does ich have to be introduced or is it always present?

[fastjunkie]

I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but my searches come up with iffy answers at best. My reason for asking is I have a kole and chocolate tang who have come down with ick. These are the only 2 fish I have in my 125gal. I added them about 2 months ago and have had no issues until now. I've added no others so I'm not sure how or why this is happening now. Now I have added quite a few frags, could the ich have hitch hiked? All my water params are in check and I see no visual signs of stress. I've prepared a QT and I'm gonna do the whole hyposalinity thing....just curious on everyone's input

[scuzy]

Introduce, if you never quarantine its likely they had it on them but never showed signs of it until now.

[ThaBeast]

Ich has to be introduced. It could have come in the water on frags, inverts, etc or could have been a low level infection in your fishes gills. Ich won't hitchhike on frags or inverts, but can be introduced in mere drops of infected water given the right circumstances

[ca1ore]

Yes, ich must be introduced, it does not spontaneously occur. It is vastly more likely to come in on a fish, either one that shows symptoms or on one that does not. It is also possible, though less likely, for an ich cyst to come in on a coral, snail, rock, etc. if you wish to approach a 100% probability for an ich free tank, you must QT everything wet.

You can have an ich free tank; you can also have a tank with ich, yet the fish are asymptomatic - though there are no guarantees that they will remain that way.

[fastjunkie]

Great replies everyone....thanx. my next question is how long will ich survive in my display tank without a host? I have a hospital tank set up and plan on using the hyposalinity method for my tangs and even though I may cure my tangs in QT....how long before my main tank is safe?

[snorvich]

Ich has to be introduced. It could have come in the water on frags, inverts, etc or could have been a low level infection in your fishes gills. Ich won't hitchhike on frags or inverts, but can be introduced in mere drops of infected water given the right circumstances

This.

[snorvich]

Great replies everyone....thanx. my next question is how long will ich survive in my display tank without a host?

72 days at the most. I do not recommend hypo as it is very difficult to execute properly.

[fastjunkie]

O.k.all.....opted against hypo and going the cupramine route. Set up a 29 tall with a 10g sump. Filled the sump with fresh rodi and salt and filled the qt with water from my main tank. Gonna move them in and give them a day or so to settle in before I start treatment. They are still eating like pigs so they aren't too stressed yet. Hopefully all goes well!

[scuzy]

Watch your ammonia cause tank isn't cycled yet

[shifty51008]

I would skip using a sump on a qt, just use the 29 gal.

[fastjunkie]

Scuzzy......will it cycle? Im using water to fill my 29 from my main tank which has been cycled. Shifty....why not a sump? I basically added it to increase the water volume a bit. Thought it may help beings I'm adding 2 tangs to a 29 gal(39g) with sump. I also thought it would help oxygenate the system since copper treatment depleted oxygen.....thanx for your input! Everything is helpful

[shifty51008]

nothing really wrong with a sump setup if you already have the equipment. I was thinking you didn't have the stuff.

it really won't cycle because in a HT there really isn't anywhere for the bacteria to colonize, plus the copper will kill it off anyway.

In a QT you will have a sponge filter of some sort that will help cycle the tank.

[fastjunkie]

Won't the copper then kill the bacteria on the sponge as well?

[MrTuskfish]

Scuzzy......will it cycle? Im using water to fill my 29 from my main tank which has been cycled. Shifty....why not a sump? I basically added it to increase the water volume a bit. Thought it may help beings I'm adding 2 tangs to a 29 gal(39g) with sump. I also thought it would help oxygenate the system since copper treatment depleted oxygen.....thanx for your input! Everything is helpful

Water isn't cycled. "Cycled" simply means that your tank is supporting enough friendly bacteria to handle the ammonia, etc., that builds up. The bacteria live in rock, substrate, filter media, etc. Cupramine will make a dent in the friendly bacteria, but not destroy it.You can quickly cycle a tank with a HOB filter and Bio-Spira or Dr. Tim's; both proven bacteria starters.

[fastjunkie]

Could I simply do small water changes when needed? As long as I keep all levels in check

[MrTuskfish]

Could I simply do small water changes when needed? As long as I keep all levels in check
Yes, but if using copper; be sure copper is added to the new water before it goes into the tank. Never use ammonia neutralizers with copper. (Prime, Am-Quel, etc. ) Here's some good info on Cupramine , the FAQ are vital:http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

[fastjunkie]

Update.....well did a 1/2 first dose of cupramine and 12 hours later..........2 dead tangs. Found one dead and the other lying on its side gasping for air. All params are good and there was an air pump to help with oxygen. Anyone experience this before?

[scuzy]

With copper you have to really go slow upping the dosage over days. Are you sure you don't have any water neutralizer in the new water you made.?

[fastjunkie]

Scuz....positive. just rodi water and oceanic salt, and only about 10 gal of it too. The qt tank I filled using water from my main system. Thing is only my tangs died, the blue chromis are fine. Just checked copper levels again and they are less than .25. Didnt even get a chance to up the dose to correct levels

[CoralsAddiction]

Sorry for your loss. I lost my super male lineatus fairy wrasse the same way.

[MrTuskfish]

Scuz....positive. just rodi water and oceanic salt, and only about 10 gal of it too. The qt tank I filled using water from my main system. Thing is only my tangs died, the blue chromis are fine. Just checked copper levels again and they are less than .25. Didnt even get a chance to up the dose to correct levels

Most ammonia tests don't work with copper; the little stick on ammonia alert badges. With two tangs, and other fish, in only 10 gals of water with no real bio-filtration-----it sounds like ammonia. Chromis can handle a lot more ammonia than tangs.

[fastjunkie]

Tuskfish.....I read your reply in my other thread....thank you for the input. I actually had them in a 29g with a 10g sump.

[hogfanreefer]

Man I'm lost. Where did the chromis come from, I thought the two tangs were your only fish?

If you went from no copper to 1/2 the therapeutic level in one dose that might have been part of the problem. I always took 4-6 days to get the entire dose in.

Think about tank transfer instead of copper next time. I think it's a better mouse trap.

[fastjunkie]

Hogfan.....it calls for 16drops per 10.5gal. I roughly have 40 gal so I was adding 32 drops the first day and testing and then 32 drops on day two and tested. Still under .50 for copper....this hobby is Definatly a learning process.

[hogfanreefer]

I know the level didn't read high but I think it's still a lot safer to spread it out over at least 4 days. No way to know if that contributed to the demise of your tangs. You are certainly right about the learning process. Something new every day.

What test were you using for copper? I don't find any of them very easy to use or read. Wish some one would make a better test for copper.