Dumb lighting question from a reef noob.

[Webmanny]

Hi all,

Ok, this may come as a noob question and trust me, I have done plenty of research to see if there is a way for me to confirm this rather than bother you with this question, but after using light calculator documents found in this forum, buy a light meter on eBay, moving corals around to see where they look and feel their best, I am still left with the ultimate question.

Did I do this right or am I missing something?

I have built plenty of custom LED setups for tanks, my computer desk, work bench, you name it. However, I feel that corals on my tank are not doing as good as they could/should be doing.

My questions are:

Do I Need more light?
Do I have too much light?
Is it that I am missing some colors? (Green, Red, UV?)


Here is my current setup.

For the tank:
36Gal bowfront acrylic tank.

Tank measurements:
30" L X 15" W X 21" H

Inhabitants:

2 Clowns
1 Neon Velvet Damselfish
1 Royal Gramma Basslet
1 Australian Orangetail Damselfish
1 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp
1 Coral Banded Shrimp
A bunch of snails and crabs (Maybe 20 in total)
2 Hammer corals
1 Torch coral
2 feather dusters
2 Anemones
4 or 5 Zoa frags
2 Green Star Polyp (1 frag and 1 large one)
Some Pulsing Xenias



For the light:
I upgraded the factory T5 canopy with the following.


6" x 20" Black Anodized Aluminum Heat Sink (From Rapid LED) Includes fan
42 x 3W White 12000K 14000K HIGH POWER LED 220LM (About 12 of these have 90 degree lens on them)
24 x 3W Royal Blue LED 450-460NM at 48-60LM
12V 20Amps LED Driver



Total output:
198 Watts of combined light.

I have attached a recent picture of the tank with the lights on for your reference.

[kurt_n]

Looks like a healthy tank to me.

I suppose we should start with your comment:

...However, I feel that corals on my tank are not doing as good as they could/should be doing.

I kind of feel like a psychiatrist for asking this, but... why do you feel that way? :)

What exactly are you *not* seeing that you want to be seeing? How long has the tank been set up and how long have the corals been in there? Often times, folks just getting in to the hobby have overly high expectations on coral growth. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with your lighting.

[Webmanny]

Looks like a healthy tank to me.

I suppose we should start with your comment:



I kind of feel like a psychiatrist for asking this, but... why do you feel that way? :)

What exactly are you *not* seeing that you want to be seeing? How long has the tank been set up and how long have the corals been in there? Often times, folks just getting in to the hobby have overly high expectations on coral growth. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with your lighting.


LMAO. Ok fair question and awesome comment.

This is what I am basing my "feeling" on... I have seen my frogspan, hammer and others grow very large and then go down over the past 7 or 8 months that the tank has been running. However, they have yet to split or expanded. I even have Zoas that open during the day and look great, but have yet to grow a single extra polyp.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy nothing has died and looks great every day, but I believe that things should have started to grow by now. My fear is that my light setup is proper for keeping things alive, but not for growing then.

To your questions and some other details that may help.

Parameters:
All perfect according to test kits (I don't have a test for Magnesium or iodine yet) Should I get them?

I target feed Coral Frenzy once a week or so. I have my light on a timer that turns them on at 1:00pm and off at 9:00pm to keep algae blooms.

Also, I started using RO/DI from my LFS a couple of months ago and have not noticed any major difference from the tap water method, but have heard some horror stories and will continue this practice.

I guess I'm just looking for confirmation on my current setup to make sure that I don't need to add or remove anything. I really appreciate your feedback and thank you for jumping in to help.

Thanks,
Webmanny

[madadi]

Looks ok from pics, I don't think its a light issue. Most corals I see in your tank can do well with half the light you give them.

[kurt_n]

...Parameters:
All perfect according to test kits (I don't have a test for Magnesium or iodine yet) Should I get them?

How about some numbers. Not saying it's true in your case, but one person's "perfect parameters" may not be so perfect. I definitely wouldn't get an iodine kit... you aren't dosing it, are you? Magnesium... probably don't need it at this point.

I target feed Coral Frenzy once a week or so. I have my light on a timer that turns them on at 1:00pm and off at 9:00pm to keep algae blooms.

Maybe it's just me, but 8 hours of light seems a little on the low side.

Also, I started using RO/DI from my LFS a couple of months ago and have not noticed any major difference from the tap water method, but have heard some horror stories and will continue this practice.

Tap water may, or may not be good. It all depends on your local water, but the main problem with it is consistancy. Have you tested the TDS of the RO/DI water you're getting at the LFS? Unmaintained RO/DI systems can actually generate output that is dirtier than the input, so you might just want to do some quick water tests on the RO/DI water before you add the salt mix to it.

I guess I'm just looking for confirmation on my current setup to make sure that I don't need to add or remove anything. I really appreciate your feedback and thank you for jumping in to help.

As mentioned earlier, I agree that with what you've got for corals your lighting intensity should be fine. Probably even more than fine.

For my tank, I've found it can take several months before a coral really seems to "settle in." Even the process of moving things around can often reset the clock and tick them off. This is a hobby of years, not months.

[pscott99]

Your tank is quite beautifull for it's size. You don't mention a sump. My zoas gradually disappeared in my first tank. From what I have read they like dirtier water. I wouldn't judge your coral growth from one type of coral.

[alton]

I take care of our local clubs PAR meter and always ask how a members result where when they bring the meter back. A couple of members who DIY led kits where not happy. One said they the levels where not as high as they thought even though there tank looked nice. The other said he could not figure why some of his corals where doing great and others where barely making it. By using the meter he found out real quickly that the lighting levels where the corals where doing great where good, where corals where not so good neither was the lighting level. Some where as close as a couple inches away. As many learn just because your tank looks good, your eyes lie, but meters don't. And for most who have new LED fixtures turn them down after using the meter.

[Webmanny]

Kurt_n,

I really appreciate your feedback and suggestions. As far as the parameters, I will take a new sample tomorrow and post it here. I will also find a iodine test kit soon to make sure that is OK too.

As far as the RO/DI water from the LFS, I have not measured it before putting it into the tank, I will do so this weekend.

I will post some pictures of my actual LED light tomorrow for everyone to see, but I feel much better after seeing some of your feedback on the intensity and color setup.

I will apply more patience and see what the next few month bring.

[Webmanny]

Your tank is quite beautifull for it's size. You don't mention a sump. My zoas gradually disappeared in my first tank. From what I have read they like dirtier water. I wouldn't judge your coral growth from one type of coral.

Thank you pscott99,

Sorry I missed the filtration on my original post. I don't have a sump. I thought about it, but decided against it due to space. I currently run a canister filter rated for a 150 gallons and it keeps my water very clean.

On the canister I have a tray with three mechanical filters(coarse to fine).
The second has ceramic media and bioballs. The last tray has my Chemi-pure, carbon, Phosban and Purigen.

I really appreciate the feedback and for sharing your experience.

[Webmanny]

I take care of our local clubs PAR meter and always ask how a members result where when they bring the meter back. A couple of members who DIY led kits where not happy. One said they the levels where not as high as they thought even though there tank looked nice. The other said he could not figure why some of his corals where doing great and others where barely making it. By using the meter he found out real quickly that the lighting levels where the corals where doing great where good, where corals where not so good neither was the lighting level. Some where as close as a couple inches away. As many learn just because your tank looks good, your eyes lie, but meters don't. And for most who have new LED fixtures turn them down after using the meter.


Alton,

I agree with your methods and that was my logic when I purchased the light meter. The issue comes with the fact that I don't know how to use it very well and I can't figure out how to measure the light at the bottom of the tank correctly.

Do you have any pointers you can offer as to how to properly measure my light output?

I bought a meter that goes to 200k LUX, thinking that anything smaller would not be enough.

[Webmanny]

Looks ok from pics, I don't think its a light issue. Most corals I see in your tank can do well with half the light you give them.

Thank you. I really appreciate your feedback. This makes me feel much better.

[alton]

Lux or foot candle meters only tell you how intense the light is, not how good the light is. My Marineland reef capable was a perfect example. It had over 4000 foot candles, but only a PAR reading of 200. With a PAR meter the sensor is water proof and can be attached to something and submerged under water at different locations to get your readings.

[Webmanny]

Lux or foot candle meters only tell you how intense the light is, not how good the light is. My Marineland reef capable was a perfect example. It had over 4000 foot candles, but only a PAR reading of 200. With a PAR meter the sensor is water proof and can be attached to something and submerged under water at different locations to get your readings.

That makes perfect sense. I will have to borrow one from the club during our next meeting to measure my setup. I really appreciate it. I did not know they were two different meters.

By the way, as promised here are some pictures of my current DIY LED light. Maybe this will also help some identify if there is a potential issue or at the very least give them some ideas for building their own.

Thank you all for your very valuable feedback.

[kurt_n]

What % are you running those LEDs? If you're running at 100%, I'd say that's a problem. As Alton mentioned, your eyes can play tricks on you when it comes to brightness. If you're running at 100%, I'd say you have too much light. A short story...

I ran 2x 96W PC bulbs over a 36" wide tank for 7 years. No issues, great growth, really happy LPS and a few SPS up high in the tank. I changed bulbs every 6 months to keep everything happy. I wanted to switch to LEDs because I was tired of shelling out $100 for bulbs every 6 months, and I wanted to reduce the heat in the corner of the house where the tank was. But I was concerned about frying my corals that are quite happy under *just* PC lighting.

I bought a PAR meter to measure the amount of light hitting various areas/corals under my PC lights. I then bought two 36" BuildMyLed XB fixtures (12,000K and Actinic) that are only 48W each. So I've got a total installed power of 96W of LED (versus your 198W). I put those in place of the old Coralife PC fixture and then adjusted the two BuildMyLED fixtures until I got the coloration I wanted, AND duplicated the PAR numbers that I had under the PC lights.

Long story short, I have about 20% higher PAR readings everywhere versus the PC bulbs and I'm running the 12,000K at 75% and the Actinic at 30%. And that's accounting for the slight error in the Apogee readings when they're under LED lights.

So with no further info, I'd tend to go with a "too much light" issue now after seeing that fixture. Even more so if the fixture is just sitting on top of the tank, as it appears. But again... very nice looking tank as it is!

You mentioned you'd get a iodine kit. Are you dosing iodine? If you are, stop. That could be an issue. I've talked with several people that dose iodine because that's what their LFS told them to do, or that's what a few books out there imply you need to do. But iodine is sneaky in that it slowly creeps up on you if you're dosing. Everything will be fine until a limit is reached and then things will go downhill fast. You do *not* need it for shrimps or crabs, as is often mentioned. Normal water changes with any decent salt mix will give you all the iodine you need.

[outssider]

you are running almost twice as many white led's as blue. If you do some research you will find that most fixtures and diy people are running 2 times the blues to whites and also adding other colors besides just one blue and two whites.....like violet and at least two different blues. Also the current technology is having dimmers on each channel so you can fine tune the par meter and the color spectrum of the tank.

[Webmanny]

Thank you Kurt_n,

I really appreciate your example. I am running these lights at 100% since it is a DIY kit I put together without any knowledge of what to go for. I will order some dimmer module that can handle several channels and try to incorporate it into my setup.

Also, I apologize for my confusion on the iodine kit. I misread your previous post. I am not dosing anything at the time to my tank. I only do weekly water changes and that keeps my numbers looking OK.

This had been a great post for me and an incredible learning experience. I really appreciate all your help.

[Webmanny]

you are running almost twice as many white led's as blue. If you do some research you will find that most fixtures and diy people are running 2 times the blues to whites and also adding other colors besides just one blue and two whites.....like violet and at least two different blues. Also the current technology is having dimmers on each channel so you can fine tune the par meter and the color spectrum of the tank.

After reading your post, I started looking up some grow lights and she with your suggestion. I need to get a nice dimmer module and some different color LED lights. I have seen some setups with added red, blue, green and purple. I will keep you guys posted on my changes.

If anyone has any ideas on the dimmer module that can save me some time, please feel free to send them my way.