Cyanide treatments and alternative options

[Blue Ring Sting]

Hi everyone,

This has been bugging me since I had to see what horrible condition my Venustus Angel arrived in. Now we all know the majority of collectors in the Philippines are using cyanide to catch fish, I have heard of the practice being used by certain suppliers in Indonesia and possibly the CXI (cant confirm 100%). Now this is a worldwide problem and the more stores that support these suppliers will keep this practice going.

I would like to look into this matter and find out what treatments work and what doesn't and also what combinations can be used to get the fish back to good health. I have been doing a lot of research and the things that come up at the top of the list for cyanide poisoning treatment is:

* Methylene Blue
* Nitrite administration followed by sodium thiosulfate

Basically, cyanide reduces the oxygen carrying capacity of blood from the respiratory organs to tissues and the rest of the body. From my understanding the objective here is to increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood before the tissues of essential organs are damaged.

I have setup 2 60cm tanks now especially for this project, I will be purchasing some fish that are known to be collected with cyanide, for example the Venustus Angelfish. I will be applying the above methods to see how well they work and also be experimenting with other medications to see what can help these guys pull through.

However, this is the end problem.

I have been doing research on alternative collection methods and especially on natural fish anesthetics, I have found that clove oil seems to be a winner. I have 5 small plastics bins that I will be using to conduct this research. I have purchased a few domino damsels and green chromis, who will be used to see what effects clove oil has on saltwater fish in the long run.

I will hopefully be able to provide accurate readings over the next few weeks regarding how long does it take for them to become sedated? what are the long term affects of clove oil? what sort of dosage is needed to sedate the fish safely? What sort of affect will clove oil have on corals?

It may not be ideal but it would be a much better alternative than using cyanide if it proves to be safe.

Any input would be gladly appreciated.

[cmcoker]

how do you plan to keep the clove oil emulsified in the water? this oil can also kill the fish

[Blue Ring Sting]

One of two ways are known to work, mixing it in with hot water and the other is ethanol. I will need to do more research on what other options are available.

[Betta132]

I don't know about dosage, but clove oil works as both an anesethetic and a way to humanely euthanize fish.
You shake it up in a smallish bottle of warm water to mix it, then add the bottle of water to the tank. They should display lethargy in five minutes or less, although I don't know how long it will take to anesthetize one... Ten minutes at the most to euthanize something small, although it's best to take it slowly -add a drop or two at a time- so as not to startle the fish with the changes in water chemestry. I took it fairly quickly because when I was using it, it was on some fish who were suffering.
I don't think clove oil and corals would mix well. It would probably make them unhappy, and it might kill them.
Normally I'd get a bit ticked at someone experimenting on live fish in a way that might kill them, but given that it would be a painless death and might help to save others, I have no problems with it.

You may find a debate as to whether clove oil is a humane method of euthanizing something, but I can say that it definitely appears to be so. If you have a fish that's just too far gone, like that angel... You may want to use it. Five drops per gallon should work... Increase dosage beyond that once it's laying on its side. You can leave it in a heavy concentration for a while to make sure it's dead, or you can do something like crush the head to make sure... I just leave them in the clove oil overnight.

[Blue Ring Sting]

I have watched a number of clips on youtube with regards to the euthanizing of fish but its usually been goldfish or other freshwater fish. That's what I plan to find out, what amount of dosage is required to sedate a fish, just sedate and what level would actually euthanize them. I want to try and get readings that are as accurate as possible. I have some frags available some of SPS, LPS and softies, I would like to see what affect the clove oil will have on the corals.

I thought it may be a bit of a touchy subject because live fish are being used for this experiment but if it could work and safely, it could be promoted as a safer option but we are a long way from knowing that.

The fish seem extremely calm in the clips that I have watched, no quick movements or panic or any noticeable stress which are good factors. I would like it to be as natural as possible should I need to ever euthanize one of my fish.