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primo21
08/15/2014, 08:42 AM
Looking for a way to add a top-off without using a pump or full ATO system. I have figured my rate of evaporation at ~1 gal per day. Was thinking of creating a gravity fed system the drains from a 5 gal bucket raised above my sump. I would control the drain with a gate valve set to drip matching the evaporation rate. Aside from the gate failing and draining the whole 5 gal into my sump (would not overflow since i have room in the sump to hold it) am i missing anything? Also, I will be adding kalk to the bucket at about half the full saturation point, so I am aware of the pH implications of a gate failure there as well.

Please debate the use of uniseal vs bulkhead on the bucket too. Will be using 1/2". As far as the kalk goes, is there any buildup that I would have to be worried about in any of the plumbing that would clog it up beside making sure the drain is above the sludge that forms at the bottow of the container after mixing?

thanks.

ganjero
08/15/2014, 08:55 AM
I think matching the rate would be hard, and using kalk would make things harder and give you clogging issues (you said you are aware though). The gate valve will clog rapidly even if the drain is above the sludge

Have you thought in using a floating valve instead (or in combination) of the gate valve? There are possible issues there too (kalk build up preventing the valve to close) but I think it is a more commonly used approach.

Use a bulkhead, uniseals fail more often.

IMO you can make this work but should not use kalk with this approach.

Another option for dripping the kalk would be using a medical IV pincher system (Kent marine used to sell a kit), but again matching the evaporation rate and keeping it consistent could be a challenge.

primo21
08/15/2014, 09:33 AM
Wouldnt the drip IV method clog as well then? I am trying to come up with a method not using any more electricity, by adding another pump, than I already have. i have not used kalk before and am not aware of any clogging issues. does it accumulate similarly to salt creep?

jeperry3
08/15/2014, 09:37 AM
I have used a gravity fed top-off using a float valve for a horse trough for years. I have used it with kalk and without. Never had significant problems. You do have to monitor it when using kalk. A toothbrush and pipe cleaner every couple of month and a once a year clean with vinegar did the trick. This is and 65G (80 G total volume) system.

JP

Portsie
08/15/2014, 09:41 AM
I think a uniseal is the way to go if you're installing the drain on the side of a curved bucket.

If you put the drain higher than the sludge, I don't see clogging as an issue either, as long as the impurities have a chance to settle out. You could also mix your kalk in a separate bucket and decant off the saturated water leaving the impurities in the mixing bucket.

I also see matching evaporation as an issue and agree a float valve might help.

All that being said, a pump for an ato can be very small, and the failsafes included in the kits available are totally worth it. The tunze osmolator is the best thing I ever bought for my tank.

primo21
08/15/2014, 10:26 AM
Would love the tunze except the pricetag...been adding a gal per day regularly for years by hand so i am pretty confident on the evaporation rate. are you saying getting the drip rate correct is the hardest part? love the 2 bucket idea, using one to mix and then pour off the good part into the drip bucket.

Portsie
08/15/2014, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I think getting the drip rate set correctly will be difficult. If you go this route, be sure to monitor you'll salinity frequently, as it may tend to drift slightly.

mcgyvr
08/15/2014, 10:32 AM
evaporation rates change with humidity,etc...
A method that always puts the same amount it daily does NOT work without continual monitoring/adjustment..

BUT there are "gravity ATO" methods that rely on an airtight container and both tubes right under the water (outlet below inlet in the water).. As the water level drops below the tube air is allowed in until the water rises again thus stopping air from getting in and the flow will stop.

primo21
08/15/2014, 11:55 AM
would something like a toilet fill assebly work? its just a float valve right?

d2mini
08/15/2014, 12:10 PM
I use to use an eshopps ato which was basically just a cheap float valve in my sump and it was gravity fed. They are pretty much impossible to stick in the on position which is good.

primo21
08/15/2014, 12:42 PM
the only float valve i see at home depot have a brass arm, thats probably not good right?

mcgyvr
08/15/2014, 03:45 PM
the only float valve i see at home depot have a brass arm, thats probably not good right?

NO brass as it contains copper.

You can use something like this..
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reverse-osmosis-float-valve-1.html

Just make sure you add it to your maintenance list.. There are enough reports of them not fully sealing all the way..
I've got one for filling my ATO container if I forget to shut off the water.. It works fine and has saved me a few times already..

phenom5
08/15/2014, 04:52 PM
Check out autotopoff.com

They have reasonably priced single and double float switches. Then you just need a reservoir and a pump.

The problem with you plan is your evaporation rate changes throughout the year. You can set up something pretty basic for relatively cheap. Personally, I'd spring for the double float switch. That combined with making sure you don't create a siphon, and you should have a reliable, cheap ATO.