Best Metal Halide Bulb for SPS coloration

[xenon]

I ditched my GHL Mitras for some ReefBrite Halide Hybrids with 400w Radium 20K and the results were incredible. Let's just say LED is dead to me now. :lolspin:

I am being told the 400w Radium 20K are not as good as the 250w Phoenix 14K so I am looking for advice from the people who have used them both.

The application is for a 8ft x 4ft x 12" coral bed that is SPS only. Half the system is frags, the other half colonies.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Realposition]

i have used both, with only 12" depth you could easily get away with using 250w but imo 400w 20k radium is the gold standard for sps

[captjab]

I can't say that I've ever heard that a 250w Phoenix is better than a 400w Radium, both are great bulbs, but it's tough to compare the two. Radium has always been my favorite halide.

[Peter Eichler]

IMO, Radiums are hands down the best MH bulbs for SPS color. I would seriously doubt the advice of someone claiming the Phoenix is better. I've used both the DE and mogul Phoenix bulbs, they good bulbs, but not as nice as the radium when it comes to coral color.

[jackson6745]

Ive had both, phoenix can't compare to 400w Radium.

[E36328i]

400w radium is king for a reason. It is simply the best.

[Bigcefa]

I switched from led to the same fixture I'm running a radium, wasn't even a question which bulb to run

[alebrun]

Been using phoenix 250 bulbs for 8 years now.. I'v had the best coloration and growth from them..

[Electrobes]

I honestly don't know is whether one is better than the other is significant enough to warrant that one is truly better than the other. I think you'll get great growth from both regardless which bulb you go with. I'll personally find out soon, as with my upgrade build I am going from my 14K Phoenix bulb to two Radiums a friend is giving me. :D

[xenon]

Great feedback, thanks guys. I just placed an order for more 400w fixtures to cover the entire 4x8 coral bed.

Considering the 12" depth. You don't feel its too much light to cause frags to bleach?

I can always dose some KZ Pohl's Xtra to combat SPS from bleaching out.

[hedgedrew]

Aqua connect 400w. 14 k. Blows them all away. Can get from germany. Has the violets and uv that lack in radium.

[Bill@IA]

Great feedback, thanks guys. I just placed an order for more 400w fixtures to cover the entire 4x8 coral bed.

Considering the 12" depth. You don't feel its too much light to cause frags to bleach?

I can always dose some KZ Pohl's Xtra to combat SPS from bleaching out.

How high AWL (Above Water Level) will you be hanging these fixtures?? Keep your PAR meter handy.
If your water is extremely nutrient poor, KZ Pohl's Xtra SPECIAL may be a better choice.

:)

[Peter Eichler]

Great feedback, thanks guys. I just placed an order for more 400w fixtures to cover the entire 4x8 coral bed.

Considering the 12" depth. You don't feel its too much light to cause frags to bleach?

I can always dose some KZ Pohl's Xtra to combat SPS from bleaching out.

I would suggest the 250w radium if it's not too late... They last longer than the "400w" due the the 400w being over driven with the ballasts we have available in the US. This bulb was meant to be driven closer to 360w and out ballasts usually cause them to deteriorate pretty quickly. I also like the color of the 250w driven by an "HQI" ballast or an electronic ballast with an "HQI" setting slightly better than the 400w on an electronic ballast. Since your tank is not deep, the 250w is more than enough.

Lastly, Pohl's extra won't fight photo-inhibition, just lightening of corals from your nutrient levels being too low. In that case, a small dose of some type of nitrogen will probably have the same effect and be much cheaper.

[reeflover62]

I ran the 400 watt radium on tank but was way too blue with my electronic ballast. I like the xm 20k and reefflux 12k are great lamps and the corals look great.

[Tweaked]

That's a big frag tank lol. 3 250w radiums on m80 ballasts IMO.

[Big E]

I ran the 400 watt radium on tank but was way too blue with my electronic ballast. I like the xm 20k and reefflux 12k are great lamps and the corals look great.

Same here, the Radium is too blue........I used all three with an electronic ballast......the 12 Reeflux is the one I like best.

[reeflover62]

Aqua connect 400w. 14 k. Blows them all away. Can get from germany. Has the violets and uv that lack in radium.

I ran these also until they stopped making them and did a lot of research found out coralvue bought them out and the lamp was revamped is now called 14k Aquastar. I have a collection of about 8 different lamps and tried different ones over my tank to find the one that delivers the colors I liked best and it was between the aquaconnect and reeflux 12k by far on the majority of corals. The only reason I am running an xm 20k now is because my 30k lokani looks like poop:sad1: and only looked its best under this lamp.

[DaddyJax]

I ran only Reeflux bulbs and loved them. I used both 10k and 12k. If you dont have any supplemental blue then 12k is the way to go. 10k can be perfect, crisp white with all the colors just popping but you have to have the right ballasts or they will not look right.

[Big E]

I ran only Reeflux bulbs and loved them. I used both 10k and 12k. If you dont have any supplemental blue then 12k is the way to go. 10k can be perfect, crisp white with all the colors just popping but you have to have the right ballasts or they will not look right.

Yup, I would add that both bulbs produce the best blues in acros I've ever seen.

[reeflover62]

I ran only Reeflux bulbs and loved them. I used both 10k and 12k. If you dont have any supplemental blue then 12k is the way to go. 10k can be perfect, crisp white with all the colors just popping but you have to have the right ballasts or they will not look right.

DaddyJax tank is what made me go with the reeflux lamps. Check out his tank and it will be an easy choice.

[hedgedrew]

Guys. The aqua connect bulbs are not dead. I have ordered from germany. Coralvue used to distribute them but that aqua star is not the same bulb. I have the the original. Color renditions are out of this world. Just has more whites and violets vs reeflux and radium.

[MIKE NY]

....for me a Radium bulb on a M80 ballast has given me the best coloration...although many electronic ballasts will more efficiently fire them, they are way too blue..

[xenon]

Lastly, Pohl's extra won't fight photo-inhibition, just lightening of corals from your nutrient levels being too low. In that case, a small dose of some type of nitrogen will probably have the same effect and be much cheaper.

What's the difference between "photo-inhibition" and zoox being expelled due to too much light exactly?

I was thinking Pohl's extra would solve any issues I would have with bleaching.

[jackson6745]

I ran only Reeflux bulbs and loved them. I used both 10k and 12k. If you dont have any supplemental blue then 12k is the way to go. 10k can be perfect, crisp white with all the colors just popping but you have to have the right ballasts or they will not look right.

DaddyJax tank is what made me go with the reeflux lamps. Check out his tank and it will be an easy choice.

I ran 10k and 12k reeflux in the past on coralvue ballasts an the color was awesome. This bulb/ballast combo does something strange to your blue colors, in a good way. You will see blue colors pop like never before. I don't mean your blue coals will color up blue in time, the effect is immediate. Something about this bulb/ballast will make your blues fluoresce like crazy, net even Radiums can compare with this.

I am currently running a lumatek ballast with a 400w radium. I tried running a reflex 12k bulb but it looks pinkish with this ballast. I do have an old coralvue ballast laying around but my tank is doing very well under radium so I'm reluctant to change.

[loweryster]

Guys. The aqua connect bulbs are not dead. I have ordered from germany. Coralvue used to distribute them but that aqua star is not the same bulb. I have the the original. Color renditions are out of this world. Just has more whites and violets vs reeflux and radium.


How are you able to order them? Is there someone in the USA that has access to them?

[jackson6745]

I remember those 400w Aqua connects being very expensive. Something like $120 a bulb several years ago.

[loweryster]

So do I. Thought they were too expensive to try.

[reeflover62]

Aquarium Specialty carried them and cost 140.00 then they had a special at 89.00 is when I got mine. After sold out that was the last of them I think in USA.

[Yodeling]

I've tried quite a few different bulbs. Finally settled on 400W SE XM20k on magnetic ballast. Radiums were a close second. Phoenix 14kk are a good performer for coral growth, but the color was a bit too white for me. Btw, the Reeflux 14kk was absolute garbage.

[reeflover62]

How are you able to order them? Is there someone in the USA that has access to them?
I have a used one with about 8months on it if you want too try one.http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/conchreef/IMG_20140420_132423_943_zpsc5d4f32d.jpg

[loweryster]

Thanks for the offer, I wouldn't mind trying one but it will be absolutely pointless if there is no easy way to get new ones. A 400w radium over-driven is hard to beat, plus almost everyone has them in stock.

[hedgedrew]

they last 2x AS LONG AS RADIUMS can go year with these so price is fine i just ordered 12 for 110 each

[loweryster]

they last 2x AS LONG AS RADIUMS can go year with these so price is fine i just ordered 12 for 110 each

From where? Also my understanding is they are the same as the Pheonix.

[hedgedrew]

Direct from Germany. There is no phoenix single ended 400 w bulb. They are close but these are whiter more crystal looking. Very faint blue lots of uv and violet. I will post the info on where we order

[trueblackpercula]

When I was using metal halide bulbs I couldn't get the color I was looking for until I found an aquaconnect bulb. It's the best metal halide bulb out there. If you can find them get one as you will be blown away with what they put out and the color your Sps will have.
Everything else is just secondary com paired to the aquaconnect.
Michael

[djkms]

Anyone have experience with the 250w?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Connect-Metal-Halide-Bulb-250W-11K-German-made-/390314907406

[trueblackpercula]

That's not the bulb I used as mine was a 14k and came from Germany.

[ct_vol]

I agree that the Aquaconnect is one of the nicest bulbs out there, but they are no where to be found for the last couple years. If someone has more info than, "you have to get them from Germany" I'm all ears...

[acesq]

I agree that the Aquaconnect is one of the nicest bulbs out there, but they are no where to be found for the last couple years. If someone has more info than, "you have to get them from Germany" I'm all ears...

Not sure where Drew is ordering his from, but I found this:
http://www.shop-meeresaquaristik.de/index.php?language=en&cPath=165_222_223_331

I have ordered from a German supplier in the past (Sewatec.de) and have had no issues.

I'll wait to see if Drew posts his source. If he doesn't, I'll order from here. I'm interested in seeing the bulb after reading this thread.

[loweryster]

If we can find someone who stocks them and is reputable we should see if we can put together some sort of group buy. With so many dumping LED going back to MH, bulbs like this need to be back on the market. Only problem is warrenty has always been an issues, doesn't bother me, it's a light bulb.

[Peter Eichler]

The Aquastar bulb is made by the same people (Neuco) and is supposed to be a new and improved version of the Aqua Connect. I'm guessing the Aqua Connect was discontinued. The mogul based Aqua Connect 250w was a nice bulb, but I still prefer the Radium for coral color and appearance.

[loweryster]

These?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977499&page=1

[ct_vol]

The Aquastar bulb is made by the same people (Neuco) and is supposed to be a new and improved version of the Aqua Connect. I'm guessing the Aqua Connect was discontinued. The mogul based Aqua Connect 250w was a nice bulb, but I still prefer the Radium for coral color and appearance.

Yeah, from everything I have read and heard the Aquastar is not an upgrade over the AquaConnects. Disappointing to see this is how this company decided to change.

[jda]

I have 400W 20K Radium on 400w mag ballasts, 250W Radium on HQI and 14K Phoenix on HQI. All are awesome, but different.

I like all three of these over a 14K AquaConnect on 400w mag ballast.

[trueblackpercula]

Premium aquatics sold them. Call them and ask them as they may help.

[ssdawood]

That german site is ready to mail it to US for 330 dollars for two bulbs. Drew if you can do better please help.

[ReeferJohn408]

400 watts 20k always look better on my SPS and other corals.

[ct_vol]

Premium aquatics sold them. Call them and ask them as they may help.

PA doesn't carry the Aquastar or Aquaconnect... I'll email Jeremy though.

I have Radium's and my coloration is good. I always preferred the overall temperature of the Aquaconnects though.

[loweryster]

I've got an email into him as well, I told him there is a lot of interest. Maybe he can help.

[acesq]

I ordered 4 of the 250w aqua connect from the German site. I have radiums now so I'll post my impressions once they get delivered.

[Nanook]

400w Radiums on HQI are overdriven, so shorter life, but they are the best looking bulb I have ever seen in the 15 years I've ran metal halides. They are brighter than the 250's, bluer than the 250's and have higher PPFD compared to the 250's. The growth and coloration of acropora under 400w Radiums on HQI is phenomenal. That being said, I have settled for 250w Radiums and Phoenix on HQI ballasts, supplemented with VHO super actinic bulbs. The look is close to the same, but not quite;)

Replacing 400w Radiums every 6-8 months does stink. I think the Aquaconnect is pretty much the identical bulb as the Ushio 14K, which is a really nice bulb. I don't go in for the "more expensive the bulb, the better it is theory".

[AcroporAddict]

I used Helios 250 and 400 watt 20k bulbs, and those were the best bulbs I have ever used. Even better than Radiums, IMO, which I use now.

Problem was their quality was so spotty, that one of every three bulbs you buy would be bad. Retailers in the US stopped carrying them 4 years ago or so.

[acesq]

The 250W aqua connects ended up costing me $110 each. A good amount more than the radiums, but if they last even close to the 2 years Drew says they last, it will be worth it. If not, it won't be the first or last time in this hobby that I've spent more than I had to! Half the fun is the experimenting.

To Nanook's comment, Sanjay has tested the Ushio and the Aqua connect 400W bulbs (Ushio doesn't make a 250W 14k). His results show that they are not the same bulb. Here is the spectral plot of the two Ushio 14k's against the Aqua connect using the same Blueline ballast from the Manhattan reefs lighting guide:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting4/tmp/64d93744e72c07e83eff706ba3675f41.png

That peak at 450 is what makes those colors glow.

[djkms]

For anyone interested; I have been running 250w SE radium 20k's on my 225 and it was time to change them. My buddy had a couple of 250w SE Phoenix 14k's laying around so I gave them a shot. Honestly I cannot see much difference between the 2. I ran them side by side and the Phoenix bulb is just a tad bit whiter than the radium and a little brighter (probably due to the age of my radium bulb). This is all on a galaxy select a watt ballast. Needless to say I plan on using the Phoenix's for the next 9 months.

[Nanook]

To Nanook's comment, Sanjay has tested the Ushio and the Aqua connect 400W bulbs (Ushio doesn't make a 250W 14k). His results show that they are not the same bulb. Here is the spectral plot of the two Ushio 14k's against the Aqua connect using the same Blueline ballast from the Manhattan reefs lighting guide:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting4/tmp/64d93744e72c07e83eff706ba3675f41.png

That peak at 450 is what makes those colors glow.

I was only talking about 400 watt Aquaconnect bulbs,

[acesq]

I was only talking about 400 watt Aquaconnect bulbs,

That's what the chart shows -- the 14k 400w Aquaconnect vs the 14k 400w Ushios.

[bogg]

I've always ran 10k xm for par and growth and I've tried lots of bulbs the elos was a nice one but pricey the radium is a powerful bulb raise your lights when you switch this one out lol I love the 10k for pinks and yellows though The radium does look great for popping blues and purples wish I had more room to do both
I'm currently using 2 250 Phoenix's and using 2 150 radiums on ice caps also with a combo of t5 hoping to get the white for the lighter colors to pop also on the frag tank 2 radiums and one Phoenix

[Reefvet]

I'm setting up a 150W fixture I have used in years and need a bulb. It'll be supplemented with 4 T5 24"

I haven't bought a 150 in years. What about the Phoenix 14K ?

[Jeremy B.]

The Phoenix 14k in the 150w configuration is a bit more blue than the 250w setup. If you're looking for it to be a bit more on the blue side this would be my suggestion. If you're wanting it to be more white with just a very slightly blue tint then I'd do with the Ushio 14k.

[jda]

Which ballast? It matters on DE stuff. Electronic will be quite a bit bluer IME, whereas on ANSI HQI, they are more like described in most of this thread.

[hedgedrew]

Ushio 14k looks like a yellow 10k. Heck the hailton 10k nulb is bluer in appearance. That aqua connect is perfect and there is no bulb like it out there. Reeflux 12 is close but still the not comparable in violets or 550 white.

[hedgedrew]

Look I just ordered 12. Anyone wants to try one contact me and I'll send to you. If you want it just reimburse me. If not send it back to me. Let you know when they come

[Jeremy B.]

The Ushio 14k is a true 14k lamp. If your water is clear then the bulb is very crisp white, however if your water has the ever so slightest yellow tint to it then they will look yellow. If you run any supplementation with them they will look very crisp ice white with a very small tint of blue. I've ran them on every type of ballast you can think of, and this holds true for all of them except an M80 or M81. Those will pump even more white/yellow light through them, very slightly lowering the CCT of the lamp. As jda mentioned above the type of ballast you're running plays a lot into the coloration of the lamp when running.

[jackson6745]

A halide thread….

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/13962877316_96ff5b7ae6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ngRoY5)Unknown (https://flic.kr/p/ngRoY5) by rich.colombo (https://www.flickr.com/people/110930925@N05/), on Flickr

[ssdawood]

The 250W aqua connects ended up costing me $110 each. A good amount more than the radiums, but if they last even close to the 2 years Drew says they last, it will be worth it. If not, it won't be the first or last time in this hobby that I've spent more than I had to! Half the fun is the experimenting.

To Nanook's comment, Sanjay has tested the Ushio and the Aqua connect 400W bulbs (Ushio doesn't make a 250W 14k). His results show that they are not the same bulb. Here is the spectral plot of the two Ushio 14k's against the Aqua connect using the same Blueline ballast from the Manhattan reefs lighting guide:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting4/tmp/64d93744e72c07e83eff706ba3675f41.png

That peak at 450 is what makes those colors glow.


Did you use the same site listed above.

[acesq]

Did you use the same site listed above.

Yes.

[ct_vol]

The Ushio 14k is a true 14k lamp. If your water is clear then the bulb is very crisp white, however if your water has the ever so slightest yellow tint to it then they will look yellow. If you run any supplementation with them they will look very crisp ice white with a very small tint of blue.

You're making me want to switch over to the Ushio's. The Radium's are just too blue for my taste with actinics, although I am running Lumatek ballasts.

[M Woodhill]

Am I the only one that likes the traditionaly xm 10k+actnic supplements?

[Yodeling]

Am I the only one that likes the traditionaly xm 10k+actnic supplements?

I ran this setup with VHOs in the past. Great growth but color was a bit off. Too much yellow, not enough blue even with actinics.

[bogg]

I guess it depends on how much actinic vs halide
I have 8 39w t5 with 2 150 and 2 250 hqi for me it was probably easier to make it look good
To each is own though I know when I look at the frag tank under just led than look at the display with the halides it looks bad but before just looking at the display it looked great
Your eyes get used to the light IMO

[Denadai]

250W 10K XM Really like this bulb

http://denadaireef.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/color2.jpg?w=750&h=515

[loweryster]

250W 10K XM Really like this bulb

http://denadaireef.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/color2.jpg?w=750&h=515

Can you provide more details, ballast and supplementation?

[M Woodhill]

250W 10K XM Really like this bulb

http://denadaireef.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/color2.jpg?w=750&h=515

I'll ditch my t5 and return to my old way XM 10k plus actinic supplements when I upgrade in few years to come

[Piper27]

I like 10k xms also with t5s and crees for supplements. I ran the lumateks with them. Reflux. 400w 12k we're good too but I had a problem with varying bulb colors from what I remember.

[jda]

Am I the only one that likes the traditionaly xm 10k+actnic supplements?

I do, but I needed 4x VHO Super Actinics to make the tank look good with the 10K. Even though, I really do like this combo, I save the 640W of VHO and just run a 14k phoenix bulb instead.

[Jeremy B.]

Welles used 3 x 10k 400w XM on his tank of the month that was supplemented with VHO super actinic and a 70/30 mix of blue to white Cree LED (DIY).

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/images/magazine/TOTM/sept09/img_5889.jpg

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's been active here on RC for a while, but here is the link to his TOTM in 2009:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/past-issues/2009/september-2009/article/25-tank-of-the-month

[M Woodhill]

Welles used 3 x 10k 400w XM on his tank of the month that was supplemented with VHO super actinic and a 70/30 mix of blue to white Cree LED (DIY).

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/images/magazine/TOTM/sept09/img_5889.jpg

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's been active here on RC for a while, but here is the link to his TOTM in 2009:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/past-issues/2009/september-2009/article/25-tank-of-the-month

I don't know if PA can ship to China. I worked in Beijing and the market there is horrible with a lots of enthusiasts dying for good equipments. I could travel to HK easily and bought most of my things there

the market was kinda full of phonies. PA should step in and bring the best to there:bounce1:

[loweryster]

Welles used 3 x 10k 400w XM on his tank of the month that was supplemented with VHO super actinic and a 70/30 mix of blue to white Cree LED (DIY).

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/images/magazine/TOTM/sept09/img_5889.jpg

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he's been active here on RC for a while, but here is the link to his TOTM in 2009:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/past-issues/2009/september-2009/article/25-tank-of-the-month

Amazing!

[Piper27]

250W 10K XM Really like this bulb

http://denadaireef.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/color2.jpg?w=750&h=515

Denadai, how old is this pic? Is it your tank?

[Denadai]

Can you provide more details, ballast and supplementation?

I was using a ballast that doesn´t exist in USA....very simple ballast from brazil :hmm5:

There is no supplements here..just ca reactor , WC , GFO

Denadai, how old is this pic? Is it your tank?

Yes..this is my old tank....I took this pic in 2005..the time is changing so fast . I miss this tank

You can see more pics here : http://denadai-reef.com/reef-600l/

Best Regards

[Piper27]

Very nice! I think I remember your tank, it was inspiring and one reason I went and purchased the 10k xm bulbs.

[BrentH]

Anyone ever mess with the ushios 400 watt 20k?

[Jeremy B.]

Ushio 400w 20k has a slightly warmer appearance versus a Radium when being driven at lower wattages, such as using an electronic ballast at a regular 400w setting, or on a magnetic pulse start ballast. It does give of a very good amount of PAR off of those ballasts and settings for a blue lamp though. When upping the wattage through the lamp such as running it on a Super Lumens setting or an hold 400w HQI ballast it doesn't whiten up much, it still stays pretty blue, but the biggest thing is that you don't really see much PAR increase out of it like you would a Radium.

Really it all boils down to which ballast you're running it on, which setting if it's a select-a-watt, and what color you're after. All in all it's a good lamp, just still very hard to beat a Radium - other than spectral life.