? and still don't really know what this is?

Neptune...

the road back after being fallow for 3+ months has been challenging.... If my tanks were not filled with water ready and waiting I think I would give up today.