Help with low ALK! assistance needed!!

[Gibsh]

Hi there, new to the hobby with a new tank set up. About 20 gallons. After a 4 week cycle I added some bottled bacteria and a bubble magus skimmer. At this point my salinity was low at 1.018, and I had pre made salt in there from my lfs. I decided to get the salinity up to scratch and bought some aquavitro salinity and got it up to 1.026 with a couple of small water changes. (I realise this could be the root to my problem but just my thought) 7 days after the skimmer I picked up some turbos (5), astaria (5), nerite (3) conch(1) and a fire shrimp. All seem to have settled in nicely and are happily munching away. My problem comes with some recent results. I'm using Red Sea test kits for everything and api back up.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/17/tedagupa.jpg




Here's the results for when I added the first part of the cuc before this I kept a written note but all were normal values leading up to adding then and all of the important parameters that needed to be zero were so. Just to add to that table alk was averaging 10 dkh / 3.6 Meq/l and has steadily dropped over the past week to today's result being the lowest at 7dKH / 2.5Meq/l. So, my question is, should I do anything? I'm obviously worried about my alk, I have some reef foundation supplements but have managed to be okay without dosing anything based on test results ( I added the bacteria but that was more a piece of mind thing). I have recently read Dr. Randy Holmes's paper/article on ca, mg, and alk chemistry. However I get the impression that he wouldn't do anything at this point as alk is on the cusp of being too low. Basically I could talk about what I've read and read all day but I'm totally confused now and don't want to add somthing. I don't need to. Apologies for the life story and thank you anyone that helps in advance!

Gibsh

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/17/5a5yvame.jpg

[Gibsh]

Just to add, last night I manually removed some cyano algae which started to become a problem in conjunction with the phosphate levels last week. I thought id see if the new phos removal would do the trick, it did with the levels but not it deteriorating the actual algae so I removed it and it hasn't come back with the same vigor as when I removed small bits last week.

Gibsh.

[jbmills78]

According to Aquavitro's website their Salinity runs around 400~443mg/L calcium and 8.96~10.64 dKH. So it would seem your calcium is high and your Alk is low.

I would like to focus on the high calcium reading. How are you measuring salinity? I'm wondering if your salinity isn't too high.

Another thing you can try is testing a fresh batch of saltwater. If it test good you might just have to do some water changes to bring everything back in order. If Alk continues to drop then you may have to think about dosing.

That is the approach I would take if my numbers look like yours, which aren't really all that bad.

~J

[Gibsh]

Salinity is being measured with a h2ocean refractometer, calibrated recently. Yeh I'm a little concerned, maybe too much but I see it dropping off although alk was the same yesterday as it was today 7dKH and 2.5Meq/l. Thanks for the response J will test some sw tomorrow but i can't see it being that, but I will eliminate it tomorrow.

[jbmills78]

It looks like your testing every day. Since the only livestock you have is a CUC I think I would try testing once a week.

I rarely test unless I change something, get curious, or notice something not looking right. I've said it before and I think this holds true for first time reef keepers.... It is very easy to get caught up in chasing numbers when there really isn't a problem to begin with. I'm not saying that is what is going on but it could very well be. New tanks tend to be unstable and numbers can fluctuate from day to day.

I hope this helps you out.

~J

[Gibsh]

Yeh I've kinda got that impression that I may be going a bit crazy about it. I thought it would be important to keep a close eye on it after adding some cuc. I'm of course happy to leave those levels once they stabilise, but as you mentioned fluctuations are normal in a young tank. :/

[disc1]

It's OK to run your alk a little low until you get corals. It is normal for alkalinity to drop over time, that's why we end up dosing it once we have corals.

[Gibsh]

See that's the other thing I was thinking, I had a look at the guide for dosing it on the redsea reef foundation stuff and it is at the bottom of the range so as of now it seems it would be okay. So will this alk level predictably just keep dropping?

[jbmills78]

It might. Once things (coral, coralline, and other) start to consume it, then it will predictably go down. At that point you would dose. Right now you don't have any of those AFAIK. You also only have seven days worth of data that you posted.

Even if you did have coralline growth (looking at the pink rock) you should be able to manage Alk with water changes. Until your tank stabilizes I would take a break from daily testing and move towards weekly.

Once you add coral then you enter into a state of catch up with the coral growth-vs- numbers. With that said, you can have a fair amount of swing in the test numbers and have your animals thrive.

If the Alk is bothering you then I would test your mix and if you feel the need you can add sodium bicarbonate. I don't think it will hurt. At this point I think it is totally unnecessary.

I can only speak about what I would do if I were in your shoes. Hopefully some others will chime in with more experience than I.

~J

[Gibsh]

It all sounds good J. I have very little if any coraline algae, it seems to have got more prominent since I removed and replaced the phosphate removal media. However early stages of the tank. Thing is I don't want to just stop testing alk or do I just leave it! Thanks for the thoughts though they do seen to be the way I like to think. Just being new to this overall I've wanted to be in control of things being slowly realising that is impractical!

[Gibsh]

It seems - the alk drop.

[jbmills78]

You are absolutely correct about maintaining control. In 18 years of reef keeping I've learned that you are only in control as much as your tank will allow you to be :debi:

[Gibsh]

Nice, it's like I just needed reassuring that I shouldn't do anything, and things are going okay. Anyone else thinking similar/different feel free to chime in, otherwise thanks a bunch J!

[morgan175]

My opinion on your salt is don't waste the money. I used that stuff for a while. now I went to instant ocean I get two boxes for the price of one. I can do water changes for half price. Also not a fan of Red Sea I like salifert for calcium. Hanna for alk. Also check your mag. I found salinity was at 1200 which is fine but the science says 1300 is better.

[Gibsh]

Would you say it wasn't a very balanced salt then? Because I got this salt so hopefully I would save money in dosing supplements all of the time. Up to now it's been great but just this recent alk problem, which is possible nothing to do with the salt and just early stages of a tank if seems. Each to their own on the tests though I guess, everything seems to have measured okay and demonstrated a cycle and rising levels of ca and mg in line with water changes. So I don't know about that. More opinions though I guess - all helps me think about it. I've got about a year minimum supply of the stuff so in in it for the long haul, I've heard good and bad about both those salts tbh.

[ReeferSutherlnd]

Hey I noticed from your excel sheet that your ph is going down some. When you dip below 8.2 you start seeing more algae. Just a thought...

[Ryecoon]

whoa you Calcium is sky high. Gradually Drop that first and then monitor the Alk

[Gibsh]

Did a few tests tonight (couldn't help it J!) ph has dropped to 7.8, ca 580ppm and alk is still at 2.5Meq/l phosphate is .36 which I thought was weird as I replaced the phosphate removing media a few days ago. Can you exhaust these things that quickly? It was .64 then 0 for a few days and is up to .32 now. Confusing but I'm still not willing to dose anything. Ryecoon, I've not heard of high calcium being that detrimental, plus I have 1 shrimp and snails atm. Ca will drop with top ups/ water changes right? :)

[jbmills78]

I didn't even notice the falling pH. Hopefully Disc1 will show back up. Your pH and low Alk might make some sense. You may have a CO2 issue. Read here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php and pay particular attention to the causes.

I still think some new tank syndrome is whats going on but from here on out I think I'll just hang back and see what the others have to say.


~J

ETA: I'll back up what Morgan recommended. I use Instant Ocean exclusively. The only thing I dose is Kalkwasser via drip for Ca and Alk. Every other parameter is GTG.

[Rudimenta]

Sounds like CO2 issue to me

[Gibsh]

Will post some recent results tonight and some stuff I've done to try and stabilise things.

[lynchmob3000]

My opinion on your salt is don't waste the money. I used that stuff for a while. now I went to instant ocean I get two boxes for the price of one. I can do water changes for half price. Also not a fan of Red Sea I like salifert for calcium. Hanna for alk. Also check your mag. I found salinity was at 1200 which is fine but the science says 1300 is better.


+1 if your mags around 1200, and i bet it is bc of the vitro salt, then alk usually will bounce around. Adjust it to 1400 and your alk will usually get stable. Just my two pennies

[Gibsh]

My mg is 1360.