Lots of acros died after 2 parts!! PLEASE HELP!!!

[uwiik]

Hi folks!!
I am running a commercial export facility down in Jakarta-Indonesia. Relying on skimmers, massive amount of live rocks and 2 times a weeks 10% water change my water parameter with NSW has been very stable for years with the following parameters:
- PH 7.8-8.2
- Salinity 1.025
- Ca 380-400
- Alk hovering around 7
- mg 1280
- Nitrate 2.5-4
- Phospate 0.02-0.1 depending of the time of the year due to NSW

Earlier this year around January-February we have been poured with some of the heaviest rain, we had flood too, so the NSW level dropped to a very very bad level, 2 out of 6 systems was down due to unacceptable water quality, colors faded, corals became much weaker, all acros became brown, but the mortality rate was still very low.

After the weather got better somewhere around March, we resumed water change, salinity was back to normal at 1.025 but all other parameters was not good with the following parameters:
- PH 7.3-7.7
- Salinity 1.025
- Ca 330
- Alk hovering around 6.5-6.7
- mg 1100
- Nitrate 3-5
- Phospate 0.05-0.1

I did not take any correction steps because this exact stuff had happened to a lesser degree before and everything turned back to normal in no time just by the weather getting better and lots of water change....

This time this was not the case, I started suspecting something is off because the super thick coralline algae that used to entirely cover my new water reservoir is not recovering, my corals including some of the difficult SPS although looking very colorful and very healthy are not growing, my frags stopped growing and damaged corals takes forever to recover...

I measured everything again and apparently all the parameters stays bad even after 3 months of sunny weather.....So I decided to do a corrective action...

Using Randy's 2 part 1st recipe formula I started everything by correcting the kh first, I jacked up the hardness from 6.7 to 7.9 dKh in the course of two days, then boosted the calcium from 330 to 380 on third day, on the same day with the calcium part I also added magnesium sulfate and Magnesium chloride with Randy's ratio and jacked up the magnesium to 1170. Each day after each dose I swore everything looking a million times better, I can definitely see more 'glow' on my SPS, my loripes, bali tricolor, granulosa and all the rest of the acros was having fat and full polyp extension swinging back and forth gracefully with the motion from wave maker.....

Then I dosed more magnesium formula on the 5th day to bring the value to 1200, but on that day I was short on Magnesium chloride so I used much more Magnesium sulfate, off course with prior careful calculation on the dose, on 6th day all hell broke lose, I achieved my correction for mg to 1200 but on that very day about 7 pcs of my acros melted, the skin just melted starting from the tip, my zoas and palis are not opening up and LPS does not inflate fully. I added fresh activated carbon and changed 20% of water with fresh NSW as an attempt to reduce the stress. Today I saw more dead with about 40% of my acros dead, 30% of my Cyphastrea frags dead, my zoas and palis started to recede and LPS still same as yesterday.....all SPS dead by melted/peeling skin starting from tip....water looks a tiny weny bit milky.....So I performed another water change today....

in 2 days I had lost more than 60 pcs of corals all cherry picks corals!!!!

WHAT HAPPENED???? Please help me!!!!!:headwallblue::headwallblue::headwallblue:

[bertoni]

What magnesium sulfate product was dosed? Moving the SG from 1170 to 1200 ppm should be safe enough. Was anything else dosed on day 5 or day 6?

[Decadence]

Everything that you did sounds to be relatively safe, though I personally would not have moved alkalinity that quickly. Wild corals are much more sensitive to large jumps in parameters than corals kept in captivity. There is also a possibility that the death of the first few corals triggered the die-offs of the rest, perhaps through ammonia.

[uwiik]

What magnesium sulfate product was dosed? Moving the SG from 1170 to 1200 ppm should be safe enough. Was anything else dosed on day 5 or day 6?

I am using generic magnesium sulfate from chemical supplier, lots of reefers from local club been using the same supply for years without any ill effect....

A guy from a local club with awesome tank told me, He had similar experience two years ago and He concluded that it was the magnesium jump that caused all this....My magnesium was 1100 to begin with, then corrected from 1100 to 1170 on the third day, then another jump from 1170 to 1200 on the 4th day, the last jump broke everything, even the jump was small on the 4th day but the corals was still coping from 70 jump from 3rd day........ He told me that tissue peeling is a typical sign of magnesium shock....Is there any truth in this??

[Decadence]

Tissue peeling is just a symptom of RTN. Any number of different stressors can cause RTN. I have seen people make much larger jumps in magnesium with no ill effects. I have personally followed the guideline of 100ppm per day with much success.

[uwiik]

Everything that you did sounds to be relatively safe, though I personally would not have moved alkalinity that quickly. Wild corals are much more sensitive to large jumps in parameters than corals kept in captivity. There is also a possibility that the death of the first few corals triggered the die-offs of the rest, perhaps through ammonia.

A lot of mortality on the old established cultured corals too, I would also think that my corals are not exactly wild anymore, I am a boutique quality exporter with some corals being kept for months before selling, 80% of the corals in that particular system are old established corals...and they are dying now.....HELP!!!!! :headwally::headwally::headwally:

[uwiik]

Tissue peeling is just a symptom of RTN. Any number of different stressors can cause RTN. I have seen people make much larger jumps in magnesium with no ill effects. I have personally followed the guideline of 100ppm per day with much success.

I was thinking the same too, I thought I was on the safe side, but what happened these past two days really shocked me......

Basically the corals are at its peak condition in the afternoon, then add mg formula, then everything died the following morning... I am still trying to figure out the real cause....

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, even if the generic magnesium was OK in the past, its source may have changed to now include something undesirable. Or it may have been unrelated to the additions you made.

[reefwars]

Is it possible some other contaminant or a bag was mislabeled?

[uwiik]

perhaps that was the case, the store keeper told me that the magnesium sulphate is technical grade, not food grade....anyway, I am running carbon and daily 20% water change right now, I will see how it goes...

[ColtonMeng]

Technical grade is another name for industrial. It runs higher levels of both metals as well as a huge spread of pH at 5% dilute - typical spec is from 5 to 9. I'd double check the pH of your tank if you are dosing large amounts to a large setup.

I've included a CoA for mag sulfate technical from an old receiver. All vendor information / our information removed accordingly.

I'd recommend sticking to photo / food grade qualities, but I have used tech in my tanks before with no ill result.

http://s9.postimg.org/n8u6jrrzz/mag.jpg

Colton

[bertoni]

If the magnesium sulfate source is okay, those doses were small enough to be fine. I don't think it's the change in the magnesium level that are the issue. Lots of people add doses of that size without problems.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I'd avoid technical grade unless it was evaluated by someone else in a reef. Technical is about as low of a grade as is sold for most chemicals, with virtually no quality controls. In many cases, it might only be 60-80% what you want and have a lot of unknown stuff

[uwiik]

The dust had settled down today....Here is the observation:
- I tested the water yesterday by moving delicate Euphyllia divisa and Euphyllia ancora from other system, both Euphyllias bloomed immediately, so I assumed the water is at least non toxic now.
- Yesterday I separated the acroporas to two different section, one section contained the ill or dying acros and the other section contained stressed but not dying acroporas. Today all acroporas from dying section died completely but all acros in the survivor section still alive and some mille already showing short polyp extension
- Most LPS that also been shocked has started to inflate moderately today, lost about 30% LPS in the whole accident.
- I tested the water and parameters has dropped down a little with ca@390, kh@7, mg@1200, ph@7.9

Now since the dust has settled down, should I start dosing again with much much moderate dose or just let everything float by itself for another week? Or dose kalkwasser only to not let everything drop too much before start dosing 2 parts again?

This time with 2 parts formula I will only be concerned about kh and ca, not going to bother with mg dosing until I find a food grade alternative for the magnesium chloride, granted I will have hard time stabilizing my kh and ca with mg@1200 only but I am still trying to do everything on the safer side for now, am I on the right track?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd personally just dose the alk part for a bit and see how the corals respond. Then if they are OK, try the calcium part. Then if they are still OK after a few weeks, try the magnesium again.

That way you can narrow down with, if any, of the parts is a problem. :)

[uwiik]

I'd personally just dose the alk part for a bit and see how the corals respond. Then if they are OK, try the calcium part. Then if they are still OK after a few weeks, try the magnesium again.

That way you can narrow down with, if any, of the parts is a problem. :)

Sounds like a good plan, I'll post update ... Thanks for the advices

[uwiik]

I have stopped dosing kalk after my ph hit 8.6 from 7.9 over the course of few days, still dosing alk slowly and nothing else now, ph seems to linger at 8.6 for now, will see if the ph still stays at 8.6 after a few days then I might switch to unbaked sodium bicarbonate...for now still baked all the way

All corals definitely doing good again, damaged acros slowly stabilizing itself, new acros are doing fine, zoos and palis has opened up fully again...

kh stays nice at 7.7-8, calcium dropped to 380 and stays there, mg 1170 and seems to stay there too.... I will start correcting calcium after 7 days and magnesium after 14 days, if anything bad happen again I would be able to pinpoint the culprit immediately.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds like a good plan.

Good luck. :)