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View Full Version : NPS setups and biopellets/carbon dosing


noy
06/04/2014, 07:27 PM
I'm interested to see what other people's experience with carbon dosing have been for those that do it in a NPS setup. If you could outline what type of carbon dosing (biopellets/vinegar/vodka etc...) and what else you have in terms of filtration NO3/PO4 export and how long you have been running it. I am especially interested in those have gorgonian dominated setups.

I have used biopellets previously (vertex biopellets running in a TLF reactor). While it was very effective in reduction of nitrates and phosphates it also promoted cyano growth. I never had any sort of bacteria bloom otherwise (cloudy white buildup).

As anyone will know gorgonians are magnets for cyano. I had to blow the cyano off on a daily basis and when I went on vacation I lost 2 (very) prized diodogorgia's because the cyano had grown over the tissue there was substantial tissue lost from which I could not recover. That was the end of using biopellets or any carbon dosing for me.

I am asking because I have a new 60 gallon gorgonian tank and my current strategy is to use GFO to keep the phosphates down to combat algae growth. If there is a way I can carbon dose without worry about cyano I would be very interested. Because of the amount of nutrients introduced to the tank - I have to change out GFO on a weekly basis - something I would like to avoid.

Nemato
06/05/2014, 12:31 AM
I'm interested to see what other people's experience with carbon dosing have been for those that do it in a NPS setup. If you could outline what type of carbon dosing (biopellets/vinegar/vodka etc...) and what else you have in terms of filtration NO3/PO4 export and how long you have been running it. I am especially interested in those have gorgonian dominated setups.

I have used biopellets previously (vertex biopellets running in a TLF reactor). While it was very effective in reduction of nitrates and phosphates it also promoted cyano growth. I never had any sort of bacteria bloom otherwise (cloudy white buildup).

As anyone will know gorgonians are magnets for cyano. I had to blow the cyano off on a daily basis and when I went on vacation I lost 2 (very) prized diodogorgia's because the cyano had grown over the tissue there was substantial tissue lost from which I could not recover. That was the end of using biopellets or any carbon dosing for me.

I am asking because I have a new 60 gallon gorgonian tank and my current strategy is to use GFO to keep the phosphates down to combat algae growth. If there is a way I can carbon dose without worry about cyano I would be very interested. Because of the amount of nutrients introduced to the tank - I have to change out GFO on a weekly basis - something I would like to avoid.

Hey Noy,

I use biopellets for about seven months now. The problem with carbon dources is that althought bacteria reduce PO4, they do it in small quantities specially compared with the nitrate.

Cyano can appear caused from a disbalance nit/phos. Nitrate normally is higher than phospates (sometimes if you're not highly reducing all nutrients for colour-up acros etc they could be perfectly 5-15 times higher or more).

In my experience biopellets are the most effective ( have tried the other sources before) followed by carbon. But they run off nitrates in the speed of light hehehe. In a pair of months I had nitrates in near 0 and phosphates in 2. So, some ciano appeared not as much in the gorgs but in my tiger sponge.

Using GFO (changing every 2/3 weeks) and shyponing all places of the tank including under rockwork, now I only do a simple syphonate once a week and my levels are near 0 and a bit below 1 now, and cyano is loosing strenght and leaving.

So the strategy is not to think bacteria will reduce all, because they will misbalance nutrients. And try to find something like gfo or take off detritus etc that reduces phosphates at the same time.

Regards

SantaMonica
06/06/2014, 08:37 PM
Well at least by stopping dosing, you can also stop skimming, and thus keep a boat load more food particles in the water.

Trichome
06/09/2014, 10:30 AM
I am about to try out these new All-In-One Biopellets.

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=NP-RI-ALLINONE-1000&Category_Code=

Previously, Reef Interests was the first to develop and present the NP reducing BioPellets which are mostly removing Nitrogen waste products and along with a smaller amount of Phosphates. As competitors came on the seen, DVH has been hard at work developing a new and better product called All-In-One BioPellets.

After 4 years of development and research we are very pleased to be able to present the Reef Interests All-In-One Biopellets (Patent Pending), which can be used to more efficiently remove both Nitrogen (5x) as well as Phosphates (10x-20x) without the need of using separate phosphate removing substrates. Now for the 1st time there is no need to have to purchase expensive GFO media for PO4 reduction and Biopellets for Nitrate reduction. With this All-In-One simple to use product, All-In-One BioPellets will do it all at an affordable cost with no need for 2 seperate reactors for GFO and Biopellets.

The positive effects of NP-reducing BioPellets on water quality are based on the principle of immobilization. Waste products from the water, mainly nitrate and phosphate, are converted into bacteria. This process keeps the aquarium water clean. The new formula All-In-One Biopellets are composed of highly purified compounds, to ensure the safe use of our products in marine tanks occupied by sensitive and precious animals such as corals, invertebrates, fish etc…

The pellets will allow aerobic growth of bacteria which consequently will consume nitrate and phosphate simultaneously. The bacteria will use up the carbon from the All-In-One Biopellets, whilst nitrogen and phosphorus are taken from the water as nitrate and (ortho)phosphate. This conversion of organic BioPellets (together with inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus) into microbial biomass is called immobilization. In contrast to our “old” Biopellets, we have observed that the All-In-One Biopellets work best with very high water flow.

Nemato
06/09/2014, 02:06 PM
I am about to try out these new All-In-One Biopellets.

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=NP-RI-ALLINONE-1000&Category_Code=

Previously, Reef Interests was the first to develop and present the NP reducing BioPellets which are mostly removing Nitrogen waste products and along with a smaller amount of Phosphates. As competitors came on the seen, DVH has been hard at work developing a new and better product called All-In-One BioPellets.

After 4 years of development and research we are very pleased to be able to present the Reef Interests All-In-One Biopellets (Patent Pending), which can be used to more efficiently remove both Nitrogen (5x) as well as Phosphates (10x-20x) without the need of using separate phosphate removing substrates. Now for the 1st time there is no need to have to purchase expensive GFO media for PO4 reduction and Biopellets for Nitrate reduction. With this All-In-One simple to use product, All-In-One BioPellets will do it all at an affordable cost with no need for 2 seperate reactors for GFO and Biopellets.

The positive effects of NP-reducing BioPellets on water quality are based on the principle of immobilization. Waste products from the water, mainly nitrate and phosphate, are converted into bacteria. This process keeps the aquarium water clean. The new formula All-In-One Biopellets are composed of highly purified compounds, to ensure the safe use of our products in marine tanks occupied by sensitive and precious animals such as corals, invertebrates, fish etc…

The pellets will allow aerobic growth of bacteria which consequently will consume nitrate and phosphate simultaneously. The bacteria will use up the carbon from the All-In-One Biopellets, whilst nitrogen and phosphorus are taken from the water as nitrate and (ortho)phosphate. This conversion of organic BioPellets (together with inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus) into microbial biomass is called immobilization. In contrast to our “old” Biopellets, we have observed that the All-In-One Biopellets work best with very high water flow.
Very interesting, man... Very interesting...
If that works as fine it's good news for very charged NPS tanks :D

SantaMonica
06/09/2014, 07:35 PM
Sounds like regular carbon dosing.

noy
06/09/2014, 11:03 PM
Hey Noy,

I use biopellets for about seven months now. The problem with carbon dources is that althought bacteria reduce PO4, they do it in small quantities specially compared with the nitrate.

Cyano can appear caused from a disbalance nit/phos. Nitrate normally is higher than phospates (sometimes if you're not highly reducing all nutrients for colour-up acros etc they could be perfectly 5-15 times higher or more).

In my experience biopellets are the most effective ( have tried the other sources before) followed by carbon. But they run off nitrates in the speed of light hehehe. In a pair of months I had nitrates in near 0 and phosphates in 2. So, some ciano appeared not as much in the gorgs but in my tiger sponge.

Using GFO (changing every 2/3 weeks) and shyponing all places of the tank including under rockwork, now I only do a simple syphonate once a week and my levels are near 0 and a bit below 1 now, and cyano is loosing strenght and leaving.

So the strategy is not to think bacteria will reduce all, because they will misbalance nutrients. And try to find something like gfo or take off detritus etc that reduces phosphates at the same time.

Regards

I have a different experience with biopellets. I don't have issues with it reducing PO4 - my only issue is cyano (maybe my levels were lower to start with - 0.1 generally - 0.4 at its highest). From what I read its not a disturbance between NO3/PO4 that causes the cyano but instead is the fact that the carbon source feeds cyano bacteria (as well as anaerobic bacteria). Randy Holmes-Farley had a recent thread about the polymers used in biopellets breaking down into monomers and feeding cyano bacteria.

Trichome - Not too sure about the suggestion of feeding aerobic bacteria which reduces NO3/PO4 - I had always thought it was only anaerobic bacteria that did this function. Nonetheless, I would sure like to know if anyone is using this stuff and whether it has any impact on cyano.

On my 60 gallon gorg tank, I have no cyano growth and would like to keep it that way. I have a refugium, a crummy ATS (still starting up), purigen and GFO which is getting consumed like crazy (weekly changes) to keep PO4 down. I'm wary about carbon dosing which is why I'm asking about other's experiences.

SantaMonica
06/11/2014, 08:34 PM
Yes you can see the common effect of food particles settling on the sand and causing cyano there with the added carbon they bring; thus the recommendation of "add flow", which kicks up the particles away from the sand.