Order of things in my new tank

[Borky00]

Hello all I am a several year fresh water multiple tank owner but new to saltwater.

I just (1 week ago) purchased a 55G tank, with cured live rock and about 40 Gallons of water that was already cycled. I have read lots but some stuff is old and other things are inconsistent and that is causing confusion.

Right now the tank is full, I topped it off with well water and the salinity is in acceptable range. I put some clean sand in the bottom, just a dusting (about 1/4 inch) because I like the white bottom sandy look. I have more to add if that is a bad idea.

I have a canister filter running with charcoal circulating the water with a power head on order.

I have loads of question and have loads to keep reading but for now I am wondering:

1) Can I turn on the T5 light since I don't have any fish or invertebrate? ( I read it should only be on for 10-12 hours)
2) Can or should I buy some snails, crabs and or shrimp to help keep the algae down?
3) Can or should I buy a fish (I hear Damsels are good) to help the cycle or wait for my Ammonia and Nitrite to be zero? They are not and that confused me since I used a good portion of water from the previous owner.
4) Can I do both 2 & 3 above or 2 before 3?


If it helps my readings after I had filled up the tank and the filter running for 24 hours (Wednesday):
Ammonia: 50ppm
Nitrite: 15 ppm
Nitrate: 160 ppm
pH: 78
Salinity: 1.019
Temp: 76

Thanx for the advice.
Bill

[mbingha]

Hello all I am a several year fresh water multiple tank owner but new to saltwater.

I just (1 week ago) purchased a 55G tank, with cured live rock and about 40 Gallons of water that was already cycled. I have read lots but some stuff is old and other things are inconsistent and that is causing confusion.

Right now the tank is full, I topped it off with well water and the salinity is in acceptable range. I put some clean sand in the bottom, just a dusting (about 1/4 inch) because I like the white bottom sandy look. I have more to add if that is a bad idea.

I have a canister filter running with charcoal circulating the water with a power head on order.

I have loads of question and have loads to keep reading but for now I am wondering:

1) Can I turn on the T5 light since I don't have any fish or invertebrate? ( I read it should only be on for 10-12 hours)
2) Can or should I buy some snails, crabs and or shrimp to help keep the algae down?
3) Can or should I buy a fish (I hear Damsels are good) to help the cycle or wait for my Ammonia and Nitrite to be zero? They are not and that confused me since I used a good portion of water from the previous owner.
4) Can I do both 2 & 3 above or 2 before 3?


If it helps my readings after I had filled up the tank and the filter running for 24 hours (Wednesday):
Ammonia: 50ppm
Nitrite: 15 ppm
Nitrate: 160 ppm
pH: 78
Salinity: 1.019
Temp: 76

Thanx for the advice.
Bill

1) keep the light off for now, it will only end up growing unwanted algae.

2) do not put anything live in your tank until your ammonia and nitrite are zero, also you will want to do a couple water changes to get nitrates down after (and only after) the other two zero out. By water change, I mean approximately 10-15%, not 100% like many would with fresh water.

3) do not cycle your tank with damsels. It's an outdated and cruel practice. Also damsels tend to get large, ugly, and mean.

4) see 2 and 3

5) do yourself a favor and buy an rodi unit to make water, using will water is going to make keeping your tank healthy and pretty d@mn near impossible. You'll be adding minerals and other impurities that will fuel algae growth, and without knowing what's in there you could make it impossible to keep coral or other inverts alive or healthy.

6) welcome to Reef central! Some of the best advice you could ever ask for is right here. Most of your questions can be found in the stickies in this forum. Please check them out, it will really help you save your money, time, and headaches.

[xdestry]

Ammonia: 50ppm
Nitrite: 15 ppm
Nitrate: 160 ppm
pH: 78
Salinity: 1.019
Temp: 76

You need to wait till nitrite and ammonia are at 0 before putting anything live in, nitrates are also high so you should do a water change after the cycle ends and before you put in anything. salinity looks a bit low, try measuring the tds and nitrates of your well water and see what it is. also you will need an rodi unit as the above poster said, making clean water makes sure you are not adding any extra chemicals and minerals to your tank other than the amount in the salt mix you are using :)

[ChiReefGuy]

I'm new to the saltwater scene myself but a few things aren't sitting right with me. I'll answer as best as I can.

Hello all I am a several year fresh water multiple tank owner but new to saltwater.

I just (1 week ago) purchased a 55G tank, with cured live rock and about 40 Gallons of water that was already cycled. I have read lots but some stuff is old and other things are inconsistent and that is causing confusion.

Right now the tank is full, I topped it off with well water and the salinity is in acceptable range. I put some clean sand in the bottom, just a dusting (about 1/4 inch) because I like the white bottom sandy look. I have more to add if that is a bad idea.

I would 100% add more sand. You'll want at least an 1-1 3/4" more sand than you currently have.

I have a canister filter running with charcoal circulating the water with a power head on order.

I have loads of question and have loads to keep reading but for now I am wondering:

1) Can I turn on the T5 light since I don't have any fish or invertebrate? ( I read it should only be on for 10-12 hours)

The light isn't an issue. Run the tank like you would with livestock in it.

2) Can or should I buy some snails, crabs and or shrimp to help keep the algae down?

I wouldn't even think about adding livestock to your tank with all your params looking the way they do.
3) Can or should I buy a fish (I hear Damsels are good) to help the cycle or wait for my Ammonia and Nitrite to be zero? They are not and that confused me since I used a good portion of water from the previous owner.

Again like above I would highly advise against adding any livestock with your parameters that way.

4) Can I do both 2 & 3 above or 2 before 3?

Again, neither right now.

If it helps my readings after I had filled up the tank and the filter running for 24 hours (Wednesday):
Ammonia: 50ppm
Nitrite: 15 ppm
Nitrate: 160 ppm
pH: 78
Salinity: 1.019
Temp: 76

Temp is low IMO. I would bump her up to about 79-81 with about 81 being your top number for now. Ammonia and Nitrite should be 0 and Nitrate should be much, much lower before you think of adding livestock. Personally I would never reuse someone's water. You never know how well it was maintained. Water isn't that expensive to fill your tank the initial time. A dollar a gallon for premixed salt water. I would start with entirely new water. Salinity should be 1.025-1.028. The latter is the high range you want to see.



Thanx for the advice.
Bill
Just follow through and read some of the sticky threads on starting your first tank. Ask questions. A vast wealth of great info here. Good luck and welcome!

[ChiReefGuy]

Sand is all on opinion too, but if you like the look of sand I would recommend more. Some guys like the look of a bare bottom even, but sand will change up and add to the diversity of livestock you can have in there.

[ChiReefGuy]

And like mbingha said... ammonia and nitrite 0, then water changes of 10-20% to bring nitrates down.

[acabgd]

I'm new to the saltwater scene myself but a few things aren't sitting right with me. I'll answer as best as I can
Please don't give false info. Temp at 78 is just fine, I would even say most people have it there.
The lights should not be on during cycling as they promote algae growth. Taking into account the parameters, running the lights would be a sure way to ruin the tank.
Salinity at 1.028 is definitely too high. The range should be 1.024-1.026.

To the OP: I would dump the canister filter and get a HOB skimmer. I would also seriously think about getting a sump. Are you sure your ammonia is really at 50ppm? I would double check that reading.

[mbingha]

Please don't give false info. Temp at 78 is just fine, I would even say most people have it there.
The lights should not be on during cycling as they promote algae growth. Taking into account the parameters, running the lights would be a sure way to ruin the tank.
Salinity at 1.028 is definitely too high. The range should be 1.024-1.026.

To the OP: I would dump the canister filter and get a HOB skimmer. I would also seriously think about getting a sump. Are you sure your ammonia is really at 50ppm? I would double check that reading.

x2 and I was going to mention the canister/sump but typing on the phone is a pain and ran out of motivation lol.

[ChiReefGuy]

Please don't give false info. Temp at 78 is just fine, I would even say most people have it there.
The lights should not be on during cycling as they promote algae growth. Taking into account the parameters, running the lights would be a sure way to ruin the tank.
Salinity at 1.028 is definitely too high. The range should be 1.024-1.026.

To the OP: I would dump the canister filter and get a HOB skimmer. I would also seriously think about getting a sump. Are you sure your ammonia is really at 50ppm? I would double check that reading.

I could go ahead and say the same thing to you, just an fyi. Because I'm new doesn't mean I'm wrong. Temp can vary depending on livestock. His temp is at 76, not 78. It's too low. Anything from 78-81 is fine, depending, again, on the livestock he wants to keep. Lots of oceans break into the mid 80s during the right time of the year.

Oh, and salinity is actually measured in ppt. This is converted to specific gravity, the measurement you're giving. Anywhere from 32-37 is acceptable and typical of the ocean, and 35 is average. This ranges anywhere from 1.024 -1.028 in specific gravity. I ran my light during the very small cycle that my tank had, and had no issues and continue to have no issues. Know lots that have. Lighting wont ruin the tank. Those params likely will. Sorry, but before you try to make someone look or feel stupid think a little more.

Not trying to get in a ****ing match, but give useful information rather than spending more time trying to call someone out. Back to his thread and helping him out...

[shermanator]

Temp can vary depending on livestock. His temp is at 76, not 78. It's too low. Anything from 78-81 is fine, depending, again, on the livestock he wants to keep.

Many fish need lower temps, like jaw fish where 76 can work well. 78 is the most common.

Oh, and salinity is actually measured in ppm. This is converted to simple gravity, the measurement you're giving.

No, it's 35 ppt. Parts per thousand. And sg = specific gravity.

Specific gravity changes with temp (ppt does not) but generally 1.026 is all the higher you ever want to go. One important reason is that salt mix is meant to be 1.026 tops. Otherwise parameters like cal and alk will be out of whack.

[ChiReefGuy]

Many fish need lower temps, like jaw fish where 76 can work well. 78 is the most common.



No, it's 35 ppt. Parts per thousand. And sg = specific gravity.

Specific gravity changes with temp (ppt does not) but generally 1.026 is all the higher you ever want to go. One important reason is that salt mix is meant to be 1.026 tops. Otherwise parameters like cal and alk will be out of whack.

Ya I made my corrections already lol. Everytime I thing sg for some reason my mind says simple and not specific. And yes, ppt not ppm, which I corrected as well. Autocorrect got me there. Had to go back through and read it over to make edits. Guess I should proofread better when typing on my phone

[ChiReefGuy]

And thank you Sherman

[ChiReefGuy]

And for the temps thats why I said ita dependent on livestock he wants. Lots of cuc like a little lower temp as well. As for me... my tank stays at 78.7-79.5 at all times.

[Jetlinkin]

I could go ahead and say the same thing to you, just an fyi. Because I'm new doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Your are correct, being new has nothing to do with being wrong, but being wrong does.

Temp can vary depending on livestock. His temp is at 76, not 78. It's too low.

Actually "The temperature in reef aquariums should be maintained between 22-27 ˚C (72-80 ˚F) for the best results, and kept as stable as possible. " (Delbeek & Sprung, 2013)

Anything from 78-81 is fine, depending, again, on the livestock he wants to keep.

See above reference, but I would agree that 78-81 falls within the acceptable norms, and I have seen others reference their tank getting higher than that with no ill effects.

Lots of oceans break into the mid 80s during the right time of the year.

This is very true

Oh, and salinity is actually measured in ppm. This is converted to simple gravity, the measurement you're giving.

Simple gravity? As opposed to complex gravity? I am familiar with Specific Gravity. "Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of a water sample at a particular temperature compared to the density of pure water at the same temperature." (Delbeek & Sprung, 2014)

Anywhere from 32-37 is acceptable and typical of the ocean, and 35 is average. This ranges anywhere from 1.024 -1.028 in simple gravity.

"The density of seawater ranges from 1.022 to 1.030 in most coral reef regions. The acceptable range for Density in a marine aquarium is between 1.010 and 1.035. For a reef aquarium the range is a bit narrower, between 1.017 and 1.032." (Delbeek & Sprung 2014)

I ran my light during the very small cycle that my tank had, and had no issues and continue to have no issues. Know lots that have. Lighting wont ruin the tank.

You are correct, the lighting, likely, will not ruin the tank, but if an algae outbreak occurs as a result, it will likely ruin this new hobbist's experience, and may even drive them out of the hobby. Why not start with the best chance for success?

Those params likely will.

I seriously doubt it, but again, why not start with the best chance for success.

Sorry, but before you try to make someone look or feel stupid think a little more.

And I would add, try reading a little more, and back up your flame with some references and correct info.

Not trying to get in a ****ing match, but give useful information rather than spending more time trying to call someone out. Back to his thread and helping him out...

Agreed wholeheartedly. I think everyone should pay heed to this.

WORK CITED
Delbeek, J. Charles and Sprung, Julian (2014) The Reef Aquarium Volume Three: Science, Art, and Technology

[Borky00]

Thank you all for the advice, I have read live critters fish or otherwise would help the cycle but I will avoid them for now.

Update since reading more and taking new readings:
my Ammonia is down to .15ppm
My nitrites is .50 ppm
My SG is 1.022
and my temp is up to 80

I think because I used the previous owner's water I was ok but I will keep an eye on the Ammonia and Nitrites. I have a RO/DI on order and will start partials once that is here and operational.

More sand it is, I hope it is ok to use "dead" as that is all I have and from what I read that will eventually grow.

I am both excited and overwhelmed with the chemistry of the water aspect of the salt water over fresh.

Thanx again for all the advice I expected the differing opinions based on all the stuff I read.

Back to reading my books and on the internet. I will practice patience.

[Jetlinkin]

Thank you all for the advice, I have read live critters fish or otherwise would help the cycle but I will avoid them for now.

Update since reading more and taking new readings:
my Ammonia is down to .15ppm
My nitrites is .50 ppm
My SG is 1.022
and my temp is up to 80

I think because I used the previous owner's water I was ok but I will keep an eye on the Ammonia and Nitrites. I have a RO/DI on order and will start partials once that is here and operational.

More sand it is, I hope it is ok to use "dead" as that is all I have and from what I read that will eventually grow.

I am both excited and overwhelmed with the chemistry of the water aspect of the salt water over fresh.

Thanx again for all the advice I expected the differing opinions based on all the stuff I read.

Back to reading my books and on the internet. I will practice patience.

Live critters/fish would help the cycle, but that is an old practice that is no longer necessary / accepted. When ammonia and nitrites are at zero, do a 20% water change to help lower nitrates. Then add a good CUC. This will do two things, 1, clean up, and 2, keep your bio filter alive.

Now would be a good time to QT a couple of fish you want to put into the tank, because it will be ready for fish soon. Use the QT time to read every sticky from the start at the top of this forum and the Reef Discussion forum. These will help you with so many questions, before you even knew you were going to ask them.

You will be just fine using "dead" sand, but be sure to rinse it very well before putting it into the tank. If you do not, you will have a giant tank of milk water. The live sand and rock will populate the sand and make it "live". This can be done anytime by the way. Just do not cover the entire bottom at one time. Do it in approx. 1/4 sections at a time.

I absolutely love the challenge of this hobby. There are many aspects to it, and you can dive into as many, or as few as you wish.

You will definitely get many opinions on here. Remember to research on your own and get a lot of input before making any large decisions. You will also start to learn what works for you. Sometimes it will be different, but we are all trying to tell you what works for us. Sometimes I am wrong, but I try my best to tell you what works for me. Just remember, this is supposed to be fun. :dance:

[ChiReefGuy]

Live critters/fish would help the cycle, but that is an old practice that is no longer necessary / accepted. When ammonia and nitrites are at zero, do a 20% water change to help lower nitrates. Then add a good CUC. This will do two things, 1, clean up, and 2, keep your bio filter alive.

Now would be a good time to QT a couple of fish you want to put into the tank, because it will be ready for fish soon. Use the QT time to read every sticky from the start at the top of this forum and the Reef Discussion forum. These will help you with so many questions, before you even knew you were going to ask them.

You will be just fine using "dead" sand, but be sure to rinse it very well before putting it into the tank. If you do not, you will have a giant tank of milk water. The live sand and rock will populate the sand and make it "live". This can be done anytime by the way. Just do not cover the entire bottom at one time. Do it in approx. 1/4 sections at a time.

I absolutely love the challenge of this hobby. There are many aspects to it, and you can dive into as many, or as few as you wish.

You will definitely get many opinions on here. Remember to research on your own and get a lot of input before making any large decisions. You will also start to learn what works for you. Sometimes it will be different, but we are all trying to tell you what works for us. Sometimes I am wrong, but I try my best to tell you what works for me. Just remember, this is supposed to be fun. :dance:

Great advice and thanks for including references. I know its specific gravity, just cant stop with the simple in my brain as much as I try lol. The last part is 100% spot on. You'll get many opinions and most are what work for them. I was giving advice based on what has worked for me, and in no way would I ever imply that I was right or wrong. Unless you're way off in one direction or the other there really is no wrong. This is all just things I've read and researched over the time starting my tank. It is definitely all about having fun and enjoying our little personal reef/ocean. And those params look much better btw.

[Borky00]

Live critters/fish would help the cycle, but that is an old practice that is no longer necessary / accepted. When ammonia and nitrites are at zero, do a 20% water change to help lower nitrates. Then add a good CUC. This will do two things, 1, clean up, and 2, keep your bio filter alive.


Note to anyone replying in the beginner section: I am sure you all use acronyms all the time but us newbies don't know them all. :sad2: The first time you use one please spell it out and then feel free to use it as often as you like.

I am not sure where to go to see what CUC means. I may have come across it in all my reading but with so much to absorb I probably missed it. It sounds important so I want to make sure I am right.

So if I am close (I know possibly weeks) to getting fish should I get the snails and crabs etc, (algae eaters) first so they are comfortable in the tank before the fish or does it not matter.

Also, shouldn't I get some of the critters that live in the sand that was discussed in the beginner's guide that I read on this forum. The author suggested buying live sand to get some of the critters that live in it to agitate and stir up the sand but that was written back in 2003 and I figured by now you would have to buy those guys separately. Thoughts?

Thanx
Bill

[whiteshark]

Anything you might want in the sandbed will likely hitchhike in on live rock (abbreviated LR often). The sandbed issue is largely personal preference unless you're looking into a deep sand bed (DSB). Though personally I wouldn't recommend one, many have had success with them. One to two inches of sand is fine. I wouldn't go more than that. On that topic, what kind of sand are you adding? I ask because play sand from a place like Home Depot or Lowes can contain a lot of silicates which can promote the growth of unwanted diatoms.

Also, CUC = Clean Up Crew. A CUC generally consists of snails, crabs, bristle worms, etc. that eat algae and detritus. I like a couple turbo snails and some astreas, but there are a ton of options. Most sites or even local fish stores (LFS) will have CUC sections with many options. Just be sure to know exactly what you are getting. I.E. what their requirements are, what kind of tank mates they will do well with, whether or not they are reef safe, etc. Never put anything in your tank without researching it thoroughly first.

I generally add my CUC before my fish but it doesn't really matter. What is important is not to put anything in until ammonia and nitrite have reached and remained at 0 for an extended period of time. I usually wait at least a week with 0 ammonia and nitrite before stocking. It's also important not to stock too much at once. You don't want to go from no fish to fully stocked all at once as you could end up with a mini cycle as more bacteria establish themselves to keep up with the increased ammonia production from the fish.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

The above article and many others on that site I've found quite helpful.