What happens if u get crypto in dt even after quarintine?

[mandarinfanatic]

I had my importer quarintine my fish for a month in his coral holding tanks. He got all the fish eating mysis which i believe was my saving grace. After i acclimatised and introduced the two yellow tangs , potters,flame and royal gramma. Spots started appearing. I started the following treatment and the spots were playing musical chairs on the fish. With one or two fish at a time having spots and the spots would dissappear for a day or half a day and appear on other fish! It was as frustrating as anything! I got a recommendation from a friend which seems to be working at the moment but i dont want to assume all crypto is gone after three weeks of treatment although all spots have been gone for a week already.TREATMENT; longer lighting period as less chance of infe tion while fish is awake and moving. Feed fish five times a day if possible for first week. Three times a day after that.Basic idea: drained defrosted frozen mysis soaked iN Seachem metroNIDAZOLE?..... plus seachem focus ,plus seachem kannaplex,seachem vitality and unchopped cloves of garlic to flavour the mix. I MARINATED the mysis(whole pack) in this mix for an hour before i started using it!. I didnt refreeze it i just kept it in the fridge( hoping it increased in strength as mix lasted a week before new batch made) Why am i discussing this? What happens if you do all the preventatives and still have spots appear on fish in dt?ps the garlic doesnt get fed to the fish. I hope the spots will stay away but i will still treat until this weeks food mix finished.

[ca1ore]

Fish importers, wholesalers, or LFS are not equipped to properly quarrantine fish - as you have discovered. Although I do believe ich can be managed with a healthy fish population, this requires a rather practiced hand - and the parasite is then never gone so introducing any new fish is a risk.

[mandarinfanatic]

Fish importers, wholesalers, or LFS are not equipped to properly quarrantine fish - as you have discovered. Although I do believe ich can be managed with a healthy fish population, this requires a rather practiced hand - and the parasite is then never gone so introducing any new fish is a risk.
proper quarintine is separate everything per fish for three month period isnt it? i am just thankful at this stage that i seem to have it under control at the moment

[ca1ore]

proper quarintine is separate everything per fish for three month period isnt it? i am just thankful at this stage that i seem to have it under control at the moment

Proper QT is to isolate fish in a comfortable environment and ensure no cross contamination whatsoever for at least 6 weeks, with 12 being better. No mass facility is able to reliably do this, nor would I trust them to.

[mbingha]

Another vital point of qt is to observe and treat fish. Aside from the constant addition of coral etc in that tank, it is impossible to treat and impractical for them to observe.

[mbingha]

By the way, you aren't treating your fish by altering their diet. They may be healthier with the added nutrition, and this do not show symptoms, but I assure you, they still have ich. On another note, garlic is actually bad for fish long term as it is bad for the liver.

[mandarinfanatic]

By the way, you aren't treating your fish by altering their diet. They may be healthier with the added nutrition, and this do not show symptoms, but I assure you, they still have ich. On another note, garlic is actually bad for fish long term as it is bad for the liver.
treating with medicated food containing seachem metrodianazole(sic).kannaplex and focus over a period of four weeks you kill the crypto. Soak food. Mysis in my case with large split cloves of garlic and vitamins and the three meds mentioned above. Garlic gives flavour but not side effect to hide bitterness of meds.

[mandarinfanatic]

Ps the seachem stuff is genuine medication not conditioning food.

[Allmost]

treating with medicated food containing seachem metrodianazole(sic).kannaplex and focus over a period of four weeks you kill the crypto. Soak food. Mysis in my case with large split cloves of garlic and vitamins and the three meds mentioned above. Garlic gives flavour but not side effect to hide bitterness of meds.

this is very very bad advice.

metro is for internal worms.

kannaplex is for bacteria infections and fin rot.

focus is also for internal parasites.

none of the above will do a thing for ich/crypto.

Garlic is also bad for the fish.

to treat Crypto, you can use TT, Copper, hypo salinity.

[mandarinfanatic]

this is very very bad advice.

metro is for internal worms.

kannaplex is for bacteria infections and fin rot.

focus is also for internal parasites.

none of the above will do a thing for ich/crypto.

Garlic is also bad for the fish.

to treat Crypto, you can use TT, Copper, hypo salinity.

Metronidazole

Product Description

Metronidazole™ is an effective and safe treatment for several protozoan and anaerobic bacterial diseases of fish (Cryptocaryon, Hexamita, Ichthyophthirius). It does not adversely affect the filter bed and is easily removed with carbon. There is little danger of overdosing. Usual dose is 125 mg/10 gallons.

Sizes: 5 g, 100 g

this from seachem homepage says you are wrong.

[mandarinfanatic]

If you read further on their web page they tell you how to administer it via food

[mbingha]

Guess since you know everything, you can answer your own question :-)

[zeebies]

Keep it simple. Leave your DT fallow for 10-12 weeks and treat all fish with Tank Transfer. It works. No guessing, no sleepless nights, no chemicals.

Always do your own quarantining.

You can't "hope" ich away.

Good luck.

[mandarinfanatic]

From seachem website:

Re: Seachem’s Metronidazole, Focus & Garlic Guard used to treat Marine Ich?



Mixing Metronidazole, Focus, and Garlic Guard together with food is a good way to get medication to fish in a system where you can't dose the medication directly into the water. It is sometimes effective against marine ich, but there are many strains of the disease and there is much variability in how susceptible each strain is to different medications. How effective it is will depend upon the health of your fish going into the treatment and what strain you are fighting.

To prepare the food, take about 1 tablespoon of food, either thawed frozen food or dry food, and add one scoop of Metronidazole and 1-2 scoops of Focus, then add enough Garlic Guard to moisten the food and mix well. Feed as much as your fish will consume in a few minutes. I would avoid directly feeding any corals or inverts to be safe, but normally most reef inhabitants don't suffer from exposure to Metronidazole. Because the food is getting to the fish via their food, you don't need to change any thing with your filtration.

Ideally, when treating ich you would keep the treatment going long enough to kill off all of the life stages (3-6 weeks), but this only works when dosing the system. Since this treatment only helps kill the parasites which have attached to the fish, treatment should last until the fish quit displaying symptoms (white spots, labored breathing, flashing, etc.).

[Allmost]

first rule of reef keeping, is to question and not trust anything u read [including mine]

metro, will not have any effect on ICH.

in this hobby, we see even copper based medications advertising to be reef safe. yet we have thread on here weekly with ppl dosing it and killing all their corals.
alot of magic portions as well, claiming to fix all Issues.

with that said, metro is a great med for de-worming fishes. I use it on every fish I get.

Prazi pro for external parasites.

there is a product that API makes, called general cure, which is a mix of metro and PP.

please do more research on this, and it will be evident to you that metro will not deal with ich. TT, cupramine, hypo.

[mandarinfanatic]

Guess since you know everything, you can answer your own question :-)
please make sure of your facts. you were giving wrong advice. i was looking for other options.

[mandarinfanatic]

Keep it simple. Leave your DT fallow for 10-12 weeks and treat all fish with Tank Transfer. It works. No guessing, no sleepless nights, no chemicals.

Always do your own quarantining.

You can't "hope" ich away.

Good luck.
thanks for advice

[mbingha]

What do you know... A company that wants to sell you their products... If they say their product works, well I guess it has to... By the way, I have some great swamp land in Florida if your interested.

[Allmost]

Mandarin ...

please read this with regards to use of garlic.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2352039&highlight=garlic

there are alot of "anecdotal" info in this hobby about ich.
if you search on here, you see many ppl claiming that "garlic" or "ginger" or "magic potion" killed off ICH, every time it showed up :)

the point is, if the ich was gone, it wont show up again :)

if you read the sticky about life cycle of ich, it wil explain their observations ... as ich will leave the fish, fall on sand bed, multiply and come back .... thats its life cycle and how it reproduces and transmitted.

you should check the sticky threads on fish disease forum for sure. alot of good info.

[mbingha]

please make sure of your facts. you were giving wrong advice. i was looking for other options.

Really? I think you will find that you are the one with wrong advice. Cold hard fact: the only proven methods of irradiating ich to date are TT, copper, or hypo.

[mandarinfanatic]

What do you know... A company that wants to sell you their products... If they say their product works, well I guess it has to... By the way, I have some great swamp land in Florida if your interested.
the initial advice i got to do this was from a friend. i dont know where you are getting info from or why you are being so agressive

[Allmost]

lets calm down guys :)

we are all here to help each other with our addiction.

[mbingha]

I'm not being aggressive. You are just spouting incorrect advice and when another newbie reads it and takes it as gospel we have to go through this all over again.

[mandarinfanatic]

Show me research that metrodianzole does not get rid of crypto and i will look at it. Strange how seachem says it will work and it did. Gee maybe they are telling the truth

[Allmost]

Show me research that metrodianzole does not get rid of crypto and i will look at it. Strange how seachem says it will work and it did. Gee maybe they are telling the truth

:)

thats fine. and congrats.

see you in 3-5 weeks when ich returns stronger than before.

have a good weekend.

[mandarinfanatic]

I must point out that if the fish are feeding and are taking in the medicated food it works or seems to be time will tell.

[mandarinfanatic]

:)

thats fine. and congrats.

see you in 3-5 weeks when ich returns stronger than before.

have a good weekend.
well i hope it doesnt but lets see how it goes.

[Allmost]

I must point out that if the fish are feeding and are taking in the medicated food it works or seems to be time will tell.

if you had an infection and ate steak with advil on it, will the infection go away ?

answer is no, advil will not help with the infection.



anyways, it seems like you are not here to learn ... so why argue with others that have been doing this for over 20 years ?

enjoy your weekend and fish while its alive :)

[mandarinfanatic]

You are most kind why argue with someone who has been doing this for 36 years.

[Allmost]

You are most kind why argue with someone who has been doing this for 36 years.

lol

okay there :) your first post shows your extensive experience with these animals :)

[mbingha]

lol

okay there :) your first post shows your extensive experience with these animals :)

Lol love the passive aggressive response :D

[ca1ore]

Show me research that metrodianzole does not get rid of crypto and i will look at it. Strange how seachem says it will work and it did. Gee maybe they are telling the truth

Assuming what you quoted earlier was accurate, even Seachem states that 'It is sometimes effective against marine ich, but there are many strains of the disease and there is much variability in how susceptible each strain is to different medications. How effective it is will depend upon the health of your fish going into the treatment and what strain you are fighting'. I can speak from multiple, direct experience that different ich infestations behave differently. I have a mild one in my tank currently and I am able to manage it by keeping my fish healthy and well fed; but, I have had aggressive strains before and there is nothing to be done but remove all the fish and go fallow for 12 weeks.

Also, if you take the time to read the stickies on ich in the disease forum, you will see that overt symptoms come and go, and that fish can appear to be 'cured' only to have the spots return even worse a few days to a week later. In my tank, for example, my fish can be spot free for a few weeks, but then a couple of them show a few for a few days. I don't have an outbreak, but ich clearly persists in my tank.

Every reefer has their own pet theories about things - and those of us who have been doing it for a very long time are often the worse offenders. Take your friend's advice, follow the approach you have outlined, but do not be surprised if it proves ultimately to be ineffective. I personally have found medicated foods to not work. The only 100% effective approach is as has been noted by others - go fallow for 12 weeks and treat the fish in a HT either with copper, hypo, TT or CP.

[degibson84]

This thread was a fun read. Thank you all for the laughs tonight.


I agree the seachem stuff is not going to cure ich. My step father had 1st hand experience with it. Bought a naso and the fish had ich. Tried the seachem stuff with the food and still the ich spread to all the fish and he lost all of them.

[billsreef]

Look up the pharmacology on Metrondiazole, aka Flagyl. It's primarily effective against anaerobic bacteria and protozoans, not aerobic. With Cryptocaryon being an aerobic protozoan, there is little reason to think Metrondiazole would be a particularly effective treatment. There have been several companies that marked Metrondiazole and related antibiotics as cures for ich/Crypt, none have had success rates much better than simply feeding well and keeping water quality good.

[mandarinfanatic]

Look up the pharmacology on Metrondiazole, aka Flagyl. It's primarily effective against anaerobic bacteria and protozoans, not aerobic. With Cryptocaryon being an aerobic protozoan, there is little reason to think Metrondiazole would be a particularly effective treatment. There have been several companies that marked Metrondiazole and related antibiotics as cures for ich/Crypt, none have had success rates much better than simply feeding well and keeping water quality good.
that is a point to consider! because although i am feeding meds the fish are all eating well and water conditions are good.

[mandarinfanatic]

Trying to find research on this is hectic. I find some info where it says metrondiazole treats anaerobic bacteria and some protozoa incl crypto. Others where it does not. I wish there was documented research by others than manufacturers

[mandarinfanatic]

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquarium_ich.html seems to be the best article and covers all bases. It says metro is effective in mild infedtations but not heavy infestations.the guy has a lot of products analysed

[vette.tech]

Is this a troll post? I mean some of the most knowledgable and experienced guys on the forum posted in this thread yet you persist, did you read the stickies on ich yet I bet not

[snorvich]

this is very very bad advice.

metro is for internal worms.

kannaplex is for bacteria infections and fin rot.

focus is also for internal parasites.

none of the above will do a thing for ich/crypto.

Garlic is also bad for the fish.

to treat Crypto, you can use TT, Copper, hypo salinity.

This.

[billsreef]

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquarium_ich.html seems to be the best article and covers all bases. It says metro is effective in mild infedtations but not heavy infestations.the guy has a lot of products analysed

While some of his info is good, he also as a number of "myths" such as stating FW dips are effective for Crypto. When it comes "treatments" that claimed "effective in mild infestations but not heavy infestations.", one needs to wonder if something else was the reason for apparent success. As for his "produce analysis, it's all from the manufacturers...

Crypt and treatments are actually very well scientifically studied due to it's importance to aquaculture. For fish diseases and treatments, the best single source of information is Dr. Noga's "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment". Lots of excellent information on fish disease, treatment, and an excellent Pharmacopeia section. Also it's complete with proper citations and references that can be looked up by anyone wanted to delve into something deeper. While it's a bit pricey, it's a great book for anyone serious about disease treatment, and IMO a must have for the professional fish keeper.

[mandarinfanatic]

While some of his info is good, he also as a number of "myths" such as stating FW dips are effective for Crypto. When it comes "treatments" that claimed "effective in mild infestations but not heavy infestations.", one needs to wonder if something else was the reason for apparent success. As for his "produce analysis, it's all from the manufacturers...

Crypt and treatments are actually very well scientifically studied due to it's importance to aquaculture. For fish diseases and treatments, the best single source of information is Dr. Noga's "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment". Lots of excellent information on fish disease, treatment, and an excellent Pharmacopeia section. Also it's complete with proper citations and references that can be looked up by anyone wanted to delve into something deeper. While it's a bit pricey, it's a great book for anyone serious about disease treatment, and IMO a must have for the professional fish keeper.
man how does one sift through all the biased junk on the net?
thanks for the info.

[snorvich]

man how does one sift through all the biased junk on the net?
thanks for the info.

Well our fish diseases forum has some very knowledgeable folks who have had loads of experience and do not sell any products, hence having no conflict of interests. You might try that forum.

[billsreef]

man how does one sift through all the biased junk on the net?
thanks for the info.

It's not always easy :( However, as snorvich mentions, the disease forum here is a good start. Some good sticky's to get you started with. Also take a look at who's doing the writing, if they are selling something they just might be biased ;) Also after awhile on a forum, you tend to get a feel for who knows what they are talking about and who's talking out their .... ;)

[mandarinfanatic]

It's not always easy :( However, as snorvich mentions, the disease forum here is a good start. Some good sticky's to get you started with. Also take a look at who's doing the writing, if they are selling something they just might be biased ;) Also after awhile on a forum, you tend to get a feel for who knows what they are talking about and who's talking out their .... ;)
sometimes i think we are lucky and dont have a disaster and then we think it is a product that works.

[mandarinfanatic]

Well after a period of time the crypto came back with a vengeance so my apologies for being a pain. I lost most of the fish. lesson learned. Unfortunately the fish paid the price

[2_zoa]

Sorry to hear about your fish. It's a real bummer to loose any of our pets.

Thank you for being honest and admitting the fish weren't cured or treated. Says a lot. A hard lesson but a lesson learned none the less. Keep on reefing.


Stay dry and the best of luck to you in the future.:beer:

[mandarinfanatic]

Sorry to hear about your fish. It's a real bummer to loose any of our pets.

Thank you for being honest and admitting the fish weren't cured or treated. Says a lot. A hard lesson but a lesson learned none the less. Keep on reefing.


Stay dry and the best of luck to you in the future.:beer:
Do better as we know better