New to dosing. I have questions.

[Aww7979]

Hello. I've just started dosing. My water changes are no longer keeping up and I'm excited to see more growth. Three weeks ago my DKH was about 5.9 and my CA was 340. Everything was good. Good color, polyp extension and what I think is good growth.

My target is 9 DKH and a CA of 440. So I followed the BRS calculator for my amounts needed for both additions. I was nervous about dosing so I split each dosage into fifths so I could dose then test. My first time dosing I was two fifths (1/5 per night) into the ALK dosing and my test results were 9.2 DKH. I was surprised so I waited a week and did my scheduled 15 gallon water change. I got busy and finally tested 3 nights ago. I was back down to 5.9 DKH. I'm sure some of the drop was the water change.

So friday night I dosed 1/5 of my ALK dosage then tested Saturday anticipating some movement. My value didn't move, still 5.9 DKH. So Saturday night I dosed a 2/5 dosage for a two day total of 3/5. I tested today, Sunday, and it's still 5.9 DKH. I'm at a loss....

My calcium moves as anticipated but seems to lower my DKH as it rises. I gather that is normal.

BRS calculator said to dose 4.8 tsp of dry soda ash to move from 5.9 to 9.0. My dosages are 1tsp of dry soda ash in 1 gallon of RODI dosed over about 8 hours.

So my question...

1: Was it a fluke that my values moved as fast as they did when I first dosed? Has anyone else seen this?

2: Is it a fluke that my values haven't changed with my latest dosage? Should I just up the dosage?

Any other input would be great.

90 gallon DT, 30 gallon sump, skimmer, gfo, carbon, lots of light, lots of flow, & refugium. Current parameters.

1.025
PH 8.2
DKH 5.9
CA 430
Mg 1280
Po4 .04
No3 0.0

I'm also trying to add a current picture so you guys can see what I'm working with.

[trueblackpercula]

You may want to have your water test locally to see if your kits are still good. 5.9 is extremely low. Or you can try testing a batch of newly made salt to see if your kits give you different readings. Raise your alk slowly as you don't want to large of a swing.

[Aww7979]

Monday April 21,

So in another turn of events. I used a Hanna checker for both DKH and Ca.

My readings with the Hanna today are...

4.536 DKH
571 CA

My readings with RedSea today are...

5.6 DKH
410 CA

I haven't dosed Ca in over 3 weeks and my tests have sapped all of my confidence in the numbers. I have not dosed Alk since Saturday night. I have mixed a dosage of Alk to dose. I have upped the amount of soda ash to two tablespoons in one gallon of RODI. Everything I see about this stuff says it devolves into a clear liquid with little to no sediment. I mixed my gallon last night and let it set over night. I have something that looks like skim milk with over a a1/4" of sediment that will not dissolve. Is the soda ash I'm using bad? Any thoughts?

The BRS video of them making and dosing their "2 part" shows 2 cups of soda ash dissolved in a gallon of RODI and through the magic of TV it is clear. Am I just screwing around with tablespoons and teaspoons for no good reason?

[Tweaked]

I have personally never seen that much difference in results on alk between Hanna and Red Sea. I use these brands exclusively and are always spot on with the exception of the Hanna Ca tester. Junk IMO. Regardless, the alk is low of course.

[Aww7979]

Do either of you dose? If you do, which method do you use? I don't like this soda ash that I'm using. I think I want something that is more refined that I can control more with less pit falls.

[Tweaked]

ESV two part and ESV mg on BRS dosing pumps controlled by Apex.

[Aww7979]

Last night I dosed the mixture of 2 tablespoons of soda ash in 1 gallon of RODI.

Today's Alk reading is 4.76 DKH with the Hanna checker. So tonight I am going to dissolve 1/2 a cup of soda ash in a gallon of water and dose.

Red Sea test kit says my DKH is 8.4 :confused:

[Aww7979]

I guess I'm waiting a night before dosing again. What are the chances that the Hanna is wrong or I'm doing it wrong?

[trueblackpercula]

Yes I dose ESV two part with a dosing pump. I wouldn't worry too much about the calcium right now as it will slowly get used up. As for the alk you need to raise it slowly to get to the mark you want to be at. Most keep there alk between 8 and 9 with good results for the reef tanks.
Try another brand of additives for your alk maybe it's a bad batch. Hope this helps
Michael

[Art13]

I dose with brs soda ash and their calcium supplement that comes in a package, i haven't had any issues at all with it. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the red sea test kits, but go on youtube and search for how to use them, this helped me out a lot. I also dose by hand daily, once in the morning and once at night, no issues. My consumption is not high yet though, about .6dkh and 5ppm calcium a day, so two doses won't cause too much of a swing in params for me to be worried.

[Aww7979]

Thanks guys all good info. I did not dose last night, Tuesday night, but I'm testing today with both kits anyhow just for a base line.

Hanna alk reeding 82 = 4.592 DKH

RedSea alk reading .48 titrant used = 6.7 DKH.

Tomorrow I'm taking a sample to the LFS to have them test it....

On another note things are looking great these days.

[nazarma]

I have the same issue with bra stuff. Can't figure it out. The only differnce is I am actually using a doser. At this time imam dosing 150ml of brs all solution and I went up as high as 250ml with no difference in all reading. Also used Red Sea and Hanna to double check. I hope someone can help as I am lost. My mg is 1400 and cal at 420.

[OzarksReef]

If you're using the standard BRS 2-part kit, you're not dosing the right amount. As you point out a couple of posts up, you should be using 2-cups to 1-gallon and then using the calculator to determine how much of the mixed solution you should use to raise your alkalinity. In the case of 90 gallons, to go from 5.0 dKH to 8.0 dKH, you would dose a total of 6.5 oz of the mixed solution. Of course, you would not run to raise it that quickly. They recommend no more than 1.4 dKH increase per day.

You also mention a sediment after adding the soda ash. This hasn't been my experience with it in more than 4 years of using their 2-part solution. It looks murky after first mixing and the next morning is very clear with no sediment.

On a side note, I have to wonder about the accuracy of the tests you're running. To be under 5 dKH and have SPS that still looks good seems unlikely.

[Aww7979]

Thanks Ozarks, I think your right. I think my ash is old or absorbed some moisture. Plus I think that my Hanna checker is not right. I'm going to try a different container of reagent.

Hanna test same reagent as previous tests.
4.98 DKH

Hanna test new bottle of reagent.
4.65 DKH

RedSea test.
7.8 DKH

I did dose last night, that's why there is an increase. My theory is that for some reason my Hanna is not working properly. I think everyone is right, my alk can't be as low as the Hanna says it is. I do 15 to 20 gallon water changes every two or three weeks and always have. Things are used to it. I don't think my alk load is great enough to have driven my alk down to where the Hanna says it is.

I'm going to stop dosing for at least a week. I'll test every day or so to get an idea of a pattern. Time to just enjoy it and stop worrying about it. I shot some cool photos with my iPhone. They're not perfect but I got some good shots. I don't know how to post more that one at a time so check out they new ones I've uploaded.

Adam

[Reefvet]

I've been using the Red Sea Alk kit on the recommendation of my LFS and found it to be easy, accurate and consistent.

They do have a forum here with the tutorials for their test kits (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2056381).

[Aww7979]

Tested again tonight.

Hanna - 4.2

RedSea - 6.4

[natas]

First make sure you test everyday at the same time. Coral and coraline algea will consume what you are adding. Your reading in the am will be much different than the pm.

While I am a fan of redseas test kits I am a bigger fan of hanna. I have used both red sea and hanna for alk and I can get my hanna measuring very consistently by doing three test in a row. If I do this with the redsea the three test have a fairly large range. Also make sure you are doing the correct math with calculating dkh with the hanna meter.

[Aww7979]

First make sure you test everyday at the same time. Coral and coraline algea will consume what you are adding. Your reading in the am will be much different than the pm.

While I am a fan of redseas test kits I am a bigger fan of hanna. I have used both red sea and hanna for alk and I can get my hanna measuring very consistently by doing three test in a row. If I do this with the redsea the three test have a fairly large range. Also make sure you are doing the correct math with calculating dkh with the hanna meter.

I like the idea of doing the tests 3 at a time for an average. Even though one of my tests may be wrong, can I still use it to gauge Alk consumption? If I look at my last two tests done with the Red Sea it would appear that in 2 days my tank consumed 1.4 DKH. Correct? If it is correct is that a lot of consumption?

So if I am going to increase 1dkh per day I would also have to take into effect my daily consumption which is aprox .7 DKH. Looks like I dose 1.7 DKH daily until my goal is reached?

[Dapg8gt]

Have you tried using sodium bi-carb(baking soda) ?Or just using randy's recipie instructions either #1 or 2?(pretty much the same as brs I think) .. I can raise my tank(about 120g) 1 dkh with about 120ml of it at randy's ratio. Seems there is something not right with your ratio and method for the soda ash. Why aren't you mixing a gallon at full strength and following the calculator? You can/should raise it daily and I Def wouldn't wait a week between dosing that's not going to help and it's not good for the tank.

I would track your consumption over the course of 24 hours, use the calculator to find out how much full strength product you need to keep it there, then use the calculator again to see how much it says your volume of water needs to raise it 1 dkh and also use that.. If you are getting too much of a pH swing using the soda ash for the consumption plus the raising of the value combined try using straight baking soda for a few of the doses throughout the day. It doesn't have a drastic raising of pH and actually lowers it so it's good to use it if you have elevated pH from tinkering with you alk.

I would Def be getting some different kits as verification.. If you haven't read this I think it will help you out a lot on understanding what you need to do and what is actually going on..

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/4/chemistry

[A. Grandis]

Oh man, that should be easier than that!
Shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I went through the same stress when I stated with the dosing...

I use RedSea tests and they are the only ones I use.
I also monitor the pH with a Milwaukee pH monitor.
That's the way I "visually understand" my alk.

I don't have hard corals therefore I use very little Ca mainly for coralline algae, but need to dose alk everyday! Mg is dosed once in a while also. The 3 work together...

I'm using the BRS buffer and my suggestion to you is to first make sure you're mixing the powder correctly. Then please go to the web site again and do the math to know how much you need to raise the alk.

I started with lower dosages than they recommended and during the course of 2 weeks I could figure out how much would be the average I should set the dosing pump.
Every system is different and the number/different species of hard corals will require different dosages for Ca, alk and Mg.

So you need to figure out what is the exact need of your system. IMO the BRS calculator is a great tool to help us to understand a bit about the dosage. It's great to start dosing too, but you need to learn your system.

When I do my next water change it will make a difference and the stability changes a bit, but the changes aren't THAT significant. The pH is fairly stable and the system is working great.

Hope you can figure out soon and be happy. Please don't think the numbers are going to be so precise forever, although they can be fairly accurate after you get the thing going. They change a bit here and there and that should be ok. The BRS is working great for me.
Just keep trying and have some patience.
Everything will be fine...

Grandis.

[Aww7979]

Hello everyone. I have half of my answers. My Hanna ALK tester is not accurate. I tested my water with a third party and my Red Sea kit is the accurate test.

Also, the supplement I was sold to dose Alk turns out to be kalkwasser. That would explain why it would not completely dissolve. I now have the correct supplement and I'm going to dose accordingly.

So tonight's tests are as follows.

RedSea Alk 6.4
RedSea CA 400
RedSea MG 1200


My target is an ALK of 10. Brs calculator says to dose 8.6 fluid oz. I am going to dose 4 fl oz in one gallon of RODI. I am going to dose it over night. Tomorrow I will test and report. My plan is to dose all 8 oz over two nights, then on the third night dose calcium.

[natas]

If you keep sps coral you need to stretch that's over a few weeks. 6.4dkh to 10 is a big change for sps. I do not keep lps so I am not sure how they would react. However small changes are better than large when it comes to reef tanks.

Also 10dkh is pretty high. If you are running uln style tank be extra cautious

And yes 1-2dkh consumption a day is pretty normal depending on your bioload. I combat this by dosing over time a small amount per hour.

[Dapg8gt]

I still don't understand why you are mixing it with water? That's not the correct way to do it. Use the both supplements full strength not mixed In water dosed over the course of a day.

Dosing cal and alk days apart is going to get you no where You need to dose cal/alk the same day at different times at least a half hour apart. If you wait days to dose one supplement that's going to deplete them both at uneven levels. You want to supplement what's getting consumed equally daily no exceptions unless you overshot your target. That's the whole point of dosing cal/alk. I really think you should do some more research on the topic at hand and learn the basics. I'll see if I can find thread that explains it.

Take the advice above and raise your level slowly not 4 dkh in 2 - 3 days. Also the info about having alk @ 10 with low nitrates and phosphates could lead to issues and coral death or overall health.

It's going to be a never ending battle with your method. Your incorporating kalk(mixed in water) into dosing 2 part.. Only time your mixing water with your supplements is to make the full strength solution that's on the bottle from brs or what randy's recipie States. If your using a pre made solution you dose that full strength not diluted.

Break your doses up daily. Shoot for a half dkh or less raise a day in the calculator plus your consumption and break that into a few doses @ full strength. Same with calcium break it into a few doses a day or one shot for consumption at least a half hour after the dose of alk both into a high flow area.

There's hundreds of threads and videos on YouTube showing how to do it. It needs to be balanced evenly/daily between both supplements not days apart. I'm quite positive your plan will not yield the results you need as its not common practice and it's against the main reason to dose, stability..

I'd recommend getting some dosing pumps so it's automated and you can comfortably spread them out evenly for even greater stability. Or at least dose the standard way. If you want to drip something overnight that's kalk not 2 part.

Good luck and read, read, read.. Anything by sk8tr in the new to the hobby forum is pretty easy to follow along and grasp.. If I way misinterpreted your strategy I apologize but honestly I think your going about it wrong.

[Aww7979]

I still don't understand why you are mixing it with water? That's not the correct way to do it. Use the both supplements full strength not mixed In water dosed over the course of a day.

Dosing cal and alk days apart is going to get you no where You need to dose cal/alk the same day at different times at least a half hour apart. If you want days to dose one supplement that's going to deplete at uneven levels. You want to supplement what's getting consumed equally. That's the whole point of dosing cal/alk. I really think you should do some more research on the topic at hand and learn the basics. I'll see if I can find thread that explains it.

It's going to be a never ending battle with your method. Your incorporating kalk(mixed in water) into dosing 2 part..

Break your doses up daily. Shoot for a half dkh or less raise a day in the calculator plus your consumption and break that into a few doses @ full strength. Same with calcium break it into a few doses a day or one shot for consumption at least a half hour after the dose of alk both into a high flow area.

There's hundreds of threads and videos on YouTube showing how to do it. It needs to be balanced evenly/daily between both supplements not days apart. I'm quite positive your plan will not yield the results you need as its not common practice and it's against the main reason to dose, stability..

I'd recommend getting some dosing pumps so it's automated and you can comfortably spread them out evenly for even greater stability.

I am putting my dosage into water and dripping it over night because I currently do not have a reliable way to dose 1/4 cup of alk solution over an 8 hour period. Plus this is still new to me so I'm trying to dilute my adjustments. I realize that the balance and consistency is of the most importance but until I understand what I do and it's outcome I will never truly understand it.

As far as using kalk, I was told it was brs soda ash and did not know it was really kalk. It was not my intention to use kalk in the way I was. That was part of my problem. I would like to have a better understanding of my chemistry but with tests I could not trust, I was driving blind. I think I have that problem solved.

I have been reading and watching videos about dosing for a year and there are so many recipes, techniques, opinions, and secrets that it's hard to understand how to implement it to my own system. So in my favorite way to understand something, I'm applying cause and effect.

I really do appreciate your advice and I'm trying to find a balance. I will invest in dosing pumps someday but I cannot right now.

[Reefvet]

I am putting my dosage into water and dripping it over night because I currently do not have a reliable way to dose 1/4 cup of alk solution over an 8 hour period. Plus this is still new to me so I'm trying to dilute my adjustments.


You're misunderstanding the methodology here. If you're manually dosing and you need to make a correction that is not advisable all at once, dose less and take time to accomplish the correction. Don't do it by diluting the 2 part.

You're making interpretations that don't make sense. Choose a method and follow it literally.

The Chemistry forum is a better place for this type of thread, FYI.

[Reefvet]

So in my favorite way to understand something, I'm applying cause and effect.


With all due respect, you need to lean the fundamentals. What you're calling 'applying cause and effect' is misplaced here.

[Dapg8gt]

Totally understandable to be cautious. But In my mind being effective is almost as important especially when it comes to tweaking parameters in your reef for the purpose of stability.

Randy's article will point you where you want to go. Calcium is easy it's the alk rise/fall and pH that is usually the issue. Using recipe #2 when your pH is high will give you the alk raise you need with a temporary pH drop.

It's really not that hard once you grasp it I think you may be over thinking it personally. Again hope you get it figured out and good luck =).

And totally agree chemistry forum would be the best.. Or just read some of the other thousand threads pertaining to this subject =).