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View Full Version : Electrocuted myself earlier, have some questions about safety. Plus gfci/ground poll!


xdestry
06/28/2014, 06:25 AM
Hi guys, so I electrocuted myself earlier. I was working on cleaning the glass when my Finnex ray II light was knocked into the tank with my right arm still in the water. Got a pretty big shock and had to sit down for a while after, but I was okay and got back to cleaning within about 3-4 minutes. It was definitely the biggest shock I ever experienced in my life, and I don't know whether I'm lucky to actually be alive right now or it was just a relatively small one compared to what would kill you. I did not have the GFCI cord I bought plugged in since I just set up the tank 4 days ago and not much was plugged in only the return pump, skimmer, heaters, and the finnex light. Little did I know that was enough time for me to screw up and get myself electrocuted :hammer:. Anyways my extension cord is plugged into the wall outlet through a portable GFCI outlet now, but I still have a few questions regarding what happened and about how to better protect myself against shock in the future.

My first question is, how much electricity did I actually experience? My finnex ray II light was plugged into an extension cord plugged into the wall outlet. The light specs read :
Input: AC110-240v
Output: DC15V

Does this mean I experienced around 15V of electricity? Am I lucky to be alive? I have no knowledge at all of electricity so please bear with me here. I'm trying to figure out how serious what just happened was.

Second question is that when the tank will be fully set up I will have mostly everything plugged into the neptune power bars, with the power bars plugged into a portable GFCI extension cord, which is plugged into the wall. If I were the drop the light into the tank again in this case the GFCI will shut off automatically right?

Third question, I am reading about gfcis and grounding probes from a very useful post I found which I'll post here(quite long) :




The grounding probe can be plugged to any grounded (three prung receptacle but the circuit(s) feeding the power to the aquarium equipment need to have GFCI installed to protect the aquarist.

A GFCI does not make the ground probe either necessary or un-necessary but a ground probe makes a GFCI necessary.

Here is the long and detailed answer so please stay with me.

There are several possible cases or scenarios of short circuit in an aquarium system.

Scenario 1. Hot line to water via submerged equipment. This is when a submerged piece of equipment like a powerhead, heater or UV lamp fails and the hot line of the power supply gets in contact with the water:

a) No GFCI and No Ground Probe.
As the tank is isolated from ground via plastic piping and wood stands the water becomes energized to 110 V but the main breaker does not trip as there is no current to ground. Fish has no problem because they are in a situation similar to a bird standing on a power line. This is a VERY DANGEROUS situation for the aquarist because as soon as you touch the water you get electrocuted as you become the path of current to ground. Breaker does not trip as there is not enough time for it to act or enough current to create enough heat. (They are slow trippers)

b) GFCI installed but no Ground Probe: Again nothing happen initially but the tank gets energized to 110 volts. as soon as you touch the water the GFCI will trip within 5 milliseconds and below a current of less than 5 milliamps. You may feel a small shock but nothing enough to hurt. This is the safest situation for the tank critters but may still hurt the aquarist mainly if the GFCI is malfunctioning.

c) GROUND PROBE INSTALLED BUT NO GFCI (Our case of discussion in this thread): As soon as the device fails and a short circuit is established then current is established to the ground probe, current may or may not be high enough to trip the breaker. Fish and critters will die and corals will RTN. If the breaker does not trip (Which is most of the cases) the short circuit may not be noticeable and you will be at a loss of why your critters are dying, even if you touch the water you may not notice unless the ground probe is not making a good ground. (See also Scenario 3c below) This is also a dangerous situation for potential fire. The current could be high but not high enough to trip the breaker, wires heat up, insulation melts and they catch fire.

d) Ground Probe Installed and GFCI installed: As soon as the short circuit is established the GFCI will trip shutting down whatever equipment is connected giving you a physical indication there is a short and something bad for you to fix immediately. This is the safest situation for the aquarist but has the downside that if you are away from the tank for a long time the lack of operating vital equipment may put your critters at risk.

So under this scenario the safest for the aquarist is to use both a GFCI and a ground probe. The next safest is to use GFCI alone.

[B]Scenario 2: Short circuit between hot line and neutral on submerged equipment:[B/]

a) No GFCI and No Ground Probe: device and line will over heat. if current is high enough breaker will trip but it may take some time 10 seconds up to 5 minutes depending on the quality of the short. Plastic parts or rubber seals on the device may melt creating a secondary short reviewed under scenario 1 and releasing toxic chemicals into the water also copper wire may get exposed also releasing copper sulphate and other copper compounds to the water. Large mortality of critter is most probable.

b) GFCI installed but no ground probe: GFCI will not activate even if a secondary short to water is created as the water is not grounded and there will be no leakage current to create a current un-balance between hot and neutral so GFCI will not be able to detect the situation. Here as in 2a above (as well as 2c below) you are dependant on the breaker.

c) Ground probe installed but no GFCI: Same situation as in 2a above but if a secondary short is created current will be established killing the tank inhabitants but just probably faster than the toxic chemicals or copper compounds. Here you are dependant on the breaker.

d) GFCI and ground Probe installed: If a secondary short is created this will be same as 1d above, GFCI will trip reliving both the short circuit and disconnecting the power to the device probably preventing or reducing the damage by chemicals or copper. If no secondary short develops again you depend on the breaker.

Here again the safest alternative will be GFCI and ground probe installed although will not be effective if a secondary short to water is not established. Note that as mentioned above a short from hot to neutral may create a fire as the wires may get hot enough to initiate it.

There is a new device in the market that will replace the breaker and designed for this kind of fault. It is called an AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) This device will fulfill the functions of a breaker but while a breaker rely on the heat of the wires created by the short circuit which makes it slow an AFCI detects the arc on the short circuit acting immediately. For full protection under scenario 2 an AFCI in the main panel plus a GFCI in the outlet and a ground probe in the tank will provide for full protection.

[B]Scenario 3: Short circuit from hot to a metal part of a non-submerged device and there is no current to trip the device as the metal body is not grounded:[B/] This is typical of a lighting fixture to whome one of the light bulb wires toches the reflector or the metalic hood or when some of the wiring of external pumps short to the pumps body and the body of the pump is not grounded.

a) No ground Probe and no GFCI installed: As the fault is external to the aquarium the aquarium does not get energized and no effect. If you touch the device depending on how well insulated from ground you are (rubber soles vs bare foot, globes vs bare hands etc) you may just get jolted or may get electrocuted.

b) GFCI installed but no ground probe: If you are touching the water and touch the device the GFCI will trip even if the short is within the external device. Typical of this fault is when a termial on a lamp in the hood gets shorted to the hood itself via salt creep. you are working in the water while you touch the hood with your arm or shoulder.

c) Ground probe and no GFCI: This is one of the the main reasons why probes shall not be installed unless a GFCI is also installed. The water will be perfectly grounded. If you are working in the water and touch the device you will get badly shocked or electrocuted even is you yourself are electrically insulated by the use of rubber soles or such.

d) Ground Probe and GFCI: GFCI will trip as soon as you touch the body of the device saving you once more.

For this scenario the safest will be 3b and 3d above. To make this a really safe situation: i) Use only devices installed with three prong plugs they usually ground the body using the third prong.
ii) Replace the plug and wire of any device to a three pong plug and connect the green wire to the body of the device. (The metal hood, the body of the ballast, the casing of the pump etc.)
Note that many power heads only use 2 prong plugs, if possible select one with three prongs. (Maxi jets used to have three prong wires and plugs but they were replaced with a lighter insulation wire and two prong plugs. It is still unclear to me why. Cost?, Did not want to potentially ground the water? Only they know)

[B]Scenario 4: Short from hot to neutral or grounded body of an external device:[B/]

Under this scenario for all cases you will be dependant on the breaker. If the current is high but the breaker is slow on acting there might be a fire. The use of an Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter instead of a breaker will reduce the fire possibility.

[B]Scenario 5: Short from Neutral to water:[B/] As usually the neutral wire is grounded either at the outside were the wires enter the house or at the main nothing happens unless this neutral grounding is not perfect some small voltage may develop creating the following situation:

a) No GFCI and No Probe: nothing will happen, you may detect small voltage of the water to ground, if you touch the water you may feel a small shock if you are not insulated enough.

b) GFCI but no ground probe: if you touch the water and the voltage is high enough to generate at least 5 milliamps the GFCI will trip.

c) Ground probe but no GFCI: The small voltage may create a permanent small current, this may be enough to start killing the most sensitive critters, (Pods and Snails) and create coral RTN over long term.

d) GFCI and Ground Probe: same as 5b above. If the current is below 5 milliamps it may still create a small current which may affect the tank inhabitants but in a lesser degree given the smaller current level than 5c above.

So in summary overall the safest for the aquarist will be the installation of AFCI, GFCI and Ground Probe. The safest for the inhabitants will be AFCI and GFCI without ground probe. This is the reason why many aquarist do not use ground probes (but will always use GFCIs) specially traveling ones that stay away for extended periods of time. If you have a remote alarm system installed that may page you or send you an E-Mail in case of a fault (Like the aqua controller from Neptune Systems) you shall have no doubts and have your Probe installed with your GFCI's)

Opposite the most dangerous situation is not having at least a GFCI. By the way many states, city or county electrical codes require installation of GFCIs on any location where electrical equipment may be exposed to water like outdoors, kitchens, bathrooms, aquariums, spas etc. If this is the case and there is an accident or fire the insurance company MAY NOT PAY. so be warned.

I hope this long explanation may save some of us out there from at least a couple of jolts. By the way it is not smart (Trying to be nice an not saying plainly stupid) to use one-self as a test subject. I had a friend who got a small shock while testing a hood, he kept on shcocking himself trying to find out where the short was! Get a multi tester is you need to do this.

Enjoy and happy reefing!


I was wondering how many people use gfcis, and how many use both grounding probes with their gfcis as well. According to the near end of the article the safest path for the aquarist to take is to have the GFCI with a ground probe, however this path is not as safe for the fish. Frankly I don't really care if all my fish die, I need to keep myself as safe as possible or else I won't be able to enjoy the fish anyway :lol:.

So what do you guys all use in your tanks? I know most people on here all have GFCI's but how many of you guys use grounding probes as well? I haven't heard of many people actually dying from electrocution from their aquariums but it must have happened to a few unfortunate souls out there.

Wills612
06/28/2014, 07:40 AM
Multiple gfci's, so if one pops my entire tank doesn't shut down. No ground probe for me.

d2mini
06/28/2014, 08:21 AM
Multiple gfci's, so if one pops my entire tank doesn't shut down. No ground probe for me.

Same here.

disc1
06/28/2014, 08:24 AM
110V will give you a pretty hard buzz, but it's not normally going to kill you if you just get a shock. I've been hit with 110 enough times to know.

I'm all for GFCI but I don't use any grounding probes. There's no replacement for GFCI when you've got water around electricity. Anyone who doesn't have GFCI isn't just "living life on the edge" as you put it, they're pretty freaking stupid.

And as a technical note, you most definitely did NOT get electrocuted. If you did you wouldn't be writing us this nice thread. No, the word for what happened to you is shocked. Electrocuted means death by electricity.

staindsoul
06/28/2014, 08:29 AM
I just wanted to offer up a quick guide to electricity and our tanks to help out people with little to no experience on the subject. I do NOT claim to know it all, there are far more intelligent people on this site with more accolades than me. I am a electrician working primarily in industrial controls and power for 10 years now. I have gotten a ton of info on this site, and have become addicted to this hobby. I can't offer a lot on reefs yet, but I wanted to help out on what I can.

Safety Measures You can take:

GFCI's

A gfci operates by measuring the current between the ungrounded ("hot") conductor and the grounded conductor (neutral). If it becomes unbalanced it will trip and turn off the circuit. Meaning, if the circuit is pulling 5 amps, and .005 amps strays to anything other than the return path of the neutral, ie the grounding conductor or you, it will trip.

A gfci is primarily to protect you. It will also protect the tank, but it is there to keep you alive. It is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!! It can come in a power strip, recptacle or breaker. They all work the same, one may last longer than the other.

Surge Protector's

These typically come in power strips that are cheap and come in power strips. They inhibit a voltage spike to protect equipment that it is supplying power for. They do not offer any protection for you.

A surge protector may be a hazardous piece of equipment, that a gfci, afci, or circuit breaker may not (highly probable) stop from causing a fire or damage. Please, please do a ALOT OF RESEARCH before you decide to use this or not. There is a risk to using them that IMO doesn't outweigh the benefits of protecting my tank equipment. Thanks to Westom for schooling me on the danger of these here
-->http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...urge+protector

Some more threads that a surge protector didn't go well:
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ad.php?t=55174
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...r-weekend.html
http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/P...OR%20FIRES.doc

Ground Probes

A ground probe should be used in your tank. It is used for stray voltages. (see bottom for stray voltages). A ground probe will put your tank at the same potential as your grounding conductor in your electrical system. IMO, you should use it with a gfci. The probe will put the tank at the same potential as your grounding conductor for tripping your circuit breaker. However during the time it takes to clear your breaker, your tank will be experiencing high current levels. If a gfci is used in conjunction with a ground probe, it will trip the circuit before the current reaches higher levels and may not even trip the circuit breaker.

Afci Breakers

Afci breakers are newer. The NEC is starting to require these breakers in many new locations in residential homes. A afci stands for arc fault circuit interrupter. A afci does not replace a gfci! A afci monitors the circuit for any arcing on ungrounded to grounded or ungrounded to grounding conductor faults. They use a circuit board to monitor the current sine wave, recognizing a short circuit fault and opening the circuit. They are not cheap, but can be used as a great safety feature. They compliment a gfci recptacle. I am not using one yet, but will be shortly. In theory you could have water splash and produce a arc fault from ungrounded to grounded and never trip a gfi.

A link:
http://www.pfeiffereng.com/The%20Arc...nterrupter.pdf

Stray Voltages:

Many people grab a meter and think they have a stray voltage in their tank. When in reality they don't. The BEST way to ensure you don't have any stray voltage is a gfci and ground probe in your tank. Stray voltage readings are meaningless without current readings.

To properly test your tank: take one probe on your meter while set on VAC to the grounding conductor and one probe to water surface of your tank. If you do not have a grounding probe you WILL read a voltage.

When I did my results were 24vac to the grounding conductor. When I did it to the grounded (nuetral) conductor I got 39 volts, and to the ungrounded conductor I got 69 volts. My current readings were 0 amps. These voltage readings are harmless. They are shown because of induction and difference of potential of two separate conductors. Stray voltage should be a concern when it gets closer to 105 vac or more, but a gfci and ground probe WILL alleviate any of those concerns of having stray voltage and not knowing it. If a gfci trips, you can troubleshoot from there.

After a ground probe is installed my tank the readings were the following:

Tank to ground conductor- 0 volts
Tank to neutral conductor- .112 volts (the difference would be the distance to the panel bonding conductor, it is of no concern)
Tank to hot conductor-123 volts

I will say it one more time, if you believe you are having stray voltage issues, and do not have a gfci at minimum on the tank power supply, GET A GFCI RECPTACLE OR POWER STRIP. It is not a cover all solution, but it does cover a majority.

Tips:

Heat is a great warning sign for any electrical problem. Check your cords, power strips,and power supplies by hand for any warm or warmer than normal spots, while checking for frays, knicks, cuts, etc. Do this monthly or more.

A gfci does not last forever, consider changing it yearly or every 2 years. Use the push to test once a month to make sure it is still functioning.

IMO, the perfect setup is a gfci recptacle, non surge suppressor dj power strip, and a tank ground probe. But check multiple sources before you make your decision.

Mrramsey
06/28/2014, 08:30 AM
Whoops Duplicate post....

Mrramsey
06/28/2014, 08:40 AM
GFCI for me albeit I haven't installed it yet so technically I am living on the edge at the moment. I will be picking up a new one today though. :bounce3:

johnike
06/28/2014, 08:43 AM
4 separate circuits, each GFCI protected here.
No grounding probe.

dkeller_nc
06/28/2014, 08:58 AM
With respect to how much electricity you received when you were shocked, it might surprise you to know how very little it was. At normal household voltage levels (110 Volts), a current over a few milliamperes is sufficient to cause ventricular fibrillation and death in a human if a circuit through the heart is established (i.e., a current established through both arms, such as having one hand in the tank and touching an energized plug with the other). If the circuit isn't through the heart, around 30 milliamps is sufficient to cause fibrillation and potentially, death.

So since a typical household circuit is capable of providing 15 amps (15,000 milliamps), why doesn't getting a shock from a malfunctioning electrical device produce hundreds or thousands of deaths a year? The answer is that your skin, if it's dry, is an incredible electrical insulator. And the current that will flow through a completed circuit is dependent on both the voltage and the resistance (technically, impedance in an AC circuit).

The situation changes if your skin is wet, particularly if you're wet with salty water (from perspiration or saltwater). In this case, much of the resistance of dry skin is lost, and a much greater amount of current can flow through the completed circuit.

Nevertheless, if you're standing on a dry floor in dry rubber tennis shoes, the path to ground has a very high resistance - you will likely feel a shock if a piece of equipment in the tank is broken and energizing the water to 110V, but not enough to be anything more than mighty unpleasant. This is partly why electric shock death from working on an aquarium is extremely rare - there's only been one documented case that I'm aware of in the last several years.

In my opinion, the best electrical safety advice for saltwater aquariums is:

1) Frequently inspect your equipment, and don't use old, questionable-condition powered aquarium equipment. This is particularly applicable to powerheads and heaters, where the insulation is subject to attack by saltwater and eventually breaks down.

2) Place your aquarium on a wooden or linoleum floor. If you're forced to site it on grade-level concrete, place it on a rubber insulating mat that's large enough for you to stand on while working in the tank.

3) Never work on the tank barefoot, and never work on the tank if you've spilled saltwater on your shoes or the newspaper/towels you might be standing on. Stop and clean up, then resume your activities.

4) When starting work on the tank, touch the water with one hand only, while standing on a dry floor in dry tennis shoes. Electrical safety devices do fail, and you're far better off getting a mild electrical shock in this situation than putting your hands in the tank with wet shoes and/or standing on a wet floor.

5) Consider replacing your submerged electrical equipment with DC-powered devices. There's something to be said for removing the threat of high-voltage shock altogether.

All this said, I don't use GFCI circuits on my salt tanks. This is a personal risk choice based on nuisance GFCI trips killing everything in the tank if I'm not here, and the remote possibility of a serious electrical shock given decent safety procedures. But that choice isn't for everyone.

d2mini
06/28/2014, 09:08 AM
Just a note on arc fault breakers. Our house came with them because its now code but i had to remove any associated with the tank and one or two others in the house due to too many nuisance trips. I would never use them on my tank.

Metazoer
06/28/2014, 09:11 AM
Several people have mentioned "multiple GFCIs" or "separate circuits..."

How does this work exactly? (I'm an electrical noob...) I mean if your main circulating pump / powerhead is plugged into a socket, and that socket goes, how does having multiple GFCIs / circuits help?

Are people implying that they have multiple pumps/powerheads and they're each plugged into a different circuit?

markalot
06/28/2014, 09:20 AM
I disagree with having a grounding probe with GFCI. All a grounding probe will do is help complete any circuit in the water if there is a voltage leak and either trip the GFCI while you are out of town or cause health issues inside the tank if the current is not enough to trip the GFCI but enough to harm the inhabitants. If the voltage leak is dangerous the circuit will trip when you put your hand in the tank.

I'm for multiple GFCI circuits and no grounding probe. :)

Personally, while out of town I always plug one pump into a non GFCI circuit and this helped save one of my tanks which tripped, of course, a day after we left. On my new tank I plan to run my vortech pumps and LED lights on non GFCI circuits and everything else split between two GFCI protected circuits. When I go out of town I put a heater in the display (if in winter) non GFCI and a big note somewhere not to reach into the tank.

d2mini
06/28/2014, 10:01 AM
Several people have mentioned "multiple GFCIs" or "separate circuits..."

How does this work exactly? (I'm an electrical noob...) I mean if your main circulating pump / powerhead is plugged into a socket, and that socket goes, how does having multiple GFCIs / circuits help?

Are people implying that they have multiple pumps/powerheads and they're each plugged into a different circuit?

In other words, don't have your whole tank plugged into one outlet.
Many of us have several outlets installed near the tank, with each one going to it's own circuit breaker. This way if something trips one of your circuits, the whole tank isn't down. Just whatever was on that one circuit.

Wills612
06/28/2014, 02:38 PM
X2 d2mini, I set mine up so I have a form of tank circulation on each gfci.

Randy Holmes-Farley
06/28/2014, 03:52 PM
I disagree with having a grounding probe with GFCI. All a grounding probe will do is help complete any circuit in the water if there is a voltage leak and either trip the GFCI while you are out of town or cause health issues inside the tank if the current is not enough to trip the GFCI but enough to harm the inhabitants. If the voltage leak is dangerous the circuit will trip when you put your hand in the tank.

I have a different approach: GFCI and grounding probe. I do not want it to be my body that completes the circuit and trips the GFCI. I also do not want wires from a broken heater or such exposed to the tank water without anything telling me there is a problem (a GFCI+ ground will detect that, a GFCI alone may not). FWIW, I have had many heaters break and trip the GFCI over the years.

If you are concerned about something happening when you are away on vacation, and think the ground probe caused it, it is easy enough to remove the probe when away, or put critical things on regular AC with no GFCI when no one is home. :)

xdestry
06/28/2014, 11:42 PM
110V will give you a pretty hard buzz, but it's not normally going to kill you if you just get a shock. I've been hit with 110 enough times to know.

I'm all for GFCI but I don't use any grounding probes. There's no replacement for GFCI when you've got water around electricity. Anyone who doesn't have GFCI isn't just "living life on the edge" as you put it, they're pretty freaking stupid.

And as a technical note, you most definitely did NOT get electrocuted. If you did you wouldn't be writing us this nice thread. No, the word for what happened to you is shocked. Electrocuted means death by electricity.


Heh yeah the shock felt pretty strong and I felt kind of lightheaded afterwards, would not want to ever feel anything stronger than that if thats considered "light" haha.


With respect to how much electricity you received when you were shocked, it might surprise you to know how very little it was. At normal household voltage levels (110 Volts), a current over a few milliamperes is sufficient to cause ventricular fibrillation and death in a human if a circuit through the heart is established (i.e., a current established through both arms, such as having one hand in the tank and touching an energized plug with the other). If the circuit isn't through the heart, around 30 milliamps is sufficient to cause fibrillation and potentially, death.

So since a typical household circuit is capable of providing 15 amps (15,000 milliamps), why doesn't getting a shock from a malfunctioning electrical device produce hundreds or thousands of deaths a year? The answer is that your skin, if it's dry, is an incredible electrical insulator. And the current that will flow through a completed circuit is dependent on both the voltage and the resistance (technically, impedance in an AC circuit).

The situation changes if your skin is wet, particularly if you're wet with salty water (from perspiration or saltwater). In this case, much of the resistance of dry skin is lost, and a much greater amount of current can flow through the completed circuit.

Nevertheless, if you're standing on a dry floor in dry rubber tennis shoes, the path to ground has a very high resistance - you will likely feel a shock if a piece of equipment in the tank is broken and energizing the water to 110V, but not enough to be anything more than mighty unpleasant. This is partly why electric shock death from working on an aquarium is extremely rare - there's only been one documented case that I'm aware of in the last several years.

In my opinion, the best electrical safety advice for saltwater aquariums is:

1) Frequently inspect your equipment, and don't use old, questionable-condition powered aquarium equipment. This is particularly applicable to powerheads and heaters, where the insulation is subject to attack by saltwater and eventually breaks down.

2) Place your aquarium on a wooden or linoleum floor. If you're forced to site it on grade-level concrete, place it on a rubber insulating mat that's large enough for you to stand on while working in the tank.

3) Never work on the tank barefoot, and never work on the tank if you've spilled saltwater on your shoes or the newspaper/towels you might be standing on. Stop and clean up, then resume your activities.

4) When starting work on the tank, touch the water with one hand only, while standing on a dry floor in dry tennis shoes. Electrical safety devices do fail, and you're far better off getting a mild electrical shock in this situation than putting your hands in the tank with wet shoes and/or standing on a wet floor.

5) Consider replacing your submerged electrical equipment with DC-powered devices. There's something to be said for removing the threat of high-voltage shock altogether.

All this said, I don't use GFCI circuits on my salt tanks. This is a personal risk choice based on nuisance GFCI trips killing everything in the tank if I'm not here, and the remote possibility of a serious electrical shock given decent safety procedures. But that choice isn't for everyone.


Hi dkeller thanks for the advice. The shock felt pretty strong to me so yeah I am very surprised to find out it was actually relatively weak. I don't usually wear shoes in the house and I actually did not know about the whole being "grounded" thing and having the electricity flow into you to the ground. I stood on a plastic work bench today and dipped a finger with a small cut on it into the tank and felt a slight sting when I stood on the ground, but absolutely nothing when I was on the bench. I might buy a rubber yoga pad or something and put it in front of my tank so I am always standing on that whenever I work on anything in the tank. I am kind of wary now of touching my tank, every time before I stick my hand in there i just stick a finger in just to test. Better safe than sorry!




I think after reading everyones comments here I will be buying more than one gfci with grounding probes, and make sure that I have at least my two vortechs on separate circuits so they do not both trip at the same time. If i am ever leaving for vacation or for a prolonged period of time I can plug things directly into the wall socket bypassing gfci since I will not be near the tank anyways, and just plug it all back in when I am home. That seems like the safest way. Even if I am at work and it trips and I am not able to get home till a few hours later I should still have my vortechs running either on the separate gfci or using the battery backups. Flow seems to be the most important thing, you can go without skimmer, reactors, etc for quite a long time but no flow for more than a few hours might be the worst scenario. Only problem now is if my gfci with the return pump trips, then since the heaters are in the sump the DT won't be heated. Anybody have a solution to this?

Musicmacd
06/29/2014, 12:10 AM
Does the 110V supply cord feed directly to the light or a transformer pack external to the light?
You really should go to hospital and have your heart checked if you felt it was a big shock, you may feel ok but your heart could be irregular now.
I say this as an Electrical contractor.
remember if there is no earth conductor the safety switch will do nothing anyway :(

xdestry
06/29/2014, 12:33 AM
Does the 110V supply cord feed directly to the light or a transformer pack external to the light?
You really should go to hospital and have your heart checked if you felt it was a big shock, you may feel ok but your heart could be irregular now.
I say this as an Electrical contractor.
remember if there is no earth conductor the safety switch will do nothing anyway :(

Hey there was no transformer or anything just a direct plug from the light to my extension cord, to the wall.

The light was this one right here

http://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Ray2-Aquarium-Daylight-30-Inch/dp/B00BDDIPAU

Does that provide any info?

Musicmacd
06/29/2014, 01:23 AM
Sounds like you would of recieved an electric shock, did the breaker operate? Or did you pull yourself out??
The advice i gave is professional not personal :)
I've had a few 240v and a couple of 415v and have never been to a hospital, but as a contractor by law i have to give that advice - in Australia anyway.
Just be careful around water+electric. Never rely on anything but common sense as protective devices can fail and also might not operate under certain conditions.

dkeller_nc
06/29/2014, 10:46 AM
By the way, if you have vortech pumps, you really don't need to put them on a GFCI-protected circuit. The electricity that runs a Vortech, by design, is completely isolated from the tank - the wetside has no electricity running to it.

hogfanreefer
06/29/2014, 01:54 PM
Those that run multiple GFCI's. How does that work if you use a controller?

xdestry
07/04/2014, 02:09 AM
By the way, if you have vortech pumps, you really don't need to put them on a GFCI-protected circuit. The electricity that runs a Vortech, by design, is completely isolated from the tank - the wetside has no electricity running to it.

Ah yeah that makes sense, however if theyre connected to an apex unit energy bar I guess you wouldn't be able to have one on a non-gfci anyway since the energy bar would have to be plugged into the gfci right? I haven't set up my apex unit yet, is there even any point to have the vortechs controlled by the apex? Seems like it can be programmed itself

alton
07/04/2014, 10:09 AM
i disagree with having a grounding probe with gfci. All a grounding probe will do is help complete any circuit in the water if there is a voltage leak and either trip the gfci while you are out of town or cause health issues inside the tank if the current is not enough to trip the gfci but enough to harm the inhabitants. If the voltage leak is dangerous the circuit will trip when you put your hand in the tank.

i have a different approach: Gfci and grounding probe. I do not want it to be my body that completes the circuit and trips the gfci. I also do not want wires from a broken heater or such exposed to the tank water without anything telling me there is a problem (a gfci+ ground will detect that, a gfci alone may not). Fwiw, i have had many heaters break and trip the gfci over the years.

If you are concerned about something happening when you are away on vacation, and think the ground probe caused it, it is easy enough to remove the probe when away, or put critical things on regular ac with no gfci when no one is home. :)

x2

Silly clownfish
07/04/2014, 09:04 PM
I keep a GFCI power strip, have a GFCI outlet, all on a circuit breaker and have a grounding probe on my main tank.

I had once had a 10g jail tank for a nasty damsel and dropped a non-submersible heater in the tank (I don't think they sell those things any more). It was not on GFCI and did not trip the breaker. I needed to run to the basement to turn off the breaker. I didn't touch the tank so I didn't get zapped. But that was one pi$$ed damsel! It gave a whole new meaning to the name electric blue damsel. It was super bright blue for a while. I still had that fish for years after, but had to move it to yet another holding tank because the fried heater left an oily black film on the water.

dkeller_nc
07/05/2014, 01:43 PM
Ah yeah that makes sense, however if theyre connected to an apex unit energy bar I guess you wouldn't be able to have one on a non-gfci anyway since the energy bar would have to be plugged into the gfci right? I haven't set up my apex unit yet, is there even any point to have the vortechs controlled by the apex? Seems like it can be programmed itself

The only reason that I can see to have the Vortechs plugged into the Energy Bar is to either monitor power usage, have a more convenient means of switching them off for maintenance than the idiot lights/buttons on the pump controller, or both. In other words, I wouldn't plug them into the EB unless I just had spare, unused outlets.

I should mention that I dislike the "universal, no language translation required" control/button indicators on the Vortechs enough to the point that I bought the Apex wxm module - works like a champ, and a heck of a lot easier to program/change settings. Otherwise, I found myself getting out the Vortech manual every time because I couldn't remember the stupid button/LED sequences.

ca1ore
07/05/2014, 07:14 PM
I should mention that I dislike the "universal, no language translation required" control/button indicators on the Vortechs enough to the point that I bought the Apex wxm module - works like a champ, and a heck of a lot easier to program/change settings. Otherwise, I found myself getting out the Vortech manual every time because I couldn't remember the stupid button/LED sequences.

Glad I'm not the only one. WXM has made adjusting these pumps a piece of cake. Wireless range is good enough to cover all of my tanks too.

Oh yes, I'm in the GFCI and probe camp - though the last time I looked at the probe it was so caked with coraline I doubt it actually does much. BTW, those styro lids from DD/LA make great insulating pads to stand on while fussing with my sump. No probe or stray in the DT.